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[Haly]

I think you should always dodge. Not because it's the best course of action but because it helps avoid becoming complacent. "The healer will take care of it" is a bad habit to develop but you can safeguard against it by keeping up discipline. Unless you're some kind of gaming god, discipline can't be turned on or off like a faucet. It's something you need to keep up through application.

Not just for AoEs. For everything, really.

 

[Wilsongt]

Pro SMN players, is Ifrit-egi still better than Garuda-egi with the recent changes? I've been using Garuda to apply Tri-Disaster + Contagion every time I enter Dreadwyrm Trance, and when I change to Ifrit to parse in boss battles I'm not seeing a big difference in DPS (I'm parsing around 680~700 in i160 on Neverreap/Fractal).

They've always been roughly the same. Garuda has the edge because you can place her and forget about her. Or, I micromanage the shit out of her during add phases to pump out damage with her AoEs.

 

[Valnen]

When did people forget that it was called a trinity because all 3 pieces were needed in top form?

I think World of Warcraft is what caused the "DPS don't matter" mindset. It's so not true in FFXIV though.

 

[iammeiam]

Hipsters hate fun and 3.0 has no cool brd hats. Yoship hates brds. Yoship = hipster.

Orthodox Tricorne of Aiming tho

Gotta keep hope alive somehow!

 

[SliceSabre]

Healers are the hottest shit around and extremely more important then everyone else. Those scrub DPS should shut up and bow down, it's not like their job is hard anyway. Or something. When did people forget that it was called a trinity because all 3 pieces were needed in top form?

Healers wear the most clothes in the expansion so of course they are the hottest shit.

 

[Wilsongt]

Healers wear the most clothes in the expansion so of course they are the hottest shit.

I don't know. My SCH is rocking some Hot Pants of Healing i got from a level 60 dungeon because all of my law is going to my SMN.

 

[Haly]

No glamouring everything into a subligar in 2015.

 

[Sorian]

I think you should always dodge. Not because it's the best course of action but because it helps avoid becoming complacent. "The healer will take care of it" is a bad habit to develop but you can safeguard against it by keeping up discipline.

As I said yesterday, if dodging is going make me lose enochian for 30 seconds and I know the hit isn't even going to drop me below half health, why would I move? The benefit to the group is greater if I keep up the buff that allows me to do greater damage.

 

[dramatis]

Can you guys see this shit

Lalafell Mafia is the slowest goddamn ship ever.

 

[Wilsongt]

No glamouring everything into a subligar in 2015.

My tank attire will always be the steel subligar from DD.

 

[docbon]

Scholars can easily output quadruple digit aoe dps with bio/bio2/miasma/miasma2/shadow flare/bane. The damage is even crazier now that bane has no target limit.

Why wouldn't you dps during pulls? wtf

This discussion saddens me.

 

[Sorian]

I think World of Warcraft is what caused the "DPS don't matter" mindset. It's so not true in FFXIV though.

Which is funny because I know DPS was important there too. Good DPS will always make a fight easier. It's just simple math at that point.

 

[SliceSabre]

I don't know. My SCH is rocking some Hot Pants of Healing i got from a level 60 dungeon because all of my law is going to my SMN.

Orthodox Robe of Healing, Halonic Priest's Alb and Ishgardian Chaplain's Alb look hot as hell to wear with those heavy hats too!

 

[Haly]

As I said yesterday, if dodging is going make me lose enochian for 30 seconds and I know the hit isn't even going to drop me below half health, why would I move? The benefit to the group is greater if I keep up the buff that allows me to do greater damage.

If you're confident enough in your institutional awareness then I'm sure you can find whatever is the best course of action for you. I was speaking in general terms towards a fictional "average playerbase".

 

[WolvenOne]

Hmm, probably about time for me to go back into Titan Extreme and get my last pony.

v_v;;-<sigh>

Anyone know how much it typically costs to have people pass on the Pony now-a-days?

 

[iammeiam]

Scholars can easily output quadruple digit aoe dps with bio/bio2/miasma/miasma2/shadow flare/bane. The damage is even crazier now that bane has no target limit.

Why wouldn't you dps during pulls? wtf

This discussion saddens me.

Last night in Fractal I ran into a cleave to do some Holy-ing. You should be proud.

It was the best.

Bane's biggest problem is it doesn't look as cool as Gravity or Holy. You need a skill where you can blow up your fairy for massive damage. A DPS Dissipation.

 

[Zomba13]

So I'm actually just not good at healing. I only heal on SCH to get levels for Acranist so I can go back to SMN and put DoTs on everything. I don't like healing as I feel it has the most responsibility in a fight (Healer > Tank > DPS) as they basically control who lives and dies. In low level stuff, where it's super easy to heal; and Eos/Selene can manage fine on their own I always DPS because why wouldn't I want things to go faster so I get exp faster? I'd only be staring at a healthbar waiting for it to drop enough that the fairy can't top it up in one cure anyway. In higher level stuff I still throw out some DoTs but I'm not good enough to heal while in cleric stance while DPSing using a controller. I'm just not good and end up tunnelling on HP bars (it's the reason I've moved the party HP bars closer tot he middle of the screen now when I heal).

I still throw out some DoTs though, I actually have all my offensive attacks as macros that do both <t> and <tt> so if I'm solo/casting on an actual mob it'll hit and if I'm targeting a player I can still throw out a DoT or Ruin easily.

Like when I'm tanking (at 60) I get hate on the group of mobs then use my DPS combo unless I see I'm about to lose hate on something. I look at healing the same way, when bars are full I throw out some damage until bars need to be full. I guess the DPS equivalent would be self heals when needed then back to DPS. On SMN I always swiftcast > res if I'm able when it's needed because the loss of DPS for that would be made up by getting the DPS back into the fight or the healer back up.

 

[Sorian]

If you're confident enough in your institutional awareness then I'm sure you can find whatever is the best course of action for you. I was speaking in general terms towards a fictional "average playerbase".

It's hard talking about this hypothetical average player base because I'm convinced a group of average FFXIV players would alternate between banging their head on a door to try and unlock it and eating glue during down time.

 

[Haly]

Headbanging glue eaters are people too. If we don't tell them to stop headbanging and eating blue, who will?

 

[Sorian]

Headbanging glue eaters are people too. If we don't tell them to stop headbanging and eating blue, who will?

I mean, I don't mind that they want to play the game that way, it's cool. I just don't want to play with them.

 

[Valor]

I think you should always dodge. Not because it's the best course of action but because it helps avoid becoming complacent. "The healer will take care of it" is a bad habit to develop but you can safeguard against it by keeping up discipline. Unless you're some kind of gaming god, discipline can't be turned on or off like a faucet. It's something you need to keep up through application.

Not just for AoEs. For everything, really.

I don't disagree with the seniment of not taking hits for the sake of taking hits, but there are plenty of times I take a hit as a dps that I know I can take and then I use Second Wind to heal myself back up. Even if I take 4k damage, my 2.7-3k Second Wind heals most of it up where my healer doesn't have to waste a GCD on me.

As DPS not named SMN/MCH you should always be willing to help out your healers by not taking unnecessary damage, like scy said. That said, there are times where you should roll the dice to land that last GCD. If you do goof up and get by stuff you shouldn't, that's why Yoship blessed The Chosen DPS with defensive cooldowns.

Which is funny because I know DPS was important there too. Good DPS will always make a fight easier. It's just simple math at that point.

I mean, not always. I don't see how the math works out, personally. You're basically saying that the more damage that happens faster the quicker the fight is done the less heals you need to do and the less danger is encountoh wait I get it now. Not to say healing isn't important, because it is, but I mean... when you have time and space you use it. When you don't you don't.

 

[IMBored]

Scholars can easily output quadruple digit aoe dps with bio/bio2/miasma/miasma2/shadow flare/bane. The damage is even crazier now that bane has no target limit.

Why wouldn't you dps during pulls? wtf

This discussion saddens me.

Yeah, but certain scholars bane so much they forget to heal >_>

 

[Wilsongt]

I gotta give props to the players in raids who take the new guy under their wing. Was in Alex4 last night and the first group I was with didn't explain shit and eventually vote abandoned. Second group was from Midgar, invited me to their TS, explained things, and we one-shot.

 

[Sorian]

I mean, not always. I don't see how the math works out, personally. You're basically saying that the more damage that happens faster the quicker the fight is done the less heals you need to do and the less danger is encountoh wait I get it now. Not to say healing isn't important, because it is, but I mean... when you have time and space you use it. When you don't you don't.

You got me, I was becoming disappointed in you when I first started reading.

 

[docbon]

Last night in Fractal I ran into a cleave to do some Holy-ing. You should be proud.

It was the best.

Bane's biggest problem is it doesn't look as cool as Gravity or Holy. You need a skill where you can blow up your fairy for massive damage. A DPS Dissipation.

Bane should just play the black cauldron cutscene when you summon Hades in FF7.

 

[Trojita]

I tried healing a Satasha once. I was healing every fucking second, to the point I was wondering how anyone even did anything else during that time. Now that I think on it, maybe I got someone with like ilvl 5 gear on?

 

[WolvenOne]

Sometimes you have to take a hit, that's what Bloodbath or Second Wind is for. That doesn't mean you, "should," take hits when you can avoid them, it's just unavoidable sometimes.

BTW, been meaning to ask. Does the Parry Stat still scale with strength, or is the amount mitigated more or less a flat percentage now?

 

[Sorian]

I tried healing a Satasha once. I was healing every fucking second, to the point I was wondering how anyone even did anything else during that time. Now that I think on it, maybe I got someone with like ilvl 5 gear on?

That had to have been it. I've healed and tanked Satasha many times and the tank only takes big damage if they are wearing paper towels.

 

[Haly]

Eos can solo heal Sastasha. Are you sure the tank wasn't wearing holiday gear.

 

[SliceSabre]

I tried healing a Satasha once. I was healing every fucking second, to the point I was wondering how anyone even did anything else during that time. Now that I think on it, maybe I got someone with like ilvl 5 gear on?

Probably under-geared tank or one who refuses to use their cooldowns which forces the healer to burn mana like a dumpster fire on every trash mob.

Like when I was leveling my AST with DRK tanks I was going OOM constantly. Help dps? Psh! I can barely keep the tank alive. Course that was more of a result of people not used to how DRK operated, that never happens now.

 

[Sorian]

Probably under-geared tank or one who refuses to use their cooldowns which forces the healer to burn mana like a dumpster fire on every trash mob.

Like when I was leveling my AST with DRK tanks I was going OOM constantly. Help dps? Psh! I can barely keep the tank alive. Course that was more of a result of people not used to how DRK operated, that never happens now.

Lol, what cooldowns? They have one useful one, maybe.

 

[Tiops]

The only times I get mad in this game is in PF parties where we specified something as a requirement for the fight and someone joins hoping he can get carried. You can't get fucking carried in T9, idiot. Unless you run to the wall and die while the rest clear it.

And even when I get mad, the worst I can do is say that the party will never clear it and vote for abandon.

Ifrit himself is outright better damage than Garuda but, no, I don't think he competes very well with Contagion'd DWT(+RS, whenever they resync) for most encounters currently. Oddly, he might be better for the trash pulls now due to Radiant Shield but Flaming Crush is worse than Aerial Slash.

There are some training dummy-esque fights that he may be an improvement on (A1, A4) but I haven't done any live tests with him on to see if it pans out.

Yeah, that's what I was guessing. No reason to change to Ifrit now, every time I enter DWT I have Tri-Disaster and Contagion up.

They've always been roughly the same. Garuda has the edge because you can place her and forget about her. Or, I micromanage the shit out of her during add phases to pump out damage with her AoEs.

Ifrit had a pretty good lead before 3.0 in fights where the pet didn't have to move all over the place. Now that we have DWT and can put extended buffed DoTs on the enemies, I'm only using Garuda.

 

[DNAbro]

So I decided to try out the free trial for a bit and I just did my first dungeon with other people and it was kind of awkward. I'm playing an archer and just did what i was doing up that point, attacking enemies. Two of the people obviously knew what they were doing and told me if i kept drawing aggro and died i would be kicked. also learned my lesson lol

Wanted to ask if there is a good guide somewhere of how I should be playing. Never played any MMOs before this. Not sure if I will stick with it but it would be nice to have.

 

[Sorian]

So I decided to try out the free trial for a bit and I just did my first dungeon with other people and it was kind of awkward. I'm playing an archer and just did what i was doing up that point, attacking enemies. Two of the people obviously knew what they were doing and told me if i kept drawing aggro and died i would be kicked. also learned my lesson lol

Wanted to ask if there is a good guide somewhere of how I should be playing. Never played any MMOs before this. Not sure if I will stick with it but it would be nice to have.

Were numbers appearing above the monsters heads while you were fighting? If they were complaining of you pulling agro, then the tank was probably numbering them, that's their way of saying kill number 1 first, then 2, etc. If no one was marking though, tell them to fuck off and tank better because your job is to do damage and you were doing just that.

 

[DNAbro]

Were numbers appearing above the monsters heads while you were fighting? If they were complaining of you pulling agro, then the tank was probably numbering them, that's their way of saying kill number 1 first, then 2, etc. If no one was marking though, tell them to fuck off and tank better because your job is to do damage and you were doing just that.

Maybe? don't recall there being numbers but I might have just not noticed it. The two who knew what they were doing weren't the tank though.

 

[Arkeband]

So I decided to try out the free trial for a bit and I just did my first dungeon with other people and it was kind of awkward. I'm playing an archer and just did what i was doing up that point, attacking enemies. Two of the people obviously knew what they were doing and told me if i kept drawing aggro and died i would be kicked. also learned my lesson lol

Wanted to ask if there is a good guide somewhere of how I should be playing. Never played any MMOs before this. Not sure if I will stick with it but it would be nice to have.

Typically you want to be attacking the tank's target. On the side of your screen there's a list of enemies you're on the threat table for, and when the green/blue icon starts to turn yellow/orange, you should just switch to another mob. If this is happening A LOT it means the tank sucks. But sometimes the tank just needs to smack it once or twice more, so don't sweat it.

However if a mob is attacking you and you're still attacking it you're making it harder for the tank to pull it off you if his provoke move is down.

This is very hotbar-MMO 101 so it's good you're learning it early. While the monster isn't after you, damage to your heart's content - until then keep an eye on the aggro meter.

 

[Haly]

Aggro is the generic MMO term for "how much does an enemy want to attack you on a scale of 0-10". In FFXIV, it's called "Enmity".

Enmity is generated by all jobs through their actions. Healers get enmity by healing, damage dealers get it by damaging, tanks generate additional enmity on top of their damage.

It's the tank's job to keep enmity off of other players, generally speaking, so they can do their jobs without worrying about being attacked.

This is FFXIV's enmity table. It should show up when you attack something

Red means the enemy is attacking you. Orange means the enemy is very close to attacking you. Yellow and green represent less and less enmity. You want to avoid making an enemy orange. If something goes orange, switch targets or stop for a moment to let it fall.

That's it really.

 

[Sorian]

Maybe? don't recall there being numbers but I might have just not noticed it. The two who knew what they were doing weren't the tank though.

Tank was most likely bad, I mean, you can grab some advice from that post above mine but this game is very easy on tanks agro-wise so there really isn't much of an excuse. Do be on the look out if the tank is marking though. Tanks have a limited tool set at lower levels so the smart ones will want you killing things in order to make their lives easier.

 

[WolvenOne]

Maybe? don't recall there being numbers but I might have just not noticed it. The two who knew what they were doing weren't the tank though.

Don't worry about it too much, new players always have a learning curve to go through, that's why they made the first few dungeons easy. Honestly threatening to kick you was kinda questionable if you ask me, as you clearly would have a Shrub Icon over your head, indicating you're new.

Sorry, kinda defensive of shrubs. D:

 

[DNAbro]

Aggro is the generic MMO term for "how much does an enemy want to attack you on a scale of 0-10". In FFXIV, it's called "Enmity".

Enmity is generated by all jobs through their actions. Healers get enmity by healing, damage dealers get it by damaging, tanks generate additional enmity on top of their damage.

It's the tank's job to keep enmity off of other players, generally speaking, so they can do their jobs without worrying about being attacked.

This is FFXIV's enmity table. It should show up when you attack something

Red means the enemy is attacking you. Orange means the enemy is very close to attacking you. Yellow and green represent less and less enmity. You want to avoid making an enemy orange. If something goes orange, switch targets or stop for a moment to let it fall.

That's it really.

ohh so that's what that means. thanks.

Don't worry about it too much, new players always have a learning curve to go through, that's why they made the first few dungeons easy. Honestly threatening to kick you was kinda questionable if you ask me, as you clearly would have a Shrub Icon over your head, indicating you're new.

Sorry, kinda defensive of shrubs. D:

yeah that was uncomfortable. they even said they disliked doing lower level stuff due to new players. was kinda weird.

 

[iammeiam]

Just to be sure because I don't see it explicitly stated: you were only attacking things the tank had already attacked, right? In dungeons you generally don't start the fight; you let the tank do that and then attack the things he's pissed off.
It's one of the bigger sticking points for people new to MMOs. Don't attack all the things, let the tank lead, etc.

 

[WolvenOne]

ohh so that's what that means. thanks.



yeah that was uncomfortable. they even said they disliked doing lower level stuff due to new players. was kinda weird.

I mean, to be fair runs are smoother when everyone is experienced, but that doesn't excuse it. If you sign up for a low level roulette there's a very real chance you'll end up in a lower level dungeon with less experienced players. If people want the bonus XP they need to accept that and act polite.

Besides, today's Shrubs are tomorrow's raiders.

 

[DNAbro]

Just to be sure because I don't see it explicitly stated: you were only attacking things the tank had already attacked, right? In dungeons you generally don't start the fight; you let the tank do that and then attack the things he's pissed off.
It's one of the bigger sticking points for people new to MMOs. Don't attack all the things, let the tank lead, etc.

yeah i learned that right at the start. I assumed we were moving forward and attacked a group of enemies first and that's when they decided to point that out.

 

[docbon]

Yeah, but certain scholars bane so much they forget to heal >_>

"TP Song"

"TP Song!"

"TP SONG!!!"

"He's not on mumble."

"God damn it."

 

[WolvenOne]

yeah i learned that right at the start. I assumed we were moving forward and attacked a group of enemies first and that's when they decided to point that out.

Ahh, let the tank initiate contact with enemies first, that way the initial enmity goes to Tanks instead of you. Simple common mistake though, don't feel bad about it.

 

[DNAbro]

Thanks guys, also is there anything i should be doing specifically as an archer?

 

[WolvenOne]

Thanks guys, also is there anything i should be doing specifically as an archer?

For low level dungeons, attack the enemies the tank is attacking and put out good numbers. I don't think there's much else to know until you get support abilities, and I honestly don't know when that happens.

Goodluck.

 

[Fanuilos]

Thanks guys, also is there anything i should be doing specifically as an archer?

If you do draw aggro run to the tank. There's nothing tanks hate more than trying to draw aggro off an enemy chasing a DPS. That's some yakety sax material.

 

[iammeiam]

Thanks guys, also is there anything i should be doing specifically as an archer?

You want to have Straight Shot buff on yourself all the time. Hit Straight Shot whenever the buff is going to time out, or if the ability 'procs' (gets a yellow outline.)
You want to have your Damage Over Time abilities (DoTs) active on whatever you're fighting pretty much all the time. Right now that's probably just Venom Bite by you'll get Wind Bite soon. You want those constantly doing damage to the monster. Early on you'll have to reapply these a ton. You can have them up on multiple monsters at once, as long as the tank is halfway competent. If not you might only want to DoT the specific current target.

Use Bloodletter and Misery's End whenever you can.

Raging Strikes and other buffs make you hit harder, so use them. BUT don't use them all right away at low levels. You'll probably take aggro because Bard burst damage is pretty strong early on.

If you have nothing else to hit, hit Heavy Shot to fill until the next time you need to DoT or Straight Shot.

It gets a little more involved later, but that's about where to start.

 

[DNAbro]

You want to have Straight Shot buff on yourself all the time. Hit Straight Shot whenever the buff is going to time out, or if the ability 'procs' (gets a yellow outline.)
You want to have your Damage Over Time abilities (DoTs) active on whatever you're fighting pretty much all the time. Right now that's probably just Venom Bite by you'll get Wind Bite soon. You want those constantly doing damage to the monster. Early on you'll have to reapply these a ton. You can have them up on multiple monsters at once, as long as the tank is halfway competent. If not you might only want to DoT the specific current target.

Use Bloodletter and Misery's End whenever you can.

Raging Strikes and other buffs make you hit harder, so use them. BUT don't use them all right away at low levels. You'll probably take aggro because Bard burst damage is pretty strong early on.

If you have nothing else to hit, hit Heavy Shot to fill until the next time you need to DoT or Straight Shot.

It gets a little more involved later, but that's about where to start.

thank again.

Not 100% I'll stick with this game when the free trial is up but it's been an interesting experience.