QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Im not rushing myself, doing beastmen and roulettes only
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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch
- Thread starter Ken
- Start date
Im not rushing myself, doing beastmen and roulettes only
I'm curious what the response would of been to Anima if, it still took the same amount of time, but was just presented differently. More original content, stuff focused on HW areas. Not just another old world tome/dungeon grind.
Already only log on to raid. If 3.2 and the new stuff isn't any good I'm probably done, I think several people in group are too.
I'm just amazed at the total cluelessness YoshiP's letter showed, at least to me.
Yoshi just does not get it.
Yup, that's exactly it. It's 4 dungeons which are boring after a couple runs, 2 ex trials which are farmed in a week, 1 hard raid, 1 24-man ask raid you do a couple times + some minor content every 2 patches (4-6 months?). He doesn't get it. A lot of us didn't have issue with Savage being extremely hard, we had issues that there wasn't any other content that was hard (coil hard) and rewarding so you had proper progression and things to do as a static if you couldn't beat savage yet.
I got up to 20/80 items for relic but I've lost interest in grinding my relic. It's just boring doing this old content, no matter what varied way people are doing it.
I was taking a break before finding a static for me and a couple other players from our old static, but I think I may just actually quit. Now's the perfect time.
Yup, that's exactly it. It's 4 dungeons which are boring after a couple runs, 2 ex trials which are farmed in a week, 1 hard raid, 1 24-man ask raid you do a couple times + some minor content every 2 patches (4-6 months?). He doesn't get it. A lot of us didn't have issue with Savage being extremely hard, we had issues that there wasn't any other content that was hard (coil hard) and rewarding so you had proper progression and things to do as a static if you couldn't beat savage yet.
I got up to 20/80 items for relic but I've lost interest in grinding my relic. It's just boring doing this old content, no matter what varied way people are doing it.
I was taking a break before finding a static for me and a couple other players from our old static, but I think I may just actually quit. Now's the perfect time.
DarknessTear
Banned
Play other games.
SaintGalgo
Member
I DIDN'T THINK THAT WOULD MAKE IT
he's going to be so mad at me
HylianScribe
Member
I need some indicator from them that the next tier isn't just going to be DPS-light A4S styled fights, but that's what they seem to want. A4S is a fight designed to be outgeared; post-Thordan the fight got a lot quicker/easier; we clear sloppy but we clear it in some part because lol gear carry. It's the strictest DPS check and I still drop GCDs and do the "I DO NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR DPS DO THE MECHANICS" thing like... a lot. Aside from the gear wall aspect (which they could include easily via HP checks while keeping the DPS check down), people's problems with A4S isn't that the DPS requirement itself is crazy, it's that the fight sucks. A fight that sucks with a lower DPS requirement is still going to suck. A fight modeled after the instawipe aspects of SCoB is going to suck.
The live letter seems to amount to getting that people want to raid to stroke their ego with superior iLevels, but not have it be, you know, hard so that they might feel bad about not being able to bash their faces into it to beat it through sheer time. I don't raid for iLevel so... not super reassuring here. A3S was amazing as a final fight, but they screwed up and stuck it third with no ramp-up in the FCoB-tier 1 and 2. It's a pretty basic mistake and reacting by just making everything easier is uh.
Not sure how to feel about the raid difficulty changes. The reason my group didn't clear 3 wasn't because of the fight design/DPS checks being too hard.
A1 and A2 are lame fights and A4 sounds like an abomination. A tier with a better difficulty curve, slightly more interesting intro fights, and a final fight everyone doesn't hate would be fine probably.
With that said, I still very much enjoyed coil's difficulty. So I'm on the fence about this one.
A1 and A2 are lame fights and A4 sounds like an abomination. A tier with a better difficulty curve, slightly more interesting intro fights, and a final fight everyone doesn't hate would be fine probably.
With that said, I still very much enjoyed coil's difficulty. So I'm on the fence about this one.
I guess good news is that allegedly SCOB designer is making it instead of just... whoever. People used to like SCOB, what happened?
Yeah I heard it's all being handed back to Mr. D? I believe in the D.
I mean, when it comes to raid tiers, their scorecard is 3 good, 1 bad. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to designing the new raids considering that apparently all the floors of the current savage were designed by different people some of whom apparently didn't know what they were doing.
SCoB had its good aspects but it also had the Bad Phase Push thing that is almost completely missing from Alex, outside of A4S because A4S is bullshit; having a death on leg 3 and then having Jagd dolls pop after the Manipulator is targetable is so rage inducing. Like, I lot of aspects of T6, but the original implementation of honey where you're punished for pushing phases at the wrong time is stupid. T7 was all about timing Mel's pushes; T9 had the Shadow thing. Lots of stuff where you had to manipulate how you interacted with the fight so it wouldn't wipe you. It's manageable, but it's not fun.
A1S and A3S being solely timed means you're always up against the fight, not "woops somebody got an upgrade and now we're pushing too fast, please /mdance for 15 seconds while we wait for the right part of the script."
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
/mdance is for scrubs, /harvestdance is the true top tier.
I thought that was a good mechanic. Knowing when to burst and when to hold. The fights in SCOB were just tested out a bit better. T7 Savage being all about split-second timing was part of its challenge so for example in our 130 clear me and the other melee stood around for seconds on end because it wasn't about DPS, it was about when to do thing. And that's great! A lot of enjoyment in the new trials comes from that exact philosophy. "And now it's time for mechanics" "Okay, good job, DPS now" "A thing is out, kill this fast". It should be about finesse instead of just "okay we got a high number, the fight is now invalidated". That shit's for FFlogs audience and fuck that audience.
I thought that was a good mechanic. Knowing when to burst and when to hold. The fights in SCOB were just tested out a bit better. T7 Savage being all about split-second timing was part of its challenge so for example in our 130 clear me and the other melee stood around for seconds on end because it wasn't about DPS, it was about when to do thing. And that's great! A lot of enjoyment in the new trials comes from that exact philosophy. "And now it's time for mechanics" "Okay, good job, DPS now" "A thing is out, kill this fast". It should be about finesse instead of just "okay we got a high number, the fight is now invalidated". That shit's for FFlogs audience and fuck that audience.
I have to agree also fuck the bolded people ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Well I have been playing other games or focusing on other things during times when I would have played FF14 before. My free time that was spent playing FF14 is now being used on other things.
If I'm not going to bother with a patch or two, I may as well just quit outright.
The story isn't that amazing where I would just play it for that. It's interesting but MMO stories always have a return to status quo element that annoys me. Being behind, even with quick catch up mechanics, is annoying.
DarknessTear
Banned
Yes, I am encouraging him to join me in quitting!
I might come back for a short time in February (if that's when 3.2 comes out) to do story stuff and the primal, then leave until next patch. Probably depends on how much I care about keeping my house. It's a medium! I spent a lot of gils!
Game is in a bad place right now. The cycle isn't going to change until maybe after expansion... if we're lucky.
I guess this doesn't count as really quitting does it? I'm still kinda torn if I want to stay away until next expansion because of the story and my house.
4.0 would be the only chance I could see them redeeming the game for me. The issue is content variety that is still rewarding.
Because the only two ways I can see them fixing it are:
1) Hiring a lot more artists and developers to create so much content each patch to keep content variety.
2) Fix the progression system so you have reason to run older content and isn't invalidated each patch. And then adjust difficulty of non-raid content so there is a nice mix across the board of easy, medium, hard, savage content instead of the current mainly all easy mindless content outside an occasional raid or primal.
So yeah, maybe quit until 4.0 is the best plan and see whether they are fixing it.
Because the only two ways I can see them fixing it are:
1) Hiring a lot more artists and developers to create so much content each patch to keep content variety.
2) Fix the progression system so you have reason to run older content and isn't invalidated each patch. And then adjust difficulty of non-raid content so there is a nice mix across the board of easy, medium, hard, savage content instead of the current mainly all easy mindless content outside an occasional raid or primal.
So yeah, maybe quit until 4.0 is the best plan and see whether they are fixing it.
I thought that was a good mechanic. Knowing when to burst and when to hold. The fights in SCOB were just tested out a bit better. T7 Savage being all about split-second timing was part of its challenge so for example in our 130 clear me and the other melee stood around for seconds on end because it wasn't about DPS, it was about when to do thing. And that's great! A lot of enjoyment in the new trials comes from that exact philosophy. "And now it's time for mechanics" "Okay, good job, DPS now" "A thing is out, kill this fast". It should be about finesse instead of just "okay we got a high number, the fight is now invalidated". That shit's for FFlogs audience and fuck that audience.
What's funny is finesse, learning to balance and hold burst, doing mechanics, etc, all of that is A3S to me. You can have all those things without artificially hinging it all on poorly thought out fight scripting, and that's what I want. Planning out A3S in a way that resulted in no room for error, panicked judgment calls, and minimal DPS downtime was involving. Learning and doing the dance was great. And at no point in time did we have to go "GUYS LIVING LIQUID IS AT 64% HOLD ALL DPS FOR 45 SECONDS." Getting better gear or smoothing out rotations and boosting our numbers changed nothing about the fight except for how much of the second rotation we see. It's the poster child for finesse and not invalidating a fight through MAX DEEPS.
But it's also one of the fights people complain about the most. I just know I'd rather have A3S style complexity over the highly artificial variety where you're sitting around waiting on scripting and HP percentages.
cultureculture
Member
Reddit said:
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture...
Aeriscloud
Banned
It's hard not to unsub to be honest, I cannot believe I'm saying this.
How do you fuck up such a great start?
How do you fuck up such a great start?
Yeah I was so excited during the HW launch. It was the best MMO expansion I had ever seen too with the servers being up the entire time and a very great progression from 50 to 60 with the story and quests (minus moogles of course).
Then once you got to 60 that's when it went downhill.
DarknessTear
Banned
I didn't even realize how bad the endgame was right away. It took me doing Alexander normal a few times to realize what the fuck just happened.
I'd be more willing to do it if it didn't come down to boring tome grinds - running roulettes only to get stuff like Copperbell HM again and again is really irritating. I logged on yesterday with the intention of getting a few of the items but as soon as I zoned into a dungeon I just wasn't motivated anymore.
Even spamming Alexander normal isn't fun. It's just bad game design, period. I know some people love grinds and that's cool but this one is already worse than Zodiac ever was.
Sorry but end game is really disappointing right now. I've only managed to get 10 of the relic items in a week. It's just not fun.
I haven't even watched the Live Letter and I bet it's going to be awful.
This is the worst news imaginable to be honest. If they go through more Second Coil design philosophy we'll end up with more and more fights like A4S. That's the fight that currently feels most like Second Coil design. I'd rather more Final Coil / A3S type of fights. I realize they're basically the same team that did those two tiers so it comes down to which approach they'd rather do.
This is the worst news imaginable to be honest. If they go through more Second Coil design philosophy we'll end up with more and more fights like A4S. That's the fight that currently feels most like Second Coil design. I'd rather more Final Coil / A3S type of fights. I realize they're basically the same team that did those two tiers so it comes down to which approach they'd rather do.
HylianScribe
Member
http://time.com/3817373/final-fantasy-14-naoki-yoshida/
Edit: Again, all their effort went into saving XIV and making ARR amazing. YoshiP had so much to borrow from and a lot of energy to prove himself. The burn out is settling in. I mean maybe if they had the same type of support WoW had for its first 5 years with a huge dev team and the majority of the company's resources at your disposal, but XIV clearly is not the top priority for Square Enix. There's a slight chance that when some of the bigger titles like XV, KH III, and VII HD Part 1 arrive over the next 2-3 years, more resources can go to XIV. But it's clear Heavensward is fucked. I also don't hold too much hope for 4.0. Maybe 5.0 will be the glorious return we've been expecting if they get the devs and resources, but it seems more and more likely XIV is going to start its death cycle (may already be in it honestly) pretty soon. Did SE recoup their losses yet on XIV 1.0? Are they close if they haven't? Regardless, relaunching with ARR I suspect paid off better than just pulling the plug. If you consider XIV technically began in 2009, you could maybe say we're entering the 7th year of the game by some sort of stretch of the imagination.
Mr. D is our only hope.
.....
And I said so in the post. I know they were the same team. The fight philosophies were not, however. Second Coil had more |The Boss| + |The Mechanics| as separate things you dealt with rather than fluid parts of the fight. It had the awkward phase pushes. Final Coil moved more of the dangerous boss mechanics to the boss itself with a few exceptions. It's what gave most of the fight progression instead of wildly different phases.
I liked you better when you were a potato.
I'm also still waiting for the shocking reveal that Mr. D did A3S. It feels like a Mr. D in FCoB mode fight.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Potatoes are the worst.
Also racist D: Kicking me out of a linkshell right when I changed back.
It's not whining here. It's a discussion on the fact that some of us don't find the game fun anymore and why that is. You still find it fun (do you?), but I am at the point where I am deciding if this is actually when I quit.
I think it's pretty obvious I don't!
But, I'd like to think there was a progression in design philosophy from second to final coil and they wouldn't take a step back. From what I've been told, Alex savage was made by a bunch of different teams so who knows who did what. It seems like A4S might have been rushed out the door too.
Sounds like you won't be around for 4.0. They aren't going to hire significantly more people for this game and only this game, they are not going to stop vertical progression system. Its ingrained into the very nature of the game and Yoshida has explicitly stated he does not want older content, content that people have moved on from, to be a required factor to move forward into new content and thus the need for new items to always be better then the previous content. Its why we have such piss poor itemization in general like no item sets/special stats on gear anymore because Yoshida fears that gear balance would be 'too good' that they would have to take much larger steps to make gear that is far better then it in the next tier.
I am entertained enough, I play enough to justify my monthly sub and I never feel like I am forcing myself to play when I do. The game doesn't need to be perfection for me. It's a game like any other one that I own and play in my free time and the advantage is that it gets updated with new content every so often.
I mean, it's fine, that's what this thread is for, but I can also say it seems whiny from my perspective. I think it's obvious that raids have all been designed with slightly different philosophies in mind. Final coil was great, alexander 1 was subpar, not surprising. Alex 2 will be a whole different beast. As far as the formula for content goes, if someone doesn't like it then leave, it's not getting changed anytime soon. This is the route they are going and it's fine for this day and age. I still contend that we get much more content at a consistent rate than most MMOs these days do.