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[Tabris]

I can't remember the last time I went in PF and saw people selling clears.

Was happening quite a bit with Ravana EX. Yaru's group is always selling that and Alex NM on Ultros.

And the current loot lockout system makes it useless for players buying to do buy a Savage clear as they won't get a treasure unless the groups are willing to sacrifice their gear needed for A3S and A4S progression for a quick sell.

The most you could buy from A1S and A2S right now is a token.

EDIT - And with their new system, SE has invalidated any reason to clear Savage content outside gear. There's no story progression anymore for it. While some may have bought a Coil clear for story.

 

[scy]

Floors 1 and 2 were about normal Coil level but I feel like 3 is a lot harder than what people were used to with Turn 4/8/12 etc.

A lot more DPS checks and the new rotations make it harder for people to actually play jobs well without practice.

I mean, we're two months in? There's been a lot of content to practice on and a lot of time. A3S just asks you to know how to open on a short window, the raw DPS for it isn't really that strict (aka, they basically crammed Faust in 25s vs 150s). The overall enrage is another matter I suppose but that's still more about surviving the dance while doing damage.

I will say that the odd numbered patches dropping something for the end game raiders would probably go a long way. Tuning on A3S seems fine to me (it's probably harder to carry weaker members than previous raid tiers but nothing about it seems undoable or demanding perfection this far into the gear cycle)

More or less. We're at the spot in gear that A3S is at or past the overgearing mark. Strict rotation for the final ~8 minutes of the fight basically just means you have a lead up 3 minute dummy with a delayed opener and then the shenanigans of the add phase. Weapons (+ maybe coupon accessory) were probably around where they expected the first clears to come. We're approaching all 3 big left-side pieces being available at i200 so it's down to basic execution and no real gear excuse. Don't screw up mechanics for 12-ish minutes.

 

[Kagari]

Well first, most Final Fantasy games have incredibly hard secret bosses. See Ozma from FF9 as a good example.

Second, FFXI had incredibly hard content available to players along with kinda hard and easy.

So saying it's due to this having an audience of FF fans as the reason shouldn't be it. Reason is due to WoW theme'd "give me everything in game" easy mode MMO players.

Many FF fans are casual players though. The market has changed as well - and you only need to look at Coil to see that. The percentage of people who did Coil have shown the developers of this game that making a wide range of hard content just isn't worth it.

 

[HylianScribe]

My gut feeling is that YoshiP and his team made their point with Alex Savage (A4S), and won't be pushing groups this hard again. I think they just wanted to prove for once they could make something that the best of the best could wreck their way through in 1-2 weeks and laugh about it. There will still be a savage mode for The Second Phase of Alexander, but I'm going to wager they either tone it down on the later floors or add in maybe a middle tier difficulty like a Hard Mode or Extreme. Savage should only be cleared by a select few, Babby should be cleared by all, but there should be a middle ground tier as well to keep a good amount of us occupied and not feeling a sense of hopelessness. A3S seems doable at some point for a good chunk of people (especially with maybe a few more upgrades to gear), but at this rate if feels like we (majority of raid groups) will need 3.2 gear to clear A4S from what's been said of it.*

*Most people in my static aren't even i200 yet (I'm 193 I think...), and I forgot that in both SCoB/FCoB, the huge difference in difficulty between doing the stuff (specifically T9/T12/T13) in progression gear at the lower end of the ilvl spectrum vs being near max ilvl. Once people are closer to i210, the fights might go more smoothly, but the fact the best groups are taking this long, with them having better and better gear with each passing week, makes me think this time around higher ilvl/gear isn't going to be enough to push as many groups over the edge like before in SCoB/FCoB.

Edit: This is what WoW does, right? They have multiple difficulty tiers for raid content. Did people like it? Was it viewed as successful?

 

[iammeiam]

More or less. We're at the spot in gear that A3S is at or past the overgearing mark. Strict rotation for the final ~8 minutes of the fight basically just means you have a lead up 3 minute dummy with a delayed opener and then the shenanigans of the add phase. Weapons (+ maybe coupon accessory) were probably around where they expected the first clears to come. We're approaching all 3 big left-side pieces being available at i200 so it's down to basic execution and no real gear excuse. Don't screw up mechanics for 12-ish minutes.

Yeah; Chest Pieces For All day made a huge difference in our A1/A2 speed, and we've more or less stopped sitting on the big CDs for HoP (I do my normal opener at pull now; Teryd no longer holding Litany so it is up for adds; etc.) from what I've managed to see of the P4 hands as a non-corpse the check there will be tight but nowhere near as bad as it would have been a week or two ago. Also all that left side stuff means failing to Virus and/or Rend Mind Cascade will be less of a thing.

"Don't fuck up" is always going to be a struggle, and I will say I'm using more buttons I thought I'd never need to use, but what I really need is a situational awareness gear carry to see gears and pistons on the other side of the map.

 

[WolvenOne]

I'll go as far so far as to say that, indeed, dropping something for hard-core raiders on odd numbered patches would probably do a lot to keep that segment of the playerbase content. Couldn't be a full raid of course, but a single really difficult trial would do it, even if it re-used assets from an earlier easier trial.

Other then that though, most players don't do hardcore raiding, it doesn't make sense to drop more resources there then they absolutely have to. Making an easy-mode version of raids solves that problem.

PS: Not to beat a dead horse, but I'd do, Savage Primals. Each re-uses assets from previous Primal Fights, but the boss battle music is remixed. Each fight is balanced with the intent of requiring a full party near or at that ilvl cap at the time of it's release. Beating the fight would give people a Title and a token that would be useless in the odd-numbered patch it was introduced it, but could be exchanged for a more powerful weapon the next time the ilvl cap was raised in the subsequent even numbered patch.

Not a vastly more powerful weapon mind you, more like 5-ilvls. Enough that it might give you a tiny boost when you're tackling the next few early turns of the following raid, but probably inconsequential when it comes to the later turns. More a trophy in the long term, than anything else.

 

[Sorian]

Well first, most Final Fantasy games have incredibly hard secret bosses. See Ozma from FF9 as a good example.

Second, FFXI had incredibly hard content available to players along with kinda hard and easy.

So saying it's due to this having an audience of FF fans as the reason shouldn't be it. Reason is due to WoW theme'd "give me everything in game" easy mode MMO players.

Wait, I'm not going to insert myself in this debate but Ozma is a bitch. Carry on.

 

[Tabris]

Many FF fans are casual players though. The market has changed as well - and you only need to look at Coil to see that. The percentage of people who did Coil have shown the developers of this game that making a wide range of hard content just isn't worth it.

Well one of the issues with Coil is they didn't give enough of an incentive for players to try. For a more casual player, why even try? But if you made gear that totally outclassed everything in that content (my i200, i210, and i240 example) and a natural progression from easy to medium (they are missing this completely) to hard to savage, you would see more people getting there. Most people just don't have enough incentive to try and make friends to play that content together, when they can gear up just as fine playing with strangers and waiting for the next patch to be carried through that older content.

Also I'm trying to think of a Square Enix game where there isn't super difficult secret bosses. Even in their casual games like Kingdom Hearts? Check. They also force you to play harder difficulties (or beat those bosses) to get things like secret endings. Tangible rewards will always drive people to play that hard content.

 

[Pellegri Testament]

Well first, most Final Fantasy games have incredibly hard secret bosses. See Ozma from FF9 as a good example.

Second, FFXI had incredibly hard content available to players along with kinda hard and easy.

So saying it's due to this having an audience of FF fans as the reason shouldn't be it. Reason is due to WoW theme'd "give me everything in game" easy mode MMO players.

How many people do you think actually saw and beat bosses like Ozma? How many people do you think actually knew about him in the first place? Just because the harder content is there, doesn't mean it's put in place to appeal to a large crowd. Most people who play games to beat them, are happy at just doing that. Hard optional bosses are by no means there for the casual crowd, it's just something extra for those die hard fans that want something more to do once the story is over.

 

[Tabris]

How many people do you think actually saw and beat bosses like Ozma? How many people do you think actually knew about him in the first place? Just because the harder content is there, doesn't mean it's put in place to appeal to a large crowd. Most people who play games to beat them, are happy at just doing that. Hard optional bosses are by no means there for the casual crowd, it's just something extra for those die hard fans that want something more to do once the story is over.

Well I'll use another example, Penance and Nemesis from FFX.

And how many people beat them? One sec booting up PS4 to see the trophy.

EDIT - 4.2% beat Nemesis, 2.9% beat Penance. That's probably close to the rate for Coil on initial patch cycle. I don't see the harm in that?

EDIT 2 - Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix - Terra Boss is at 8.1%

 

[Valor]

Well I'll use another example, Penance and Nemesis from FFX.

And how many people beat them? One sec booting up PS4 to see the trophy.

EDIT - 4.2% beat Nemesis, 2.9% beat Penance. That's probably close to the rate for Coil on initial patch cycle. I don't see the harm in that?

Well that trophy is pretty glitched too with a lot of scrubs like Kagari getting it for killing rando mobs or whatever.

 

[EndcatOmega]

I'm not sure Ozma is a particularly good example of a tough fight, though- 95% of that fight was set-up. There's not really much thought going on when you do the actual fight itself except maybe chuckling when he does something stupid like Holy.

e: I can't remember Penance it's been like ten years since FFX well played.

 

[Tabris]

Well that trophy is pretty glitched too with a lot of scrubs like Kagari getting it for killing rando mobs or whatever.

I also included another example from Kingdom Hearts 2

 

[hamchan]

I think you can just zanmato Penance and Nemesis. Trophy percentages are low probably because no one can be bothered to grind that much and do the bad side stuff in FFX.

 

[Frumix]

Surely Ozma that's a ball of textures and a bunch of simple scripting isn't directly comparable to entire highly budgeted areas with their own art assets, soundtrack and intricate animations/programming. Come on now.

 

[Tabris]

I think you can just zanmato Penance and Nemesis. Trophy percentages are low probably because no one can be bothered to grind that much and do the bad side stuff in FFX.

Not Nemesis. Nemesis needs to be beat legit, along with the rest of the bosses before it from the Monster Arena. But Kingdom Hearts 2 example is one where there's no requirements before it and it's at 8%

 

[EndcatOmega]

Surely Ozma that's a ball of textures and a bunch of simple scripting isn't directly comparable to entire highly budgeted areas with their own art assets, soundtrack and intricate animations/programming. Come on now.

But does Chocobo Hot and Cold have better lore than Alexander and Coil is the real question here?

(The answer is yes).

 

[Tabris]

Surely Ozma that's a ball of textures and a bunch of simple scripting isn't directly comparable to entire highly budgeted areas with their own art assets, soundtrack and intricate animations/programming. Come on now.

Well you could say the same thing for any boss in earlier FF games then.

But let's use another example then. Terra from Kingdom Hearts 2 FM.

It had a secret ending associated with it, he had his own art assets, his own arena, his own intricate animations and programming.

Or how about any FF game with complex secret dungeons? Like FFX-2's.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I think you can just zanmato Penance and Nemesis. Trophy percentages are low probably because no one can be bothered to grind that much and do the bad side stuff in FFX.

I definitely gave up on it when I learned just how much I actually had to do to approach some of those trophies.

 

[WolvenOne]

My gut feeling is that YoshiP and his team made their point with Alex Savage (A4S), and won't be pushing groups this hard again. I think they just wanted to prove for once they could make something that the best of the best could wreck their way through in 1-2 weeks and laugh about it. There will still be a savage mode for The Second Phase of Alexander, but I'm going to wager they either tone it down on the later floors or add in maybe a middle tier difficulty like a Hard Mode or Extreme. Savage should only be cleared by a select few, Babby should be cleared by all, but there should be a middle ground tier as well to keep a good amount of us occupied and not feeling a sense of hopelessness. A3S seems doable at some point for a good chunk of people (especially with maybe a few more upgrades to gear), but at this rate if feels like we (majority of raid groups) will need 3.2 gear to clear A4S from what's been said of it.*

*Most people in my static aren't even i200 yet (I'm 193 I think...), and I forgot that in both SCoB/FCoB, the huge difference in difficulty between doing the stuff (specifically T9/T12/T13) in progression gear at the lower end of the ilvl spectrum vs being near max ilvl. Once people are closer to i210, the fights might go more smoothly, but the fact the best groups are taking this long, with them having better and better gear with each passing week, makes me think this time around higher ilvl/gear isn't going to be enough to push as many groups over the edge like before in SCoB/FCoB.

Edit: This is what WoW does, right? They have multiple difficulty tiers for raid content. Did people like it? Was it viewed as successful?

I rather hope so. I think given time and practice my group can can AS3 and 4 down, but I can already tell that difficulty wise this isn't a natural fit for my group. Granted, if we do eventually get it down everything else might seem easy in comparison, but I rather doubt it.

PS: Optional Super Bosses in turn based JRPG's probably take far fewer resources to create than optional super-bosses in MMORPG's. MMORPG's have a more fluid battle system than a turn based battle system, and thus probably require far more testing and balancing. Checking to make certain people can't cheese the fights or whatnot.

So no, the comparison likely isn't particularly apt.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

X amount of manifestos should be able to be converted into one of the following tier

Add that in 3.1 along with welfare gobbytwine before we are all drowning in right sides we will barely use.

 

[Tabris]

PS: Optional Super Bosses in turn based JRPG's probably take far fewer resources to create than optional super-bosses in MMORPG's. MMORPG's have a more fluid battle system than a turn based battle system, and thus probably require far more testing and balancing. Checking to make certain people can't cheese the fights or whatnot.

So no, the comparison likely isn't particularly apt.

Kingdom Hearts 2 is not a turn based battle system.

Add that in 3.1 along with welfare gobbytwine

Another reason to add to the lack of incentive currently put on players to run harder content. Everything is given to them eventually so why bother?

 

[Sorian]

X amount of manifestos should be able to be converted into one of the following tier

No, then people can get items that they don't deserve. X amount of manifestos should be able to be converted into the PREVIOUS tier though.

 

[Kagari]

Well one of the issues with Coil is they didn't give enough of an incentive for players to try. For a more casual player, why even try? But if you made gear that totally outclassed everything in that content (my i200, i210, and i240 example) and a natural progression from easy to medium (they are missing this completely) to hard to savage, you would see more people getting there. Most people just don't have enough incentive to try and make friends to play that content together, when they can gear up just as fine playing with strangers and waiting for the next patch to be carried through that older content.

Also I'm trying to think of a Square Enix game where there isn't super difficult secret bosses. Even in their casual games like Kingdom Hearts? Check. They also force you to play harder difficulties (or beat those bosses) to get things like secret endings. Tangible rewards will always drive people to play that hard content.

Well consider now players are given even less reason to do the hard content when the upgrade items and whatnot currently locked to them are handed out like candy on the odd numbered patches. Now that people can expect that it gives even less incentive to do harder content.

I'm not interested in that kind of thing myself but I can see why people aren't willing to do the big raids in larger amounts.

 

[iammeiam]

On the asset/expense thing: part of the way they did Savage/Normal this go-round means they spent less money on things to only be seen by a small % than in previous raid tiers. Basically the budget used for endgame raiding exclusively has shrunk pretty significantly. I'd be completely happy if they kept this up, but kept adding more Savage versions of things. Savage Primals in the odd numbered patches maybe? I know unique assets is the ideal but barring that just... More uses of what we have would be fine.

I also still don't know what to make of locking gobdip behind A4S and flattening weapon ilevels. Imagine T13 with all i120 weapons max? I don't think anyone in this thread did that; enrage was a thing with i130 weapons floating around. It's an odd, odd choice.

 

[SliceSabre]

Well one of the issues with Coil is they didn't give enough of an incentive for players to try. For a more casual player, why even try? But if you made gear that totally outclassed everything in that content (my i200, i210, and i240 example) and a natural progression from easy to medium (they are missing this completely) to hard to savage, you would see more people getting there. Most people just don't have enough incentive to try and make friends to play that content together, when they can gear up just as fine playing with strangers and waiting for the next patch to be carried through that older content.

Also I'm trying to think of a Square Enix game where there isn't super difficult secret bosses. Even in their casual games like Kingdom Hearts? Check. They also force you to play harder difficulties (or beat those bosses) to get things like secret endings. Tangible rewards will always drive people to play that hard content.

As said earlier in the thread your idea still would create a world in which devs would have to tune regular content, i.e. story fights, regular dungeons, to a base of players who hypnotically would have items levels from 200-240 and I doubt that is something they want to deal with.

Oh and before anyone mentions it ilvl syncing sucks and shouldn't be thought of as a solution to the above.

 

[Frumix]

Right, I guess my point should've been that resource allocation on developing single player games and MMOs is surely different.

Savage moniker is a misnomer on Alexander though. 1 through 3 aren't that different from doing Coil undergeared. 4 is allegedly overtuned though, no idea about that.

 

[WolvenOne]

On the asset/expense thing: part of the way they did Savage/Normal this go-round means they spent less money on things to only be seen by a small % than in previous raid tiers. Basically the budget used for endgame raiding exclusively has shrunk pretty significantly. I'd be completely happy if they kept this up, but kept adding more Savage versions of things. Savage Primals in the odd numbered patches maybe? I know unique assets is the ideal but barring that just... More uses of what we have would be fine.

I also still don't know what to make of locking gobdip behind A4S and flattening weapon ilevels. Imagine T13 with all i120 weapons max? It's an odd, odd choice.

Of course, I can live with them spending less money on fewer pieces of exclusively hard-core content, if we get more optional hard-core versions of content. Besides, even re-skinning old fights could potentially make for some really interesting experiences.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

No, then people can get items that they don't deserve. X amount of manifestos should be able to be converted into the PREVIOUS tier though.

After 3.1 welfare, that won't matter

 

[iammeiam]

As said earlier in the thread your idea still would create a world in which devs would have to tune regular content, i.e. story fights, regular dungeons, to a base of players who hypnotically would have items levels from 200-240 and I doubt that is something they want to deal with.

Oh and before anyone mentions it ilvl syncing sucks and shouldn't be thought of as a solution to the above.

Except that they just did that with HW; they knew people would be hitting the 50+ content somewhere between i90 and i130, and they just tuned around the low end and let the people on the upper end steamroll because most of that content isn't even supposed to be a challenge. Gear disparity has been a thing for a while; the 3.1 stuff will realistically need to deal with a 50 iLevel gap to cover people rolling in at EXDR i160 up through Alexander i210. Things that are beatable at i160 will be a joke at i210; bumping up the upper limit doesn't really damage anything further.

 

[Valor]

I think something everyone can agree on is that higher leveled loot isn't good enough of a reward for clearing harder content. All it does is foster in catch up mechanics later in the patch cycle. If there were exclusive items, dyes, mounts, etc attached to these raids maybe people would be more interested in doing them.

However, the problem really becomes that I don't think that Yoship and friends want to separate the haves from the have nots again. The air of casualness is pretty rampant in this game and while I don't think that is inherently a problem, it causes a lot of unease in people who want a challenge. I think they just need to find the right way to strike a balance, and I don't really know what steps I would take if I were in their shoes.

Creating a third tier of raiding would be expensive and time consuming for a small sect of the player base. I agree with Angary in that I don't mind the hard content being "remixes" of content made for a wider base audience. I actually am enjoying Savage? Surprisingly? Even though the fights bore me to tears in Normal, Savage modes are actually rather fun. I would definitely not mind them continuing to mix it up and give us Savage modes of primals (Though Jigglebutt is essentially Titan Savage which makes me all sorts of happy) and other content. Toss in a couple of mounts or titles or other small things like that and I think people could be rather pleased.

TL;DR I'd love to see hardcore and casual content come out in every patch. That would be amazing, even if the harder content is simply remixes of the casual content.

 

[PowerTaxi]

In half an hour my raid team can play the game of "Will our main tank show up?".

Hardest content in the game and it's beaten us for weeks.

 

[Kagari]

In half an hour my raid team can play the game of "Will our main tank show up?".

Hardest content in the game and it's beaten us for weeks.

Yeah I can see how that can be frustrating.

 

[SliceSabre]

I think something everyone can agree on is that higher leveled loot isn't good enough of a reward for clearing harder content. All it does is foster in catch up mechanics later in the patch cycle. If there were exclusive items, dyes, mounts, etc attached to these raids maybe people would be more interested in doing them.

However, the problem really becomes that I don't think that Yoship and friends want to separate the haves from the have nots again. The air of casualness is pretty rampant in this game and while I don't think that is inherently a problem, it causes a lot of unease in people who want a challenge. I think they just need to find the right way to strike a balance, and I don't really know what steps I would take if I were in their shoes.

Creating a third tier of raiding would be expensive and time consuming for a small sect of the player base. I agree with Angary in that I don't mind the hard content being "remixes" of content made for a wider base audience. I actually am enjoying Savage? Surprisingly? Even though the fights bore me to tears in Normal, Savage modes are actually rather fun. I would definitely not mind them continuing to mix it up and give us Savage modes of primals (Though Jigglebutt is essentially Titan Savage which makes me all sorts of happy) and other content. Toss in a couple of mounts or titles or other small things like that and I think people could be rather pleased.

TL;DR I'd love to see hardcore and casual content come out in every patch. That would be amazing, even if the harder content is simply remixes of the casual content.

The problem is eternal: if you don't give hard content raiders simply better gear...what can you give them? Gil, pets? MGP? More glamour?

 

[xezuru]

I like the how are these people better geared than me in savage and are all doing sub 1k dps, the detective game better.

 

[PowerTaxi]

Yeah I can see how that can be frustrating.

It's been like this for ages. Our dragoon has been tanking instead while the leader keeps saying he has a replacement lined up.

I'm tempted to just say fuck it and leave. Only issue with that is the dragoon became a good friend of mine

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

In half an hour my raid team can play the game of "Will our main tank show up?".

Hardest content in the game and it's beaten us for weeks.

Whatsapp (or a hangout) has made our group much much closer and more importantly, on time as we remind each other and give updates on our status aside from the casual fun talk. I guess that may not be an option for all groups, but I highly suggest it if the group is more than just casual. Our performance Last fall/winter vs after I beat everyone over the head to join it at the start of the new year has been night and day.

 

[WolvenOne]

The problem is eternal: if you don't give hard content raiders simply better gear...what can you give them? Gil, pets? MGP? More glamour?

Personally, I don't really need those sorts of incentives. I go after this sort of content because it's something to do, and because I enjoy doing content with people I know. The last part is really important actually, not that I consider raiding primarily a social experience mind you, buuuuut, doing the content with people you know, trust, and whom you get along with is of course, the dream!

 

[PowerTaxi]

Whatsapp (or a hangout) has made our group much much closer and more importantly, on time as we remind each other and give updates on our status aside from the casual fun talk. I guess that may not be an option for all groups, but I highly suggest it if the group is more than just casual. Our performance Last fall/winter vs after I beat everyone over the head to join it at the start of the new year has been night and day.

We have a separate FC(Which I'm actually not in anymore) forum and a facebook group. He is just not responding to any form of contact half the time

 

[Frumix]

Incentivizing is a huge problem this game is having not just in raids but in just about every facet of it. People don't even wish to do something simple with others anymore because it's become about maximizing grind outputs over time.

We have a separate FC(Which I'm actually not in anymore) forum and a facebook group. He is just not responding to any form of contact half the time

Sounds like it's time to give the tank the boot.

 

[SliceSabre]

I still need to do T9 someday...

 

[WolvenOne]

I still need to do T9 someday...

Wait until ilvl 250, go in there with 3PLD's and use the anti-knockback move to ignore divebombs. EZPZ.

(Serious talk, that probably wouldn't work, since the dive bombs are staggered. Still that turn is just going to get easier and easier in time.)

 

[Frumix]

Wait until ilvl 250, go in there with 3PLD's and use the anti-knockback move to ignore divebombs. EZPZ.

(Serious talk, that probably wouldn't work, since the dive bombs are staggered. Still that turn is just going to get easier and easier in time.)

Supergolem will never be beaten until your DPS is in hundreds of thousands.

 

[WolvenOne]

Supergolem will never be beaten until your DPS is in hundreds of thousands.

Thus, 3 paladins, one to manage and kill each golem. XD

PS: You do realize I'm not being serious right?

 

[scy]

TL;DR I'd love to see hardcore and casual content come out in every patch. That would be amazing, even if the harder content is simply remixes of the casual content.

Pretty much. There's a lot of precedent for reusing a bunch of assets so just having more Savage-esque things for small niches in gearing would be nice to have. Or more variety in vanity sets if we really want to go that route but the former would probably be an easier sell to most people (aka, don't fucking repeat Odin guys seriously that was a bad idea don't fucking do it).

More i120 weapons with an eventual i125 (or i130) step up as the next raid tier approaches ala Shiva is also probably not a bad idea either? I feel like there's a lot of room to think up ideas for gearing drops to fill whatever Savage-esque content they want to pump out on the off-patches.

 

[Tabris]

As said earlier in the thread your idea still would create a world in which devs would have to tune regular content, i.e. story fights, regular dungeons, to a base of players who hypnotically would have items levels from 200-240 and I doubt that is something they want to deal with.

Oh and before anyone mentions it ilvl syncing sucks and shouldn't be thought of as a solution to the above.

You just gotta them no reason to run the easier content.

Casual players don't get better as they get carried by more hardcore players.

Hardcore players do the hard and savage raids. Casual players do the easy and medium raids / content and learn how to play to go into the hard and savage raids. Casual players currently don't have a progression mechanism to get better except diving into the deep end which must be very hard.

What's wrong with haves and have nots. That's life. As long as everybody gets something appropriate to the content they are doing, I don't see harm.

 

[PowerTaxi]

[20:00] _______ joins the party.

WE CLEARED IT!

 

[WolvenOne]

In a world where elitists have nothing to do, one cephalopod must stand up against the forces of boredom, apathy, and no good meat heads! Ultros and Mr Typhon make their triumphant return in, Dragon's Neck Savage, Ultros' Revengence Returns!

Coming October 2016!

 

[Valor]

The problem is eternal: if you don't give hard content raiders simply better gear...what can you give them? Gil, pets? MGP? More glamour?

I mean I went over this in my opening statement that there are things outside of gear you can give as rewards that people want. Minions, mounts, titles, and glamour. Yeah. All of that is worthwhile stuff that isn't just x ilevels better than stuff that other people have. Eventually everyone will have that gear. Not everyone will have that minion or that mount or that title. The trick is to not only give ONE thing, but MULTIPLE things. Like clearing T13 and you got weapons, a minion, and a title. That felt pretty damn good and it felt like you were part of an elite club, if only for a while.

More i120 weapons with an eventual i125 (or i130) step up as the next raid tier approaches ala Shiva is also probably not a bad idea either? I feel like there's a lot of room to think up ideas for gearing drops to fill whatever Savage-esque content they want to pump out on the off-patches.

I would agree but with weapons not having accuracy anymore the permutations are few and far between unless you start doing Hey this Crit/Det bow has more Det than Crit and this one has more Crit than Det! I'm not super excited by this idea, but I'm also not against it. More choices = more better.

What's wrong with haves and have nots. That's life. As long as everybody gets something appropriate to the content they are doing, I don't see harm.

Yeah, man. I don't either. However the way this game is trending from the devs makes me think that they're trying to blur the lines between the two.

 

[Tabris]

Valor, a lot of people don't care about titles, minions, glamour.

You need to just bump up the ilevel difference. i200, i210, i240 example.

And give no catch up mechanic until it's at i240, i250, i280.