irfaanator
Banned
the optimal amt is 3 geirskoguls per minute. obviously like you mentioned this changes if the boss/mob makes you do mechanics that you cant otherwise ignore
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
the optimal amt is 3 geirskoguls per minute. obviously like you mentioned this changes if the boss/mob makes you do mechanics that you cant otherwise ignore
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Relax buddy no need to get all fussy. I didn't insult your family.
Those were all 2.X. I am speaking 3.X after the feedback I have heard/witnessed.
Bards were fantastic in 2.X. They had amazing utility and their DPS wasn't too far off.
If SE plans right, they will design Alexander in a way that really utilizes BRD utility. I would like nothing more for them to be useful. I just fear they will be in a bad place for a while until SE gets around to fixing them.
Avoiding the dogpile of bards, I do see what you're saying and I'm interested to see how things shake out as well in regard to bard.
I don't think that anyone can argue that with the content we currently have available to us that bard's utility is nowhere near as important as it used to be. So far.
At the same time, we don't know what a long fight looks like yet. We don't know how the MP system will hold up against the new damage output of Alex Savage. We don't really have any baseline at all for what will be good or bad about the classes.
The thing is, bards don't need to use WM. They don't need to sacrifice their movement for a marginal dps gain/loss. Their damage is just fine as it stands right now when dealing with Bismarck and Ravana extremes. I think every Ravana clear I have has had two bards in it. Heck, we farmed once with two bards and a machinist with minimal issues.
Just keep in mind that bards are gaining a 5% damage increase over 2.x bards while singing ballad/paeon, so their damage is going to actually be -better- than it used to be. I don't realistically see bard going away anytime soon. A lot of the elite groups do use bards, and just in case they don't doesn't mean that bard is a bad class.
Cool. I think that's what I'm doing. Gonna have to learn my weaves all over again though.
Comparing BRD from 2.x to 3.x in raid content with regards to preferences in raid group is odd. BRD was the most preferred DPS early in first coil for those silences in turn 1 and 2 and they were also good for feeding the adds to Caduceus.
Because of all the jumps and phase changes in second coil, BRDs and SMNs were also preferred DPS. A lot of BLMs switched to SMN for second coil.
Plus, Ballad and Paeon gave the rest of the group more resources when learning fights. They provided more tools to other jobs this time, so that Ballad and Paeon don't have to be deemed necessary.
When groups are dealing with wipes in the last 5%, switching a DPS out for higher DPS output without losing from the change in utility makes a big difference. And with legacy server characters already being 50 in most classes and characters on most servers already 50 in most classes by the time second coil came out, switching your DPS job in your static was simpler. It is different this time around with people having less time to level alt jobs before raid hits.
Worse than band wagon sports fans.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
Aren't the DPS checks in the 3.x extremes pretty low? I see no reason why any set of competent DPS couldn't hit them.
Guess I will find out in a few days when I start PFing them.
Pellegri Testament
Member
Just wondering, were you playing when some of those were current? Bard was one of the best t5 dps you could have because it was ranged (you weren't killing dreads without deaths, with a group full of melee, which were the highest at the time), had burst for conflags (if you saved cds for each), and had songs, which at the time you actually needed to use them because there wasn't any echo or gear to carry people through. T9 favored uptime on the boss, which bards excelled at over everything else, same with summoners. T13 lasted forever and required the healers to burn through mp, which required a bard until people started overgearing/echo.
There is also a huge difference in numbers between now and then. In t5/9 you could actually have bards doing respectable numbers compared to everything else, t13 was the same to an extent, even if you had to be a battery more often. Where are those respectable numbers compared to everyone else now? I've yet to see a high end ravana or bismark parse where we aren't 200+ below the lowest real dps (I am not counting MCH as real dps, it's in the same position as bard), hell we're barely above tanks and healers in high end play. There is a clear difference this time around when it comes to how bards compare to everyone else, enough of one that more and more groups will continue to look down on them when they could get something that does far more and lets them kill the boss faster, thus not requiring a bard or mch.
irfaanator
Banned
tell them to become dragoons and come to the scything and nin py's school of learning. They'll teach them right
And the DPS issue now is there but it's essentially the same as before percentage-wise. I really think most people are just completely out of touch with what the numbers actually look like.
Not really. The original post was pretty much a "will never, have never" stance.
I mean, every speedrun clear has had a BRD or MCH and both have been ~100ish from the lowest melee (~700s vs ~800s).
Realize that you were wasting 2 minutes on each attempt letting slow DPS nock arrows at the bug.
What happens when they want to be good? Where do they go for that?
Says the slower dps class.
irfaanator
Banned
They won't be good, they'll be da bess
Hey, I like bards, 11k crits are sexy as hell and I need songs for that.
Groups asked Ninjas to switch back to Monks for the Dragon Kick utility in T13 for a clear. Groups could be asking Bards to switch for 100+ more DPS for a clear before waiting for more gear upgrades for that extra DPS. Excluding/replacing the worst DPS package when combining DPS output and their group utility will always be a thing in MMOs.
Jayhawk you know about Autoturret Rook Hypercharge,right? Think of what a MCH could add to your DPS!
I am incredibly curious about the openers these guys use and, specifically on MCH, how they stagger and hold their CDs for Ravana's phasing since I swear to god he loves to jump with 2 seconds on Wildfire and I don't even know if it counts then. Numbers seem insane.
I also want to know their turret stance usage patterns. MCH in particular benefits from it played well I think, it's just the played well that is at issue.
I am incredibly curious about the openers these guys use and, specifically on MCH, how they stagger and hold their CDs for Ravana's phasing since I swear to god he loves to jump with 2 seconds on Wildfire and I don't even know if it counts then. Numbers seem insane.
I also want to know their turret stance usage patterns. MCH in particular benefits from it played well I think, it's just the played well that is at issue.
Sounds like someone is switching to SMN. glhf.
This guy.
I've been told that dots don't count while Ravana is flying around, so it would seem to me that your Wildfire may be lost to the aether. Is there enough time to drop it as he starts his Lib casts to make sure it goes off in time?
The bolded is still the issue for a lot of the pleb brds/mch [self included] I feel. Yeah, the dps isn't gonna be melee/caster numbers but it isn't like you're holding a group back.
irfaanator
Banned
pretty much. as puppy said, fotm will just change at some point and the cycle will just continue. Gotten to the old man yelling at clouds point
It's true. I hear you can join as well for a discount
I'm more worried about ASTs raid healing because of their reduced potency and DRKs for tanking if they don't adjust Living Dead for DRKs when a Hallowed Ground/Holmgang helps deal with a fight mechanic. ASTs dealing with "oh shit" situations with their reduced potency, increased spell speed ability remind me of RDMs in FFXI using chainspell for similar situations. I wonder if their potency is high enough for groups to recover.
Hell if I know. Killed him 10 times within like...36 hours of hitting MCH 60 I think? And haven't gone back since and then retired. I think a ton of Rav for Machinist is timing Wildfire on phase pushes but that seems pretty variable depending on groups.
What phase pushes? He's on all timers. Everything can be 100% timed, I can BLM him in my sleep and I just have to wake up at the end to see which random liberation he chose.
I would agree since really Wildfire is the crux of Machinist burst damage from what little I have played of it thus far (Gauss barrel get, finally). Did you hang up your pistol or your retired from the bug hunt?
I was part of a rav clear group where we never even saw that last liberation. I only recently found out that that's the random bit of the fight. And we had two bards. BLM is so overrated B-)
Or just let people complain more and more until they buff Bard to high heaven! \o/
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
People should have done that last week
My insider info says the bard patch is 7.0. Please allow more time.
Idk man, I keep getting into groups where I do more DPS than the DRG. My back hurts from the carries.
I've heard people say that the HQ Thavnairian Bustier signed by me that is up on the market board helps with back pain from carries. Why don't you try it out?
I am super into those melee helmets. Bard helmet looks potentially awful. Give bigger picture.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
You rushed to make that too, didn't you? How much are you asking?
Did you purposely try to HQ or was that an accident? Also, I'll pass, I may come knocking one day with all of the ingredients though.
I'm new too. Expecting random people to be your personal babysitter has its limits. Time is valuable to the group as a whole. It's unreasonable to expect people to march you down your own Praetorium parade when it pops. There's something like 35 minutes of cutscenes for the Praetorium.
If you're so quick to name calling and harassment over something so trivial maybe you should reconsider your place within a social game. Nobody is entitled to a perfect run of wildly outdated content.
Don't run prae. Ta-da
Gotta practice those HQ rotations on one-star gear.
Nah, I didn't rush. Rushing would have meant buying silks and buying dozens of maps. I ask for MB price. I can give a 10% GAF discount.
Alexander normal isn't even out and Angary already retiring jobs? If only I could retire on certain crafting classes, but my mail box keeps being spammed with requests.
irfaanator
Banned
the whole point of duty finder is to allow ppl to do the content. The rewards are there for ppl to help, not to be taken advantage of. If you dont want to do prae dont queue for main scenariou roulette. It's as easy as that. I don't understand your problem with people doing content/viewing cutscenes the way it was meant.
I think your issue is that you are misunderstanding the whole point of the roulette system for main scenario or in general
PhillipCostigan
Member
I'm not saying Bards aren't undertuned or that they didn't fuck up the playstyle of the class.
What I'm disputing is anyone who says that you can't clear current content with BRDs or Machinists and that DPS checks in the future won't be met if you have a BRD or MCH.
If you're not meeting DPS checks in any current content the issue is not the class but the people piloting them. Those people are 100%, indisputably bad. Bad bad bad bad bad.
And that's fine! I was hot garbage too. Like, 150 DPS MNK on Ramuh EX bad. I remember people ran with me for like 4 or 5 hours to clear Ramuh EX. I was (maybe still am) hot garbage. But instead of blaming anyone else I got better to the point where I'm comfortable with the level I'm at right now, but still know I can get better.
People who can't clear DPS checks and then blame class balance without looking at their own numbers and what they could do first make me sad, because they can always do better.
What I'm disputing is anyone who says that you can't clear current content with BRDs or Machinists and that DPS checks in the future won't be met if you have a BRD or MCH.
If you're not meeting DPS checks in any current content the issue is not the class but the people piloting them. Those people are 100%, indisputably bad. Bad bad bad bad bad.
And that's fine! I was hot garbage too. Like, 150 DPS MNK on Ramuh EX bad. I remember people ran with me for like 4 or 5 hours to clear Ramuh EX. I was (maybe still am) hot garbage. But instead of blaming anyone else I got better to the point where I'm comfortable with the level I'm at right now, but still know I can get better.
People who can't clear DPS checks and then blame class balance without looking at their own numbers and what they could do first make me sad, because they can always do better.
Are we arguing about dungeon cutscenes again?
If I'm getting into CM/Prae through MSQ roulette I'm not waiting around for people to watch cutscenes unless the majority wants to, because then I don't have a choice.
I'll wait for dungeon cutscenes because those are short enough,
It has a Bismark horn!
If I'm getting into CM/Prae through MSQ roulette I'm not waiting around for people to watch cutscenes unless the majority wants to, because then I don't have a choice.
I'll wait for dungeon cutscenes because those are short enough,
It has a Bismark horn!
Pretty much. Reminds me of when people refused to take Warriors, or Monks or Summoners back in first coil. And well... look where we are now.
Spiritreaver
Member
Is there even a reason to run main scenario roulette?
PhillipCostigan
Member
Classes will get changed. Numbers will be tweaked and classes will be balanced out. Playstyles of those classes will be fixed. Kneejerk reactions like "DPS checks in the future won't be met with a BRD or MCH" or anything similar are ridiculous.
People should stop with the doom and gloom and instead work towards getting better at the classes first before moaning about them.
People should stop with the doom and gloom and instead work towards getting better at the classes first before moaning about them.
You can get garbage experience and a pitiful amount of tomestones.
lazybones18
Banned
reposting
Let's be honest here: the majority of most DF Prae/CM groups are people queued in from roulettes looking for that six-digit XP for 15 minutes of work, myself included. If I somehow get into a group with more than 4 new people wanting cutscenes then yeah, I kind of have to wait for them, otherwise I'm speeding through that stuff because I'm just there for the roulette rewards.
It's an unfortunate scenario but it's basically either subjecting new players to long queue times or increasing the player pool and speeding DF times with roulette rewards.
311k exp at 59 from a CM. Even if it's not better exp/time than Library it's a nice break from it.
What's the likelihood of Kagari switching to Dragoon so her group can clear something with less gear and more room for error for a little bit? Similar to Bookey switching back to Monk for T13 for their first clear with that Dragon Kick. Are there already betting odds for this?
Pellegri Testament
Member
All those complaints and yet we were doing it with all of those right at the start of progression lol.