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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
I expect some goblinry from 2.2 just based on loose ends of 2.0, but if it doesn't take an "oh shit" turn by the time he's fully upright, then they dun goofed.
Whoever tried to summon Alexander 3 years ago wasn't a goblin. That'll be the crux of the "oh shit" twist, imo.
Edit: Jesus, I missed the last few pages. Let FFXI die in piece, it's a relic from a lost age.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I agree. This isn't FFXI people. Accept this and move on. If you think FFXI was such a superior game then go do that and stop shitting on those of us having a fantastic time with FFXIV.
SliceSabre
Banned
Problem is with Bahamut he's been positioned as this amazing thing since before the game was even released so there simply is no way for Alexander to compare and all the hyping and advertising for Heavensward has been on Dragoons/Dragons not Alexander.
I would like for Alexander's story to be deeper but if its just gobbies having their rave party within a primal so be it.
If you guys want to have an honest comparison between WoW's end game content and FFXIV's...
WoW end game content USED TO BE like this at launch (using Wrath of the Lich King here
End game dungeons:
WoW: 12 end-game dungeons
FFXIV: 2 end-game dungeons.
All of WoW's have versions to enter while leveling and then heroic versions at max level, which drops gear necessary to begin raiding. There are also random loot drops that FFXIV doesn't have which incentivized re-running them after you farmed your gear, something that FFXIV doesn't have after you're done farming your tomes.
End-game raids:
WoW: 1 end game raid with 15 bosses (Naxxramas),
1 end game raid against Malygos (vehicle-based, one "extra strong" boss with multiple difficulties),
1 end game raid against Sartharion (one extra strong boss with three minibosses and multiple difficulties). 10 and 25 man versions of each.
Trash mobs often as complex as dungeon bosses with chances at rare gear and loot.
FFXIV: 1 end game raid with 4 bosses.
2 EX primal fights that are currently harder than the normal end game raid.
FFXIV catches up slowly and doesn't have the huge droughts at the end of WoW patch cycles, but right out of the gate WoW threw so much at you.
Another nice thing WoW did was it attached achievements/etc to alternate ways of taking down bosses - this often required you to think about your raid setup and individual builds. Since FFXIV has nothing like builds or fluidity of how you play your class, there's less flexibility when it comes to taking down bosses. I think the closest we've ever come to this is Turn 2 of BC where you'd wait for the enrage and fight it sans mechanics.
WoW end game content USED TO BE like this at launch (using Wrath of the Lich King here
End game dungeons:
WoW: 12 end-game dungeons
FFXIV: 2 end-game dungeons.
All of WoW's have versions to enter while leveling and then heroic versions at max level, which drops gear necessary to begin raiding. There are also random loot drops that FFXIV doesn't have which incentivized re-running them after you farmed your gear, something that FFXIV doesn't have after you're done farming your tomes.
End-game raids:
WoW: 1 end game raid with 15 bosses (Naxxramas),
1 end game raid against Malygos (vehicle-based, one "extra strong" boss with multiple difficulties),
1 end game raid against Sartharion (one extra strong boss with three minibosses and multiple difficulties). 10 and 25 man versions of each.
Trash mobs often as complex as dungeon bosses with chances at rare gear and loot.
FFXIV: 1 end game raid with 4 bosses.
2 EX primal fights that are currently harder than the normal end game raid.
FFXIV catches up slowly and doesn't have the huge droughts at the end of WoW patch cycles, but right out of the gate WoW threw so much at you.
Another nice thing WoW did was it attached achievements/etc to alternate ways of taking down bosses - this often required you to think about your raid setup and individual builds. Since FFXIV has nothing like builds or fluidity of how you play your class, there's less flexibility when it comes to taking down bosses. I think the closest we've ever come to this is Turn 2 of BC where you'd wait for the enrage and fight it sans mechanics.
All of the raids this game has had were side stories. Binding coil, Crystal Tower, and now Alexander. The only reason people hold on to the binding coil as this big thing is because it was wrapping up a story from 1.0 but it is still just a side story. ARR moved on from that 1.0 story, it was over and done with when ARR launched but they wanted to take the time to wrap up a loose end.
Now, I know the next comment is "b-b-but, the calamity happened right at the end of 1.x! and then we started 2.0 right after!" except no. We started 2.0 five years later. Solving the mystery of what caused everything was a good story but it was still just a side story, the world had moved on and had/has bigger things to deal with.
This isn't an end game raid. That drops in 2 weeks.
I dunno, Bahamut was supposed to be that fucking invencible beast until (Coil spoilers)
he ended up being almost Allagans bitch.
So maybe it's the other way with Alex. He ends up fucking shit badly. (Although honestly I like gobs in a rave party lol).
I just pray that Alex isn't another Allagan device (didn't play the raid yet so I dunno anything about him). Tired of "everything was Allagan".
PhillipCostigan
Member
Are you really going to enjoy farming the same turns for multiple weeks in both normal and savage with bosses that look the same for loot though? Do you want to farm each turn 8 times with your static per week (so 32 Alex floors in all) so that everyone can get their token? And then progress through those bosses-but-harder in Savage so after all that you can (potentially, depends on the loot system/lockout) again farm those same bosses another 32 times per week to get the new gear?
I enjoy the theme of Alex and the bosses definitely have the potential to have interesting mechanics but I know I am going to be so burned out on them within a couple of weeks and then have to do a lot of the same for the harder raid.
Could you imagine if instead of FCoB you have World of Darkness Savage instead? Look at the pain that was farming WoD for drops (even if some of it was because it was a 24 man raid) and imagine how much worse it would have been if your real raid was a Savage version of WoD. No thanks.
I have no reverence for FFXI so can't agree with Tabris on the majority of his points or comparisons but I can definitely see that the burnout due to lack of variety is gonna come hard and fast with Alexander unless Savage completely changes the bosses.
And those bigger things are... gobbies? Don't get me wrong, the cutscenes were funny the first time through but the story there isn't even comparable to Coil's. It's also not like Savage is going to change the story (otherwise what's the point of separating them?) so we're going to have to wait like 6 months for 3.2's continuation of the gobbie sideshow raid? I'm not super on-board with that.
I was trying to avoid writing the equivalent of "Nothing!", but if we're separating out normal and savage, that's really no different (actually somewhat simpler) than WoW having 10/25 man versions and multiple difficulties and strategies for every boss within those.
that were also ready when the game came out but that's none of my business.jpg
I like FFXIV. But I think in comparison to the other heavyweight in the industry these are the things it needs to improve on. Or maybe it doesn't, maybe it will get by on its better graphics and... good will, or something.
I'll just address the weird leaps in logic here first. You aren't running each floor 8 times with your static per week. Because 2 tokens drop and there is a small RNG basis to it, you will actually run each turn about 6 times a week on average. This is also only for about a month because most people probably won't finish off their set once esoterics drop though maybe, you'll farm a 5th week to finish everything off if you care about vanity or if alex savage just drops upgrade items to take these ilvl 190 items to a higher level.
I don't know why you think we'd be running any alex savage turns more than once a week. That's the real raid, you get one kill per week and that's it, whatever dropped is what you get. Also, lol at thinking people will be farming alex savage week 1. Sure, the world first clears will, us plebs will be lucky if we get turn 1 and 2 down during the first week.
So to answer your question, yeah I don't think I'll get so bored that it'll hurt during the one month that I have to grind baby mode alex for a few hours each week. And once savage drops, I won't be bored because I'll be trying to progress.
Well, if you've finished Heavensward, Bahamut's real story is revealed. Much more tragic.
I don't see Alex bringing on another Umbral Era so...
Not that I've unlocked it yet and seen any context for Alexanders awakening or whatever but like, I'm not really seeing a problem if it was just Gobbies. It's not like this G Gundam Jobber ass looking summon is too good for them, hell his last main line entry he was attached that nobhead Hope.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Okay guys I can solve this argument, give me a second to take out the Final Arbitrator of Good Story:
First Binding Coil FFV References: 1
First Alexander FFV References: 1, possibly 2.
Okay looks like Alexander is at least on par with Binding Coil, carry on.
First Binding Coil FFV References: 1
First Alexander FFV References: 1, possibly 2.
Okay looks like Alexander is at least on par with Binding Coil, carry on.
What part of Binding Coil and Alexander are both side stories did you not read? The bigger things are in the main story line. A side story is just that, a side story.
Edit: Also, people waited 6 months for the super interesting tale of wonder twin number 2 crying about about her loser grandpa between 2.0 and 2.2.
Comparing to WotLK is kind of sketchy. Naxxramax as a raid (including ALL of the bosses) were "remastered" from a much older version of Naxxxramas. WotLK actually got a lot of flak at launch for not having enough original content (only two new raid bosses).
Comparing to MoP or WoD at launch is probably more accurate (especially since those expansions launched with LFR, which is a big part of modern WoW raiding). In terms of amount of raid content, those comparisons would still probably be strongly in WoW's favor.
About me: I've no intention of going back to WoW and I'm level 12 in FFXIV, so I'm probably pretty neutral.
Do you anticipate there being a cinematic near the end of the MSQ or in Alexander?
I don't expect one if the story is goblins and kitty cats but Alexander cinematics are the Final Fantasy money shot.
Azzurri
Member
WoW has been out for almost 11 years, so yes it has way more content than FFXIV.
BUT if we go back and compare the first two years, WoW trumps it.
You had Molten Core, Black Wing Lair, AQ 20 and 40, Onixya Lair and NAX, and the thing WoW did that FFXIV seems to have trouble with or doesn't want to do is to keep the older raids relevant. People were running these raids up and until the first xpac and even after it because their was gear incentive for it.
FFXIV is just so linear in it's progression that it makes old raids and dungeons useless once new ones are released, unless you're leveling or glamoring and that's it.
BUT if we go back and compare the first two years, WoW trumps it.
You had Molten Core, Black Wing Lair, AQ 20 and 40, Onixya Lair and NAX, and the thing WoW did that FFXIV seems to have trouble with or doesn't want to do is to keep the older raids relevant. People were running these raids up and until the first xpac and even after it because their was gear incentive for it.
FFXIV is just so linear in it's progression that it makes old raids and dungeons useless once new ones are released, unless you're leveling or glamoring and that's it.
I don't expect a cinematic in either. If they want to budget for one though, alexander climbing out of that lake and getting the wing effect from FFIX or something else classic would be the obvious choice and people would eat that shit up.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Farming the same content 6 times per week instead of 8 if RNG blesses us. That's a huge consolation. Maybe I'll only have to do Floor 2 of Alexander Normal and kill the same wave after wave of enemies like 24 times for everyone to get their gear. Awesome. That makes me feel 10 times better.
They've also never said either way what the exact lockout rules with be for Alex Savage, all we know is that there will be tokens which doesn't give me any confidence. If it does use the lockout system which I admit is the more likely, there's still the point that the progression aspect will be progressing through the same bosses but with harder mechanics. No variety between the two raids in terms of boss and enemy design or anything.
I guess sound like a prick for saying this but I'm starting to genuinely wish Alexander was Savage-only. Or that at least there was some sort of different content to cater to the more hardcore crowd that I've somehow turned into over the past year.
lol? My entire point was that even as side stories one was far, far more interesting than the others and tied into the main story in a much better way. How can you even compare exploring this giant Allagan Coil housing/rebuilding a version of the monster that caused the Calamity and the tie-ins it had to the main story and the fact that it did continue that 1.0 storyline... how can you compare that with Goblin wars? it might sound reductive, but there's nothing remotely interesting about the Alexander side story compared to the Coil side story.
I can't believe anyone is actively opposed to more variety in endgame. Like, I get that not everyone wants to do everything or cares about everything, but the FFXIV endgame has always and continues to boil down to the casual grind fest, EX Primals, and the lockout raid. In Heavensward, we have... Casual grind fest (now with 8-man edition!) as the Alex loot system is structured specifically to encourage grind, EX Primals, and the lockout raid. Content fatigue was a huge issue with each of the prior raid tiers (well, SCoB and FCoB at least, I wasn't around before then), and if they don't add more options it'll be a problem again in a few months.
Wanting more, varied things to do doesn't mean people are shitting all over the game or the people enjoying it. It means seeing unrealized potential in the game and expressing a desire to have more to do with it.
Edit: I do think it's a bit early to believe you have to farm every gear piece from Alex Normal. If Savage drops upgrade items only, yeah you're boned, but if it drops actual gear that doesn't need the normal base you may only want some Alex Normal pieces and Esoterics in other slots.
Wanting more, varied things to do doesn't mean people are shitting all over the game or the people enjoying it. It means seeing unrealized potential in the game and expressing a desire to have more to do with it.
Edit: I do think it's a bit early to believe you have to farm every gear piece from Alex Normal. If Savage drops upgrade items only, yeah you're boned, but if it drops actual gear that doesn't need the normal base you may only want some Alex Normal pieces and Esoterics in other slots.
Modern WoW takes a very different approach, though.
Modern WoW only really has one relevant raid tier at a time. There's little reason to go back and do older raids once a new patch hits, unless it's a quick clear for achievements or alt quest progress or something. But there's little to no gear incentive, and most players won't re-run previous raids.
Vanilla WoW had a linear progression through the expansion and no "catch-up" mechanisms. So MC was still relevant at the end of Vanilla because people were still stuck there and hadn't progressed through any of the other content. But if you were in a guild making progress through AQ or Naxx, there was little incentive to go back to MC (except maybe for Legendaries, which is no longer an incentive in modern WoW).
Anyone else think that blowing through story mode Alex will take away some of the suspense of progression? When going through FCoB I tried to keep myself out of the loop so I didn't know which bosses I would be fighting until I finally made it to a new turn.
When the four missiles from the sky are wrecking you in turn 1, it doesn't matter if they are being launched from goblin tanks or a dragon's ass. The fun is in trying to beat the mechanics. I understand the coat of paint matters to some but I didn't see this level of complaint when they released Coil 2 savage. They offered more options, why would you request that they did savage only? Why ask for less in the game?
Also yes, savage is on a weekly lockout. I'm willing to uninstall and sell my account if it's not. It would be ridiculous to think otherwise.
Edit: To the other half of the post, why do boring post moogle side quests exist when they could be making more interesting Hildebrand quests? Not every side quest is born from the same place. People are going to find alexander more interesting than binding coil by the end and vice-versa. Opinions and all of that.
As a guy who genuinely really likes Alexander the summon from the Final Fantasy series, I'm down with finding out more about the primal Alexander.
Gobbies are awesome, and you should be ashamed of yourself if you think otherwise.
First Coil's story was fucking pathetic. Everyone is only remembering T12 and T13 where shit actually happened that was interesting. The coolest thing in first coil was fighting Twintania on Bahamut's hand. That was pretty awesome. There's no such spectacle currently in Alexander babby mode. That's not exactly a bad thing. The babby mode experience is pretty much just a prelude to what's going to be coming afterwards. The story and characters are way more intriguing so far in Alexander than I think they were after First Coil. But hey, it's not everyone's thing and that's fine.
Gobbies are awesome, and you should be ashamed of yourself if you think otherwise.
First Coil's story was fucking pathetic. Everyone is only remembering T12 and T13 where shit actually happened that was interesting. The coolest thing in first coil was fighting Twintania on Bahamut's hand. That was pretty awesome. There's no such spectacle currently in Alexander babby mode. That's not exactly a bad thing. The babby mode experience is pretty much just a prelude to what's going to be coming afterwards. The story and characters are way more intriguing so far in Alexander than I think they were after First Coil. But hey, it's not everyone's thing and that's fine.
Also this, people need to relax for a bit, 3.x is going to be here for awhile.
Azzurri
Member
It doesn't mean FFXIV has to follow everything modern WoW is doing, because as right now look how shitty WOW is? They continually lose millions of subs a year (and only gain them when a new x-pac is released and this is with every MMO not just WoW) and lose them 3-6 months later because there is nothing to do. WoW continually gaind subs from 2004 about 2011ish or so. And once they started doing this Linear progression that game has become so casual friendly and content deprived people have quit in droves.
FXIV is still new so it has room to grow, but if they continue this way of progression you can bet their numbers will drop due to lack of variety in end game. People are fickle and have more choice in MMO's then they have ever had. I don't see why people are against having a large variety of endgame stuff to do that is still relevant when new stuff is released and gives people incentive to actually do it because it's fun and rewarding. Not because it's the only thing there is to do.
+1. It's clear that Yoshi-P and the scenario writers wanted to move on from 1.0. Even Midgardsormr's role has dramatically changed from his 1.0 version, not to mention the scions
are all but gone sans Y'shtola, cat woman of the forever
I hope they develop Alisae more because right now her brother overshadows her in every way.
TatteredHat
Member
I'm not sure how this works, but I'm about to subscribe and I think I can still enter a recruitment code, so if anyone is interested let me know.
First one to reply wins, I guess.
First one to reply wins, I guess.
Oh my. That's damn good.
In the last picture, how do you change the ui like that? Hotbars on the right side and HP/mana bars on top of hotbars in middle?
I win? PM me.
TatteredHat
Member
Done.
If you think the rest of the Scions won't appear over the course of 3.x...
I mean, they were too chickenshit to kill off Nanamo! Mary Sue Minfilia will be back.
I mean, they were too chickenshit to kill off Nanamo! Mary Sue Minfilia will be back.
Except that she's a billion times better than her doofy failure of a wannabe giraffe brother.
"Babby" mode huh? Could you be any more condescending?
At least Alphinaud's development wasn't cruxed off foxy grandpa
She's using her own life force to see via aether because she's physically blind
Zomba13
Member
Well at least
Thancred might. Y'shtola did the teleport on both him and herself so we're gonna have to pull Thancred back from the lifestream at some point (or not, I dunno). I can imagine he will come back physically deformed in a way as he's the lady's man playboy prettyboy type so I can imagine him having to deal with coming back ugly and it messing with his confidence. I suspect the others will be fine though.
It is baby mode though. People had more difficulty with WoD on day 1 than they did with this. Don't worry, neither myself or Galen are saying it to be malicious.
Same day as savage alex, 2 weeks from yesterday.
Edit: For the gear, the relic weapon is 3.1.
Ah yeah, Im not there yet. We'll see, hope it's more tragic for the Allagans, because can't get that much worse for dragons and
Bahamut
The truth is everyone that is crying foul about "challenging" content and comparing it to ffxi are in the minority. Granted a very vocal minority. Lest we forget when a game was developed with the "hardcore" in mind it failed horribly (wildstar).
The fact is a lot of people just don't have the patience or time to do things like we did 10 years ago. I was all up in sky, dynamis and camping nms for hours and hours. The landscape has changed.
Now saying that does hard content have a place in the modern mmo? Of course. But it's not good business practice to make a ton of that content if no one will see it much less beat it.
Also absolute virtue had to be nerfed because people were PASSING OUT while trying to beat it. For 18 hours.
The fact is a lot of people just don't have the patience or time to do things like we did 10 years ago. I was all up in sky, dynamis and camping nms for hours and hours. The landscape has changed.
Now saying that does hard content have a place in the modern mmo? Of course. But it's not good business practice to make a ton of that content if no one will see it much less beat it.
Also absolute virtue had to be nerfed because people were PASSING OUT while trying to beat it. For 18 hours.
I assume the gear will not be tied to the raid, right? T_T It'll be acquired through some means like tomes or quests?
SliceSabre
Banned
Endgame Story spoilers question:
Speaking of Y'shtola am I right in figuring when she collasped the tunnel she effectively turned herself into Aether/killed herself and Queen of Kan-E-Senna pretty much revived her from death? However she lost something when that happened because the witchlady mentioned the glow from her eyes was gone...?
I can't believe it either, before Heavenwards released you know what people in my FC did. They logged in once a week did coil and logged out till next week. Clearly the formula this game is using doesn't have content/variety issues.
Personally I see the same thing happening with this expansion pack. Yes it will help that you can enter Savage more than once till you get your drop but it still won't change that Savage is going to be the only thing worth doing due to how ilvl works.
The prevailing theory (because I believe it's still unconfirmed) is that AF2 will be the goods you buy with the esoteric tomes. So the new tomestone that will have a weekly cap.
Except you can't