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[BadRNG]

There's a difference though because it's not done in a way that makes it interesting, and most of the focus of the class is actually on doing DPS. See healers have a lot of heals, most of their focus is on healing(they have a few damage spells too, but they're very boring and the DPS rotation of a healer is generally do all dots > spam nuke, no proc, no cooldowns, no combos, it's a minor aspect).

On the other hand, BRD/MCH is basically entirely about the DPS aspect, with a couple of buttons you can press once when you need to refill bars for people, and then it happens over a period of time. If the bard combos had buffs/debuffs linked to them, if they literally had songs combos or whatever and if they were a full blown support with a few damage skills thrown in, people wouldn't really compare them to DPS, but it isn't really the case. They're DPS classes that happen to have vital support abilities slapped on them. But because these abilities are so strong, the entire class is nerfed down to balance it out.

Most of this stuff is all about how the class actually plays, rather than what I was talking about, which is how it's overall role should be perceived. If people are trying to compare them solely to dps then I would argue it is on them regardless of how the class is setup, as how a class plays doesn't really have any baring on why you actually bring it to the group. The MCN/BRD "usefulness" that Sorian talked about is their battery powers, and I don't get why that is looked down upon compared to DPS considering how important that is. The fact that it has DPS cooldowns/mechanics doesn't change anything - it's exactly as you say, it's balanced around the fact it brings support.

If you don't like the healer example you could just as easily look at tanks, as they more or less play like sturdier DPS, but against equally skilled/geared DPS they will generally fall short. Which is fine, because their main reason for being in the group is outside DPS, just like BRD/MCN.

I do think BRD/MCN need some adjustments, they definitely should not be out dpsed by tanks, but being lower than everyone else is fine considering what else they bring to the table. That is part of why the whole BRD stuff is so baffling, they really had them perfect at the end of the 2.xx cycle. They were lowest dps, but not too far and still beat tanks. In return they got freedom of movement and excellent utility. It was all really well balanced.

It's more the amount they give up for the battery effect feels a bit imbalanced. I don't think their regen effects are really strong enough to warrant this whole ~20% worse than the other DPS and THEN lose 15% more to even activate it.

Adjusts to the exact numbers need to be made but the overall intention is what I was talking about, and am generally ok with.

 

[tribal24]

is their any job that's similar to Red mage at later levels?

 

[Rafterman]

It's easier to complain about something without providing a suggestion or solution.

So let me ask you what would YOU do for Side Quests if you were in charge? Keep in my that for an MMO this big you would need to provide well over 300 Different Side Quests AND in accordance to your complain NONE of those are allowed to be mechanically the same Quests.

Because I thought about it and such notion is almost silly to think about because of the limitation within this MMO it's almost impossible to come up with 25 different Quests which are not "mechanically identical quests"

Every one doesn't have to be different, but the variety and quality of the side quests just aren't up to par in this game, especially for a game that prides itself on storytelling. The side quests in ESO, for example, are much more enjoyable and less mundane. FFXIV questing has higher highs but I also has much lower lows. Think Tera lows.

 

[Nibiru]

if square wants me to care about their sidequest storylines, they shouldn't bombard me with literally hundreds of mechanically identical quests.

I'm with you on this.

 

[Hasemo]

It's easier to complain about something without providing a suggestion or solution.

So let me ask you what would YOU do for Side Quests if you were in charge? Keep in my that for an MMO this big you would need to provide well over 300 Different Side Quests AND in accordance to your complain NONE of those are allowed to be mechanically the same Quests.

Because I thought about it and such notion is almost silly to think about because of the limitation within this MMO it's almost impossible to come up with 25 different Quests which are not "mechanically identical quests"

After playing different mmos for about 15 years now, my biggest gripe with HW ones is that they make you go back an forth between the npc and 1/2 locations countless times in one line, making it extremely repetitive.

 

[Haly]

FFXIV was never really good when it came to quest mechanics. Kind of stuck in 2004 on that front.

As for what I'd do if I was quest designer, I'd start ripping off WoW like no tomorrow. They've been really good with quests since Cataclysm, and Draenor introduced a lot of neat quest-based storytelling techniques that's more than just reading text and watching cutscenes. Stuff like running across the zone with a bunch of orc guys laying siege to enemy strongholds with airships and shit.

Quest phasing might be too much on the servers though

 

[Item Box]

FFXIV was never really good when it came to quest mechanics. Kind of stuck in 2004 on that front.

As for what I'd do if I was quest designer, I'd start ripping off WoW like no tomorrow. They've been really good with quests since Cataclysm, and Draenor introduced a lot of neat quest-based storytelling techniques that's more than just reading text and watching cutscenes. Stuff like running across the zone with a bunch of orc guys laying siege to enemy strongholds with airships and shit.

Quest phasing might be too much on the servers though

drama ps3 limitations

 

[Haly]

drama ps3 limitations

nyeeergh

 

[fedexpeon]

Awesome, I wasn't looking forward to leveling another job so early in the game.

But it looks like I should switch back to CNJ as Stone Skin at 34 seems much better than Protect.

Paladin doesn't need any cross skill but Foresight tbh.
And you won't be casting Stoneskin at any level of gameplay, use your time to just level up your PLD.

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

FFXIV was never really good when it came to quest mechanics. Kind of stuck in 2004 on that front.

As for what I'd do if I was quest designer, I'd start ripping off WoW like no tomorrow. They've been really good with quests since Cataclysm, and Draenor introduced a lot of neat quest-based storytelling techniques that's more than just reading text and watching cutscenes. Stuff like running across the zone with a bunch of orc guys laying siege to enemy strongholds with airships and shit.

Quest phasing might be too much on the servers though

That sounds more interesting than what we get with the non-MSQ quests here. Sometimes the lore interests me, but for quite a few quests what they do just isn't interesting enough.

I think it would indeed be better if they had more chains that progress instead of having to do a whole bunch of one off quests.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

Don't get me wrong now I'm not defending the quality of the Side Quests in FF XIV as they are not particularly engaging outside the lore and world building I get by doing them.

I'm not an MMO connoisseur by any means since I have played less than 10 MMOs in my life time so if there's an MMO out there with a similar system and limitations that FF XIV has but it does a better job at Side Questing compare to FF XIV than I'm currently ignorant of it.


This particular complain isn't new and I been reading about it for 2 years now but I have long since accepted that's how things are because if it was within Square-Enix's capability or interest to change that aspect of the game they would have done so a long time ago...especially when they were reworking on the game to relaunch it back in 2.0

 

[Apoptomon]

Collected all the aerial currents in Churning Mists except for

Spoiler

the one from completing The Aery

. Once that's done I can

Spoiler

punt all the moogles off of Sohm Al Summit

, right?
Also, are collectibles the thing to do for levelling gatherer classes?

 

[jorgeton]

One thing that would help side quests is if you got the reward when you completed the quest right there on the spot, Xenoblade style. Would alleviate a slight bit of tedium.

 

[Xion_Stellar]

One thing that would help side quests is if you got the reward when you completed the quest right there on the spot, Xenoblade style. Would alleviate a slight bit of tedium.

Not exactly because if that NPC had a question line you would have to run back to him anyways to accept the next part of the quest line he provides

 

[Azzurri]

Not exactly because if that NPC had a question line you would have to run back to him anyways to accept the next part of the quest line he provides

Then do what WildStar does and once you finish your quest you get the reward and then you get an incoming call from a Com. Instead of a com you could use a crystal that can connect the quest giver through, it's not that hard to implement.
I agree with others, for some reason the side quest and some MSQ are just so boring and feels so sluggish and tedious to do.

Also, ps3 limitations

 

[Cmagus]

After playing different mmos for about 15 years now, my biggest gripe with HW ones is that they make you go back an forth between the npc and 1/2 locations countless times in one line, making it extremely repetitive.

I know you play a lot of PSO2 as do I and one thing I really want is the randomness of the bosses and enemies in the area for quests.

When they finally allow us to use the airship for quests I would love it if you could go to an area with an objective random or not and have the possibility of bosses and rare enemies spawning it makes for some amazing gameplay.

As for normal quests I would much rather like to see less but more meaningful ones. I kind of wish you could have unlocked flying earlier but incorporate that into the quests, I mean knowing the way this game goes we will be returning to these areas down the road so at least unlocking flying now will make that much better.

 

[Erekiddo]

My inventory and both of my retainers inventory was getting absurdly full.

What can I do with gear I don't need anymore and can't sell? Such as WHM weathered and regular day star gear.

Feels dirty to sell it to an npc. Can't convert.

 

[Zomba13]

Then do what WildStar does and once you finish your quest you get the reward and then you get an incoming call from a Com. Instead of a com you could use a crystal that can connect the quest giver through, it's not that hard to implement.

I agree with others, for some reason the side quest and some MSQ are just so boring and feels so sluggish and tedious to do.

We've already got linkpearls. Could just have them use that. Though they would probably be just like Minfillia and call us and ask us to go the Waking Sands just to talk to us some more...

My inventory and both of my retainers inventory was getting absurdly full.

What can I do with gear I don't need anymore and can't sell? Such as WHM weathered and regular day star gear.

Feels dirty to sell it to an npc. Can't convert.

I think you can turn that stuff in at your Grand Company now for seals.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

My inventory and both of my retainers inventory was getting absurdly full.

What can I do with gear I don't need anymore and can't sell? Such as WHM weathered and regular day star gear.

Feels dirty to sell it to an npc. Can't convert.

Turn it into your GC for seals.

 

[docbon]

It's easier to complain about something without providing a suggestion or solution.

So let me ask you what would YOU do for Side Quests if you were in charge? Keep in my that for an MMO this big you would need to provide well over 300 Different Side Quests AND in accordance to your complain NONE of those are allowed to be mechanically the same Quests.

Because I thought about it and such notion is almost silly to think about because of the limitation within this MMO it's almost impossible to come up with 25 different Quests which are not "mechanically identical quests"

Can I just defer to how questing works in The Secret World instead? Fewer in number but more way more in depth, with elements of puzzle solving in addition to combat encounters that don't just have players facerolling against their keyboard to beat. The quests in TSW oozed atmosphere as well.

I'm not saying every single quest needs to be unique either, I'm just saying they shouldn't all feel the same. There's way too many situations with random NPCs who couldn't find anyone on the planet to complete menial tasks besides the warrior of light.

 

[grimmiq]

We've already got linkpearls. Could just have them use that. Though they would probably be just like Minfillia and call us and ask us to go the Waking Sands just to talk to us some more...


I think you can turn that stuff in at your Grand Company now for seals.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure back in 1.0 you would get a new linkpearl for every class and whenever a new quest became available it would start to glow and you would get a call from the guild master to head to them to get your next quest.

 

[Cmagus]

Turn it into your GC for seals.

This is the best thing to do. Plus many of the mats for airship require things like coke so it's good to stock up on those mats. it certainly doesn't take long to fill up on these new dungeons I think I have a lifetime supply of clear prisms and cream yellow dyes lol.

 

[fedexpeon]

Man, felt so good today.
I earned 1M gil today by spending 10mins buying some of the new mats and cornered the market.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I finished the storyline on Saturday.

Spoiler

That last fight was stupid easy. And that final attack, Ultimate End? It was like I was watching a Final Fantasy 7 summon. I was like, "Oh god, this is going to really hurt."

3500 damage.

I also love how he just kinda crumbles after he does it. "No..." He's just flailing around with his sword in disbelief because he's lost.

Very easy, but still pretty satisfying. Already looking forward to the 3.1 storyline. Need to find more Scions (and hopefully keep updating their looks. Both Alphanaud and Y'shtolla look great in their new duds).

Gearing is just as joyless as it usually is. Already sick of both of the new dungeons and I've only been running them for two days.

Time for EX Primals soon!

 

[OsirisBlack]

Bismark Extreme is giving me absolute hell.

 

[docbon]

Bismark Extreme is giving me absolute hell.

Really opens your eyes to how horrible of a grasp some DPS have on their rotations.

 

[OsirisBlack]

Really opens your eyes to how horrible of a grasp some DPS have on their rotations.

Its just one massive cluster after another, If I go SMN then the tank doesn't have a clue how to do a simple mob swap. If I go DRK then the dps cant break the chitin on the first round or kill the serpents before we get nuked. I enjoyed playing without an endgame FC but I may need to start looking.

 

[fedexpeon]

Really opens your eyes to how horrible of a grasp some DPS have on their rotations.

It also opens your eyes on how terribad people are at MMO. They can't position to click on a stationary object for the life of them.
As a tank, I did the dragonkiller and the shield WHILE tanking by timing/stunning the mob because healers and dps are tunneled in doing something something important for less than 1 second.

 

[scy]

I'd laugh but the hardest thing in the game for me to do is run by a treasure chest and click it without screwing it up.

People can vouch for me on my inability to chest.

 

[Tomat]

I'd laugh but the hardest thing in the game for me to do is run by a treasure chest and click it without screwing it up.

People can vouch for me on my inability to chest.

I thought I was the only one who had this problem.

 

[Hasemo]

Bismark Extreme is giving me absolute hell.

I left a PF group yesterday because the tanks were unable to swap/keep the blue/green guys apart a few attempts in a row. I don't have time for this.

 

[OsirisBlack]

I left a PF group yesterday because the tanks were unable to swap/keep the blue/green guys apart a few attempts in a row. I don't have time for this.

To be fair that is hardest part of the run one mistake during a swap and its a wipe.

Edited to add

About to go tank it now wish me luck.

 

[Arkeband]

It also opens your eyes on how terribad people are at FFXIV.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Haly]

Finished the 2.5 NIN storyline. It had everything. Ninja angst. Waterfalls. Lost jutsus. "We're not so different you and I." Last minute resurrections.

Baaaaaaarf.

I kind of want to get Yoshimitsu before I finish 2.5 and do 3.0 stuff.

 

[Item Box]

oh

 

[VanillaCakeIsBurning]

Finished the NIN storyline. It had everything. Ninja angst. Waterfalls. Lost jutsus. "We're not so different you and I." Last minute resurrections.

Baaaaaaarf.

I kind of want to get Yoshimitsu before I finish 2.5 and do 3.0 stuff.

My NIN is only 51 but your description of the new job quests sounds amazing.

I'm currently working on WAR (54) and WHM (51) at the moment. I hear WHM's questline is a snoozefest and so far WAR's isn't terribly interesting but it looks to be a little more so than PLD's job questline at least.

I keep hearing about how the DRK job questline is amazing. I have mine at 38 right now and want to continue that just to see how it turns out. I flip flop a lot so it might take me a while to finish it.

 

[iammeiam]

Is there some kind of weird prerequisite to turn in the Ravana EX quest? I've killed Ravana... like... a lot..., and the quest in my journal is green check mark, but when I go to talk to the storyteller he has no icon.

I know it's the right guy because somebody else turned it in to him, he just doesn't like me.

 

[Haly]

My NIN is only 51 but your description of the new job quests sounds amazing.

That was for the 2.5 quest. Wasn't really clear about that.

 

[Sassen]

If any new players would like to help me out, please use this friend code: YAJYWDYE

If you do use the code, send me a message and I'll provide you with the Heavensward pre-order code as well for a Baron Circlet & Barron Earrings Chocobo Chick Courier.

 

[OsirisBlack]

Update on Bismark Extreme.

I went tank we tanked stuff.... got to serpent phase and dps could NOT kill them in the allotted time. FML.

 

[Tomat]

Did Ultros just explode?

 

[Sorian]

Did Ultros just explode?

Yup, can't get back in

 

[Leunam]

Finished the 2.5 NIN storyline. It had everything. Ninja angst. Waterfalls. Lost jutsus. "We're not so different you and I." Last minute resurrections.

Baaaaaaarf.

I kind of want to get Yoshimitsu before I finish 2.5 and do 3.0 stuff.

The 3.0 quests aren't any better.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Why did I ever stop playing PLD? Always loved tanking and PLD is a blast to play. I just got Goring Blade and it's so nice to have something to use other than 1-2-3 spam.

Just need level 60 now. I actually think I might level WAR next.

 

[iDotDotDot]

is it too late for some1 to buy the base game and work his way up to the expansion?

 

[gryvan]

is it too late for some1 to buy the base game and work his way up to the expansion?

nope never too late

 

[Tomat]

is it too late for some1 to buy the base game and work his way up to the expansion?

You're only late in the sense that people will have all the content on farm by the time you get there. There's always more content on the way.

 

[Korezo]

Update on Bismark Extreme.

I went tank we tanked stuff.... got to serpent phase and dps could NOT kill them in the allotted time. FML.

Thats the life of everyone who plays this game solo using duty finder. Things will take a long time to get cleared or never.

 

[Ayumi]

If I buy the game + expansion bundle, do I use the Heavensward gametime card or the normal FFXIV gametime card? Does it matter?
It would make sense to use the expansion one on normal games but considering I'm a new player, I won't be able to even access the Heavensward stuff yet.

 

[LowParry]

3 people I know have already quit the game. And it's not that they don't have anything to do. Kupo.