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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark

mileS

Member
Yay first 50!! (Ninja) Not like that matters anymore with the new cap but it feels good to me! Kind of sad considering I've been playing off and on since 1.0. Still have story quests at level 46 so I'm sure I have a TON of stuff to do before I can even touch Heavensward. Looking forward to all of it though.

shout outs to the 1.0 GAF FC people that still play.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
905808_10152818611726841_864725403059618923_o.jpg


New OTP.

Are you the third wheel there in the back?
 

Demoskinos

Member
Which is eventually what people will do, leading to less growth and a smaller userbase. In fact there are already those who have quit, or considered quitting, over the bullshit gating in place (and I can't really blame them). There is so much more to this game than it's story, and quite a few people spend large amounts of time and money enjoying those other aspects.

"Story" is just not enough to keep a healthy MMO sub base by itself, most players will want more than that. Ask TOR how their story (which is grossly superior to this game's) helped them when players were done with it and reached cap. People want content outside of story to stick around, said content will pull in people who do not care about story. If you forsake that group you are going to have a bad time.

I don't know why this argument keeps popping back up in here (this isn't directed at you), Yoship himself has said they want to do it differently in the future. They know it's a bad idea. The only problem is they failed to do it correctly this first time around, and anyone upset over that is pretty justified. This phase is pretty important too, as the developers never do major changes without large amounts of feedback
bitching
, so if this is actually detering new or old players from the game, it's something that should be brought up with SE as much as possible.

Telling them to go play another game is incredibly shortsighted, and an absolute waste because (as I said before) there is a lot to like about this game outside it's story.

Well the "superiority" of TOR's story merely comes down to taste. And this game will always have a dedicated community same as XI does because a large majority of the most dedicated fans are here because of the Final Fantasy branding. Story is a big part of taking advantage of that branding. And if other people move on hey, fine but I'd rather see them make their own thing then completely give in and buckle simply because its "the norm" with other MMO's

Which is a larger problem I have with video games as a whole tbh. But that's a entirely different can o' worms as it were.
 

MogCakes

Member
There's a fine balance between growing the userbase and keeping the game's identity. The one aspect of XIV that makes it stand out from all other MMOs is the story. I get that many people just play it like MMO #2915813571 and don't give two shits about the plot, but unfortunately for that section of the userbase, the dev team has decided that integration of narrative progression and gameplay content is pivotal to the experience.

To say the gating will drive off a sizable potential number of users is a very valid point, but it is also valid to counter that segmenting the story and gameplay elements (new classes, areas, quests available without restriction or needing to know the story) destroys the sense of continuity that this game above all other MMOs has managed to achieve, and in so doing for a large number of current players invalidates the reason they play in the first place.

You can say 'options are always good! Just do the story if you like it, it'll just be optional', but that isn't the same as having the MSQs more or less be an RPG within the context of an mmo, integrated with its gameplay systems like the entries in the series before it. That's kind of the big draw of this game for people who aren't mmo vets, and it being a Final Fantasy title at that. It may be an MMO, but it's still an FF. What this argument is essentially asking for is for the biggest draw of the game (story) to be pushed to the side and become an accessory.
 

rubius01

Member

Really I the 140+ stuff is from Neverreap and the Fractual Continuum. Then you buy Law gear from Rowrena from Idyllshire. The weapons are from Bismark and Ravana EX. Also, there is a node that sells 150 gear in Helix, but your HQ 140 gear should be better. But your best bet is from http://xivdb.com/ Not really a list, but it has some info on how to obtain stuff.
 

BadRNG

Member
Not to nitpick, but people aren't just telling you to go play another game so much as they are telling you to play this one. The MSQ and not much else (which i agree has more filler than it should but still). Saying its objectively terrible is also a bad way to go about it because a lot of people DO like the story believe it or not and a lot don't even skip cutscenes. This is not a completely bumbling dev team, they made a paid MMO thrive after the terrible 1.0 AND in the face of so many naysayers writing off the future of sub MMOs entirely.

Besides, I also think they will do something different going forward. Two exapnsion's worth will probably be asking a bit much for new players. That being said, I would not be surprised if they used some other form of gating (for new gilsellers accounts if nothing else). may depend on Ps3 support going forward what they are willing to try.
The post I was quoting pretty much outright said go play another game. It's a sentiment I have seen before as well, that not caring for the game's story means the game itself is not for you - which is flatout wrong. That's the whole crux of this "issue". It's objectively terrible because it forces a specific playstyle on people to an unnecessary degree. I don't doubt there are people who like the story, hell I even like the story
parts of it
, and I've never skipped a cutscene either even if I've been terribly tempted to at times. The point is simply that, much like being able to skip a cutscene, the option should exist for people to skip past all the fluff of the 2.1-55 stuff. Even an extremely lazy option like offering a refresh/digest movie akin to the Yakuza series would work.

But yeah, as was said, Yoship has already acknowledged this set up can't work with future expansions. The only debate is whether or not they should implement changes to the current gating, and by debate I mean a bunch of people essentially saying "well if you don't like the story you can geeet out".

As to how they would implement things, they could actually do it as part of the story's framework. Upon reaching 50 and watching the credits, you can talk to the Wandering Minstrel and with the power of the echo/yoshipavatar powers replay or revisit certain key moments of the 2.1-5 saga. Basically cut out the fluff and let you see the actual story, and not the endless uniformpasserhideandseekIhateeveryoneinEorzea game of fetch quests.

Lots of stuff, this post is too big as is
Don't you already gain access to Au Ra just from having the expansion? Is that not already a huge story/game system break?

Look, no one is saying to make the entire storyline of the whole game optional, simply to expedite the brand new 50 > heavensward process. It is, in it's current state, unnecessarily long. It was designed to pad things out and give people new stuff to do at 50, and it's staggered release made the monotony of much of it's activities somewhat more bearable. Being asked to do it all back to back to back is just asking too much. It's not a case of losing the game's "identity", it's simply a case of making things easier for the user.

It's something they do at all levels of the game already to begin with, every time a new set of content comes out the previous set is made simpler as well as less time consuming to complete. Think of what it would be like if a new player at 50 had to go through the entire previous line of gear and content before they could see the new stuff the entire rest of the playerbase is currently enjoying? Grinding in AK for days for DL, and being stuck with only mythology weekly tomes until you reached high enough ilvl to unlock soldiery, and so on and so forth.

Granted, doing the entire patch series of quests wouldn't take quite as long as that, but the point here is the tedium and excessiveness of the grind. The doesn't need to be completely removed either, but it desperately needs a trimming, much like other aspects of the game saw.
 
Don't you already gain access to Au Ra just from having the expansion? Is that not already a huge story/game system break?

I'd say no since
no one cares or mentions the Au Ra at all in the story.

At first I thought there was going to be a secret village or something of Au Ra to explain their addition but after going through all the zones I didn't find anything of the sort. There's as much explaining the Au Ra as there is any other race in the game, which is to refer to the paragraph blurb on character creation. In other words, the Au Ra are not a mystery to anyone in Eorzea, so letting you make one at character select doesn't break anything story wise because no one cares upon seeing one. They are not a new or ancient race that no one knows about since no one expresses any kind of surprise upon seeing one. The only reason Yugiri is cloaked is likely because the devs didn't want to show what the new race looked like too early.
 

TheYanger

Member
well that and it technically doesn't gate you behind previous raids in the same fashion as early WoW and FF11 did at least. The only two gates are the story (boring to some but trivial to finish with time) and ilvl stuff, which can be tomes or dungeon fare or w/e. They may requre you to complete previous Alex tiers, but at least it won' be entirely different raids.

Not to throw the PS3 limitations thing around, but now that i think about it, part of the reason the launch server stability might have been so smooth is that a lot of people coming back couldn't go into the new areas right away so the zone wasn't hammered as hard. That and it is nice that lvl 1 gilsellers can't just walk into Ishguard and bombard you with tells either.



Not to nitpick, but people aren't just telling you to go play another game so much as they are telling you to play this one. The MSQ and not much else (which i agree has more filler than it should but still). Saying its objectively terrible is also a bad way to go about it because a lot of people DO like the story believe it or not and a lot don't even skip cutscenes. This is not a completely bumbling dev team, they made a paid MMO thrive after the terrible 1.0 AND in the face of so many naysayers writing off the future of sub MMOs entirely.

Besides, I also think they will do something different going forward. Two exapnsion's worth will probably be asking a bit much for new players. That being said, I would not be surprised if they used some other form of gating (for new gilsellers accounts if nothing else). may depend on Ps3 support going forward what they are willing to try.

The majority of the gameplay of the game has nothing to do with the story. I can get the story on youtube in significantly less time than it takes to play the game, so, no, it's not being told to 'play' this one. And I've actually NEVER seen an expansion gate content like this, so I'm not sure where you got that idea. If FF11 did it that was an awful idea too, but EQ didn't, wow didn't, DAoC didn't, nothing did. There might be specific quests to get into a specific raid zone or something, I don't have any problem with those. But you could absolutely do expansion content, new zones, etc in every other MMO without being saddled with the mandatory exposition of everything that came prior. In WoW they had serious attunement quests during part of one expansion (Burning Crusade) and those were lifted when the next tiers came out. You could literally roll a character tomorrow and be raiding with me in however long it takes you to level to 100 (with no artificial blocks at any point). Gearing is easy to fast track, though it takes some time, but it's also self contained per expansion.

This is an entirely nother level.
 

Zomba13

Member
I seriously don't get the whole "gating the expac behind content is bad for new players" when those new players, who start at level one (1), need to level up to 50 anyway. They can't just throw near max level characters at people like WoW apparently does plus the whole story and dungeons and class quests teach players how to play! For that alone I'm glad there is the lock. There are enough bad players at cap already that I don't want to go into a dungeon with a Scholar that doesn't know how to summon a fairy or a Paladin that doesn't know how to Flash. Plus, that 2.0-2.55 content is NEW to new players, they haven't done it before. And those saying "but they just want to play with their friends!" well their friends CAN play with them by running them through the dungeons/trials and if they don't care for the story they can skip cutscenes and story text to speed that up. Plus the increased 2.0 quest exp means even less (maybe no?) side quests cutting down on more stuff for them to skip.

The only argument I can see is a returning level 50 player who quit after 2.0 but again, in their case the patch content is new to them. They can skip all the story if they want, it's their game, but the Leviathan and Moggle Mog and Ramuh and Shiva fights are all new to them, and Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake are new. It's kinda bullshit wanting the new content but not wanting to do "new" content. "Waaah people did this stuff months ago, I want to do the stuff people did weeks ago!"

Also, yeah, it can be a lot to go through on an alt but then again this game doesn't need alts unless you want to cheat at TT tournaments or gear up two (or more) jobs running stuff with weekly lockouts.
 

Ferr986

Member
I'd say no since
no one cares or mentions the Au Ra at all in the story.

At first I thought there was going to be a secret village or something of Au Ra to explain their addition but after going through all the zones I didn't find anything of the sort. There's as much explaining the Au Ra as there is any other race in the game, which is to refer to the paragraph blurb on character creation. In other words, the Au Ra are not a mystery to anyone in Eorzea, so letting you make one at character select doesn't break anything story wise because no one cares upon seeing one. They are not a new or ancient race that no one knows about since no one expresses any kind of surprise upon seeing one. The only reason Yugiri is cloaked is likely because the devs didn't want to show what the new race looked like too early.

I remember Yugiri herself saying she hides herself for being diferent from Eorzeans (cant remember exactly her words).
 

BadRNG

Member
I'd say no since
no one cares or mentions the Au Ra at all in the story.
If you do the DRK quest they talk about this a bit, and Au Ra's definitely deal with some special racial issues (especially Ishgard). Yugiri hid her face exactly because of this, people wrongly think they are related to dragons. It's not mentioned for the player because that would be a ton of extra stuff to add in and they are lazy.

plus, that 2.0-2.55 content is NEW to new players, they haven't done it before. And those saying "but they just want to play with their friends!" well their friends CAN play with them by running them through the dungeons/trials and if they don't care for the story they can skip cutscenes and story text to speed that up. Plus the increased 2.0 quest exp means even less (maybe no?) side quests cutting down on more stuff for them to skip.

The only argument I can see is a returning level 50 player who quit after 2.0 but again, in their case the patch content is new to them. They can skip all the story if they want, it's their game, but the Leviathan and Moggle Mog and Ramuh and Shiva fights are all new to them, and Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake are new. It's kinda bullshit wanting the new content but not wanting to do "new" content. "Waaah people did this stuff months ago, I want to do the stuff people did weeks ago!"
I'll just say not all content is created equal, and running around the same handful of zones you have been running around 1-49 already as you play delivery boy forever is not the same as entirely new content. You act like the quests are short and quick tours through the story dungeons and trials, as if there isn't a metric ton of filler in between. You also continue to gain exp, which means you can reach a high enough level to learn new job skills/do new dungeons but be unable to access that stuff because of the gate. When you finally do get there you will be overleveled for the starting zones.

Also

apparently does plus the whole story and dungeons and class quests teach players how to play!
2389133-4949054815-micha.gif
 

Valor

Member
I seriously don't get the whole "gating the expac behind content is bad for new players"
You're looking at it from a gamer perspective. Think about a practical business model standpoint.

Heavensward is advertised with the following:

Ishgard as a city
Large new areas
Flying Mounts
New items/armor

You purchase the product after never playing 2.0 and suddenly you're now x+ hours away from everything you purchased the game to experience.

That is a bad business model.

You can't just say "Well, they haven't seen 2.0+ content so it's all new to them!". That's not why they purchased the game at Heavensward. It's just a bad practice and honestly a moot point since it's likely never gonna happen again in FF14. If it does again for 4.0 then this game is pretty screwed in terms of player retention.
 

Kusagari

Member
I seriously don't get the whole "gating the expac behind content is bad for new players" when those new players, who start at level one (1), need to level up to 50 anyway. They can't just throw near max level characters at people like WoW apparently does plus the whole story and dungeons and class quests teach players how to play! For that alone I'm glad there is the lock. There are enough bad players at cap already that I don't want to go into a dungeon with a Scholar that doesn't know how to summon a fairy or a Paladin that doesn't know how to Flash. Plus, that 2.0-2.55 content is NEW to new players, they haven't done it before. And those saying "but they just want to play with their friends!" well their friends CAN play with them by running them through the dungeons/trials and if they don't care for the story they can skip cutscenes and story text to speed that up. Plus the increased 2.0 quest exp means even less (maybe no?) side quests cutting down on more stuff for them to skip.

The only argument I can see is a returning level 50 player who quit after 2.0 but again, in their case the patch content is new to them. They can skip all the story if they want, it's their game, but the Leviathan and Moggle Mog and Ramuh and Shiva fights are all new to them, and Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake are new. It's kinda bullshit wanting the new content but not wanting to do "new" content. "Waaah people did this stuff months ago, I want to do the stuff people did weeks ago!"

Also, yeah, it can be a lot to go through on an alt but then again this game doesn't need alts unless you want to cheat at TT tournaments or gear up two (or more) jobs running stuff with weekly lockouts.

Let's be real, most of the content to get to Heavensward is stupid fetch quests. Even skipping dialog it's still going to take hours upon hours to get to the expansion after hitting 50. And that's not even getting into the bullshit MSQ's that have you going back to Qarn and doing low level guildhests for no reason.

If there was some way that those players could be fast tracked through the hours of padding to just do the content that matters like Shiva, Keeper of the Lake, etc that would be one thing. But there isn't.
 

Zomba13

Member
You're looking at it from a gamer perspective. Think about a practical business model standpoint.

Heavensward is advertised with the following:

Ishgard as a city
Large new areas
Flying Mounts
New items/armor

You purchase the product after never playing 2.0 and suddenly you're now x+ hours away from everything you purchased the game to experience.

That is a bad business model.

You can't just say "Well, they haven't seen 2.0+ content so it's all new to them!". That's not why they purchased the game at Heavensward. It's just a bad practice and honestly a moot point since it's likely never gonna happen again in FF14. If it does again for 4.0 then this game is pretty screwed in terms of player retention.

If they bought HW they need to have bought ARR aswell so if they are new, from scratch, they are getting what they were paid and advertised. ARR is needed for expac, they buy that and the expac, get pissy at the expac for needing to play the base game. When you buy ARR you are x hours away from the end game of that! Hours and hours away from the lvl 50 dungeons and tome grinds and coil and ex primals.

HW advertises flying, you can't get that right away, you have to go through hours of content to unlock it for a zone. Flying should come as standard. New weapons and armour take hours to grind for, they should be given as standard.
 

Sifl

Member
What is it with the Chrysalis fight? Everytime I try to complete it, once we get teleported everyone runs around like an idiot and dies.
 

Zomba13

Member
What is it with the Chrysalis fight? Everytime I try to complete it, once we get teleported everyone runs around like an idiot and dies.

I don't know.
Pop all cooldowns before you get sucked in because they get 10x duration when you're in.
DPS should just focus on the magic whatsit, LB if needed. Tanks and healer/s should stand in circles (1 per) to absorb the comet hit. It's just a DPS check.
 

Kenai

Member
The majority of the gameplay of the game has nothing to do with the story. I can get the story on youtube in significantly less time than it takes to play the game, so, no, it's not being told to 'play' this one. And I've actually NEVER seen an expansion gate content like this, so I'm not sure where you got that idea. If FF11 did it that was an awful idea too, but EQ didn't, wow didn't, DAoC didn't, nothing did. There might be specific quests to get into a specific raid zone or something, I don't have any problem with those. But you could absolutely do expansion content, new zones, etc in every other MMO without being saddled with the mandatory exposition of everything that came prior. In WoW they had serious attunement quests during part of one expansion (Burning Crusade) and those were lifted when the next tiers came out. You could literally roll a character tomorrow and be raiding with me in however long it takes you to level to 100 (with no artificial blocks at any point). Gearing is easy to fast track, though it takes some time, but it's also self contained per expansion.

This is an entirely nother level.

Well i remember people in WoW needing to be attuned for something but I don't remember what it was exactly since i played extremely casually back then. Something about an Eye of whatever? I know EQ didn't and never played DAoC long enough to raid, but those had other ways of gating you not tied to that. such as the fact that pretty much all of those games took much longer to exp to max level as well, although that was a product of the general times. The majority of them also required you to group up far more often than FF does now and didn't have the DF to make it easier.

It is definitely a way of making one play longer now that a lot of those familiar trappings aren't really acceptable anymore, and i can definitely see it as annoying, but it is also not a huge hassle either, at least as far as MMO standards goes. maybe that's why so many people are kinda meh on it? "Yea it's bad but it's not THAt bad" kinda deal. FF14's endgame *is* light, and they haven't introduced a host of new rep grinds, (0 beastman stuff since ixali) left things like the best crafted gear mostly optional so no need to grind money/mats or beg crafters to raid,, and made the world far more accessible than most do at launch with stuff like flying starting at 52 and the continuous innate 50%+ lower level class exp boost if you wanna switch a job. A lot of the stuff that other mmos still keep to slow you down just isn't in FF14.

The one thing I do wish they had not done that i thought was a mistake was not letting people play the new classes without getting to HW first. That seems kinda lame to me, they could have gated the 50+ class quests but having to grind in Coethas again if you had your heart set on a new class rubbed me the wrong way. Most of the 30-50 quests aren't in HW anyway unless they are cutscenes.

Again, i think a lot of this is a not so sneaky way of alleviating server congestion, which i hope will naturally require less desperate tactics as standard hardware becomes better. They had so many instance problems in the past, especially at 2.0 launch that seeing this launch pan out how it did still has me a bit shocked.
 

Stuart444

Member
What is it with the Chrysalis fight? Everytime I try to complete it, once we get teleported everyone runs around like an idiot and dies.

I've been very lucky recently, each attempt (thanks to trial roulette) ended successfully.

If you suffer a wipe because of that, just flat out tell people "tanks deal with the falling meteors, healers heal, melee LB3 on tear add and then DPS burn the rest of it down quickly"

It's literally that simple.
 

Sifl

Member
I don't know.
Pop all cooldowns before you get sucked in because they get 10x duration when you're in.
DPS should just focus on the magic whatsit, LB if needed. Tanks and healer/s should stand in circles (1 per) to absorb the comet hit. It's just a DPS check.
I'm DPS, but sometimes I'm the only 1 attacking the Tear or the tanks aren't doing what they're supposed to.
 

Valor

Member
If they bought HW they need to have bought ARR aswell so if they are new, from scratch, they are getting what they were paid and advertised. ARR is needed for expac, they buy that and the expac, get pissy at the expac for needing to play the base game. When you buy ARR you are x hours away from the end game of that! Hours and hours away from the lvl 50 dungeons and tome grinds and coil and ex primals.

HW advertises flying, you can't get that right away, you have to go through hours of content to unlock it for a zone. Flying should come as standard. New weapons and armour take hours to grind for, they should be given as standard.
I'm not sure if you're being obtuse on purpose or not.

You do realize that this argument is ridiculous, right?
 

Zomba13

Member
I'm not sure if you're being obtuse on purpose or not.

You do realize that this argument is ridiculous, right?

No. Someone, a brand new person, buys a game and then gets upset when he has to play that game to play the expansion, the DLC, the add-on, just baffles me. Especially in the case of an MMO that is persistent where if someone bought it and the expansion to play with friends they can still do that. The only thing I think is a bit unfair is owners of the expansion not being able to start with the new Jobs from level 1 (or 10 or whenever you can first change class). It just means the expansion is near uesless for first time players until 50 unless they want to be an Au Ra.

I mean, from my time with WoW, I first really got into it with Cataclysm I think, so the old world was made new but there was also BC and WotLK content. I went through that shit. I paid for that shit. I enjoyed that shit. I didn't do any dungeon content though and went through the old/new world quest stuff with a friend. I just think in that case, where I could get to level 90 or whatever it is now quickly and easily and jump into the new stuff I wouldn't have the skills for the end game stuff.

I just think it's a good idea to force players through the ARR content as they learn the skills needed for the class/job and basic group content. You can laugh or be an elitist prick about other players at 50-60 but are you really telling me that they don't have more skill and knowledge of a fresh faced 15 in Sastasha for the first time? Yeah, a DPS might not maximise it's rotation and clip their DoTs, a Tank might lose aggro on an enemy or be too conservative with their pulls and a healer might forget to heal and go DPS crazy but at least they've been through the however many dungeons and know basically what to do. Imagine having 50-60 being full of people who don't know what their skills do, haven't levelled alt classes for the needed skills, don't know what the agro meter is, don't understand positionals, don't know how to keep hate etc.

Plus, you know, it's a whole game they haven't played and they will figure out if they like the game or not before hitting the end of ARR anyway. Seems kind of a waste for SE to let people just ignore a huuuuuuge portion of their game when they're only on their first expansion.

Don't worry though, SE will have heard the whining and for 4.0 you'll most likely get a lvl60 character if you pre-order or something and can jump straight into finding the rest of the Scions and liberating Ala Mhigo/Domo/The Sea/The Moon.
 

docbon

Member
Did a 10 minute parse with my ilevel 180 warrior, strength specced with strength accessories.


Could have handled my fractures and berserk rotations a bit better, but I'm really satisfied with this kind of damage output for an OT.
 

BadRNG

Member
You don't seem to be understanding what the complaint is, or what the requested fix is. It's not a 1-50 insta level. It's not a skip button on all of 2.0. It's trimming down all of the bullshit padding that is present in the 2.1-2.55 patch storylines. I mean, how can you even compare the entire reworking of zones in Cata and the entire continent of Northrend with running around doing fetch quests in old areas you have already ran all over by now. Like seriously, I'm with Galen, it really seems like you are being deliberately obtuse in order to argue against something no one is even asking for.

Oh and as for this:

I just think it's a good idea to force players through the ARR content as they learn the skills needed for the class/job and basic group content. You can laugh or be an elitist prick about other players at 50-60 but are you really telling me that they don't have more skill and knowledge of a fresh faced 15 in Sastasha for the first time?
I was laughing at the idea that class quests or the story teaches you how to play, especially in regards to the content we are talking about removing. Unless you think talking to the same handful of npcs as you run all over the place being their bitch is somehow integral to the gameplay, it is pretty irrelevant point.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Went into Snowcloak solo on Scholar. Eos is a terrible healer and should uninstall.
Hardest part is almost always add management so bosses actually get easier as you go and the most damage comes from the three Dove Aevises right before Fenrir. Fenrir himself is a pushover and only drops 2 icicles, interestingly enough.
 

Zomba13

Member
You don't seem to be understanding what the complaint is, or what the requested fix is. It's not a 1-50 insta level. It's not a skip button on all of 2.0. It's trimming down all of the bullshit padding that is present in the 2.1-2.55 patch storylines. I mean, how can you even compare the entire reworking of zones in Cata and the entire continent of Northrend with running around doing fetch quests in old areas you have already ran all over by now. Like seriously, I'm with Galen, it really seems like you are being deliberately obtuse in order to argue against something no one is even asking for.

Oh and as for this:


I was laughing at the idea that class quests or the story teaches you how to play, especially in regards to the content we are talking about removing. Unless you think talking to the same handful of npcs as you run all over the place being their bitch is somehow integral to the gameplay, it is pretty irrelevant point.

I guess I must be crazy but neither you nor Valor mention the 2.1-2.55 stuff to me and Valors reply to me first mentioned a new player buying HW and feeling annoyed at not being able to access the 50-60 content right away and having to invest hours and hours into the base game.

By all means they could cut down on the 2.1-2.55 "filler", by filler I assume you mean all the go here and kill x or talk to me for a battle or pick up the flowers for the grave stuff? Basically all the non-instance stuff? I mean they could just give you a cutscene for it instead to get the point across but then there is the issue of area transitions so there would be filler of having to go to the location to trigger the cutscene.

For the 2.0 "filler" there would be major reworkings needed.

And while the class and job quests don't teach you as such, you unlock the new abilities, get told what they do and in certain quests are told to use them. Like the Tank ones have you keep hate off something while you get healed, the healer ones have you heal a guy, the ninja ones have you use the sneaky move etc. I mainly meant that you unlock new abilities and get to use them in content as they are given/earned so you have time to figure them out instead of like with the new jobs getting so many at once and needing to experiment quite a bit to realise each skills use which can be hard to do when fresh in a dungeon at level 30 first timing an entire class/job.
 

WolvenOne

Member
I guess I must be crazy but neither you nor Valor mention the 2.1-2.55 stuff to me and Valors reply to me first mentioned a new player buying HW and feeling annoyed at not being able to access the 50-60 content right away and having to invest hours and hours into the base game.

By all means they could cut down on the 2.1-2.55 "filler", by filler I assume you mean all the go here and kill x or talk to me for a battle or pick up the flowers for the grave stuff? Basically all the non-instance stuff? I mean they could just give you a cutscene for it instead to get the point across but then there is the issue of area transitions so there would be filler of having to go to the location to trigger the cutscene.

For the 2.0 "filler" there would be major reworkings needed.

And while the class and job quests don't teach you as such, you unlock the new abilities, get told what they do and in certain quests are told to use them. Like the Tank ones have you keep hate off something while you get healed, the healer ones have you heal a guy, the ninja ones have you use the sneaky move etc. I mainly meant that you unlock new abilities and get to use them in content as they are given/earned so you have time to figure them out instead of like with the new jobs getting so many at once and needing to experiment quite a bit to realise each skills use which can be hard to do when fresh in a dungeon at level 30 first timing an entire class/job.

As you said, filler stuffs cannot be removed without major reworking. That said, there are a number of quests that can be condensed into, "go talk to this NPC, done." Okay that's somewhat of an oversimplification, but still. Now, job quests can't be condensed as much, buuuut they're not nearly the time sink as the MSQ so that's fine.
 

Aeana

Member
I keep hearing that but I honestly had no problems with it. Spam leeches and you should be fine?

To start with, I had no idea that's what I was even supposed to do. Then I ran into the issue of the debuff not showing up reliably with the UI option that only shows debuffs you can cure or that you inflicted, which I always have on and have since they introduced it. Then I failed it because all of the dudes joined the battle and there were too many, so I had to set up a new target filter for NPCs only and then babysit them.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Found out a while back my character shares a singer's name, got asked a second time if there was any relation. lol
 

Lanrutcon

Member
So steam made me download 8 gig for Heavensward. The the SE launcher made me download 13. Then it told me that the xpac wasn't installed and I need to download 4 more.

This is what happens when you try to sell your shit through Steam but not actually manage your fucking updates through Steam.
 
So I just beat Titan!

AWESOME fight! Cool mechanics, and I got matched with 3 really cool people. We just talked for like 10 minutes before going to fight. Managed to beat him on first try too. I'm pretty sure I've read there are different difficulty levels for dungeons/trials I unlock later, and Titan is definitely one I'll be going back to for sure. :D

And then, the story mission right after...
:'( my heart.
 
Hey guys, quick question.

This is my first MMO, I got to level 18 in Gridania then got an air ticket so jumped in a ship to Lima limonsa(I forgot how to spell it) now all I see are level 3 quests. Have I fucked up by leaving Gridania? Do I seriosly have to do these low level quests?
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Unfortunately XIVdb isn't fully updated with where gear can drop or be obtained.
Really I the 140+ stuff is from Neverreap and the Fractual Continuum. Then you buy Law gear from Rowrena from Idyllshire. The weapons are from Bismark and Ravana EX. Also, there is a node that sells 150 gear in Helix, but your HQ 140 gear should be better. But your best bet is from http://xivdb.com/ Not really a list, but it has some info on how to obtain stuff.
The Vault - ilvl 142
Crafted/Vendor - ilvl 145
Great Gubal Library - ilvl 148
Neverreap & Fractal Continuum - ilvl 160
Law Tomestones - ilvl 170, upgradeable to 180
Bless.
 
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