HylianScribe
Member
Did you ever do T7 before the nerfs?
Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
Did you ever do T7 before the nerfs?
To be fair I was interested in Machinist long before the bard exodus.
SaintGalgo
Member
It's not about covering people slacking, it's about doing more than the bare minimum. Seriously. This discussion is pointless. It's a simple matter of "why not". Keeping the party alive is extremely easy in most content in this game, and if you just want to do that, fine I guess. But doing that and being able to contribute to DPS while managing your MP is what makes a good healer, in my opinion.
If you've played content in this game where it was necessary to spam heal 100% of the time there's definitely something wrong.
Uh...Is this a joke? >_>
If you've played content in this game where it was necessary to spam heal 100% of the time there's definitely something wrong.
Uh...Is this a joke? >_>
A bit late to this conversation but on that SCH thing that started on the last page:
While I'll think that the healer is being lazy (which is fine. I sometimes do the bare min when I'm feeling lazy on any of my jobs. We all have our lazy days
) for not doing anything but the bare min. My problem with the "I'll go on follow" statement is that it implies 1. They are technically afk and 2. They won't be paying attention.
Leaving it to the fairy is just a bad idea. What if more people get hurt than expected (dps not dodging, tank not dodging) or the tank has weak gear meaning they will get hurt more? Not to mention iirc in Toto, you get poison during some of the bosses which can add even more healing that the fairy might not keep up with. (especially if said poison hits most of the party, 2 - 3 lots of it)
Generally when I'm doing LL dungeons on my SCH, even if I leave it to my fairy, regardless of what I'm doing (being lazy or dpsing), I'll still switch to healing if I need to because the dmg is more than the fairy can keep up with.
I've seen SCHs think they can get away with not doing anything and unless it's Sas, tam-tara or CM (so Hali and above), it usually ends badly.
While I'll think that the healer is being lazy (which is fine. I sometimes do the bare min when I'm feeling lazy on any of my jobs. We all have our lazy days
) for not doing anything but the bare min. My problem with the "I'll go on follow" statement is that it implies 1. They are technically afk and 2. They won't be paying attention.Leaving it to the fairy is just a bad idea. What if more people get hurt than expected (dps not dodging, tank not dodging) or the tank has weak gear meaning they will get hurt more? Not to mention iirc in Toto, you get poison during some of the bosses which can add even more healing that the fairy might not keep up with. (especially if said poison hits most of the party, 2 - 3 lots of it)
Generally when I'm doing LL dungeons on my SCH, even if I leave it to my fairy, regardless of what I'm doing (being lazy or dpsing), I'll still switch to healing if I need to because the dmg is more than the fairy can keep up with.
I've seen SCHs think they can get away with not doing anything and unless it's Sas, tam-tara or CM (so Hali and above), it usually ends badly.
What in the actual fuck are you talking about?
Unless the healer is in fact a potato IRL, there are remarkably few situations where blowing a GCD on Physick is the smart move. That said, I have seen it when situationally appropriate--usually that means the healer is dead and DPS is trying to keep the tank up (and even then, the Summoner should be using the first GCD to get the healer up.) but if the DPS is whipping out Physick I usually take it as a sign of personal failure. That should never have to happen.
I had no interest in Machinist until they totally broke Bard, but I totally did level it (and argue about it in FC chat!)while Reddit was still declaring it the worst job ever. I think this buys me hipster before it was cool cred.
Lanrutcon
Member
What do you mean? Healers are expected to help out on DPS when healing requirements are low, then surely DPS are expected to help out on healing when requirements are high?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I ran Fractal on a EX DR at 7 AM and had a tank and healer praising my dps 4+ times. At one point they were bow emoting me. Of course they were both Lala's so I couldn't really tell if they were bowing.
I can't see why people halfass anything in a dungeon including dps. I want to be done with that stuff as much as the next person.
I can't see why people halfass anything in a dungeon including dps. I want to be done with that stuff as much as the next person.
SliceSabre
Banned
Is there a problem with them using heal when they see the healer is in a spot of trouble or getting their face punched in by an add? Yes I know it is a weak heal comparatively speaking but that isn't to say it isn't useful in certain situations and we healers will appreciate them for it.
What do you mean? Healers are expected to help out on DPS when healing requirements are low, then surely DPS are expected to help out on healing when requirements are high?
Fun fact, DPS have self healing abilities. Don't underestimate Bloodbath and Life Surge.
We're also expected to blow defensive CD's where appropriate.
SaintGalgo
Member
What do you mean? Healers are expected to help out on DPS when healing requirements are low, then surely DPS are expected to help out on healing when requirements are high?
...no? Healers have tools to help out on DPS. DPS don't have really tools to help out on healing, except Second Wind and Life Surge I guess (which are great). A BLM/SMN Physick won't help when healing requirements are high.
And Second Wind.
I don't see much of Bloodbath though or Second Wind. I See Life Surge plenty of times by Dragoons though
Machinist actually does not.
HylianScribe
Member
... then surely DPS are expected to help out on healing when requirements are high?
Actually...there was this one time...during the "dead game" period...where this statement wasn't sarcasm but actual truth...
Lanrutcon
Member
Double standards. I insist they give BLMs a bishop stance mind buff so they can help heal.
I forgot about Second Wind! With crits it's well over 2k.
So yeah is that OK if I don't Second Wind anymore, healers? After all, that's not my role, that's your job to keep me up~...
SliceSabre
Banned
I love the Paladin that uses stoneskin or will use protect on someone we healers just revived. <3
Hipster would be actually sticking with bard when it sucks. So when(if) it's fixed you can go like "I was BRD when it wasn't cool" and look down on returning mch.
The really impressive BLMs are the ones that drop their rotation on a dime to cover healing for a healer that dies or DCs.
Lanrutcon
Member
Yeah...not exactly a tide turner.
Note to self: heal Arkeband extra unless he fucks up, then let him die while mocking him in party chat. Then apologize to the group for letting them die while typing. Then reroll dps.
empressdonna
Member
This, so much this, especially in the chrysalis.
Obviously I still try to SS/Protect on my own but having that safety net of the tank doing it themselves while you are healing up the party/them for the next hit is a godsend.
SaintGalgo
Member
Oh, you're trying to argue that healers have more responsability than dps in the game right now. Okay, then...
My point is, you should use the tools avalable to you. I've yet to experience a BLM using Physick and saving the party but apparently that's a thing?
Great DPS is the hardest thing to find for any raiding/static group from what I've noticed in every MMO.
Tanks are usually if not always the most decent and consistent player of their class. They are the basic and foundation that all stable raiding group is built on.
Healers will be next, but they can be average due to positive loop from itemization and everyone else playstyle. Contents become easier with a skilled healers though.
And this is where every group will fall apart, finding great DPS.
You can always depend on a static group to have their tanks/healers ready to go, but finding a high DPS consistency between all of the players?
It will take a while.
DPS players are usually the most skilled in term of situation awareness, CD rotation, and maximizing their DPS rotation.
That is from my POV as a tank and healer.
But a lot of people think that DPS means literally pressing buttons.
True, but the maximization and efficiency of downtime and movement are more complex than a tank/healer.
Tanks are usually if not always the most decent and consistent player of their class. They are the basic and foundation that all stable raiding group is built on.
Healers will be next, but they can be average due to positive loop from itemization and everyone else playstyle. Contents become easier with a skilled healers though.
And this is where every group will fall apart, finding great DPS.
You can always depend on a static group to have their tanks/healers ready to go, but finding a high DPS consistency between all of the players?
It will take a while.
DPS players are usually the most skilled in term of situation awareness, CD rotation, and maximizing their DPS rotation.
That is from my POV as a tank and healer.
But a lot of people think that DPS means literally pressing buttons.
True, but the maximization and efficiency of downtime and movement are more complex than a tank/healer.
Tide turner... probably not but it helps immensely depending on the situation. Easing pressure on healers who may be too busy dealing with tanks who are taking a lot of dmg for instance.
Or hell, just even a courtesy Second Wind when you on purposely decide to stay in an AoE to get more deeps off. I do this a lot since I was the one that chose to stay in easily avoidable dmg.
Seriously. Things like this make me understand the point of Ceremonies of Eternal Bonding.
I dunno, do you remember the MCH hate that first week? I spent most of 30-60 expecting to never be able to convince anybody to let me take the job into anything end game because I think conventional wisdom was pegging it hundreds of DPS below bard.
Bard will always be cool because hats, though. It's just currently no fun. I'm not sure where hipsters stand in fun.
Well this escalated so quickly!
I play SMN and help with the healing/ressurection when needed. If you have the means to do something different to help the party, of course you should use them.
I don't actually mind when the healer is just healing. It's sad when you're on Low Level Roulette and the SCH apparently doesn't even have Cleric Stance in his hotbar, but I don't get mad and start calling names.
And every role has a hard time on harder content. You can't clear Coil if your DPS doesn't meet the checks and do mechanics correctly.
I don't actually mind when the healer is just healing. It's sad when you're on Low Level Roulette and the SCH apparently doesn't even have Cleric Stance in his hotbar, but I don't get mad and start calling names.
And every role has a hard time on harder content. You can't clear Coil if your DPS doesn't meet the checks and do mechanics correctly.
Lanrutcon
Member
I think Healers and Tanks have a bit more responsbility, yeah. They are the keepers of the majority of the tools that save the day. In terms of difficulty? that's probably more related to job + fight specifics than role. I mean, Bard rotation is cake compared to SMN priority. BLM and Monk rotations are hell during movement heavy fights, but fine when they can park their asses. Etc etc.
The point is not to "do someone else's job", but to squeeze every bit of potential out of your class.
I get that some people are lazy and want to zone out while playing this game but why would you ever object to asking people to be better players?
I get that some people are lazy and want to zone out while playing this game but why would you ever object to asking people to be better players?
SliceSabre
Banned
I know the day I do the ceremony it will be to a tank main. (๑´•ω • `๑
irfaanator
Banned
everybody was interested in machinist especially when it was the agent class
InsaneZero
Member
Healing in dungeons tends to get really boring with a whole bunch of nothing to do unless the tank decides to start pulling the entire continent and/or continues wailing away in Sword Oath while the BLM is getting mauled. The mana problem is actually something that becomes less important on that front over time since there are just so many tools available now for mana conservation, and I'm saying that as a WHM. It's only when people end up dying from mistakes (either mine or theirs) that I start having mana problems.
I managed to get through my first run of A4 yesterday with a comfortable amount of MP available throughout the fight. I figure that it is my good luck, but I was also made aware of just how many CDs WHM has that can be used to avoid actually using MP.
Zomba13
Member
Pretty much this. I'm all for healers being healers first and formost and doing their job healing but c'mon. In a LLDR as in, actual, low level shit that the fairy can literally solo heal with no input from you on /follow then at least try? I mean, what else will you do? You've casted protect at the start of the run, you have Eos out, are you really going to be staring at the screen not hitting any buttons because you have "principles" and you need to catch up on Daredevil on Netflix? Though out some DoTs, do some damage, you might as well speed the run up in those cases not for the others but for yourself.
I'm kinda new to the game and have being levelling up Bard. They broke it?
Yes, it's a thing. I've healed as a black mage with Physick when the healer has died in dungeons, multiple times in fact. It takes a lot of Physick casts to keep the tank alive and it means it's all on the other DPS to do the damage but it's better than wiping. Also if my life is at critical and there is no healing incoming then I'm going to use Physick.
The level 52 job skill, Wanderer's Minuet, completely alters the way Bard plays. The bigger problem is that it does this for no real reason other than change for change's sake. There are no real mechanics or tricks to Minuet, nothing to really strategize or maximize with it. It doesn't build on the skill set you use in pre-52 bard, and in many cases runs contrary to what made a good bard in the 2.x era.
You can still functionally Bard in endgame content roughly as efficiently as a Machinist, so it's still a viable job to have I guess, but Minuet sucked the fun out of the job for me and offered nothing in return. If you actually enjoy Minuet it's probably fine? But then I think anybody who enjoys Minuet should probably MCH anyway because Gauss Barrel is just Minuet with actual thought behind it.
Devilgunman
Member
The only reason I want to level my BRD to 60 is because my retainer is also a BRD.
I wouldn't be so much salty about BRD if they didn't nerf Barrage to the ground.
I wouldn't be so much salty about BRD if they didn't nerf Barrage to the ground.
Yeah I really don't get these guys, what fun are you having by literally just standing there?
InsaneZero
Member
But that's really an unusual situation since you're compensating for another role. It's only a thing you do when somebody has really screwed up.
And healers aren't that chill since there are a lot of tanks that forget what CDs are while pulling half a dungeon. You're pretty much throwing everything you have to keep a pseudo-DPS alive.
SliceSabre
Banned
The Elite
BOSS
I think I want to role play a stuck up bored now healer.
irfaanator
Banned
you missed more coin counter fun last night kagari
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