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[Tabris]

That's not a roulette issue, that's a gearing issue. If you want to say they should ilvl sync everyone down to be more in line with any fight they are going into then I agree with you, but I seem to remember you whining when they did that with dungeons. Also, please, why the hell would I ever do trial roulette? It has never been an optimal thing to do. I've only been caught doing it once or twice if I needed hardly anything left towards capping or something.

Trial roulette used to be the most efficient tomes / time spent in the game. Especially during the Novus and Nexus HM sprees, and before things like Steps. I don't believe you didn't do them. Either way, most other players did them daily carrying a large number of players through those critical learning fights like Titan HM.

And gearing doesn't change whether you're knocked off or not in Titan HM. So you would have 1 or 2 new players dead and the rest of group just carried them through the fight, and those 1 or 2 new players learned nothing.

 

[Frumix]

Trial roulette used to be the most efficient tomes / time spent in the game. Especially during the Novus and Nexus HM sprees, and before things like Steps. I don't believe you didn't do them. Either way, most other players did them daily carrying a large number of players through those critical learning fights like Titan HM.

And gearing doesn't change whether you're knocked off or not in Titan HM. So you would have 1 or 2 new players dead and the rest of group just carried them through the fight, and those 1 or 2 new players learned nothing.

Gearing would change that the remaining 1 tank 1 healer and 1 dps wouldn't have been able to finish before either soft or hard enrage got them.

...does HM Titan have a hard enrage?
Whatever, point stands.

 

[Tabris]

Server mergers are a sign of a dead game and will lead to lack of investment from SE and other backers. Next idea.

But a lot of servers are dead / barely populated, either via design or migrations. Ultros is a medium server and it's PFer is never longer then a page.

 

[Alrus]

So I hit 50, and was at first looking forward to continuing the story since release. I didn't realize all of these quests were fucking awful.

Why am I in DF for a level 30 dungeon? There are a HUNDRED of these quests before I can start Heavensward!? This has really quickly sapped my enthusiasm.

Your post got lost into the other argument. But what quest are you talking about? You shouldn't have to do a lvl 30 dungeon for any post Praetorium quest afaik?

 

[Tabris]

Asami, one thing I noticed you do is you argue against ideas but you never have proposed solutions. You are a negative nelly sir

So throwing this out again - How would you fix players not learning rotations and how to dodge due to carries via multiple carry elements SE has?

 

[Sifl]

Your post got lost into the other argument. But what quest are you talking about? You shouldn't have to do a lvl 30 dungeon for any post Praetorium quest afaik?

If I remember correctly, during a story quest before you go into Heavensward you have to redo the Sunken Temple of w/e the fuck it's called again.

Also my server is dead as fuck, there's 2 listings on the pf and 1 is a advertisement for a bunch of crap that they could put on the mb, and a fate party.

 

[Alrus]

If I remember correctly, during a story quest before you go into Heavensward you have to redo the Sunken Temple of w/e the fuck it's called again.

Also my server is dead as fuck, there's 2 listings on the pf and 1 is a advertisement for a bunch of crap that they could put on the mb, and a fate party.

Oh yeah indeed, 2.1's MSQ is even crappier than I remembered. At least they didn't really repeat that shit later (or I completely forgot about it)

 

[PataHikari]

I've been behind in FFXI multiple times during multiple breaks in that game, and that game had no concept of duty finder. You find people who are on the same page as you and start running things with them.
.

If you have to go to Final Fantasy XI to justify something then I'm afraid it's a bad idea.

 

[Sorian]

And gearing doesn't change whether you're knocked off or not in Titan HM. So you would have 1 or 2 new players dead and the rest of group just carried them through the fight, and those 1 or 2 new players learned nothing.

You aren't carrying two dead people through titan in level synced gear. What are you even talking about here? Of course gearing matters.

 

[Sorian]

Asami, one thing I noticed you do is you argue against ideas but you never have proposed solutions. You are a negative nelly sir

So throwing this out again - How would you fix players not learning rotations and how to dodge due to carries via multiple carry elements SE has?

Time is a flat circle man. We've already had this conversation:

I would 100% endorse this idea for entering Alexander or the new 24 man or the new primals. Just to enter HW content though? Nah.

I would love if they added challenges tailored to each class that gave you a grade at the end and you could only enter certain levels of content if you met a certain grade. (Bronze, Silver, Gold)

Edit: They would actually need to allow player testing for that though IMO. It would have to released tuned perfectly for it to be effective.

 

[Tabris]

You aren't carrying two dead people through titan in level synced gear. What are you even talking about here? Of course gearing matters.

Unless you are synced below i90, you can carry two dead people without issue through Titan HM. But is this your proposed solution? Add aggressive iLevel sync to everything so they return back to DPS checks and HP checks?

 

[Valor]

Not designing a game around an action system with 35 different commands could probably also help. I'm not advocating for 5 button rotations WoW seems to be going for as of late but coming into a Final Fantasy title, I don't think many people are looking to play piano etudes to succeed.

I mean I'm someone who hasn't played an MMO before and I don't find it all that difficult to do. At first, yeah, but it's been a learning process coming from zero. All you need is a training course and a couple of in-game feedback tips to let you know how you're doing. The problem is that the only feedback players get in the game is that you get big numbers when you crit and small numbers when you don't. There's no real way to tell if you're doing good or bad unless the enemy dies and you don't.

That's kind of why parsers are important?

 

[WolvenOne]

Ah, this again.

Long story short. Tabris wants this game to be FFXI, because of rose tinted glasses, not being able to move on, etc etc etc etc blah blah.

Everyone else is against this, because eff FFXI. Hardly anyone has the time or patience for that game design anymore. So Tabris came up with excuse numerous 5948 why this game would be better off with more FFXI elements.

For the record, no getting rid of the duty finder would not make people better players, it'd merely drive off a large number of players. The ratio of good to bad players would improve, but only because so many of the more casual players would be driven out.

As for the issue at hand. It's a bit more pronounced in Heavensward because of how they set up thier endgame. 2.0 had three HM Primals, and two additional trials, that were largely designed for new players in mind. They were good for introducing players to the sorts of mechanics they would see later on, but were forgiving enough that groups could still make mistakes and clear, within reason.

With 3.0, we had two trials, both of which are Extremes, and both of which are a bit much for new players. Alexander NM has helped considerably in this regard, but clearing all of Alexander is actually still a bit much for a random inexperienced player that's going into it without a support group. Then there's Savage, which is probably the worst raid possible if you're an inexperienced player that wants to try thier hand at progression. For all the difficulty people had, The Binding Coil of Bahamut was far more approachable.

The solution is to add more. The game needs more trials and activities designed for inexperienced players at sixty. As they play more they'll begin to recognize patterns, get bored, and seek out bigger challenges.

Yes they could go back to the level 50 trials, but there is zero reason to farm them right now, and clearing them once doesn't teach players much.

 

[Tabris]

I would love if they added challenges tailored to each class that gave you a grade at the end and you could only enter certain levels of content if you met a certain grade. (Bronze, Silver, Gold)

You know what they should do?

Take Metal Gear Solid PW and 5 mission summaries and apply it to this game. Contextual summaries for each trial.

Imagine Titan HM:

Job: MNK
Damage Dealt: 35678
Landslide Damage Received: 0
Weight of the Land Damage Received: 5
Falloff: No
Retries: 2
Echo Used: Yes

Rank: B

And you cannot access later content until you've scored a high enough rank on old content. And unsynced doesn't give you a rating.

EDIT - Changed it from job category to job because of differences between BRD/MCH to MNK/DRG to BLM/SMN etc.

Long story short. Tab risk wants this game to be FFXI, because of rose tinted glasses, not being able to move on, etc etc etc etc blah blah.

No, not at all, I have said multiple times I'm able to recognize the good aspects of FFXI that can be used to replace the bad aspects of FFXIV. I would not want to inherit the bad aspects of FFXI.

Yes they could go back to the level 50 trials, but there is zero reason to farm them right now, and clearing them once doesn't teach players much.

It would teach them if they were running with new players as well where everyone has to go through progression to learn the fight.

 

[thefil]

That's the thing though, People can do that right now and still choose DF due to the convenience and are picking for the harder content by checking things like WoW's player DB for achievements and clears. WoW is giving tons of people options (sometimes their only option depending on playstyle) and (were) designing future content for the game based around that.

A big part of the reason (imo) they are bleeding so many subs now is because they went out of their way to cater exclusively to the hardcore by putting so much emphasis on HM/Heroic raiding trying to recapture that feeling back in BC. So many shattered rose tinted frames.

Oh, absolutely people still choose DF. I was saying what if DF never existed because they had chosen the cross-server way to solve the problem from day 1?

I'm not saying I'm sure it would work. I do think it would be more likely to get players doing content they are all new to, together. It would also make certain things less convenient and take longer. MMOs are all about finding the right balance of convenience and mundanity to breed a good society.

My armchair rule of thumb would be: If it's solo content, convenience all the way. If it's group content, be careful about making it so convenient that people no longer need to communicate.

 

[Valor]

You know what they should do?

Take Metal Gear Solid PW and 5 mission summaries and apply it to this game.

My question is when does this stop being an MMO and start being an actiony game, I guess. Where is the line drawn? That's my big reservation about stuff like this.

 

[Tabris]

My question is when does this stop being an MMO and start being an actiony game, I guess. Where is the line drawn? That's my big reservation about stuff like this.

But all the mechanics I am talking against (DF & Roulette carries) fight against the nature of an MMO which is supposed to be to create a social environment.

DF and Roulette are more in line with FPS matchmaking then an MMO. More Halo then Everquest.

 

[thefil]

But all the mechanics I am talking against (DF & Roulette carries) fight against the nature of an MMO which is supposed to be to create a social environment.

DF and Roulette are more in line with FPS matchmaking then an MMO. More Destiny then Everquest.

I mostly agree with you, but do you think a more aggressively-synced roulette would be OK? Basically a roulette that syncs you down to say, the average gear for a player in your job at that level. Ideally within a megaserver-type environment, so you can friend people you meet through roulette.

*edit* I like the idea of ratings that prevent you from progressing. But if that was introduced, I would like there to be an option for people to queue for "story mode" where you start with Echo +25 or something and there are no progression blocks.

 

[Kenai]

But all the mechanics I am talking against (DF & Roulette carries) fight against the nature of an MMO which is supposed to be to create a social environment.

DF and Roulette are more in line with FPS matchmaking then an MMO. More Destiny then Everquest.

There is no rule stating that the community has to be bound by one server, or that people are obligated to maintain those connections after something as trivial as a 4 man.

The hardest content in the game still requires it and makes good use of it. What we need is median content, more more stuff that only appeases people with a lot of free time who are also actually interested in it.

If people wanted to pt up manually for dungeons right now, they'd do it right now cause they still can. But they don.t

 

[thefil]

If people wanted to pt up manually for dungeons right now, they'd do it right now cause they still can. But they don.t

This is only semi-true. First of all, the game shuttles you directly into Duty Roulette, so most players will take what's presented as the primary path.

Second, people will take the most convenient path even if it's not going to be more fun for them, because that's how brains work. If they added an easy mode Alexander that gave Savage-tier gear, everyone would do it even though it was less fun. There's something to be said for designing against what players would choose if it was available.

Third, you need a critical mass for people to party up manually, and that will not be present as long as the two aforementioned things are true. Any one person who decides to do this can't make an impact much more than maybe creating a low level static.

 

[Plywood]

So I hit 50, and was at first looking forward to continuing the story since release. I didn't realize all of these quests were fucking awful.

Why am I in DF for a level 30 dungeon? There are a HUNDRED of these quests before I can start Heavensward!? This has really quickly sapped my enthusiasm.

Unsync and burn through it.

There was a party the other day, all DPS had i200 weapons, couldn't break Carapace in one go, something that we were able to do with i170.
I mean.

At this point I'm used to seeing people actually try to convince party leaders to lower the ilvl because "i180 is overkill."

 

[Squishy3]

The solution I saw posted a while back (or maybe it was something someone in my FC said, I can't remember) is to have mandatory solo trials where you have to do x amount of DPS to proceed. Same for tanks/healers learning scenarios specific to them.

IE Tank needs to learn how to survive tank busters, as well as tank swapping with a NPC.

Healer learns how to heal tank busters performed on a NPC tank, as well as randomly selected heavy damage ala A1. Maybe also not to cast AOE heals before adds come out that will one-shot the healer. Looking at you random healers I see that cast AOE heals after the carapace is broken in Bismarck.

 

[Teknoman]

Ok sure, but isn't that exactly what none of us miss from everquest and FFXI? MMOs are built to respect players time these days not shit on them like they used too. It's the same logic someone would use to say that a duty finder type system is bad and people should just be forming parties with /shout in a city somewhere. Except that is time that you have to actively be looking instead of being able to get other things done. If this is the argument then meh, whatever, I'm happy the way it is, I never enjoyed spending an hour shouting the same message hoping a group would pick me up.

I just miss the social part. Sure you've got your FC, but what about...talking to random other people?

EDIT: I always thought class quests / job quests were also meant to teach people how to play them.

 

[Kenai]

This is only semi-true. First of all, the game shuttles you directly into Duty Roulette, so most players will take what's presented as the primary path.

Second, people will take the most convenient path even if it's not going to be more fun for them, because that's how brains work. If they added an easy mode Alexander that gave Savage-tier gear, everyone would do it even though it was less fun. There's something to be said for designing against what players would choose if it was available.

Third, you need a critical mass for people to party up manually, and that will not be present as long as the two aforementioned things are true. Any one person who decides to do this can't make an impact much more than maybe creating a low level static.

I guess it's gonna depend on the person in question what they want to do most, but as i said, having those options available to make things easier didn't actually remove the option to do them entirely if you want to build your own pt, whereas the opposite isn't true and would definitely limit people. SE is actually giving people options in this point to do what they find the most fun *if* they want to do the *slight* extra work involved of doing something like asking one's guild. But they aren't penalized in no one around them is instantly available (at least not much, DPS queue time and all).

I can sort of understand how the concept of DFs eroded the oldschool MMO sense of community on a server, but i think the positives definitely outweighed the negatives for most people. It means the days of getting literally nothing done when you log in are few and far in between now compared to before (and in cases like FF14 I am not sure they have the proper server structure for open world instancing the same way that WoW does).

 

[watervengeance]

I wish they made it easier for people to form Statics. I'm kinda tired of spending half the day AFK waiting for someone to respond to my Party Finder. Once I've capped my Esoterics and gotten all the loot from Normal Alex, there's very little I can do.

I can't level an alt, because I have to stay in Party Finder, so I can't enter a duty or join FATE parties. So I get to just stand in Idleshire for hours upon hours.

 

[Ken]

I wish they made it easier for people to form Statics. I'm kinda tired of spending half the day AFK waiting for someone to respond to my Party Finder. Once I've capped my Esoterics and gotten all the loot from Normal Alex, there's very little I can do.

I can't level an alt, because I have to stay in Party Finder, so I can't enter a duty or join FATE parties. So I get to just stand in Idleshire for hours upon hours.

Have you tried reddit ffxiv recruitment/your server's official forum.

 

[watervengeance]

Have you tried reddit ffxiv recruitment/your server's official forum.

I will try reddit, thanks.

 

[Wilsongt]

Putting some content behind barriers is just gonna breed a culture where the elitists or people with statics clear the content and move on from it, and then the more casual people are left in the dust.

Trust me, I'm a part of that left behind culture.

Want those new shiny weapons or accessories from the new EX primals?

Nope, gotta beat Garuda/Titan/Ifrit EX first which gives accessories high end players don't need anymore.

Want that fancy new weapon from Leviathan?

Nope. Gotta do Mog EX first which gives an accessory that's not worth it.

Wanna do Ravana EX and get a weapon for an alt since you have your eso weapon on your main?

Nope. Gotta beat Bismark EX first. Good luck with that since Bismark EX doesn't give anyone any reason to do it because the weapons are shit. As someone said, if you weren't rushing the content and doing everything before Early access, you're SOL unless your free company helps, and good luck with that sometimes.

That doesn't have much to do with players not being good or bad, that has a lot to do with time and who is putting in more time than others.

 

[Cmagus]

Just a heads up but the Final Fantasy XIV Before the Fall OST is up on iTunes now if anyone is interested. It's $27.99 and from what I can tell it doesn't have the code or at least I never got anything when I bought it.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Resubbed, immediately switched back to NIN. I'm definitely going to get it to 60 this time, even if I have to deal with the mudra lag.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

VPN helps minimize mudra lag.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

On that subject, is anyone using WTFast? I have it installed but since I'm doing mining at the moment I can't tell the difference. The software says I have 80ms less of lag but I dunno, it may be just a scam.

 

[Plywood]

Had another Bismarck Ex PF where one guy had to go so everyone else decided it was good time to bail. I then saw another PF and tried to join but my class was blocked and the ilvl was too high for my WHM. joy

 

[Sifl]

Had another Bismarck Ex PF where one guy had to go so everyone else decided it was good time to bail. I then saw another PF and tried to join but my class was blocked and the ilvl was too high for my WHM. joy

The ilvl shit is really aggravating. I've sent tells to people asking them to lower it so I could do Rav Ex with them (which I've already completed) and they send me generic responses like "srry, need high lvl gear". Even happened a few times when I tried to tag along on clear parties.

 

[Caj814]

Most of the BisEX PFs I've been in wiped due to not enough damage and adds slowing things down when the dragon killers were ready in the final phase.

 

[Squishy3]

Most of the BisEX PFs I've been in wiped due to not enough damage and adds slowing things down when the dragon killers were ready in the final phase.

A good easy way to insure the adds get killed everytime during the final phase is to have the OT solo tank the one that spawns off to the side in DPS stance and then the rest of the party comes to kill it after the other 2 have been dealt with. If it's still not dead and Bis is pulled in, it doesn't matter, the OT stays behind, everybody else hops on Bis to DPS the corona and if it's still alive you can finish it off before the next set of adds spawn. You should then have LB3 ready for the next time Bis is pulled in and between that and the rest of the DPS it should be dead. (If it's not, the island has enough HP to survive another slam from Bismarck provided the shield was activated everytime in phase 1)


When I was doing it it got to the point where PF groups would make it past snakes everytime but would fail at weather mechanics and then the group would fall apart afterwards.

 

[hamchan]

On that subject, is anyone using WTFast? I have it installed but since I'm doing mining at the moment I can't tell the difference. The software says I have 80ms less of lag but I dunno, it may be just a scam.

It's had a noticable difference for me. Went from 300 ping to 130 ping using it. I can certainly feel it.

 

[Moonlight]

Goddammit, I think I missed out on Acoylte body gear by leaving too soon. I hit need at the end of the dungeon, waited for a bit, assumed I'd receive it, and left.

Now I've gotta do this dungeon on repeat until it's up for roll again. -_-

 

[Qvoth]

wtfast works and it's free
remember leatrix latency fix as well

 

[dcye]

I can only assume WARs LB3 sucks. I know I've seen it before but I can't remember it at all.

WAR LB3 is one of the best of the lot IMO. Smashes the ground and creates a wall out of smashed rock.

You aren't carrying two dead people through titan in level synced gear. What are you even talking about here? Of course gearing matters.

Uh we were doing this at i80 so fuck knows what game you're playing. It's not very easy but if 6 of you are good at the game this is very doable.

Long story short. Tabris wants this game to be FFXI, because of rose tinted glasses, not being able to move on, etc

This isn't even close to true, especially in this instance. For someone who's copped endless shit in here from people mis-construing your arguments you'd think you of all people would actually read and understand his points, regardless of your thoughts on him as a person. He's offering his thoughts on how to actually improve the quality of a playerbase which is largely fucking garbage at the game. Whether you agree with his ideas, tldr'ing his argument in that is disingenuous and flat out wrong.

 

[suzu]

Goddammit, I think I missed out on Acoylte body gear by leaving too soon. I hit need at the end of the dungeon, waited for a bit, assumed I'd receive it, and left.

Now I've gotta do this dungeon on repeat until it's up for roll again. -_-

Heya, thanks for using the recruit code!
Since you've subbed, you should've received some silver chocobo feathers at the moogle mail. You can trade a feather for an acolyte robe (among other things) from the calamity salvager npc.

 

[Hasemo]

New Letter from the Producer:

Letter from the Producer, LXI (08/27/2015)
Hello again to all you FFXIVers! Yoshi-P here. Today, we celebrate the second anniversary of FFXIV’s rebirth!

Since our official commencement of service on August 27, 2013, we’ve brought the Patch 2.X storyline to its conclusion, held fan festivals worldwide (which had long been a personal goal of mine), and released our long-awaited first expansion, Heavensward.

We owe it all to you, the Warriors of Light, who have supported our development and operation teams throughout these endeavors. I cannot fully express how grateful I am to our players—thank you all so much! I hope each and every one of you will continue to enjoy FINAL FANTASY XIV for many more years to come.

It’s been two months since the launch of Heavensward, and about one month since we added Alexander: Gordias (Savage). And now it seems there are two companies which have cleared the final area! The first to claim victory was Elysium, on August 24, at 9:08 AM (JST). Only fourteen hours later, the members of Lucrezia also cleared the final area.

We were concerned about the level of difficulty, especially the third and fourth areas. But these top-notch free companies showed our battle team that they were up to the challenge. In their rush to be first, both FCs demonstrated exceptional teamwork and individual skill, and I would like to congratulate them on their accomplishments. (We saw the Elysium clear video, and when they cried out at the end it was amazing!)

As you know, for 3.0 raids, we’ve implemented both normal and Savage versions. We plan to continue designing raids while paying close attention to your feedback so that as many players as possible can experience this content.

Also, our anniversary event, the Rising, will kick off today. This year’s Rising has something of an “old-school Final Fantasy” feel to it, so you might find it a little different from the seasonal events we’ve had so far. I hope you all enjoy it (there was some talk about whether or not we should make certain NPCs attackable...)

Until next time, at the 2015 Tokyo Game Show! See you soon!

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

VPN helps minimize mudra lag.

I'm on PS4.

Also just got Armor Crush. A lot more useful than the Smokebomb I got last time.

Tried it out in Solm Al and I rarely had to recast Huton (whenever there was a lull inbetween fights).

 

[Moonlight]

Heya, thanks for using the recruit code!
Since you've subbed, you should've received some silver chocobo feathers at the moogle mail. You can trade a feather for an acolyte robe (among other things) from the calamity salvager npc.

Haha, yeah, wound up caving and completed the set with them. Can't say I regret it, since it looks great.

And thanks for offering the code in the first place.

 

[Squishy3]

(there was some talk about whether or not we should make certain NPCs attackable...)

oh god what FF villains are going to be present

 

[Unknown Soldier]

If the second, not at all. Fake Bahamut was a failed summoning just like any other primal that gets summoned. It's nothing like the real thing.

Spoiler

Much as with the Heroic Spirits, there is no "real thing" in this case because you're summoning something which is already dead or never even actually existed in one case. The whole point of Summoning the Primals is you are Summoning what you hope for them to be. What they turn out as depends entirely on what you desire during the Summoning.

This makes me wonder why Summoners in this game can only manage to summon the Egis, I guess they all didn't hope enough.

 

[Frumix]

Oh Soken.

http://i.imgur.com/kFwKvT5.jpg

Spoiler

And there it is. Confirmation of 3.1 trial.
http://i.imgur.com/SNB58W1.jpg

 

[Munba]

This event is amazing! ..old FF feel. :O

 

[MarcoZombieCannon]

This event is amazing! ..old FF feel. :O

I'm totally digging it. (Plus seeing more people on one place than I ever have on my server, lol)

 

[hamchan]

oh god what FF villains are going to be present

Moogles. (I don't know but Moogles are the main villains of this game I'd say)