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[neoism]

DAMN the ending was fucking spectacular.... My GOTD

 

[Cep]

I might be wrong, but I think most of GAF feels the same way, although that might just be the usual backlash against a popular game going for RE5.

Just continues to reinforce my opinion of gaf.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Yeah at the ending I was like "wasn't that what they wanted you to do"? Its like the writers made all these rules and explanations for the focus stuff and then frogot about them.

Anyway been playing this on the Xbox recently and yeah its kind of a downgrade.

Spoiler

Bathandelus' desire to kill Orphan was a means to an end. He wanted the death of Orphan in order to bring about the destruction of Cocoon, as the death of that many people would be felt by the Maker, who would return to the world and reorder it so the Fal'Cie would no longer be slaves to their purpose.

However it turns out the Maker was watching all this time, and changed the parties focus, which is why they change back after turning C'ieth. They were now to destroy Orphan, but Fang and Vanille were to become Ragnarok and use that power to prevent Cocoon crashing into Pulse, thereby saving all human life.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

^So in the end

Spoiler

they still didn't defy their fate. The Maker used a Deus Ex Machina as a cop out.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

^So in the end

Spoiler

they still didn't defy their fate. The Maker used a Deus Ex Machina as a cop out.

Pretty much. Although bear in mind, this is just my intepretation and some stuff is still sketchy.

Spoiler

I'm assuming that Lightning, Snow, Hope and Sazh not becoming crystals, Serah and Dajh reawakening and everybody losing their brand is meant to indicate that the Fal'Cie are no more. However why then are Fang and Vanille now crystals?

 

[Aru]

Spoiler

Bathandelus' desire to kill Orphan was a means to an end. He wanted the death of Orphan in order to bring about the destruction of Cocoon, as the death of that many people would be felt by the Maker, who would return to the world and reorder it so the Fal'Cie would no longer be slaves to their purpose.

However it turns out the Maker was watching all this time, and changed the parties focus, which is why they change back after turning C'ieth. They were now to destroy Orphan, but Fang and Vanille were to become Ragnarok and use that power to prevent Cocoon crashing into Pulse, thereby saving all human life.

Spoiler

Where in the game do they tell us about the maker changing their focus and such ?

Never heard anything like that.

Edit: Okay so it was your interpretation.

 

[Diablos]

Pretty much. Although bear in mind, this is just my intepretation and some stuff is still sketchy.

Spoiler

I'm assuming that Lightning, Snow, Hope and Sazh not becoming crystals, Serah and Dajh reawakening and everybody losing their brand is meant to indicate that the Fal'Cie are no more. However why then are Fang and Vanille now crystals?

Spoiler

Because they still became Ragnarok. The transformation was complete. They sacrified themselves to put an end to the fal'Cie's reign thus allowing everyone else to break free.

Remember, Bart/Orphan made it very clear that they were envious of human will and determination being able to influence the outcome of their focus. They as fal'Cie are purely tools of the Maker and basically have no flexibility. After all, look at the final boss -- it only is what it is because l'Cie made it so. Barthandelus WANTED to merge with Orphan but did not have the power to do so himself. l'Cie can alter the outcome if they manage to do so before their brand turns them into Cie'th. Fang and Vanille did just that. They destroyed Cocoon but were able to crystallize it in the process, thus preventing the return of the Maker and the death of all people basically.

Remember, will and determination is the driving factor behind what was at play in the ending. Lots of ending analysis says that Light/Sazh/Hope/Snow being turned into Cie'th and back only happened because of their "will". No. Orphan tricked Fang and Vanille into thinking they had become Cie'th so she would become Ragnarok and fufill her Focus as Dysley wanted. She didn't buy it, at least not enough to make a full transformation, and when she failed the rest of them reappeared.

Smoke and mirrors, as Sazh said; appearing as Cie'th was no different than the weird Serah/Dajh illusions throughout the game. All a facade.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Spoiler

Where in the game do they tell us about the maker changing their focus and such ?

Never heard anything like that.

Edit: Okay so it was your interpretation.

Regarding the spoiler.

Spoiler

It's mentioned in the Analects that unlock as you complete the Marks that during the War of Transgression, when Fang first became Ragnarok, the Maker intervened and drained Ragnarok/Fang of her power and put her into early crystal stasis.

When Lightning and co become human again, after turning into C'ieth, one of them, I think it's Sazh, mentions that their brands have changed. I can't remember what exactly lead me to believe this, but Fal'Cie brands are all the same. A different brand would indicate a focus from a different power.

So it's never explicitly stated, but that's what lead me to my conclusion.

 

[Cep]

^So in the end

Spoiler

they still didn't defy their fate. The Maker used a Deus Ex Machina as a cop out.

He is the fucking

Spoiler

maker

Not often that the term 'Deus Ex Machina' is so appropriate.

 

[Lime]

I don't think

Spoiler

the Maker played a part in saving Cocoon. The group says, before choosing to defeat Orphan, that, given they have the power to defeat Orphan, they also have the power to save Cocoon. I can't remember the full quote, but it's something along those lines. Basically they realise they can free Cocoon from the Sanctum Fal'Cie by destroying Orphan and saving Cocoon.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

He is the fucking

Spoiler

maker

Not often that the term 'Deus Ex Machina' is so appropriate.

She.

I'm interested in the Maker stuff because supposedly that's what links the FNC games together. The Goddess in FFXIII is meant to be the same one in the portrait in Versus.

 

[CruxisMana]

She.

I'm interested in the Maker stuff because supposedly that's what links the FNC games together. The Goddess in FFXIII is meant to be the same one in the portrait in Versus.

Spoiler

I get confused with all of the names. There's The Maker, The Goddess and Etro. Are they all refering to the same being?

 

[Darthdevidem01]

EDIT: How do you hide spoilerS?

 

[Cep]

She.

I'm interested in the Maker stuff because supposedly that's what links the FNC games together. The Goddess in FFXIII is meant to be the same one in the portrait in Versus.

I know, but 'goddess from the machine' does not have the same punch.

 

[CruxisMana]

EDIT: How do you hide spoilerS?

[spoiler.][/spoiler]

Take out the full stop.

 

[Darthdevidem01]

She.

I'm interested in the Maker stuff because supposedly that's what links the FNC games together. The Goddess in FFXIII is meant to be the same one in the portrait in Versus.

Dude that was my speculation I made a day ago!!

I think the two gods, Hallowed Pulse & Lindzei are fighting in the Agito XIII universe, thats why theres a massive war going on there

And yeah the woman god, whats her name, yeah Etro she;s in the Versus world.

Thats the link between the games!!

Spoiler

Maybe the gods want to go back to pulse/cocoon because of what happened there.

 

[Darthdevidem01]

[spoiler.][/spoiler]

Take out the full stop.

Thanks
____________

Ok so their focus itself from the chapter 3 was to

Spoiler

SAVE COCOON

The flash of their focus they saw at the end of chapter 2 was from the ending, so their focus had to be to save cocoon.

Later on Fang/Vanille realie if ragnarok can destroy cocoon by breaking its shell, he can save it too by becoming a new shell for cocoon.

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

Okay, how did you guys beat the Chapter 11 boss? I'm seriously tempted to just quit the game right here. Bosses with a trillion HP that cast Doom when you don't beat them in time is fucking stupid.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Just started this, and the graphics are seriously amazing... ME2 sure has some beautiful textures, but the overall aesthetic here is unparalleled for an rpg...

 

[Darthdevidem01]

Okay, how did you guys beat the Chapter 11 boss? I'm seriously tempted to just quit the game right here. Bosses with a trillion HP that cast Doom when you don't beat them in time is fucking stupid.

Grind grind grind

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

Grind grind grind

Figured as much. FFX all over again. Yay.

 

[Cep]

Figured as much. FFX all over again. Yay.

We must have played vastly different versions of Final Fantasy X.

 

[Torquill]

Spoiler

However it turns out the Maker was watching all this time, and changed the parties focus, which is why they change back after turning C'ieth. They were now to destroy Orphan, but Fang and Vanille were to become Ragnarok and use that power to prevent Cocoon crashing into Pulse, thereby saving all human life.

Spoiler

Couple things wrong with that (imho). I don't see any reason to think their focus changed. Their focus was to destroy Cocoon and they succeeded. Focus achieved, crystals obtained., brands removed (at the ed they are gone, not just "sealed" blue). Their focus was always to destroy Cocoon and by extension Orphan. Anima wants this because he's a Pulse fal'Cie and the Cocoon/Lindzei fal'Cie keep plundering their sacred land for building materials. The fact that they become Ragnarok to stop it's outright obliteration is the cunning that solves their problem; how to destroy Cocoon but spare the citizens (though presumably many still die).

From the Analytics it seems more like that it was this Goddess Etros who keep intervening in the form of cooling Fang's Ragnarok rage, providing summons, and (possibly) the one responsible for sealing the brands.

Pretty much. Although bear in mind, this is just my intepretation and some stuff is still sketchy.

Spoiler

I'm assuming that Lightning, Snow, Hope and Sazh not becoming crystals, Serah and Dajh reawakening and everybody losing their brand is meant to indicate that the Fal'Cie are no more. However why then are Fang and Vanille now crystals?

Spoiler

They lose their brands because they complete their focus. The fal'Cie that actually gave them their brands dies at the beginning of the game and the brands remained. It's not tied to that. How the timing of a crystal awakening is determined is unclear; but Vanille's "wake up" line suggests they had a role it making it so fast. Van and Fang are still crystals because it serves the ending...an element of the bitter-sweet perhaps. If you need a mythos explaination, perhaps they are maintaining the crystal cocoon /shrug

Regarding the spoiler.

Spoiler

It's mentioned in the Analects that unlock as you complete the Marks that during the War of Transgression, when Fang first became Ragnarok, the Maker intervened and drained Ragnarok/Fang of her power and put her into early crystal stasis.

When Lightning and co become human again, after turning into C'ieth, one of them, I think it's Sazh, mentions that their brands have changed. I can't remember what exactly lead me to believe this, but Fal'Cie brands are all the same. A different brand would indicate a focus from a different power.

So it's never explicitly stated, but that's what lead me to my conclusion.

Spoiler

The Maker (either just Pulse, or Pulse for Pulse fal'cie and Lindzei for Cocoon fal'Cie depending on how much you want to read into the Analects) was not responsible for ending the War of Transgression. The goddess Etros was responsible for that, stated rather explicitly. The brands have changed in that they have been sealed in the way that Fang's was. This doesn't indicate a change of focus. A sealed brand does not progress. It's more reasonable (at least in my opinion) to assume that Etros sealed the brands, like she did Fang's at the end of the first War. Gods do not brand, Fal'Cie do. It's made pretty blatent that Pulse fal'Cie brands are the black things with the spikes and Cocoon brands are the mushroom design thingie you see (Cid's battle walls, etched onto Orphans blade, etc..)

 

[Darthdevidem01]

Figured as much. FFX all over again. Yay.

Note I play like a noob usually

 

[Torquill]

Apparently they also reference

Spoiler

Etros

in the latest Versus 13 trailer.

 

[CruxisMana]

Apparently they also reference

Spoiler

Etros

in the latest Versus 13 trailer.

The painting.

 

[Darthdevidem01]

Apparently they also reference

Spoiler

Etros

in the latest Versus 13 trailer.

Theres a new trailer?

But yeah they say she is the death god in that world.

But in the XIII world she is sympathetic

So theres something fishy there

 

[Cep]

Theres a new trailer?

But yeah they say she is the death god in that world.

But in the XIII world she is sympathetic

So theres something fishy there

Why can a death god not be sympathetic?

 

[Torquill]

Theres a new trailer?

But yeah they say she is the death god in that world.

But in the XIII world she is sympathetic

So theres something fishy there

It's about a year old now. It came with Advent Children Complete. Not very interesting unless you speak Japanese. All of the new content exists as a conversation that you can get a translation of.

I read it more as the god responsible for helping others to the world beyond; which can be kinda sympathetic. Could explain why she's so "sad" apparently in 13.

 

[Darthdevidem01]

Why can a death god not be sympathetic?

Because it robs people of the best thing in the world, life.

Is the Grim Reaper sympathetic?

EDIT: Well he is in The Sims 2....but yeah! :lol

 

[Torquill]

The painting.

And perhaps even the title image.

 

[Cep]

Because it robs people of the best thing in the world, life.

Is the Grim Reaper sympathetic?

notsureifserious.jpg

 

[Darthdevidem01]

It's about a year old now. It came with Advent Children Complete. Not very interesting unless you speak Japanese. All of the new content exists as a conversation that you can get a translation of.

I read it more as the god responsible for helping others to the world beyond; which can be kinda sympathetic. Could explain why she's so "sad" apparently in 13.

hmm I guess.

But from what we saw in XIII Etro is still in the FF13 world because she is also responsible for sending eidolons to l'cie who are in trouble, so she had to have been there. But Hallowed Pulse & Lindzei definetely left the XIII world.

 

[CruxisMana]

And perhaps even the title image.

It's been so long I've forgotten what the logo looks like.

:lol

Spoiler

D:

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Spoiler

They lose their brands because they complete their focus. The fal'Cie that actually gave them their brands dies at the beginning of the game and the brands remained. It's not tied to that. How the timing of a crystal awakening is determined is unclear; but Vanille's "wake up" line suggests they had a role it making it so fast. Van and Fang are still crystals because it serves the ending...an element of the bitter-sweet perhaps. If you need a mythos explaination, perhaps they are maintaining the crystal cocoon /shrug

Spoiler

But the reward for completing a Focus is crystalstasis, not the removal of the brand. The game's pretty explicit about that. Fail a Focus - C'ieth. Complete a Focus - Crystal. It's part of the stigma of being a L'Cie, that you are damned if you do, damned if you don't. There's no precedent in the way the game presents L'Cie to account for them becoming normal humans again and losing their brands.

 

[Blader]

Okay, how did you guys beat the Chapter 11 boss? I'm seriously tempted to just quit the game right here. Bosses with a trillion HP that cast Doom when you don't beat them in time is fucking stupid.

I don't even last long enough to see him cast Doom. =\

 

[Torquill]

hmm I guess.

But from what we saw in XIII Etro is still in the FF13 world because she is also responsible for sending eidolons to l'cie who are in trouble, so she had to have been there. But Hallowed Pulse & Lindzei definetely left the XIII world.

Spoiler

She's also in charge of the door of souls though, if I recall correctly. So maybe she get's around more .

Anyone find the Analect about the ark's true purpose interesting? That's one I can't even begin to speculate on.

 

[Darthdevidem01]

Spoiler

She's also in charge of the door of souls though, if I recall correctly. So maybe she get's around more .

Anyone find the Analect about the ark's true purpose interesting? That's one I can't even begin to speculate on.

Very good point, she might be able to.

Yeah I found that analect & thats why I think a FFXIII-2 has to made

Spoiler

Its the one where it says arks were built long before cocoon to fight against an unknown evil on the horizon right? What could be the other evil?

God damn it the mythology is so interesting, why couldn't the story be that epic!!!

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

We must have played vastly different versions of Final Fantasy X.

Alright, I'll admit I grinded in FFX just so I could kill

Spoiler

Jecht

in two moves. In this game it feels like it's forcing me to grind. This boss is ridiculous. Feels like I'm fighting a "Weapon." :/

 

[Torquill]

Very good point, she might be able to.

Yeah I found that analect & thats why I think a FFXIII-2 has to made

Spoiler

Its the one where it says arks were built long before cocoon to fight against an unknown evil on the horizon right? What could be the other evil?

God damn it the mythology is so interesting, why couldn't the story be that epic!!!

That's my major dissatisfaction. 12 got the epic but lost the characters. 13 has characters but lost the epic. Every second in Pulse I was waiting for an awesome cutscene that would provide some insight. I don't need to know every detail dammnit, but they really didn't deliver anything .

 

[Zoe]

Anyone find the Analect about the ark's true purpose interesting? That's one I can't even begin to speculate on.

I actually figured that from the dialog.

Spoiler

I say aliens.

 

[Cep]

Spoiler

Its the one where it says arks were built long before cocoon to fight against an unknown evil on the horizon right? What could be the other evil?

God damn it the mythology is so interesting, why couldn't the story be that epic!!!

Agreed, while I like FF12's lore a lot more, I feel that it is not near is coherent as FF13's.

 

[Darthdevidem01]

That's my major dissatisfaction. 12 got the epic but lost the characters. 13 has characters but lost the epic. Every second in Pulse I was waiting for an awesome cutscene that would provide some insight. I don't need to know every detail dammnit, but they really didn't deliver anything .

That sums things up kinda well except well I found XII's story a bit boring.

The story in XIII is good but they are my fav characters in the series & the whole world/mythology they have made is some of the best they have made in years but they just didn't use it properly in the main story, the main story is good but kinds disappointing when you have everything else thats so awesome!!!!! Its so frustrating to see that go to waste.

I still think FF6 got it the best, in terms of balancing, characters, epicness, story, openness/linearity

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Spoiler

perhaps they are maintaining the crystal cocoon /shrug

Spoiler

Lake Bresha doesn't change back despite the being who changed it in the first place dieing in the process of it's crystallization.

And neither do the crystal fires in a completely different area.

 

[Darthdevidem01]

Spoiler

Lake Bresha doesn't change back despite the being who changed it in the first place dieing in the process of it's crystallization.

And neither do the crystal fires in a completely different area.

Spoiler

But if they wake up wouldn't they suffocate to death in the crystal?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Agreed, while I like FF12's lore a lot more, I feel that it is not near is coherent as FF13's.

That's because FFXIII has a (kinda) defined origin story.

There is no true origin story in Ivalice because magic beings are so common that there are lots of ways the world could have came to be.

Spoiler

In one of the origins, the land is actually the body of a dead god that was shaped by the other gods into something that would sustain life.

Most of them could just be taken as myths or just fantastic explanations for all the giant magic monsters roaming around(the Wyrm and the Ring).

Spoiler

But if they wake up wouldn't they suffocate to death in the crystal?

Spoiler

Yet they were able to teleport Lightning and Co. out?

 

[Cep]

Spoiler

But if they wake up wouldn't they suffocate to death in the crystal?

Not the best time to bring laws of nature into the conversation.

That's because FFXIII has a (kinda) defined origin story.

There is no true origin story in Ivalice because magic beings are so common that there are lots of ways the world could have came to be.

Spoiler

In one of the origins, the land is actually the body of a dead god that was shaped by the other gods into something that would sustain life.

Most of them could just be taken as myths or just fantastic explanations for all the giant

Yeah, which is the reason why I like it; feels a lot more organic.

Even so, some cohesion/intergration in certain parts would have been appreciated.

 

[Zoe]

^ If you really have to shoe-horn a reason in there

Spoiler

how about they were perfectly happy with "achieving eternity" because everything they once knew is long gone?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Because it robs people of the best thing in the world, life.

Is the Grim Reaper sympathetic?

EDIT: Well he is in The Sims 2....but yeah! :lol

Death is a natural process that the lack of would lead, literally, to endless suffering.

^ If you really have to shoe-horn a reason in there

Spoiler

how about they were perfectly happy with "achieving eternity" because everything they once knew is long gone?

Spoiler

Didn't part of their character development involve letting go of the past?

Not to mention that they have friends in the present time period too now.

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

Anybody here have any good power leveling tips for someone stuck on Chapter 11 like myself? I found this spot in the Fifth Tier of the tower that has five of those Pulse Gladiator dudes that give 8k CP once defeated, but I'm having a hard time making them respawn. I'll go up the stairs and into the hallway, then walk back down and sometimes they'll be respawned, sometimes not.

Wondering if there's any other spots I should be aware of...