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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
Lanrutcon
Member
lol wtf if you need the healer to dps in a low level roulette you're absolutely awful at the game.
Wanting all four people in the dungeon to actually contribute more than the bare minimum isn't exactly a need, though.
A tank that pulls, establishes hate, and then just stands there wouldn't be encouraged to keep on keeping on because he's meeting the lowest possible standards for tanking.
It's less about caring if any individual healer DPSes for me than confusion about how you can avoid dying of sheer boredom/frustration at people pretending it's a more complex situation than "I don't wanna and you can't make me!"
A tank that pulls, establishes hate, and then just stands there wouldn't be encouraged to keep on keeping on because he's meeting the lowest possible standards for tanking.
It's less about caring if any individual healer DPSes for me than confusion about how you can avoid dying of sheer boredom/frustration at people pretending it's a more complex situation than "I don't wanna and you can't make me!"
No one needs it, blind dogs could meet the dps requirements for most of the low level dungeons, it just speeds things up hugely and is basically no effort (especially on SCH, most of the time you don't need to cast a single heal). Not sure why anyone would be so against it.
Lanrutcon
Member
Oh, sorry. Thought were posting ironically there for a second
If the DPS are doing their best and the run needs me to chip in before people die of old age, I'll admit it's time for me to break out ye old Bio and Ruin.
But expecting the healer the help speed the run along when the DPS are going '1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1'? I'd get kind of annoyed. If they wanted to slack off they should have queued as healers, damnit.
Altered Juice
Member
Flying Griffin Mount
.
ff4 Dark Knight helmet.
Kain minion
Fantasia potion.
the only thing that interest me is the dark knight helmet. hopefully they make an armor for it like they did with DRG and PLD limited edition head gear.
SliceSabre
Banned
Your argument doesn't exactly work here.
Tanks have to keep attacking to keep hate, they cannot literally stand there and do nothing and keep hate.
Healers heal, that is their contribution to the fight they CAN dps they do not have to dps. DPS deal damage. By your argument dps are lazy as hell because ALL they are doing is dealing damage and nothing else and that is a bare minimum contribution to the fight.
I have both collectors editions and yes, I do think they are worth it
so this is worth the extra $20?
The Elite
BOSS
I used that Griffin Mount for a while. That's about it. I switched back to my Company Chocobo now. The game will give you a flying mount when you need.
It's always nice to have another Fantasia potion, i guess.
The other two I never touched.
I hate to tell you how I tank, but I basically establish hate on one target the dps are attacking and then I attack another target. I literally stop attacking that target. I have also stopped attacking to talk in FC chat while tanking and not lost aggro. So yeah, you kind of can. The dirty little secret to tanking and healing is you just have to do enough to get by. As a tank I don't need massive threat on every mob in a trash pull. I just need to keep the alpha hate until it dies. Healers just need to make sure the tank's HP doesn't hit 0. You don't get bonus points for never letting hp fall below 75%.
There's a difference between DPSing and Healing, though. Healing is something you don't need to be 100% on top of. Your healing gcd isn't constantly spinning. If you are, then I think you'd agree you're doing it wrong. The main idea behind healing is efficiency. You want to heal the most amount of damage in the most efficient way possible.
As a DPS your job is to kill shit. If stuff is getting killed you're doing your job. If you're idling off on the side or AFK auto attacking a target, I'm pretty sure you'd be annoyed by that DPS. Hey, they aren't using their skills. But they're attacking, aren't they?
TL;DR a Healer who doesn't attempt to DPS when the opportunity arises is fine, but you're free to call them lazy like you would with a dps who stands there auto attacking. Bare minimum.
I'm also jaded because I've seen healers who just heal in dungeons running around and jumping around between their cast of Cure II every 10-12 seconds. It's like you're rubbing it in my face as a DPS that your job is so piss easy you barely have to do anything while I'm slamming away on buttons. Why should I try when you don't? I dunno. Maybe I'm a bit jaded by that kind of behavior.
Good god, I don't even know why I bothered buying Heavensward, I'm not gonna see any of it for months
Except that nearly all dps have abilities that contribute other things to the groups. Our PLD saved me in A4 today by giving me a Clemency before I took a third bomb while our healer focused MT for the tank buster and our other healer had died. That's just a minor example, what about BRD songs or MCH turrets.
That attitude excuses all the BRDs who never play any songs even when your MP is <500 and all the other shitty dps that don't do anything to help the others in the group.
Lanrutcon
Member
I KNOW.
Bought Heavenwards, and I haven't seen an inch of it. The main story quests just keep going.
No, once they've established a decent hate lead they can straight up get 90k'd and keep hate for a decent while (until the game kicks them, usually.) It's happened and is generally funny.
Anyone who does the minimum they can with the tools they have confuses me--if DPS have utility skills, they absolutely should be using them. Bards should sing. Ninjas should Goad. Monks should keep DK up if the fight warrants it to help healers out. Tanks should cooldown to decrease healing burden. Machinists should Rend Mind/Disable/Silence/Battery/Hypercharge as warranted.
Again, I don't hassle individual healers in dungeons because I don't care what they individually do, but I don't see how you can hold up refusing to use the DPS tools provided to healers as anything other than "I don't wanna."
Oh, sorry. Thought were posting ironically there for a second
If the DPS are doing their best and the run needs me to chip in before people die of old age, I'll admit it's time for me to break out ye old Bio and Ruin.
But expecting the healer the help speed the run along when the DPS are going '1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1'? I'd get kind of annoyed. If they wanted to slack off they should have queued as healers, damnit.
Somebody's gotta. You're not doing it for them, you're doing it for yourself.
True, but DK is a part of monk's standard rotation, if they're not keeping it up they're not doing it right. INT down is just a bonus.
Also, "healers heal" holds so little water it's kind of a joke among seasoned players. Yeah, healers do heal as their primary job, but you very rarely have to continiously healbomb a target, definitely not in any non-raid content, so what are you gonna do, stand there and wait until tank's health falls to 90% to cast one Cure and go back to not doing anything? Why?
Lanrutcon
Member
Would this be a bad time to mention I also play a Bard and don't play songs until people start shouting at me?
Interferes with my dps, it does!
HylianScribe
Member
Doing this as a healer in the current set of relevant dungeons has lead to near dead or dead tanks I must admit. Especially on AST. Though in a Vault run recently, even spamming Benefic II was just barely keeping this DRK alive, and breaking from spamming it might have meant his death. I can only assume a combination of bad gear on the tank, low dps, and poor to no CD use by the tank.
I threat hard, what can I say? Birds love it.
I mean all I have experience healing is 50 content and below, and by no means am I a great healer. I think many people can attest to that. But yeah, the newer dungeons I'm sure hit pretty hard, but the idea is that if you have downtime or whatever or the party is in good shape, throwing out a Broil/Gravity/Holy is not the worst thing in the world, I feel.
SliceSabre
Banned
Well see it is not that the healer isn't trying, it maybe simply be an easy run. I fully admit I've had runs with many a Warrior where I've barely had to do much healing except on bosses and during fights.
Either way I tend to view the healer life as such
Dungeon runs: Easy life, usually not much beside bare minimum if the group is skilled.
Bosses/Raids: Hardest job, extremely stressful if damage output and debuffs are high. i.e. Alex 4
So don't be so jaded! Don't you think healers are jealous of you during stuff like Alex 4 when all you have to do is spew damage and no care about much else?
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
That is correct so even if you don't plan to rush towards Heavensward I suggest you buy it so that your EXP gains don't go to waste.
dark_chris
Member
Just finished the main scenario and passed the last trial last night. Wow! Just wow. That was real good.
The whole final battle was epic, but what made it even more better was having the static group run with me. We hadn't run all together in weeks and it was amazing to run with all them again. =) Small things like that actually got me all giddy and excited.
Also for the post credits scene..
The whole final battle was epic, but what made it even more better was having the static group run with me. We hadn't run all together in weeks and it was amazing to run with all them again. =) Small things like that actually got me all giddy and excited.
Also for the post credits scene..
i hope the warrior of darkness looks exactly like the poster boy of the game. Completely. It seems like it might be the case.
ok thanks, btw does Heavensward have like a free 30 days gametime or something?
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
No.....
I know that A Realm Reborn did come with 30 free days but Heavensward doesn't.
Hahaha, what? Not only are you trying to dress your slacking up, but you also lack perspective on how other jobs actually play.
rofl
Lanrutcon
Member
I haven't done Alex yet, but what exactly does a DPS have to worry about that a Healer doesn't? Like, are their weird mechanics?
SliceSabre
Banned
rofl is right if you think dps have a hard job during hard content.
Course if I lack so much perspective then please explain to me why dps have oh such a hard life during hard content compared to the healer?
Different content has different demands of different roles. I am instantly suspicious of the actual frame of reference of anyone calling another role's job easy without extensive experience actually doing it. Some endgame content is a bitch to acclimate to healing, some is basically DPS final exam with explosions, some requires tanks to be really on top of things (but not, as we've covered, T12 which can mostly be tanked by Galen's ghost.)
Trying to justify doing nothing in one piece of content because your job is like, sooooooo much harder guys, in another isn't going to go over terribly well with anyone who has an idea of how multiple roles function in endgame.
This does, of course, assume that DPS is trying to do the best they can, and not just bare minimum effort to get a clear. Which may be a different frame of reference since you seem pro-minimum-effort.
Nameless
Member
Yup. I'm lvl 54, my free 30 days ends tomorrow, and I just made it to the Snowcloak dungeon. By the looks of it I have
30+
The notion that DPS do not have to worry about anything is exactly the same kind as the idea that a healer that doesn't try to fill up the downtime is good. The job of a DPS does not consist of just pressing buttons and seeing numbers pop. It's to maximize the damage output by matching the best possible rotation against the encounter and sustaining as much uptime as possible. This isn't always trivial, talking about raid level fights. Most DPS classes now have stringent timed mechanics that are required to be observed in order to do good damage. Summoner is an extreme example as they now have so many things to consider at once, playing whack-a-mole with healthbars is silly in comparison. And doing the best damage you can isn't unimportant. If you think it is, just look through any message board related to the game complaining that people can't clear phases, that people are hitting enrage, that people wipe even in 24-man raids. And when there's no danger of immediate failure, it's for some reason okay for DPS to not do their best. This is why we have 40+ minute runs of trivial dungeons, this is why Crystal Tower is so hated (even though most people who hate that place can probably confess to just AFKing in it at some point - responsibility! I like having none!). And mechanics don't discriminate. DPS who tunnel on their hotbars get punished by the game pretty consistently. Just because there isn't an immediate feedback loop as there is with healers or tanks, doesn't mean that a DPS' job is trivial and should not be something to put effort in.
And raid healing isn't hard. I was a healer main for many months. Most of the damage in this game is premeditated and comes out at the same time, every time. Healing isn't inherently harder than DPS, provided we're talking about actually doing what you're supposed to do as a DPS.
I mean, if it's so easy why does this happen?
SliceSabre
Banned
I honestly tend to be of mind that no role is harder than any other role but I will always take issue with the notion healers should be dealing damage when not healing.
But then again I'm a mana conservative, don't trust my parties and generally assume every dps is screw up waiting to happen and I must always be ready.
But then again I'm a mana conservative, don't trust my parties and generally assume every dps is screw up waiting to happen and I must always be ready.
Curry-Hakase
Member
What have you guys been doing to weave in oGCDs in between?
Lanrutcon
Member
It's odd. So what I'm hearing is:
When the tank slacks, the healers have to spam heal and res to save the day.
When the DPS slacks, the healer have to help out with dps to keep up the pace.
When the healer slacks, the party...um...dies.
#allrolesarebeautiful
I am only being a little serious
Switching to Machinist.
SliceSabre
Banned
When a tank slacks a good dps will tank, a good healer will keep them alive and the other dps will heal and dps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j81Ug55DLkQ
Yes I'm tooting my own healer horn.
irfaanator
Banned
rip
Eh, a solid tank and/or competent DPS can work around a middling to poor healer, too.
I think the key thing nobody acknowledges is that, for the most part, no role is really special. The other two roles can do things to accommodate for shortcomings in the third, and that holds for every role combination. The biggest difference with healers is that some of their buttons make bars go up, other buttons make bars go down, and for some reason only the first set of buttons counts. Nobody else really gets to write off a substantial chunk of their skills because they don't like them (I got 5 new buttons taking WHM from 50 to 60, and 2 are straight damage; I'm not ignoring 40% of my new skills.)
Play a BLM in a movement heavy fight, at endgame, while keeping your rotation up and get back to me. I can't speak to other classes, but I can guarantee you that there are instances where DPS has to work far harder than the healer to perform at a certain level.
Meh I did a KoTL a few weeks ago where the healer sucked and died almost instantly and we 3-manned it with the BLM healing.
Only during dragons phase. And debuff determines which dragon you can attack anyway.
Lanrutcon
Member
Pfft cry more. BLMs have like, 3 buttons in their rotation AND they get better looking robes than the real heroes. Jerks.
SliceSabre
Banned
How often do you see Black Mages and Summoners using Physick to help the healer out?
So rare you'd think the jobs didn't have access to it. I admit I frequently see Paladins using it and I am grateful to every single last one of them for it.