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[scy]

Is this where I point out quoting the one post agreeing with you and then promptly disagreeing with it is kind of weird?

I think most people who didn't unsub or didn't wait until HW was actually out lack perspective - it's like 20+ hours of bullshit you're forced to do, and you're almost by definition NOT a hardcore FF14 player if you haven't done it already. That's a lot of time to be able to do current things.

The funny part to me is that pretty much at the time most of the content was new people said the same things. That it's useless filler quests. A few of us have alts for the sake of raiding twice and we all dreaded having to do the story a second time and that wasn't even a single sitting 2.1 -> 2.55 thing. Most of that content is pretty bland, regardless of one's take on the whole story stuff.

You guys try to dismiss that shit out of hand, but imagine if you resubbed to wow and had to play 10 years worth of backlog shit, nobody would EVER. EVER. do it.

I think literally everyone, regardless of their take on the HW gating, has said this shouldn't be a thing going forward. It can sort of make sense for a single expansion but it'll become a massive barrier at any point going forward.

 

[Jeels]

Just finished heavenwards story.

Spoiler

honestly I'm a little disappointed. Finding what happened to the other scions was the carrot on the stick taking me through the story and that was never resolved. And now there's even more unresolved with Estinian becoming nidhogg...

That and I still didn't like the cop-out with Nanamo.

I hope the next patch takes us straight to the Empire...but I'm guessing it'll be Doma first.

I'm excited for Knights of the round hard mode though

 

[WolvenOne]

Yeah, for 4.0 they either need to massivly trim down story content (massive reduction of fetch quests), or they need to let people bypass large chunks of it altogether. Personally, while I'd take the former path, the developers will probably decide that it's less work to make more storylines optional.

 

[Stuart444]

Just finished heavenwards story.

Spoiler

honestly I'm a little disappointed. Finding what happened to the other scions was the carrot on the stick taking me through the story and that was never resolved. And now there's even more unresolved with Estinian becoming nidhogg...

That and I still didn't like the cop-out with Nanamo.

I hope the next patch takes us straight to the Empire...but I'm guessing it'll be Doma first.

I'm excited for Knights of the round hard mode though

The next patch will start tying up loose ends like working on

Spoiler

Finding the other Scions

. If you mean next expansion. We'll see what happens then.

Spoiler

Could be both the empire and doma in the one expac? You never know.

 

[Jeels]

The next patch will start tying up loose ends like working on

Spoiler

Finding the other Scions

. If you mean next expansion. We'll see what happens then.

Spoiler

Could be both the empire and doma in the one expac? You never know.

Ya sorry, I meant next expansion.

 

[Armaros]

Ya sorry, I meant next expansion.

Spoiler

Rumor is that the next expansion is Ala Migo

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Yeah I can't complain about there being content, we are paying for content after all. But right now I'm walking about Vesper bay looking for armor scales >_> kind of a come down after everything lol they must have new this was shit as they designed it, all the NPC keep apologising for making me do meaningless shit haha

 

[JamesAR15]

So far having a lot of fun with the game, only up to lvl 11 though so far LOL.

If anyone wants to flist me my name on Ultros is "Suiko Khaza".

 

[Zomba13]

Spoiler

Rumor is that the next expansion is Ala Migo

Ala Mhigo is the obvious expansion pack place so it will never happen.

 

[Teletraan1]

Just resubbed this week for the first time since launch, so I'm now being forced to catch up on EVERY GOD DAMN PATCH worth of questing to enjoy the new expansion I bought?

Talk about some tedious and poorly thought out shit. I don't actually mind doing new story stuff, but what I do mind is now being forced to repeatedly queue for low level dungeons and guildhests just to get through it. I seriously hope the later patch cycles in 2.0 didn't have this shit, or that Square is learning from people how poorly conceived this shit is. If I was so invested in the story that I was unwilling to play the xpac without seeing what I had missed, I wouldn't have cancelled my sub 2 years ago Square, ffs. I liked where the scenario was when I left, but now it's devolved back into "make up bullshit excuse to force you to do Qarn" just to pad out their patch cycles. THer'es no purpose

Yep. It is goofy as shit. The amount of content you have to plow through is staggering. Most of it content patch filler. If you quit before doing all the dungeons you are in for a real treat as well if you want Law/Esoterics for doing a HLDR.

I did about half the ones I need to unlock HLDR today from 9-4:30 as a DPS. Needing to play the dungeon first to be able to do the roulette almost serves no purpose at this point. For new expansion content sure, makes sense. Every single time I am just getting a HLDR group anyway. It just seems like a way to punish the lapsed player/new player by gating the speed at which they can collect gear tokens unless they invest a couple 8 hour shifts slogging through old content with little reward. Play the content so you can play the content for a reward. It is a terrible setup.

 

[Ken]

Spoiler

I don't know if we'll see Doma? If that's Japan on Eorzea, we've already kind of been given a lot of JP themed items and having the new location be JP again would be tiring?

 

[Reknoc]

Spoiler

I don't know if we'll see Doma? If that's Japan on Eorzea, we've already kind of been given a lot of JP themed items and having the new location be JP again would be tiring?

Gotta go there to be a samurai bro

 

[Ken]

Gotta go there to be a samurai bro

Spoilers the only samurai you're getting is the law fending gear

 

[scosher]

I'll reiterate my previous stance and be done with it. While they could have certainly removed some of the padding, the 2.X quests aren't that daunting, and a lot of that content is fun to go through. You'll have spent more time going from 1 to 50, and will spend more time going from 50 to 60.

Again, some padding could be removed to streamline things, but this isn't really that big a hurdle. Besides, HLDR and Trial Roulette can be good sources of Exp as you're leveling, so they're probably worth unlocking.

2.0 - 2.4 really wasn't enjoyable at all, and I'm speaking as someone who did them as each patch was released. There really wasn't much story there besides a new primal rising up, and a directive to "go take care of it warrior of light". It really isn't until 2.4 with Snowcloak and Iceheart that the story picks up steam again. There's a lot of tedious teleport, cutscene, teleport, cutscene, with very little story progression in those interim patches.

There's a reason most of the complaints about content gating Heavensward are focused on these patch story quests than the 1-50 main story quests.

I still can't believe they locked the new jobs behind this content.

 

[The Illiterati]

So what should I be doing now then?

Also just to clarify, I'm not complaining at all about not having access to HW content, I enjoy the story and I'm in no rush to get to endgame. My complaint was how thinly everything was spread (experience throttled, retreading old areas etc) immediately starting the patch content, it really feels like SE were trying to make something out of nothing - I was just wondering how long that quality lasts.

Also what should I be doing experience wise? I'm at level 54, should I just be sucking up these small amounts of quest exp through patch content? or doing an alt or what?

I was at level 52 and a half when I reached HW. I would personally quit doing roulettes and just do MSQs and side quests. You should never reach an experience wall this way, and still have side quests left over for an alt. Remember, from 2.1 to 2.5, level 50 players used to gain -zero- xp. It was only changed for us newbies. It may seem low, but entering HW at 53+ is more than enough.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

I was at level 52 and a half when I reached HW. I would personally quit doing roulettes and just do MSQs and side quests. You should never reach an experience wall this way, and still have side quests left over for an alt. Remember, from 2.1 to 2.5, level 50 players used to gain -zero- xp. It was only changed for us newbies. It may seem low, but entering HW at 53+ is more than enough.

But surely isn't not doing roulette throwing away experience?

 

[The Illiterati]

But surely isn't not doing roulette throwing away experience?

You're going to hit 60 and quit getting xp long before you finish msq while it is handing out 100k a pop. Unless you're planning to finish msq with an alt, you're wasting way more.

 

[IvorB]

Yep. It is goofy as shit. The amount of content you have to plow through is staggering. Most of it content patch filler. If you quit before doing all the dungeons you are in for a real treat as well if you want Law/Esoterics for doing a HLDR.

I did about half the ones I need to unlock HLDR today from 9-4:30 as a DPS. Needing to play the dungeon first to be able to do the roulette almost serves no purpose at this point. For new expansion content sure, makes sense. Every single time I am just getting a HLDR group anyway. It just seems like a way to punish the lapsed player/new player by gating the speed at which they can collect gear tokens unless they invest a couple 8 hour shifts slogging through old content with little reward. Play the content so you can play the content for a reward. It is a terrible setup.

I can see people complaining about the story quests but (as others have pointed out) if you have never done the dungeon before then it's not really old content to you is it?

 

[Conkerkid11]

Is this where I point out quoting the one post agreeing with you and then promptly disagreeing with it is kind of weird?



The funny part to me is that pretty much at the time most of the content was new people said the same things. That it's useless filler quests. A few of us have alts for the sake of raiding twice and we all dreaded having to do the story a second time and that wasn't even a single sitting 2.1 -> 2.55 thing. Most of that content is pretty bland, regardless of one's take on the whole story stuff.



I think literally everyone, regardless of their take on the HW gating, has said this shouldn't be a thing going forward. It can sort of make sense for a single expansion but it'll become a massive barrier at any point going forward.

Just happened to spot this post because it's at the top of a page, but... Are you guys telling me I shouldn't have unsubbed then? The game actually does get good at some point?

 

[Cmagus]

You guys try to dismiss that shit out of hand, but imagine if you resubbed to wow and had to play 10 years worth of backlog shit, nobody would EVER. EVER. do it.

I did, a little while back I started WOW with a friend and honestly I couldn't imagine just skipping huge chunks of the story id be so lost. Sure it took time but it was enjoyable enough. Really doing the 2.0 stuff isn't that bad and they've made it much easier and faster.

It doesn't make sense to skip it considering some of the Heavensward bosses use mechanics from previous bosses and mechanics in general that will help you be more accustomed to how certain fights go.

I personally found it annoying on the new jobs when they started you off at 30 and just threw a ton of shit at you for attacks and what not and it was like what does all this do. I personally enjoyed doing the lower level stuff to actually learn my class and job and honestly the way some of these MCH and DRK players have been they could use it as well because there are so many who have no idea what to do with the jobs.

 

[fedexpeon]

The next patch will start tying up loose ends like working on

Spoiler

Finding the other Scions

. If you mean next expansion. We'll see what happens then.

Spoiler

Could be both the empire and doma in the one expac? You never know.

Awesome.
MSQ will be like those hide/seek Moogle questline huh?

 

[TheYanger]

I did, a little while back I started WOW with a friend and honestly I couldn't imagine just skipping huge chunks of the story id be so lost. Sure it took time but it was enjoyable enough. Really doing the 2.0 stuff isn't that bad and they've made it much easier and faster.

It doesn't make sense to skip it considering some of the Heavensward bosses use mechanics from previous bosses and mechanics in general that will help you be more accustomed to how certain fights go.

I personally found it annoying on the new jobs when they started you off at 30 and just threw a ton of shit at you for attacks and what not and it was like what does all this do. I personally enjoyed doing the lower level stuff to actually learn my class and job and honestly the way some of these MCH and DRK players have been they could use it as well because there are so many who have no idea what to do with the jobs.

It's not that I want to skip the story, it's that I want to be able to do the GAMEPLAY of the current game with friends, I'd go back and do the story at my own pace.

You can do that in wow, you for instance didn't have to do every bit of vanilla content before being allowed to start doing BC content, and so on. VERY VERY different. There are also people (shocking I know) that give 0 shits about the story at all, it's literally a roadblock.

Did you actually read all the words I posted?

Because I basically said there's a difference between the few hours an individual patch takes and the soul-crushing tedium that is trying to do all of the few hours back-to-back-to-back. It would help if you could differentiate between people agreeing with you and people disagreeing with you.


But hey.

Read but misread then Apologies.


To extrapolate on why I think the filler is so irritating for people that don't understand, or say hey it's always got filler - there's a huge difference between filler when you're levelling 1-50 or 50-60 and when you're stuck at the 'endgame' for a levelling cycle. You need filler to give you experience and to pace the levelling process during those other periods, but once you're 'at' 50 (as everyone who did this when it was released was) it's just a waste of a player's time to force them to do it. When it gets drip fed over patches every few months it's not so bad - you're thirsty for content and even if it's slightly tedious it's not THAT bad to have something new to do. I'm no stranger to MMOs, this is pretty normal. The problem is having it all as part of a linear questline that you HAVE to do. It should all be side content that ties into the main story. You should be getting the storyline distilled to the important parts if you plow through, and get all the extra meat and potatoes if you wish it because you have nothing else to do. Having it be a roadblock to the catchup mechanism is the real problem.

Like, when you're level 48 and they throw a filler quest in, it's a nice bone not to have to fate grind. When you're 50 and the xp is negligible (and it is) it feels much more like Square just throwing barrels at you while you try to climb towards your goal.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I appreciate the side quests because they're easy sources of exp and gear, but optional if you don't feel like doing them.

I can tell a lot of people threw deuces at the moogles because I was doing aery/vault runs with people still in Garland gear...

 

[Ferr986]

Gotta be honest, I kind of like the i lvl180 gear grind more than the old 2.1 version of dungeon grinding through AK and WP.

I mean, you still have to do old dungeon grinding for the ilvl170 gear, but I like the ilvl180 upgrade method of doing hunts.
It's something that you can do it yourself alone, and involves the world map (something that got ignored all of 2.0).
A & S ranks have serious problems (lack of HP, etc) but its not needed for the upgrades.

It's also something that it doesnt give you the best gear ( the best gear its from Alexander, and I'm ok with that) but atleatst it gives you decent gear to do all of the content without the heavy grind of the same two new dungeons or the old dungeons you have been grinding for two years already.

It still needs some fine-tuning, but atleast it's an alternative of re-running old dungeons all over again.

 

[MogCakes]

I can see the complaints about the new gameplay elements being intertwined with story and thus being gated behind story checkpoints. I can also see the devs clearly don't agree that story and gameplay elements should be separate.

 

[chrono01]

Yeah, it's a giant bomb.

I know I'm a bit late in-responding, but...

UGH!

Vanity it is. Damn it. I mean, I guess it's not a robe, but it looks more suited to Bard than casters.

 

[Wagram]

I know how to fix Bard. I know how to solve every issue and make them useful.

Spoiler

Give me GP song. PLEASE.

 

[Audioboxer]

How do you challenge Gegeruju to triple triad? I'm level 34 and I've done his 3 side quests and he still just says "while I'd enjoy nothing more than a diversion....."

Thanks

 

[BlazingDarkness]

How does one even partake in triple triad? Is it HW content? Same with Golden Saucer, I have no idea how to do either haha

 

[Audioboxer]

How does one even partake in triple triad? Is it HW content? Same with Golden Saucer, I have no idea how to do either haha

There's a questline in the steps of nald where you get a ticket for free to get to the golden saucer

 

[Demoskinos]

I found this hilarious because apparently I'm still 14 or something.

 

[Jeels]

Spoiler

Rumor is that the next expansion is Ala Migo

Spoiler

I'd be fine with that since Ala Mhigo is a part of the empire now and with it being to the east it signifies the group actually making headways to the empire. It also looks like a cool place to go so

Spoiler

I don't know if we'll see Doma? If that's Japan on Eorzea, we've already kind of been given a lot of JP themed items and having the new location be JP again would be tiring?

Spoiler

I agree, even with the obvious Samurai job addition, I just don't care for far east themed locations

 

[Chille]

So I just got married on Ultros, was a beautiful wedding, some lovely people posted them on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFrie...wedding_reception_was_held_in_the_stormitory/

 

[Plywood]

Is there a list out there yet for gear beyond ilvl 140 and how to obtain them?

 

[Arkeband]

How do you challenge Gegeruju to triple triad? I'm level 34 and I've done his 3 side quests and he still just says "while I'd enjoy nothing more than a diversion....."

Thanks

A bunch of NPC's can only be challenged at certain times of the day.

 

[lazybones18]

A bunch of NPC's can only be challenged at certain times of the day.

Gegeruju can be played all day

 

[aceface]

So I just got married on Ultros, was a beautiful wedding, some lovely people posted them on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFrie...wedding_reception_was_held_in_the_stormitory/

Lalafell wedding, love it! What's your IGN?

 

[JamesAR15]

So I just got married on Ultros, was a beautiful wedding, some lovely people posted them on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFrie...wedding_reception_was_held_in_the_stormitory/

Congratulations! Looks like a really cool experience.

 

[Chille]

Lalafell wedding, love it! What's your IGN?

I am Chille Senju IGN

 

[Zomba13]

So I just got married on Ultros, was a beautiful wedding, some lovely people posted them on Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoBestFrie...wedding_reception_was_held_in_the_stormitory/

Ah cool. Is that the TBF FC? Does Pat still play? I remember him being in our FC for like a weekend and then he vanished.

 

[SliceSabre]

Isn't the biggest issue with Havensward content story locked that it is all level 50+?

Say SE said "Sure fresh players can go right into the Heavensward areas, they just won't be able to actually do jack shit while they are there and there isn't a single quest there for anyone less than 50."

Is that REALLY all that better? It would be weird to be in a massive city like that and literally have nothing to do. And no there's no way on God's earth they were going make a bunch of quests level 1-50 for those areas for fresh people.

I mean it honestly sounds like people are arguing for "I want EVERYTHING unlocked so I don't have to work for it the moment I start the game, hell leveling is tedious too can't I skip that as well?"

 

[Chille]

Ah cool. Is that the TBF FC? Does Pat still play? I remember him being in our FC for like a weekend and then he vanished.

I am not sure sorry wife invited them to the wedding

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Isn't the biggest issue with Havensward content story locked that it is all level 50+?

Say SE said "Sure fresh players can go right into the Heavensward areas, they just won't be able to actually do jack shit while they are there and there isn't a single quest there for anyone less than 50."

Is that REALLY all that better? It would be weird to be in a massive city like that and literally have nothing to do. And no there's no way on God's earth they were going make a bunch of quests level 1-50 for those areas for fresh people.

I mean it honestly sounds like people are arguing for "I want EVERYTHING unlocked so I don't have to work for it the moment I start the game, hell leveling is tedious too can't I skip that as well?"

That would be a non issue if they didn't require the previous story to be completed, to go into the new expac areas. Right now they have a flag in place for the final 2.55 quest where you need to complete it to start 3.0. All it would take is removing said flag so that anyone at 50 could start 3.0 if they have the expac on their account.

People aren't asking to just be able to see the new zones if they have the expac, they want to be able to do shit in them too. What so many people are complaining about is that no other mmo requires you to finish the previous expac worth of content to be able to progress onto the new one, yet this one does.

I'm honestly for requiring it to an extent myself, because the story is actually interesting in this and is more than just Metzen's obsession with his green Jesus character (aka WoWs story). At the same time I understand that a lot of people don't give 2 shits about the story in mmos or games in general and they should be able to play what they payed for.

 

[theSlacker]

I mean it honestly sounds like people are arguing for "I want EVERYTHING unlocked so I don't have to work for it the moment I start the game, hell leveling is tedious too can't I skip that as well?"

aka modern mmo players, and what most systems in modern mmos try their hardest to accommodate. amirite?

 

[dramatis]

How do you challenge Gegeruju to triple triad? I'm level 34 and I've done his 3 side quests and he still just says "while I'd enjoy nothing more than a diversion....."

Thanks

I think you might have to complete the basic "Triple Triad Tutorial" go around in the Gold Saucer before you can run out and challenge guys in the open. I'm not too sure about that though, still might be worth a shot.

You can actually challenge him even without doing his sidequests.

 

[Ken]

New OTP.

 

[Jeels]

I'm liking the new swimsuits, when's the festival?

 

[Demoskinos]

That would be a non issue if they didn't require the previous story to be completed, to go into the new expac areas. Right now they have a flag in place for the final 2.55 quest where you need to complete it to start 3.0. All it would take is removing said flag so that anyone at 50 could start 3.0 if they have the expac on their account.

People aren't asking to just be able to see the new zones if they have the expac, they want to be able to do shit in them too. What so many people are complaining about is that no other mmo requires you to finish the previous expac worth of content to be able to progress onto the new one, yet this one does.

I'm honestly for requiring it to an extent myself, because the story is actually interesting in this and is more than just Metzen's obsession with his green Jesus character (aka WoWs story). At the same time I understand that a lot of people don't give 2 shits about the story in mmos or games in general and they should be able to play what they payed for.

Yeah, but most other MMO's aren't also as heavily tied to the story as FFXIV. Everyone drawing comparisons over that makes no sense to me. For as many modern MMO tropes as FFXIV borrows from WoW and other games I think the place where it stands alone is that its heavily heavily tied to its story. I think anyone who buys this game and pays for it either has to realize and accept this fact or just move on to another game.

 

[BadRNG]

Yeah, but most other MMO's aren't also as heavily tied to the story as FFXIV. Everyone drawing comparisons over that makes no sense to me. For as many modern MMO tropes as FFXIV borrows from WoW and other games I think the place where it stands alone is that its heavily heavily tied to its story. I think anyone who buys this game and pays for it either has to realize and accept this fact or just move on to another game.

Which is eventually what people will do, leading to less growth and a smaller userbase. In fact there are already those who have quit, or considered quitting, over the bullshit gating in place (and I can't really blame them). There is so much more to this game than it's story, and quite a few people spend large amounts of time and money enjoying those other aspects.

"Story" is just not enough to keep a healthy MMO sub base by itself, most players will want more than that. Ask TOR how their story (which is grossly superior to this game's) helped them when players were done with it and reached cap. People want content outside of story to stick around, said content will pull in people who do not care about story. If you forsake that group you are going to have a bad time.

I don't know why this argument keeps popping back up in here (this isn't directed at you), Yoship himself has said they want to do it differently in the future. They know it's a bad idea. The only problem is they failed to do it correctly this first time around, and anyone upset over that is pretty justified. This phase is pretty important too, as the developers never do major changes without large amounts of feedback

Spoiler

bitching

, so if this is actually detering new or old players from the game, it's something that should be brought up with SE as much as possible.

Telling them to go play another game is incredibly shortsighted, and an absolute waste because (as I said before) there is a lot to like about this game outside it's story.

 

[Kenai]

Yeah, but most other MMO's aren't also as heavily tied to the story as FFXIV. Everyone drawing comparisons over that makes no sense to me. For as many modern MMO tropes as FFXIV borrows from WoW and other games I think the place where it stands alone is that its heavily heavily tied to its story. I think anyone who buys this game and pays for it either has to realize and accept this fact or just move on to another game.

well that and it technically doesn't gate you behind previous raids in the same fashion as early WoW and FF11 did at least. The only two gates are the story (boring to some but trivial to finish with time) and ilvl stuff, which can be tomes or dungeon fare or w/e. They may requre you to complete previous Alex tiers, but at least it won' be entirely different raids.

Not to throw the PS3 limitations thing around, but now that i think about it, part of the reason the launch server stability might have been so smooth is that a lot of people coming back couldn't go into the new areas right away so the zone wasn't hammered as hard. That and it is nice that lvl 1 gilsellers can't just walk into Ishguard and bombard you with tells either.

Which is eventually what people will do, leading to less growth and a smaller userbase. In fact there are already those who have quit, or considered quitting, over the bullshit gating in place (and I can't really blame them). There is so much more to this game than it's story, and quite a few people spend large amounts of time and money enjoying those other aspects.

"Story" is just not enough to keep a healthy MMO sub base by itself, most players will want more than that. Ask TOR how their story (which is grossly superior to this game's) helped them when players were done with it and reached cap. People want content outside of story to stick around, said content will pull in people who do not care about story. If you forsake that group you are going to have a bad time.

I don't know why this argument keeps popping back up in here (this isn't directed at you), Yoship himself has said they want to do it differently in the future. They know it's a bad idea. The only problem is they failed to do it correctly this first time around, and anyone upset over that is pretty justified. This phase is pretty important too, as the developers never do major changes without large amounts of feedback

Spoiler

bitching

, so if this is actually detering new or old players from the game, it's something that should be brought up with SE as much as possible.

Telling them to go play another game is incredibly shortsighted, and an absolute waste because (as I said before) there is a lot to like about this game outside it's story.

Not to nitpick, but people aren't just telling you to go play another game so much as they are telling you to play this one. The MSQ and not much else (which i agree has more filler than it should but still). Saying its objectively terrible is also a bad way to go about it because a lot of people DO like the story believe it or not and a lot don't even skip cutscenes. This is not a completely bumbling dev team, they made a paid MMO thrive after the terrible 1.0 AND in the face of so many naysayers writing off the future of sub MMOs entirely.

Besides, I also think they will do something different going forward. Two exapnsion's worth will probably be asking a bit much for new players. That being said, I would not be surprised if they used some other form of gating (for new gilsellers accounts if nothing else). may depend on Ps3 support going forward what they are willing to try.