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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
irfaanator
Banned
we've come full circle.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Right, and I said that, but bard having the type of class it is in this game means I'd rather take two bad monks than two bad bards. There. I said it. Come at me, brd!
I meant the ff14 community, not gaf specifically.
We come full circle in this thread every month and a half. This thread is basically a groundhog's day scenario.
irfaanator
Banned
pretty much
Lanrutcon
Member
If you invent a system that automatically flags dumb things people say YOU WOULD MAKE A FREAKING FORTUNE.
Think of the applications.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Not sure what people are talking about. Who said anything dumb? People just debating two sides to how public dps numbers affect players, and the general skill level of players.
Well for this thread, we should be pretty close to set if we flag all posts that mention fracture, poison pots, DPS/parse/meters, and lalafells.
Abysmal performance isn't bard exclusive. Bard was actually traditionally the easiest class to put out "Meh, okay" numbers on--a potato bard would probably outperform a potato BLM. Not sure if this holds after expansion or not, but the damage ceiling being low was fairly balanced out by the damage floor being higher. The clock is a measure of the overall impact of the party, not just the DPS. Scy mentioned a lot of dungeon speed being on the tank, and this is completely true. Competent pulls that match the party comp make a huge difference. You pull differently for 2x melee than for double bard or bard/BLM or double SMN. If the healer is up for DPSing, taking that into account matters. The pattern and flow of the pulls is huge and directly impacts the clock.
"LOL bard" is frustrating because it's intellectually lazy. 2x bard isn't an issue. 2x bad players is, regardless of class. You can ramble all you want about other MMOs, in the here and now and how FFXIV actually works, bard AOE and bard burst are actually decently solid and double bard isn't exactly a problem in dungeons.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Getting 2 bad bards isn't much different than getting 2 bad dragoons though. Dragoons have/had the same stygma as bards, and are still largely played by terrible players, and it's not uncommon for me to see dragoons at 60 in upgraded law gear doing under 500DPS, which wasn't even considered good back in the lvl 50 cap. In the end, it's not really a class thing and very much a bad players issues.
And I don't know if there's really more bad bards than other classes now that they changed the mechanics so much, a lot of them just quit the class, especially since the bads are the most prone to reading reddit, seeing "bards are garbage" and rolling the new fotm(aka dragoons). I don't get bards much anymore and most of them I'd say are fairly decent, with a few completely trash, but not much more than other classes. If anything, Mechanics might be the class, since it's as/more complicated than the new bards, has a fairly high skill ceiling, has lower raw damage output in general and a lot of people switched to it because it's new and shiny.
Lanrutcon
Member
Ice cold.
Are you finally admitting that being a lala just makes everything worse?
I dunno, tank DPS is pretty significant. I mean, even without i180 everywhere (but with Hive weapon) I could hold through 600+ in Bismarck EX as DRK. Honestly, if anything this is one of the best examples of how big of a difference tank DPS can make.
can I be on top of both
The hilarious part is that the Bard damage floor is higher than Monk; the issue with BRD/MCH was their ceiling, really.
when did this bard = bad, dragoon = good switch happen?
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Right, I agree with all of that and said so throughout multiple posts. Half of my original post was "lol bard-esque" which I guess is the part you took issue with. I wouldn't say intellectually lazy, just a flaw in the party design for me. Having only two slots really makes these kinds of small things a bigger deal. With just one more player you can genuinely mask the others' performance. I'm not trying to do 14 vs WoW, obviously I'm playing 14 over WoW, just that it's the easiest point of comparison.
How many people in this game even know what dmg floors/ceilings are. Some players can't even find the floor.
the true underlying issue
When they buffed Piercing Talon to do 500000 potency from any position from any instance, across data centers.
There is no "small thing" to make a bigger deal, is my point. If you DF two DPS, you should be equally scared of pretty much any pairing. There are areas where the ranged physical DPS ceiling is relevant, but dungeons aren't one of them.
i just go as a smn
SMN is also top DPS now, next to DRG. You've been away way too long.
Bad players exist because the game does a pretty poor job of explaining how to play each class, really. A lot of single player FF fans and more casual players do play this game and so they won't be the ones researching rotations and the like. SE should really consider that going forward.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Monks are top spammers. Change stance spam, Meditation spam, they have it all.
That thing that flies out of dragoons at the cost of half of their TP and does so little damage it actually heals the boss.
I was pretty disappointed that they didn't buff that as a trait or something on the way to 60. It would have broken nothing and maybe actually made the ability worth using once in a blue moon.
And that's why my guildhest idea is the bees' knees!
To solve bad group dps, they should remove the limitation behind tank stance.
This allows tank to achieve 800-1k dps and carry bad dps players.
It will allow healers not to stress out in healing as well.
Add an extra potency if the tank isn't the highest enmity for OT.
It is a win-win-win situation.
And a win-win-win-win-win-win-win situation for the overall community if they buff tank dps.
People will play more tanks knowing that their dps is on par with the average DPS player while a bit below a mastered one, lowering the queue time for DF, increasing the chance of success with DPS check fight, increasing a successful run due to higher flux of skilled tanks % entering the queue, and lowering the dungeon run time.
Seriously, is there a con in giving tank a high dps buff?
This allows tank to achieve 800-1k dps and carry bad dps players.
It will allow healers not to stress out in healing as well.
Add an extra potency if the tank isn't the highest enmity for OT.
It is a win-win-win situation.
And a win-win-win-win-win-win-win situation for the overall community if they buff tank dps.
People will play more tanks knowing that their dps is on par with the average DPS player while a bit below a mastered one, lowering the queue time for DF, increasing the chance of success with DPS check fight, increasing a successful run due to higher flux of skilled tanks % entering the queue, and lowering the dungeon run time.
Seriously, is there a con in giving tank a high dps buff?
For a long time. Good DRG's and Ninja's could get pretty close at level 50 though, but MNK was awarded a bit extra for having a slightly more complex rotation.
Supposedly DRG in the melee king right now. Partly why getting it to 60 next is my next order of business. That, and to have some other class to spend LAW tomes on. <_<;;
Fights will be tuned around the fact that tanks should be putting out high dps which means that in dungeon settings now you have 3 people doing shit numbers instead of 2 ad in 8 mans, you have 6 people doing shit instead of 4.
Sometimes I wonder how much thought you put into your posts before going to town.
speedlolita
Member
Running through all the ARR content is fun, not.
At least I'm on 2.1 now, considering I'm skipping all the cutscenes I'm definitely hoping I enjoy endgame. lol
Otherwise I'll just hit up the a Golden Saucer I guess.
At least I'm on 2.1 now, considering I'm skipping all the cutscenes I'm definitely hoping I enjoy endgame. lol
Otherwise I'll just hit up the a Golden Saucer I guess.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Yeah, this is accurate.
No, fights will be tuned to be the same as of right now.
So these bad players can still be bad, but the tank dps will bring the group overall damage to average number.
There is no point in tuning fight for this tank buff if you want to increase success rate %.
If you tune for the tank dps then of course the rate will be the same or even lower since now you have 6 people to hands hold.
Spoilers they only care to increase the success rate of fights once it's no longer the new hot thing.
hhehehe
Pyros_Eien
Member
Yeah if they wanted to just make DPS easier, they'd make the mobs have less health/dps do more damage without optimal rotations, there's no need to increase tank damage. When they want content to be easier to beat, they give it Echo. Then everyone does more damage, has more health and heals for more, so it's easier.
And normal alex isn't getting Echo until 3.1 I'd say.
And normal alex isn't getting Echo until 3.1 I'd say.
Altered Juice
Member
normally that is the case, the duty finder system tries to find 1 melee and 1 range. since alexander released not enough people have been running the level 60 dungeons so that's what happened. and neverreap is pretty much a one hour dungeon cause of the bosses being invulnerable throughout the fights
It'll swing back to MCH hate in a month or so. Reddit hated MCH so MCH was sub-bard pariah during and right after launch. Eventually Reddit figured out MCH isn't the worst thing, so now it's the FotM and everyone is leveling it. Then they'll hit endgame, many not having the basic damage crossclasses, mostly underperform because it's almost kind of semi-complicated, and MCH will become the new lolDRG while Bard laughs in the shadows.
Salvage, ok. Yup next up is Alex 2.0 then maybe some Alex 3.0 followed by some Alex 3.05 to fix any terrbile typos.
Oh good I have the name and everything already.
terrbile*
Terrible?
Terabyte* dragon sounds awesome though.
I think there is a terror bile dragon or zombie dragon in FF universe...
I miss them too.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Putting all the other stuff aside, I ran Neverreap the other day in 28 minutes. I know because it was right before the daily reset so I had checked real world time. Not saying that's a world record or anything, just that the last 3 days I've run it over and over and it's never really gone over 35 mins at most. Which is still too long for an mmo trash dungeon.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I don't really agree with placing the blame on the game for a lack of tuition; the skill explanations are fairly detailed (at least in Japanese, and I realize that character limits affect how in depth they can be in other languages) and at least for the original jobs, your skills are meted out at a pace that allows you to spend more time understanding them. Bad players are rarely just not using optimal rotations, but are unobservant and slow to react in general. The concepts involved for DPS are not that esoteric, and there are the people who discover these rotations first by experimenting and researching for themselves. You can send a Law gear Dragoon who's getting out DPSed by a Machinist with NPC store-bought gear links to rotations but you can't make them think.