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[iammeiam]

The good news is if you know, like, two level 60s (probably safest if one is a tank) they can just run you through the original HM primals. No waiting required.

Are you sure you're on the right questline?

Patch story never required Bowl of Embers Hard. The only two ARR content things you have to do for patch story are 2 guildhests and the originally optional Qarn dungeon. The rest of the story content is patch added.

This changed a while back. The 2.5 MSQ requires the original three HM Primals be completed.

 

[sora87]

Yeah I never did them before, so I've had to sit around all day waiting for duty finder. On Titan now so another hour or so and I'm in the home stretch for Heavensward

 

[dramatis]

Oddly enough, it turns out the patch 2.5 (I think it was that one? That or 2.55) story required the original 3 HM primal fights before you could start it. Two of my friends came across that same issue. I think most people don't realize those were required to finish the last bit of story before Heavensward because most people already did them as a part of the relic quest.

That's weird. Fair enough.

 

[Sorian]

This changed a while back. The 2.5 MSQ requires the original three HM Primals be completed.

Further cementing my point that yoshida and co. are out of touch. No reason for the 3 HM primals to be gating 2.5. Absolutely 0 reason.

 

[Audioboxer]

Just had a Raubahn Aldynn card drop from Swift, and then an Ifrit 1 win later! :|

Woop. Up to 55 cards now. Snagged a Lahabrea from a silver pack earlier.

 

[iammeiam]

Further cementing my point that yoshida and co. are out of touch. No reason for the 3 HM primals to be gating 2.5. Absolutely 0 reason.

Any time something like this happens I just assume it's some plot BS I've skipped.

Why the second, and not the third, time you kill the original Primal trio would be so important I do not know, but I blame it just the same.

The lack of real incentive to bother with trial roulette at this point probably makes things way worse for new players than it needs to be.

 

[scy]

The best part is, we all assumed the requirement meant we were getting another Ultima Weapon-esque fight and to be prepared to plumes, stomps, and probably someone LBing the spiny.

Instead we get Chrysalis and zero references to that requirement.

 

[HylianScribe]

How many subs did that one site (Game Revolution right?) claim XIV has? Well, regardless, probably will get an update during that consensus part of the 14-hour live stream for the 2-year anniversary. Reason I bring it up is that yesterday an announcement came out that WoW's subs are down to 5.6M from 7.1. I recall XIV being near 4M at some point. So it's possible at some point XIV could overtake WoW?

However, in the WoW thread somebody claims XIV actually has under 1M actual "subs", but around 5M people who have bought the game. Guess it's weird when you have copies sold, accounts made, and subs.

 

[Audioboxer]

If anyone browsing isn't subscribed I'd appreciate the help in getting a Friendship Circlet as I'm about to start the long road of levelling a weaver from level 1

Recruit code: 2T4RX3UC

Thanks!

edit: Does anyone have any links to good crafting guides as well?

 

[Sorian]

How many subs did that one site claim XIV has? Well, regardless, probably will get an update during that consensus part of the 14-hour live stream for the 2-year anniversary. Reason I bring it up is that yesterday an announcement came out that WoW's subs are down to 5.6M from 7.1. I recall XIV being near 4M at some point. So it's possible at some point XIV could overtake WoW?

The only number SE ever released was for total accounts created, never for concurrent active account. You'll be holding your breath for a long time if you ever think FFXIV is getting close to that 4 mil number IMO.

 

[hamchan]

How many subs did that one site (Game Revolution right?) claim XIV has? Well, regardless, probably will get an update during that consensus part of the 14-hour live stream for the 2-year anniversary. Reason I bring it up is that yesterday an announcement came out that WoW's subs are down to 5.6M from 7.1. I recall XIV being near 4M at some point. So it's possible at some point XIV could overtake WoW?

However, in the WoW thread somebody claims XIV actually has under 1M actual "subs", but around 5M people who have bought the game. Guess it's weird when you have copies sold, accounts made, and subs.

The around 1m subs is probably right. Still, 5 million copies sold for a game that was a disaster in 1.0 is pretty good, and the game will keep growing.

 

[iammeiam]

I recall XIV being near 4M at some point. So it's possible at some point XIV could overtake WoW?

Given where they are in their life cycles, I'd say it's possible XIV might overtake on concurrent subs before WoW gets shut down, but reflecting on HW I really don't think XIV is going to explode much beyond the base it has now and I doubt the sub count is even remotely close right now. Which is pretty solid for a monthly sub MMO, don't get me wrong, but IMO if the population balance flips around it'll have more to do with WoW's decline and eventual wind-down than FFXIV's growth.

 

[Omni]

I'm about to start HW. Like two quests away I think.

Question. Would it be better to do those quests as a Bard or White Mage? Does it matter? I have both at level 50 now but I should probably just focus on one. I've noticed that most quests thus far require you to kill things which is an awful slog as a healer. But on the other side, I prefer healing over boring DPS.

>.>

 

[rubius01]

This is a strange question and perhaps shouldn't be here but what is gonig to happen to WoW when its shut down? Will Blizzard turn it into an off-line game (I wouldn't even begin to figure out how)? Or will it just go away? And if that's the case, that fate would be a shame for such an important game.

 

[Alrus]

I'm about to start HW. Like two quests away I think.

Question. Would it be better to do those quests as a Bard or White Mage? Does it matter? I have both at level 50 now but I should probably just focus on one. I've noticed that most quests thus far require you to kill things which is an awful slog as a healer. But on the other side, I prefer healing over boring DPS.

>.>

Play the class you like the most. If you're soloing as a healer don't forget about cleric stance and having your chocobo out, it's a nice increase in speed overall.

Queues will usually be faster as a healer too.

This is a strange question and perhaps shouldn't be here but what is gonig to happen to WoW when its shut down? Will Blizzard turn it into an off-line game (I wouldn't even begin to figure out how)? Or will it just go away? And if that's the case, that fate would be a shame for such an important game.

When a mmos dies (it's not even close to happening with WoW by the way), the server are shut down and the game is done officially. Making it a single player experience would require insane retooling of everything and wouldn't be worth it financially.

What you might see though, is unofficial private servers popping up.

 

[Sorian]

This is a strange question and perhaps shouldn't be here but what is gonig to happen to WoW when its shut down? Will Blizzard turn it into an off-line game (I wouldn't even begin to figure out how)? Or will it just go away? And if that's the case, that fate would be a shame for such an important game.

When big things like that go away, don't fans try to keep a copy of a server going somehow? I don't really know all that goes into that but I thought something similar happened with Star Wars Galaxies.

 

[Tabris]

Further cementing my point that yoshida and co. are out of touch. No reason for the 3 HM primals to be gating 2.5. Absolutely 0 reason.

Titan HM should be a license test for entering Heavenward.

Then they should give 0 reason for anyone to do Titan HM, remove it from trial roulette, so it's only new players, so they learn together.

Yes, I understand from a business point why they wouldn't do it, but I don't know how new players learn to dodge without Titan HM and then Titan EX. Nothing else HM wise after it has such a harsh penalty for failing to dodge.

 

[Sorian]

Titan HM should be a license test for entering Heavenward.

Then they should give 0 reason for anyone to do Titan HM, remove it from trial roulette, so it's only new players, so they learn together.

Yes, I understand from a business point why they wouldn't do it, but I don't know how new players learn to dodge without Titan HM and then Titan EX. Nothing else HM wise after it has such a harsh penalty for failing to dodge.

I would 100% endorse this idea for entering Alexander or the new 24 man or the new primals. Just to enter HW content though? Nah.

I would love if they added challenges tailored to each class that gave you a grade at the end and you could only enter certain levels of content if you met a certain grade. (Bronze, Silver, Gold)

Edit: They would actually need to allow player testing for that though IMO. It would have to released tuned perfectly for it to be effective.

 

[SliceSabre]

Healer challenge! Ummm...keep these things alive!

 

[iammeiam]

Healer challenge! Ummm...keep these things alive!

I have to think any kind of real healer test for, like, Savage would be healing some NPCs fighting a monster with an enrage timer, and the NPCs themselves wouldn't be capable of pushing the DPS necessary to beat it. Sort of a "No, seriously, these DPS buttons we gave you? Use them." check. Fight pattern/situational awareness, etc.

 

[Tabris]

I would 100% endorse this idea for entering Alexander or the new 24 man or the new primals. Just to enter HW content though? Nah.

I would love if they added challenges tailored to each class that gave you a grade at the end and you could only enter certain levels of content if you met a certain grade. (Bronze, Silver, Gold)

Edit: They would actually need to allow player testing for that though IMO. It would have to released tuned perfectly for it to be effective.

Actually, that's how you solve being carried through content but ensuring players still learn.

You get knocked off Titan HM, so while you win via the PT, your grade is a C.

And you need an A grade on these fights to do these fights.

 

[Alrus]

Healer challenge! Ummm...keep these things alive!

While dpsing of course

 

[hamchan]

This is a strange question and perhaps shouldn't be here but what is gonig to happen to WoW when its shut down? Will Blizzard turn it into an off-line game (I wouldn't even begin to figure out how)? Or will it just go away? And if that's the case, that fate would be a shame for such an important game.

I think WoW will shut down when I'm an old man, maybe even past that.

 

[SliceSabre]

I have to think any kind of real healer test for, like, Savage would be healing some NPCs fighting a monster with an enrage timer, and the NPCs themselves wouldn't be capable of pushing the DPS necessary to beat it. Sort of a "No, seriously, these DPS buttons we gave you? Use them." check. Fight pattern/situational awareness, etc.

While dpsing of course

I'd like something akin to the White Mage level 50 job quest. Try to keep multiple things alive while you're getting the shit beaten out of you and trying to dps. That'd be a real healer's test because you know, it'd still involve actual healing and not a just dps check.


The real test would be figuring out something for DPS and Tanks to do because just telling DPS "Hey! DPS harder!" Is lame as hell.

Tanks could be something like "Your healer has lots of aggro!! Stop the monsters! If they touch the fleeing healer you lose!"

Either way it'd have to be class tuned. Telling a SCH to dps while healing is child's play. Telling a AST to dps while healing is more of a test for them.

 

[Valor]

The real test would be figuring out something for DPS and Tanks to do because just telling DPS "Hey! DPS harder!" Is lame as hell.

This is why we have people still pulling 300 dps in HW.

 

[WolvenOne]

Incidentally, the game is probably over a million concurrent subs now, with that number going up during major patches and such. A portion of the population only seems to sub for a few months at a time.

I also read that the game was likely over a million concurrent subs back in February, based on some math and comments YoshiP made. It probably briefly went over two million during the first month of the patch, if I had to guess. Things were crazy busy there for a few weeks.

I don't see the game getting too much bigger though. There's a chance between slow growth and sub spikes we might hit three million during the next expansion, but outside of something major happening like FFXIV getting an Xbox1 release I wouldn't count that as too likely.

 

[docbon]

That OT warrior rotation Xenosys shared is the truth. Maintaining 900~ DPS over the course of 17 minutes in mostly i180 gear (i190 head + waist) without burning vengeance and raw intuition for stacks.

 

[Sorian]

Healer challenge! Ummm...keep these things alive!

While dpsing of course

In this game actually, yes. A gold rank would depend on you healing while also dpsing a target. There was a SWTOR boss fight that actually shuffled you off to challenge rooms during the fight that were divided by tank, dps, healer and if any group failed their challenge it buffed the boss with regen, strength up, and defense up. The healing challenge was actually the hardest. All they had to do was keep a target alive but it was through two mobs wailing on the target and the target having a strong DoT.

Edit: And yes, it would definitely be class based. DPS harder is lame but telling a monk to reach an attainable but very tight DPS ceiling says a lot about the class. Alternatively, you don't want the BLM to reach their ceiling, you want them to keep a very respectable number while dealing with a ton of ground AoEs.

 

[SliceSabre]

I think for healers it wouldn't be so much just healing but healing based around what their class is like.

Instead of just telling a AST to dps while healing. You tell them to maintain buffs effectively on a group of allies while healing them. That is a more worthy test of the player's use of the class.

Whereas for a Scholar, yeah tell them to effectively dps while healing.

White Mage I'm not sure.

 

[Sorian]

I think for healers it wouldn't be so much just healing but healing based around what their class is like.

Instead of just telling a AST to dps while healing. You tell them to maintain buffs effectively on a group of allies while healing them. That is a more worthy test of the player's use of the class.

Whereas for a Scholar, yeah tell them to effectively dps while healing.

White Mage I'm not sure.

WHM and SCH should both be dping while healing. SCH just has a tighter DPS check and WHM has a tighter healing check.

AST would go into a trial with 5 computer controlled allies. 1 tank who is bad with CDs and 4 DPS (standard party comp so lets go with a melee, brd/mch, BLM, SMN). Their job is to keep the tank alive and make sure the target dies in a certain time frame. The DPS check is extremely tight and the AST is not allowed to attack the target themselves, only buff the computer DPS fighting it.

 

[iammeiam]

^- Have you seen Gravity? No AST test should disallow Gravity.

I think for healers it wouldn't be so much just healing but healing based around what their class is like.

Instead of just telling a AST to dps while healing. You tell them to maintain buffs effectively on a group of allies while healing them. That is a more worthy test of the player's use of the class.

Whereas for a Scholar, yeah tell them to effectively dps while healing.

White Mage I'm not sure.

All three healing classes should be DPSing while healing, though. I don't have SCH 60, but their DPS is assumed. AST should have a lowered healing throughout expectation, because their potency is lower, but should be balancing the lowered healing requirements with card games and DPS. AST will have to stance dance a little more often and probably has a slightly lowered DPS expectation, but it should still be there.

WHM is nuke heals and AOE heals combined with stance dancing, IMO.

Basically all three healers should be "keep this thing from dying while making sure this other thing dies", it's just the throughput numbers for healing and DPS will vary a bit.

 

[Sorian]

^- Have you seen Gravity? No AST test should disallow Gravity.

For the purposes of the test set-up I proposed, it was a necessary evil. They should definitely DPS out in the real world but I think it's more important to test their effectiveness with cards.

Do you know how many time I've gotten that stupid card that lowers my GCD on BLM? Such a stupid placement of card. ASTs need to think not suck.

 

[Jayhawk]

That OT warrior rotation Xenosys shared is the truth. Maintaining 900~ DPS over the course of 17 minutes in mostly i180 gear (i190 head + waist) without burning vengeance and raw intuition for stacks.

Your DPS WAR available tonight?

 

[SliceSabre]

For the purposes of the test set-up I proposed, it was a necessary evil. They should definitely DPS out in the real world but I think it's more important to test their effectiveness with cards.

Do you know how many time I've gotten that stupid card that lowers my GCD on BLM? Such a stupid placement of card. ASTs need to think not suck.

What do you mean using Enhanced Spire on the SMN is not a good idea?

 

[Sorian]

What do you mean using Enhanced Spire on the SMN is not a good idea?

Need those pro sprints.

Edit: For the purposes of my earlier test, the melee forgot to cross class invigorate before the fight. Whoops.

 

[iammeiam]

For the purposes of the test set-up I proposed, it was a necessary evil. They should definitely DPS out in the real world but I think it's more important to test their effectiveness with cards.

Do you know how many time I've gotten that stupid card that lowers my GCD on BLM? Such a stupid placement of card. ASTs need to think not suck.

Smart card usage is important, but healer DPS also test general fight awareness in a way card games can't/don't. Since cards are oGCD and don't require a stance change, they're more a thing you do during spam heals than an actual focus shift. Bole/MP/TP regen card usage should be tested, but there needs to be a component of testing stance dancing itself to me since it says something about predictive healing.

I may or may not also be guilty of Ewering melee during trash pulls because it's like the third one in a row and I'm nowhere near needing MP and FINE STUPID CARD ENJOY YOUR NEW MONK HOME.

 

[scy]

Spire -> Spire -> Spire -> Spire -> Ewer

 

[SliceSabre]

Spire -> Spire -> Spire -> Spire -> Ewer

What actually happens...

Spear -> Shuffle-> Spear -> Arrow -> Shuffle -> Arrow -> Bole

 

[Frumix]

The AST trial would literally be unwinnable due to RNG.

Also the key fault of Balance is that 10% of 0 is 0.
Also the key fault of Bole is that 10% of 11000 is 1100.

 

[aceface]

That OT warrior rotation Xenosys shared is the truth. Maintaining 900~ DPS over the course of 17 minutes in mostly i180 gear (i190 head + waist) without burning vengeance and raw intuition for stacks.

Where can I find this rotation you speak of?

 

[Sorian]

The AST trial would literally be unwinnable due to RNG.

Also the key fault of Balance is that 10% of 0 is 0.
Also the key fault of Bole is that 10% of 11000 is 1100.

Incorrect usage of the word literally.

A fight can be tuned to account for RNG. Yes some ASTs would pass based solely on a really good hand but the class is built that way, it is what it is.

 

[Redx508]

Where can I find this rotation you speak of?

FFXIV HW: Xeno's "Aggressive Style" Warrior Tanking Guide 3.0 40min video

 

[Frumix]

Incorrect usage of the word literally.

A fight can be tuned to account for RNG. Yes some ASTs would pass based solely on a really good hand but the class is built that way, it is what it is.

That would mean you'd have to be able to pass it without using cards at all because in the worst case scenario all you get is spires.

 

[Augemitbutter]

hopefully we can have some relic news in the next couple weeks. i still want original titan hm difficulty fights in solo play for your relic. make people proud! no echo.

also a little more story. the original relic line was good (i90).

 

[Kenai]

I think for healers it wouldn't be so much just healing but healing based around what their class is like.

Instead of just telling a AST to dps while healing. You tell them to maintain buffs effectively on a group of allies while healing them. That is a more worthy test of the player's use of the class.

Whereas for a Scholar, yeah tell them to effectively dps while healing.

White Mage I'm not sure.

Could do some of the tricks the WoW Proving Grounds did.

For DPS, they had multiple targets that needed to be taken out in a specific amount of time, including some that did not come in at the start of the wave. No damage to avoid, but had (I think) some mob AoE that would lower your dps if hit so meeting the enrage got near impossible if one didn't dodge. Promoted target switching and meeting a DPS check

For healers: they put you in a pt with other NPCs and expected you to keep everyone alive (and everyone could take damage, not just the tank. lots of AoE). If any of the NPcs died, game over.

For tanks, you had to pop your damage mit CD at the right time for big hits/mob waves and keep threat on multiple mobs at once. I believe you got a pt similar to healers but never did that one.

Had Bronze < Silver < Gold < Endless modes. Silver was required for Heroic dungeons (they dumbed down Silver a lot between MoP and WoD tho), Getting Wave 30 in Endless (was fairly hard) got you The Proven Tank/Assailant/Healer title.Your gear was ilvl capped too so you couldn't outgear it.

It wouldn't work 1:1 here due to class design here vs there (as an example most WoW healers have spell interrupts to mitigate some of that AoE, not the case here) but I think there's room for improvement in teaching people how to play their class. I think things like Savage Faust are pretty good checks for Alex but I'd like people to get a clue beforehand. Class quests alone aren't enough it seems, and when they did stuff like OG Steps of Faith and current Bismarck people would just drop the queue over and over again rather than deal with it (and even then most people who were bad and cleared it didn't learn, just got carried)

I wouldn't mind seeing some class specific quests like this for the new Relic quest line in 3.1 or w/e. Most of that relic stuff in ARR was busywork rather than actual "legendary" achievements, and since those are class specific I can't think of a better time to get people started.

In your example, targeting specific NPCs with specific buffs wouldn't be a bad idea for AST, to teach card effectiveness. WHM actually does a lot of DPS while healing, but they could also get asked to CC mobs with sleep or stun cause they have good options like Holy and Repose. SCH could be asked to move their fairy pet to specific areas to make them more effective or avoid cleaves (a big problem I saw with a lot of SCHs is being bad at pet maintenance). There's a lot of stuff they could do, and tbh asking a healer to DPS or keep an NPC alive isn't new for their class quests.

 

[Sorian]

That would mean you'd have to be able to pass it without using cards at all because in the worst case scenario all you get is spires.

Yeah, sorry, you lose then. This isn't a one time test in my example. It's an RNG class, that factors into the test. Great luck will make it easier and bad luck will make it harder.

 

[Wilsongt]

FFXIV HW: Xeno's "Aggressive Style" Warrior Tanking Guide 3.0 40min video

Stance Dancing as MT is all fun and games until you die on Normal mode Faust and blame your healer.

 

[Alrus]

Do you know how many time I've gotten that stupid card that lowers my GCD on BLM? Such a stupid placement of card. ASTs need to think not suck.

The Arrow one? I actually thought it was an okay card to put on BLM :/ Then again I haven't played the class past 56 and barely looked into it because I really don't enjoy it coming from a SCH.

 

[Ken]

Stance dancing is fun and games until you swap into the same stance and lose your IV stacks.

 

[Frumix]

Yeah, sorry, you lose then. This isn't a one time test in my example. It's an RNG class, that factors into the test. Great luck will make it easier and bad luck will make it harder.

No, it just indicates that the game has a bit more depth than can be measured by a simple number. Sometimes you see a DPS targeted by a mechanic maybe you want to give them a Bole. Maybe you want to give Balance to a tank that struggles with keeping hate. These things can't be measured with simple yes or no tests.