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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark

I hate healing Dark Knights. They're usually very squishy which means I'm stuck trying to micromanage them. Maybe it's just a gear thing but it's happened often enough for me to notice. All will be fine until their cooldowns run out and then suddenly they're losing 30-40% health a tick on medium sized pulls in dungeons.

Other tanking jobs don't seem as bad //shrug.

It's tricky, I guess. I'm not a career tank by any stretch of the imagination or a particular specialist in DRK, so what follows may be garbage: it's pretty similar to PLD, but you have blind/parry/evasion/Reprisal instead of a shield, and a lot of DF DRKs don't seem use them proactively short of Reprisal procs. I see a lot of people complaining that blind/evasion is dumb because it reduces the effectiveness of Blood Price, but Blood Price doesn't last forever - I usually try to eat up my excess MP from Blood Price using Abyssal Drain with Shadowskin up, charge a Dark Arts when Blood Price is about to run out, then throw out a DA Dark Passenger for blind and DA Dark Dance for evasion/parry. If I have the MP, DA Soul Eater. I don't pull it off perfectly all the time, because I'm bad, but it's what I try to go for, anyway. I have no idea how healers see it because I mostly tank dungeons for LS friends who won't tell me if I'm being shit to preserve my dignity.

edit: I didn't discuss stuff like Foresight/Awareness/Convalescence since all the tanks get them.
 

Sakura

Member
It's this way because originally Impulse Drive had a positional requirement, which meant it was only spammable sometimes.

Then they removed that (and I think they also buffed it), not realizing they unintentionally made it better than using all the rest of your moves until at least level 26 when you get Full Thrust. So instead of worrying about balance while leveling, they just threw their hands up in the air.

If you're worried about useless abilities, the only ones useless at max level are Piercing Talon (the TP cost is generally too high to consider using this) and Feint (because other people can apply Slow and the move sucks)

edit: also, save yourself humiliation and don't cross-class Fracture, it's a DPS loss once you get your full rotation.
Thanks.
Just thought it was weird because I have these other abilities but there didn't seem to be any point in doing anything other than spam impulse drive.
Does slow suck though? I was using it off and on in a dungeon but wasn't sure if it really made any difference.
Also last time I will use the controller to play in a dungeon I think...
 

WolvenOne

Member
Thanks.
Just thought it was weird because I have these other abilities but there didn't seem to be any point in doing anything other than spam impulse drive.
Does slow suck though? I was using it off and on in a dungeon but wasn't sure if it really made any difference.
Also last time I will use the controller to play in a dungeon I think...

The Lancer's slow debuff is mostly useful for soloing overworld content. It slows down the rate of attacks for an enemy, so it's easier for Lancers and Dragoons to effectively tank something themselves.

I'd be kinda curious to know if that effect worked on any raid bosses though.
 

IvorB

Member
Yep; if it procs it places a debuff on the attacker. It's pretty handy if you drop it early enough to give it a chance to proc.

Okay that's better actually. I can drop that on my tank pet when soloing FATE bosses and the like. It's not actually a protection skill but a round about way of debuffing the enemy, which is cool.

I use this macro to avoid fumbling with targets:

/micon {Eye for an Eye}
/ac {Eye for an Eye} <tt>

It applies E4E to your target's target, which will traditionally be the tank if you're targeting a mob. Curly brackets indicate auto-translation phrases.

Woah! Macros, man. Think I'll probably stick to the old fashioned way but thanks for the tip. :)
 

BadRNG

Member
You're wording is indicative of the problem/reason why the devs won't do it. Call out? That implies negative. Trying to teach or help? That implies positive. Most of the people calling for this stuff subconsciously think this way whether they like it or not. Virtually nobody is going to say "hey, your DPS is actually a bit low, can you show me your rotation" in a dungeon. Then go "okay, why don't you try this". And take the time to stop and teach them in the middle of a dungeon. They're going to say something to the effect of "git gud".
It was intended to be a negative because it was referring to the fact that tanks/healers deal with the negativity all the time when they are performing poorly. DPS seemly get a pass because "WHATEVA I DO WHAT I WANT" and as long as they are having fun, no one else matters apparently. That was the main issue I had with your original post. I'm not saying DPS meters will suddenly make people nice and helpful either, just that it won't dramatically change the toxicity that is already there and (more importantly) it offers feedback so people know how they are performing. I know people on PS4 who ask me for parses either after a fight or even just to watch them on a training dummy, that is not a hoop anyone should have to jump through to improve.

A lot of the bad DPS I see have basic rotational issues, but there is currently no way for them to know that without someone saying something. For some people the situation you are talking about could even be avoided because they will see their numbers compared to others and think "hey, maybe I'm doing something wrong?". It might be naive but I think, in general, most players aren't choosing to be bad. They just have zero feedback and don't know any better.

Exactly, I can count on both hands the number of times I've seen people go out of their way to explain something and not just be a flat out complete jackass. DPS meters are the last thing this game needs. I'm more than happy to deal with bad dps and pick up the slack as a tank then deal with the shit storm caused by DPS meters.
Right, people are already complete jackasses, how will introducing DPS meters make this any worse. Meter use is already incredibly prevalent, and people will (and do) get kicked for bad dps already. At least with an official meter people can see for themselves and know they need to improve, and have the tools to improve themselves.

Should we remove aggro bars because then people can see if a tank isn't holding aggro well? Should we remove ilevels? Should we remove inspecting gear in general so people can't make judgement on what gear you are wearing? Why are parsers the evil line that cannot be crossed. They are a far more useful tool than at least two of those things I mentioned. DPS are so goddamn thin skinned, I don't get it. Healers get blamed whenever someone dies, tanks get blamed whenever they lose aggro, why do DPS get a pass? And why do the ones that don't want a pass get no real feedback on how they are performing when healers/tanks do. It's just a poor system as is.

A parse only for yourself would be an ok compromise, but seriously I see nothing wrong with a full group one.
 

Arkeband

Banned
i still use fracture at lv58
rip me

ya dun goofed

Foresight (helps with incoming physical damage),
Bloodbath (thousands of self-healing over time)
Second Wind (thousands of instant self-healing)
Internal Release (+10% crit)
Mercy Stroke (off-GCD DPS move)

Optionally you can swap Foresight with Mantra if the fight you're progressing on has no physical damage and your healers need a (small) boost, but leveling a MNK to 42 is a pain in the ass.
 
Do we think a3/4s nerfs are coming in 3.1 or a later intermediate patch?

They cant be happy with their retention numbers.


I made myself new personal goals. Get the other healer and Devil Gunlady to talk in mumble. I finally broke down the new tank last night. I want to hear everyone laughing goddammit.
 

Arkeband

Banned
Do we think a3/4s nerfs are coming in 3.1 or a later intermediate patch?

They cant be happy with their retention numbers.


I made myself new personal goals. Get the other healer and Devil Gunlady to talk in mumble. I finally broke down the new tank last night. I want to hear everyone laughing goddammit.

I don't know if they'd nerf it in the regular sense of the word, but easing certain mechanics that suck because of the netcode (like Digititis debuffs not transferring) I could see being tweaked.

I guess that would be a nerf in the way Twintania mechanics being no longer borked to hell was a nerf.
 

Ken

Member
Do we think a3/4s nerfs are coming in 3.1 or a later intermediate patch?

They cant be happy with their retention numbers.

Never, and I don't think nerfs will bring a significant amount of people back since most quit for other reasons I'd imagine.

I don't know if they'd nerf it in the regular sense of the word, but easing certain mechanics that suck because of the netcode (like Digititis debuffs not transferring) I could see being tweaked.

I guess that would be a nerf in the way Twintania mechanics being no longer borked to hell was a nerf.

I don't know if they'll ever do that either cause they never did for T12 Brand pass, T8 tether intercept, T2 rot pass, and more I'm probably forgetting. To alleviate just make sure one person doesn't move I guess.
 
I feel your pain :)

Huh?

Never, and I don't think nerfs will bring a significant amount of people back since most quit for other reasons I'd imagine.



I don't know if they'll ever do that either cause they never did for T12 Brand pass, T8 tether intercept, T2 rot pass, and more I'm probably forgetting. To alleviate just make sure one person doesn't move I guess.

I dont expect a mechanic nerf honestly, but maybe tone down the HP totals so that a single death/debuff/unfortunate stun, isnt a pure death sentence anymore.
Oh both melees got +/- tethers on the second set and the adds arent near them? RIP
 

Ken

Member
Huh?



I dont expect a mechanic nerf honestly, but maybe tone down the HP totals so that a single death/debuff/unfortunate stun, isnt a pure death sentence anymore.
Oh both melees got +/- tethers on the second set and the adds arent near them? RIP

You'd be way more likely to get mechanics nerf than an enrage nerf lol.
 

scy

Member
Do we think a3/4s nerfs are coming in 3.1 or a later intermediate patch?

They cant be happy with their retention numbers.

I don't really think these two things are that related. Nor do I really think they'll nerf that content much more than more gear will do.

I dont expect a mechanic nerf honestly, but maybe tone down the HP totals so that a single death/debuff/unfortunate stun, isnt a pure death sentence anymore.
Oh both melees got +/- tethers on the second set and the adds arent near them? RIP

Not a single one of our clears has been super clean by any means and we still beat enrage despite a death or me letting Garuda die horribly way too often. The level of perfection needed to beat this fight is a bit overblown at this point. It'll be even less of a deal come 3.1 and the ilvl bump across the board. I just can't see them doing much else to A3S that i210 left side won't resolve already.

As for the tether mishap, we run one melee and get that situation pretty often. If you're running double melee, you most likely have access to up to 5 sources of reliable silence/stun (6 if we factor Holy) for 4 targets. There's quite some time between Ferrofluid resolving and Mucilage cast starting. It's a bad case, yeah, but not impossible.
 

iammeiam

Member
I dont expect a mechanic nerf honestly, but maybe tone down the HP totals so that a single death/debuff/unfortunate stun, isnt a pure death sentence anymore.

This (making enrage and DPS checks less strict, not reducing values) is going to happen in 3.1 just by virtue of non-A3S i210 left side and I'm guessing a relic over i200. It's possible albeit unlikely to overcome on a first clear now. The crazy groups that pushed world first were 10+ iLevels under where we are now; 3.1 i210 will put 20 iLevels between the first clears and people, which is a ton of gear and will make enrage and HoP much much less of a deal. Mechanics will probably remain the biggest problem.

Oh both melees got +/- tethers on the second set and the adds arent near them? RIP

This has been survivable for a while, although one of the trickiest parts of adds to get down. Slows 4 life and coordination.
 

Cmagus

Member
They released the Heavensward ep vol 2 on iTunes now, 5 Songs this time.

Tracklist:

A Cold Wind - Masayoshi Soken (main menu music)
Lost in the Clouds - Masayoshi Soken (Sea of Clouds field music)
Safety in Numbers - Masayoshi Soken (Ok,Zundu/Moghome Villiage Theme)
Ink Long Dry - Masayoshi Soken (Great Grubal Library)
Ominous Prognisticks - Masayoshi Soken (Boss Theme)


Heavensward ep Vol 2
 

Sifl

Member
I just had a 40 min Neverreap. The healer asked not do big pulls because he was under geared so I knew it'd be slow, but I have no idea what the Blm was doing. Most of the time he had less enmity then the healer, and I occasionally looked over at him standing there doing nothing.
 

WolvenOne

Member
They released the Heavensward ep vol 2 on iTunes now, 5 Songs this time.

Heavensward ep Vol 2

I noticed that, alas, I still do not have an iTunes account at the moment. >_<;;

I just had a 40 min Neverreap. The healer asked not do big pulls because he was under geared so I knew it'd be slow, but I have no idea what the Blm was doing. Most of the time he had less enmity then the healer, and I occasionally looked over at him standing there doing nothing.

I wonder why I never see these slow runs.
 

Sifl

Member
Still doesn't explain why. I refuse to believe he leveled up a blm, got eso gear with it and not know how to use Blizzard.
 

Ken

Member
Still doesn't explain why. I refuse to believe he leveled up a blm, got eso gear with it and not know how to use Blizzard.

1. He genuinely doesn't know even though he got fed a new skill once every 5 levels, shattering your idealized world where skills are doled out to players at a snails pace so they could learn better.

2. He played you guys like a fiddle for Esoterics.
 

Tabris

Member
I can almost guarantee that there's a couple BLM's out there that only casted Blizzard II from level 12 to 60. FATE grinding leads to a lot of clueless players.
 

Sifl

Member
Imagine if Blm started at 30, he would'nt know how to use fire. Him getting spoonfed skills let him get this far, thus proving my method is better
kappa.png
.
 

Cmagus

Member
I noticed that, alas, I still do not have an iTunes account at the moment. >_<;;

I'm tempted to get the two eps because all I have now is the crappy dat mine rips which aren't great sound quality but I also wish they could release a full cd because I rather not have to buy 20 of these small 5 song eps.

I probably will though the sound quality on the iTunes song is so much better than the rips.
 

Ken

Member
Imagine if Blm started at 30, he would'nt know how to use fire. Him getting spoonfed skills let him get this far, thus proving my method is better
kappa.png
.

Someone secretly likes 40 minute Neverreaps.

Also lttp on yesterday's Training Ground talk but I don't think it'll be as effective as people hope for.

If it's test based, Square will probably add a lenient enough window for "sufficient" performance that people can still slip through by doing stuff totally wrong. And also devs will never suggest specific rotations to people which feeds back to them having to be lenient with scoring.

It's also probably a giant headache to come up with tests for all roles.

If anything they should just make it pump out standardized parse numbers that can be compared with ACT so console plebeians that want to parse themselves finally can, and give up trying to get 100% of the population interested in self-improvement through TG.
 

Sifl

Member
Hopefully it teaches us dragoons to effectively stand in as many aoe's as possible to wind up on the floor quicker, and then how to use jump in them in case ur reflexes try to move you out of them.
 
so overwhelmed right now. Doing story quests as a level 40 paladin/gladiator.

Any tips on what I should be doing? What the main attacks I should be using in dungeons?

Have not played in so long and theres so many things I dont get. Most of the time I cant even tell whats happening because there is so much shit on the screen lol
 
There already is a comprehensive discussion on would parsers do anything, positive or negative, to the game if introduced over on the OF (gets better near the end, beginning is typical stuff):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/264488-The-issue-nobody-wants-to-address

There also is a debate about the impact of implementing parsers on reddit that's pretty recent, too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3ol0oo/ffxiv_parsing_is_banning_it_actually_preventing/

Most of the arguments against parsing actually do not hinge on what I said earlier, that it would negatively impact the attitude of the game. Rather, opponents say parsers wouldn't solve the problem that pro-parsers are whining about - lazy/incompetent/bad DPS in pug content.
 

scy

Member
I don't think anyone is really expecting parsers being prevalent to "fix" players. At the very least, it's worth considering due to the game being so prevalent with DPS checks. No feedback available to all console players on this front makes it a bit weird.
 
I don't think anyone is really expecting parsers being prevalent to "fix" players. At the very least, it's worth considering due to the game being so prevalent with DPS checks. No feedback available to all console players on this front makes it a bit weird.

I do sympathize with the arguments from those that say if the devs make content with DPS checks, then why is there no way to get feedback on if your DPS is meeting the check or not other than wiping/you failed. The sentiment of "don't make DPS walls if you won't let people see their DPS numbers."
 

AwShucks

Member
Still doesn't explain why. I refuse to believe he leveled up a blm, got eso gear with it and not know how to use Blizzard.

I'm not the greatest BLM (though it is my only class/job along with THM of course) but this made even me facepalm. I cannot imagine the pain of waiting to get MP back without casting some sort of Blizzard.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
I do sympathize with the arguments from those that say if the devs make content with DPS checks, then why is there no way to get feedback on if your DPS is meeting the check or not other than wiping/you failed. The sentiment of "don't make DPS walls if you won't let people see their DPS numbers."
You know Yoshi-P would just say something along the lines of "Death is the intended feedback" followed by a couple hais.
 

Croyles

Member
There already is a comprehensive discussion on would parsers do anything, positive or negative, to the game if introduced over on the OF (gets better near the end, beginning is typical stuff):
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/264488-The-issue-nobody-wants-to-address

There also is a debate about the impact of implementing parsers on reddit that's pretty recent, too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/3ol0oo/ffxiv_parsing_is_banning_it_actually_preventing/

Most of the arguments against parsing actually do not hinge on what I said earlier, that it would negatively impact the attitude of the game. Rather, opponents say parsers wouldn't solve the problem that pro-parsers are whining about - lazy/incompetent/bad DPS in pug content.

It would only "fix" bad dps as much as bad healers and bad tanks already have visual clues as to when they fuck up. Now there are still plenty bad healers and tanks out there but you know, something is better than nothing.
 

Sifl

Member
I'm not the greatest BLM (though it is my only class/job along with THM of course) but this made even me facepalm. I cannot imagine the pain of waiting to get MP back without casting some sort of Blizzard.
I've seen some pretty stupid shit, but this was by far the worst. I guess Ken is right, hypothetically you playing a class from 1-60 should AT LEAST give you basic knowledge of how to play it, even if you can't figure out the optimal rotation on your own. This blm apparently proves this is not the case.
 
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