It can't be a step up if there's no Amon's hat.
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| Raiders of the Void Ark
- Thread starter Trojita
- Start date
The Moogle quests were not story quests drama!
Also, glad that they made Krile the best race for maximum cuteness.
One piece of gear does not redeem an entire set. XD
Russian hat > Amon's hat
Maybe if you just tried to not let it get gross and dusty...
You're disgusting.
irfaanator
Banned
you make passes one minute and burns the next. not doing yourself any favors bro
Nah, I've always dropped burns on people who like Amon's Marshmallow.
irfaanator
Banned
drama doesnt wear the amon hat
I like the second armor set from the right. Wondering whether it's DRG or MNK gear.
The ugly skirt probably goes to DRG...
Wrong.
Cloud of Darkness wasn't exactly faceroll so maybe they've learned? I still want to see some large scale content that is decently organized.
Also why does all the dungeon tank gear end up being gowns/dresses?
tiggerkiddo
Member
Unless they give me some good rewards for it, I think I'll just run it a few times and just call it good.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I think Warrior has the worst looking Eso set among the melee classes at least.
Interesting pull during Fractal today. Was this wipe my fault? I made a short clip of about 1 minute. I think they blamed me for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbxO3QDr-Hg
I've only ever been in one group that attempted something like it before, but that one turned out alright. I'm not sure sure how I could have reasonably healed everyone in this situation though. I purposely tried to leave my healing as late as possible because I didn't want to agro the new enemies but I was forced to anyway (luckily tank took control somewhat quickly and for a bit it looked okay).
I had no idea he was gonna pull this big so I was caught off guard a bit. I probably could have used benediction and Asylum, but I wanted to swiftcast a Medica II quickly... //shrug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbxO3QDr-Hg
I've only ever been in one group that attempted something like it before, but that one turned out alright. I'm not sure sure how I could have reasonably healed everyone in this situation though. I purposely tried to leave my healing as late as possible because I didn't want to agro the new enemies but I was forced to anyway (luckily tank took control somewhat quickly and for a bit it looked okay).
I had no idea he was gonna pull this big so I was caught off guard a bit. I probably could have used benediction and Asylum, but I wanted to swiftcast a Medica II quickly... //shrug.
I really dislike that pull because of the 2x Furore and 1x Baleful AoE mobs, as well as the awkwardness of picking up the mobs that "spawn" from the tubes.
Tank goofed by wasting Rampart time with HG and not having any CDs after except FoF.
Besides looking like he's undergeared, Mono Chroma pulled aggro and died, which sort of killed your chances at getting that pack down in a timely matter. Also seemed like the tank could have managed his CD's better. I've only had a tank do that pull once before on Fractal and he warned me before hand to put shields up on him.
I rarely see people pull those two packs together and it almost never goes well.
You could probably salvage it, E4E between the two packs once you see where that is going, Tetra earlier, PoM + DS as you're running and go to town with C2 and Medica, maybe Benedicton the stupid summoner and pray the tank holds aggro.
It's also a good habit to put Stoneskin up on the tank right at the end of each pull. Gives you a bit of a breathing room without drawing aggro from the next pack.
cultureculture
Member
Looks like it was on the tank and the DPS to me.
- Tank stood around taking damage before popping a cooldown, wasted a little Rampart time during Hallowed Ground, didn't use anything after Rampart. (Edit: Also, according to his Lodestone page, he was doing that in Yasha gear. :V)
- Summoner used Tri-Disaster during the pull, perhaps not quite aware how much damage it is. Not going to be easy for the tank to take back while he's corralling everything else.
- I have no idea what the black mage was doing: Blizzard 3 at full MP, Blizzard 3 -> Fire 1... I don't expect that pack would have died quickly even if the tank didn't mess up. With a pack that size, he should have been AOEing anyway.
I guess you probably could have got a couple of Holys in during Hallowed Ground but it looked like you were stuck struggling trying to get the tank back up and he probably could have at least thrown out a Convalescence if it was up.
Why was black mage not AOEing I wonder?
Soooo... any summoners here that can explain why everyone uses Garuda? Ifrit's skills do more damage and don't feature an annoying knock back. Plus Ifrit looks way cooler.
Why aren't you zoomed out lol I can barely see anything
I usually leave my healing as late as possible but if this tank was starting off the second batch with only 40% health he probably needed heals before that. Although if he wasn't using enough cooldowns he would be mowed down in the end anyway.
Probably best bet while the tank was in between packs was Eye for an Eye plus a Regen and actually hanging back pretty far and hoping you're not in range to generate aggro. That's all silly trick stuff that doesn't always work though.
Switch that Surecast off your main bar for Eye for an Eye.
But he popped Hallowed immediately so my process would have been dump Asylum on the ground, Divine Seal > Regen > Medica 2 > Tetra > Cure 2 > Cleric Stance > Swiftcast > Holy... At this point you figure out if the tank needs heals and stance back or if you can pull off another Holy or an Aero 3.
Everyone could have probably done better, but speaking specifically as WHM your mistake was trying to get him to full in the initial moments when it was probably better tactics to get your ticking heals up during his Hallowed time and then juice him back up (assuming the dps didn't die during that time). You used Cure 2 when you had Divine Seal and then opted to use Cure 1 when you didn't have Divine Seal, which is sort of bad. After you cast Medica 2 and all of the mobs were green on you, you stopped to heal yourself instead of the tank even though you weren't getting hit. Presence of Mind could have also helped shave a bit of casting time off.
Stoneskin's a shield. Usually when the last mob of a pack is in its dying throes and I know another pack is coming up next, I'm already casting Stoneskin on the tank. Because they're impatient bums that don't wait for a Stoneskin.
cultureculture
Member
The basic reasons are that Garuda gives you Contagion, requires less positioning, and doesn't have to travel to a mob to attack it, so she's easier to use. Contagion is really the main thing, though: Dreadwyrm Trance, Tri-Disaster, and Contagion is a great combination.
People usually keep her on Obey to keep her from using the knockback and to manually use Contagion at the right time.
Edit: If you haven't read this guide, it's pretty good and has a rundown of the difference between Ifrit and Garuda and their respective pros and cons.
Taa for the responses. I know I made some mistakes but in this case I didn't feel like I was soley to blame for the wipe, like they might have suggested.
Admittedly I've ignored PoM a lot, so I need to work on that. It's just one of those things that I try to save until I really need it, but by that time I've forgotten completely. Thanks! Like I said that was the second time I've seen that pull attempted, so next time will hopefully go a bit better.
But thanks for the tips. That's very helpful! I will try to keep this stuff in mind for the future.
Also about the Cure (I) thing. That was me probably thinking too much about MP as I was burning through fast trying to catch up... When I activated divine seal, I switched back to it to try and stretch things out a bit more. As soon as it ran out however, I went back to spamming (II)s. A mistake on my part, but that was my reasoning!
You're right! I actually almost always use swiftcast and Stoneskin II as we're running from mob to mob. This time however I just didn't bother as normally there would be only three or four enemies in the pull and that's easily manageable. As to why I didn't use it once I realised what was happening, well the plan was to stabilise the tank and get off a couple of holy bombs quickly... Unfortunately that didn't happen
Admittedly I've ignored PoM a lot, so I need to work on that. It's just one of those things that I try to save until I really need it, but by that time I've forgotten completely. Thanks! Like I said that was the second time I've seen that pull attempted, so next time will hopefully go a bit better.
I only zoom out for boss fights. I like seeing the animations when fighting mobs of enemies
But thanks for the tips. That's very helpful! I will try to keep this stuff in mind for the future.Also about the Cure (I) thing. That was me probably thinking too much about MP as I was burning through fast trying to catch up... When I activated divine seal, I switched back to it to try and stretch things out a bit more. As soon as it ran out however, I went back to spamming (II)s. A mistake on my part, but that was my reasoning!
Okay cool. That guide gives a good run down. It seems like there is leeway to make a choice between the two which is good. I think I'm gonna stick with Ifrit for now for dungeons and bring out Garuda where there might be movement issues. I don't really see a huge benefit from contagion for where I am right now. Plus Ifrit is just so much cooler.
On another note, I really don't like how this game does random obscure sh*t in the background that's not explained ingame. According to that guide the ingame damage numbers for Ifrit and Garuda's skills aren't really honest. That type of info should be in the game without me having to read some Google doc to find out. Anyway, that's my grumble for the day.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Think I saw the tank use two cooldowns. No sentinel or bulwark, no convalescanernas.
All on the tank here I think.
I only use HG if I'm going to die during a pull.
All on the tank here I think.
I only use HG if I'm going to die during a pull.
HylianScribe
Member
During a pull, if a Tank starts taking enough damage that they go below around 80-70% before stopping, re-up Stone Skin. It's hate generation is very low and any decent tank will steal it right back if you somehow manage to pull threat off a mob. If they dip to anywhere below 60% and are still moving, you need to to give some sort of heal. It's best to throw out that heal before they grab next mobs and have current mobs on aggro - this won't steal aggro (usually) so long as tank hit all the mobs with something (Flash, Shield Lob, Tomahawk, etc). The instant they stop, heal them up and get regen on them. You then must decide if you're going to go hard on DPS or if you need to focus more on healing with minimal DPS support. Indecision in the early part of when the tank stops and it's time to fight is likely to end up costing you dearly, since it's the time where it's most important as a healer that you be casting stuff and not being idle. When there are fewer mobs left, you can have the luxury of being a bit more lax.
So in this instance, you probably should have re-upped stone skin earlier on in the pull, and thrown out at least one cure as he got close to stopping. However, I can't stress enough that the instant the tank popped Hallowed Ground, you needed to stop healing them.
As for the tank, it's odd to me he did not pop a single CD until he was near death on that big pull and then that CD was rampart ... So maybe they weren't expecting to be so low on HP? If it was planned, there was no reason to burn rampart. Their HG pop seemed more like a reaction to "oh shit, about to die" than planned out.
When it was clear the tank was safe for the time being, and you saw the party had lower HP and was still taking damage, you needed to switch over to healing up the party.
Instead, your Cure II on a tank in HG is interrupted, and then you opt to cast it again on them. This wasn't necessary. You then throw out another Cure II on the tank to top them off. Really unnecessary.
At this point, both you and the SMN are below 50% HP. The SMN was still taking damage, and they take another hit to bring them into the 2K HP range. You then overheal the tank with another Cure II. You should at least have had that Cure II go to the SMN. Not sure if it was tunnel vision maybe or panic, but you throw out 3 straight Cure II casts to a tank that's invincible while party members are taking damage.
You then burn Swiftcast + Medica II, but it's too late and the SMN dies. If you had done medica II when the tank popped HG and dropped asylum, you would have made things a bit easier on yourself here. You should have at least been healing up the SMN and yourself while the tank was safe.
Despite burning your Swiftcast and being down a dps, you could have possibly recovered if you popped Presence of Mind and tried to raise the SMN. You could have given yourself some breathing room if you had HoTs up on the tank and had dropped asylum, and you also had Benediction up -- I would have gambled on a raise and spamming that Ben button on the tank during the cast. Basically hoping the tank can stay alive long enough so you could get up SMN and then instantly top them off with Ben and go back into healing the tank normally. The tank could have done you some favors by popping every other CD they had left. The pop the one that blocks a single physical attack, but no Sentinel, no Convalescence, no Bloodbath, no Foresight, no Awareness, no Bulwark.
After topping yourself off, which wasn't necessary, you switch to healing the tank as they're getting slammed by all the mobs.
As a WHM, you're taught "spam Cure II" is bad since you want to Cure I as much to proc freecure, but if the tank is losing HP faster than your Cure I casts can keep them up, you need to switch to Cure II spam. Your MP was fine at that point, so you should have at least been Cure II spamming....
But with a DPS down and the mobs not even all close to being dead, the moment your SMN died and you didn't have swiftcast anymore, it was GG. You would not have been able to keep up the heals on the tank as you would have either burned through your MP before the adds all died or even Cure II spam wouldn't have been enough to keep the tank up as they were getting pummeled by so many mobs.
But one thing I will point out that did you no favors, is you're having pretty decent latency issues. It certainly contributed to the wipe.
So what I would have done from the start:
Given a stoneskin to the tank during the pull between groups of mobs. When the tank stopped, dropped asylum and put regen on the tank. If the tank was planning to pop HG, I would have gone Cleric Stance - Swift Aero III -> Assize -> PoM -> Holy Spam until HG wore off and tank needed heals at some point. Get out of cleric stance and resume healing tank. During my DPS part, I likely would have taken hate, so at some point after I had hate I would have used Shroud, probably when I was done DPSing and tank's HG was about to wear off. From there, I would have gone back and forth between DPSing if I could and healing up MT. If any DPS were taking damage at that point, throw them Tetra + Regen and spot heal them as needed, though the tank should really be holding hate or stealing it back to get the mob off that DPS.
If the tank wasn't going to pop HG, I would have focused on healing them while trying to weave in an Aero III or Holy (for dps/stun) every now and then.
So, trying to brain storm up some "New Stats," after a discussion yesterday. Figured I'd try to draw you all in on the brainstorming.
Tank Stats The main idea here, is that people should be able to stack up, "tank stats," without upsetting the current meta of Tank's also being damage dealers.
Fortitude: Combines the Magic Defense Stat, Physical Defense, and Determination. I picture this being a very heavily weighted stat, with a low stat budget. There's almost always going to be less Fortitude on a given piece than any other stat.
Parry: Yea, existing stat, but I'd like to change how it works. Instead of merely giving the player a flat 20% ish reduction in damage, it should also proc a status buff that makes the next auto-attack a certain crit. This would turn this into a must have stat for Main Tanks, and give it synergy with the Critical Hit-Rate stat, Sword Oath, and Raw Intuition.
DPS Stats, this I sadly have fewer ideas for, but the game really could use another stat or two, for the sake of gear diversity.
Accuracy: Should act like Crit-Lite when it's above the accuracy cap. Not actually as good as Crit, Determ,or even Skill Speed, but not useless either.
Haste: Bolsters Auto-Attack Rate and potency, also slightly increases the amount of MP/TP you regain per tick after you reach certain thresh-holds. Probably the best stat for increasing your DPS floor, so to speak.
Could use more ideas on the DPS stat front, though of course this is just me brainstorming for funsies.
Tank Stats The main idea here, is that people should be able to stack up, "tank stats," without upsetting the current meta of Tank's also being damage dealers.
Fortitude: Combines the Magic Defense Stat, Physical Defense, and Determination. I picture this being a very heavily weighted stat, with a low stat budget. There's almost always going to be less Fortitude on a given piece than any other stat.
Parry: Yea, existing stat, but I'd like to change how it works. Instead of merely giving the player a flat 20% ish reduction in damage, it should also proc a status buff that makes the next auto-attack a certain crit. This would turn this into a must have stat for Main Tanks, and give it synergy with the Critical Hit-Rate stat, Sword Oath, and Raw Intuition.
DPS Stats, this I sadly have fewer ideas for, but the game really could use another stat or two, for the sake of gear diversity.
Accuracy: Should act like Crit-Lite when it's above the accuracy cap. Not actually as good as Crit, Determ,or even Skill Speed, but not useless either.
Haste: Bolsters Auto-Attack Rate and potency, also slightly increases the amount of MP/TP you regain per tick after you reach certain thresh-holds. Probably the best stat for increasing your DPS floor, so to speak.
Could use more ideas on the DPS stat front, though of course this is just me brainstorming for funsies.
Eh, you should plan to use Hallowed on whatever the largest pull you're doing for the dungeon (doubly so if the actual pull will get you super low due to the run). It's a good amount of free time for the healer to go into full DPS mode and one of the few perks of having PLD when doing large pulls. Not using it is a pretty big waste.
The big takeaway here should be that your response to the situation was pretty off. Hallowed going out is the perfect time to set up all your Regens and to prolong the "no damage" time as long as you can via Holy stun. WHM (and Diurnal AST) get a lot of mileage out getting their Regens up and having them deal with the bulk of the damage. Lack of cooldowns on the tank is a thing but that should cut into your DPS time and how long you can sustain the pull. This was more a situation of going into spamming Cure on the tank before doing any of the setup or using the majority of your kit.
Haha oh god. Feeling pretty bad about posting this video now! D: Suppose it's all a learning experience so thanks for taking the time to write this out. Really appreciated.
That was just a really messy situation and I think normally I'm not as terrible. There was a bit of panic there and I think a big part of it is not really knowing much about tanking. I honestly didn't notice HG, for instance. I wish the game taught you more about other class abilities... I mean there are 3 tank jobs and they all play differently. As a healer I feel lost trying to decipher the buff icons. Seems like tanks barely ever use them too. My Cure II when the tank was already topped off was more in response to that and the fact that I'm an Australian playing on US servers. I really need to precast a lot and I was expecting him to take damage at that point. Won't deny that healing myself when I lost agro was a complete waste however.
Maybe I'll get a group and practise some bigger pulls a bit. Just to get more comfortable with it all. Only been healing a couple of months, after all!
Nah. Most of this stuff is learned in the fire. I didn't "get good" until I had to roar through Wanderer's Palace speedruns without a choice. There are other places where you can crib things.
For instance the reason to do the Medica 2 in the "Asylum > Divine Seal > Regen > Medica 2" sequence I suggested has less to do with healing the dps and more to do with Medica 2 simply being another heal over time on the tank. Plopping 3 HoTs on the tank gives you a window in which you can dps while heals are still going off on the tank. Pre-Heavensward I did Regen + Medica 2. Where did I crib this from? PvP of all places lol
Granted Medica 2 generates some aggro but that's when the tank has to get good
Sometimes realizing the thing is going to blow up and not work is also okay. If you're healing to the point where you're out of MP in a mob pull, and you have used both your Assize and your Shroud of Saints, then it's definitely the dps that are bad.
HylianScribe
Member
I should show you a video of me healing circa 2013. Or any vide of me playing SCH. You would probably laugh at it. You just have to keep playing and learning how to play each situation better. Takes time. And remember, so long as you clear/survive, it doesn't matter if it was sloppy or optimal. It's easy to critique something in hindsight, it's way different when you're in the moment.