Support NeoGAF

[Talaysen]

But for the part you quoted, it's more not wanting to sacrifice your main job for DPS, rather than zero dps at all. Even if I am in tank stance full time I'd still max dps as much as possible, it's just the meta is a lot further than that, you actively sacrifice large amounts of mitigation in order for more DPS. You don't always need that mitigation, but it would make things a lot smoother/easier if you had it and my favorite thing about tanks was always being the unkillable/tough machine that made everyone healer's job easier. I am guessing that part of the role appeals to a lot of people, and is where some of the other complaints come from.

I spend like 95% of the fight out of Grit in AS4 so I could definitely make things a lot easier if I ever needed to. But if we are talking max DPS there's really not more I could ever do, I get cooldowns up before big hits and then basically pray. It would be nice to have more tricks to survive beyond that, or for the meta to not be so focused on essentially being a slightly less squishy dps.

Came back to clarity and say this but you beat me to it. Even if you're tanking everything in tank stance, you should be still maximizing DPS. The line I draw is when you have to sacrifice your survival to increase your DPS. That's not what I want to be doing as a tank. That pretty much goes counter to the tank role.

I was more getting to that you can't Path them until the final phase and the current way these are handled in the final phase means you don't alter the healing response all that much with Storm's Path vs cooldowns (or in the case of Perpetual, invulning a set). Healer response is what matters, simply mitigating for more doesn't do anything.

Oh, I stopped using Path for phases 1-4 once I realized it didn't do anything.

 

[SliceSabre]

Sounds like the game needs more bosses that use MORE attacks that mollywhop the fuck out of the tank to remind them what their primary role is and make them want to keep tank stance on.

 

[Kagari]

Sounds like the game needs more bosses that use MORE attacks that mollywhop the fuck out of the tank to remind them what their primary role is.

Bahamut in every raid.

 

[scy]

Came back to clarity and say this but you beat me to it. Even if you're tanking everything in tank stance, you should be still maximizing DPS. The line I draw is when you have to sacrifice your survival to increase your DPS. That's not what I want to be doing as a tank. That pretty much goes counter to the tank role.

I differ a bit here, I don't mind sacrificing tank things if it's unnecessary. With the way this game is designed, surviving is surviving so there's only so much to worry about defensively before it doesn't add anything, just removes from elsewhere. That said, I do disagree that tank gearing should be disregard their actual accessories, that the only tank secondary is useless, and that the tank stance is a "if 100% necessary" cooldown and not the standard. That's where it gets a little weird.

Oh, I stopped using Path for phases 1-4 once I realized it didn't do anything.

Yeah, I wasn't sure how many things you were talking about it covering all-in-all at first since ... well, it doesn't do much of anything most of the time. Honestly, even in the final phase it doesn't do too much simply since the Bit and Gasket do most the worrisome damage in the fight and the scary tank busters are cooldown'd to the point of not mattering _that_ much.

Really, a lot of this tier became less about the tank getting healed up and more the raid as a whole constantly being on the verge of dying.

Sounds like the game needs more bosses that use MORE attacks that mollywhop the fuck out of the tank to remind them what their primary role is and make them want to keep tank stance on.

alternatively just make tank stance more useful outright.

I dunno, a lot could be done to simply make both stances more effective but weakening general cooldowns but way too late in the game to make sweeping changes like that.

 

[xxczx]

Sounds like the game needs more bosses that use MORE attacks that mollywhop the fuck out of the tank to remind them what their primary role is and make them want to keep tank stance on.

Meanwhile WARs still laugh at silly tank stances that reduce incoming damage

 

[Frumix]

Sounds like the game needs more bosses that use MORE attacks that mollywhop the fuck out of the tank to remind them what their primary role is and make them want to keep tank stance on.

How do you suppose that would work? This game isn't designed for a constant stream of damage like in WoW (because MP, TP, cooldown alignments are designed in a certain way) so there'll still be situations where you can breathe and push damage.

I mean. Just make VIT their main stat.

 

[WolvenOne]

Bahamut in every raid.

"YOU CAN'T GET RID OF ME THAT EASILY! MWAHAHA!"

*Sigh* "Bahamut is such a stalker!"

 

[BadRNG]

Edit: Put another way, I'd rather it be about not liking how passive tanking is vs disliking tank DPS. There's nothing you can do to really be tankier in this game which is what lends itself to the finding the tanky enough sweetspot and that's it.

So it's just a terminology thing you got issue with? Yeah, it could be put a better way. I guess something like not liking sacrificing tankiness for damage, and wishing the engagement was on the defensive end rather than the offensive instead of just saying you don't like tank DPS.

Spoiler

That takes longer though and I'm lazy.

Bahamut in every raid.

Reach A8. Battle with some asshole goblin ensues. Few minutes in he starters sapping power from Alexander to power some stupid machine thing. But it short circuits and the lights/Alexander power down. Roar is heard. Room begins filling with light.

TERAFLARE.
ASSHOLE GOBLIN IS TURNED TO DUST.
BAHAMUT ZERO APPEARS, BAHAMUT FUSED WITH ALEXANDER MACHINE CRAP.
REAL BATTLE BEGINS NOW.

 

[Kenai]

How do you suppose that would work? This game isn't designed for a constant stream of damage like in WoW (because MP, TP, cooldown alignments are designed in a certain way) so there'll still be situations where you can breathe and push damage.

I mean. Just make VIT their main stat.

This is the answer. Focus on the "main" stats of the class and make them more interesting. Cleric Stance is a no brainer and yet does a lot for healers, I'm quite surprised they didn't do something similar (but more applicable to the tank role) for tanks by now.

The dev team can't have it both ways. Either they need to add more variable stats to the game, or they need to use more specific class/role mechanics to make their current ones more interesting and less binary. Right now there is always a right answer for gear for the current tier due to that and that's boring.

 

[WolvenOne]

My concern with simply making Vit a tanks main stat and removing STR from everything, is then suddenly you have to go back and test each fight with level appropriate gear to see if everything is balanced right. I'd rather they avoided having to re-adjust large swathes of the game, and use those resources to instead create more new content. I mean, they've adjusted the old content a LOT already. How much more adjustment can they do there before it's legit to blame for us not getting more new stuff?

Admittedly, making Vit into Det when it hits certain break points would probably necessitate some testing as well. Probably not as much though, depending on where you placed said break points.

 

[scy]

So it's just a terminology thing you got issue with? Yeah, it could be put a better way. I guess something like not liking sacrificing tankiness for damage, and wishing the engagement was on the defensive end rather than the offensive instead of just saying you don't like tank DPS.

Spoiler

That takes longer though and I'm lazy.

Probably? It's just seeing the complaint of what's wrong instead of what people would rather have. Overly stuck on taking "dislike tank DPS" as the problem and solution in and of itself perhaps. Like, the big change to me for tanking from ARR to now is ... I do more damage. So my view is that how it works didn't change a ton, simply that it's more required.

Tanking in this game has always been fairly low on the engagement and has been a big part of my issue with it, it's why I usually talk out fights a lot when tanking. I have the freedom to do that. So I read a lot of the "it was good before please no more DPSing" as wanting to go back to where the only difference was how relevant the damage is and not so much because tanking was more fun before.

And because I'm a jerk and think some, not all, people who are against tank DPS would also be against active tanking outright too.

My concern with simply making Vit a tanks main stat and removing STR from everything, is then suddenly you have to go back and test each fight with level appropriate gear to see if everything is balanced right.

...I mean, they don't really have to, especially if it's 1:1.

 

[iammeiam]

ARR content isn't really balanced for anything at this point--they've nerfed the pants off everything (they nerfed Sastasha! SASTASHA) and by the time you finish the main story you're i110 minimum so you'd be overgearing everything but Final Coil by default. Plus coil was back when the DPS checks were at a level you could believe they were balanced around full VIT tanks /afking between busters, so worst case all the tanks just hit a little harder while /afk. In the post-Anima Unsynced carry world, Coil has no dignity to preserve.

I'm sort of fascinated at the potential of all tanks being full VIT spec next tier though. Crazy HP pools everywhere.

 

[Frumix]

They didn't nerf Sastasha, that was a mistranslation.

 

[Kenai]

My concern with simply making Vit a tanks main stat and removing STR from everything, is then suddenly you have to go back and test each fight with level appropriate gear to see if everything is balanced right. I'd rather they avoided having to re-adjust large swathes of the game, and use those resources to instead create more new content. I mean, they've adjusted the old content a LOT already. How much more adjustment can they do there before it's legit to blame for us not getting more new stuff?

Admittedly, making Vit into Det when it hits certain break points would probably necessitate some testing as well. Probably not as much though, depending on where you placed said break points.

This doesn't seem to be as big of a deal as you infer.

If they were to change VIT into a tank's main stat and keep the general damage similar to now otherwise, the only real change would be the gear drops tanks want. Unlike some people who are concerned more about playstyle, my problems are more with the absolute factors that come from certain stats being completely ignored despite how few stats there actually are in game for legit choices. It's not really a problem in my static since we don't have a STR DPS main in it, but it's still something I consider a big issue.

I feel like something more comprehensive would be needed to get what people do/don't like about current tanking in the game. I've NEVER liked tanking in MMOs and don't do it (I literally do not trust random ppl to heal me, thus I choose to do so myself), so I'm not one to ask.

 

[Arkeband]

I mean, they've adjusted the old content a LOT already. How much more adjustment can they do there before it's legit to blame for us not getting more new stuff?

It's never legit to blame the customer. If they have their work cut out for them to rebalance the game so their algorithms are futureproofed, that's time well spent.

They still have a quota of content to serve based on the subscription model. We're still missing basic amenities like being able to access our friends lists or receiving tells while in dungeons. The amount of time they spend on QOL stuff is already justifiably huge, because there's a lot of catch-up they're still doing.

 

[iammeiam]

They didn't nerf Sastasha, that was a mistranslation.

Really? I remember a few people reporting the final boss's HP pool seemed noticeably lower, but maybe just confirmation bias.

 

[jacob armitage]

Keep getting the version check when trying to launch on PS4, is it from PSN issues? Everything else seems to be running ok.

 

[Ken]

When Midas comes out with only 3 bosses, we'll only have ourselves to blame for wanting PLD buffs.

Keep getting the version check when trying to launch on PS4, is it from PSN issues? Everything else seems to be running ok.

PSN is apparently down so yeah, you won't be able to get in if you weren't logged in already.

 

[jacob armitage]

PSN is apparently down so yeah, you won't be able to get in if you weren't logged in already.

Thank you <3.

So i just resubbed after only playing really briefly after Heavensward dropped, only getting to level 55. I've the day off work and i ordered a pizza (its like -25 out, i was going to go grocery shopping but i'll do that tomorrow) and was excited to play FF14 all day!

Oh well, hopefully PSN comes back up soon.

 

[HylianScribe]

Enigma and Miunih talk about healing in Alex Savage and a lot of subjects, ranging from healer accuracy to the role of healers in the raid DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7pSzCrFIs&feature=youtu.be

Oh man, the question about fflogs...

"Should healers care about fflogs?"

Miunih: "No." "...a lot of padding..." "...it's not how you gauge a good healer or dps."

 

[BadRNG]

Probably? It's just seeing the complaint of what's wrong instead of what people would rather have. Overly stuck on taking "dislike tank DPS" as the problem and solution in and of itself perhaps. Like, the big change to me for tanking from ARR to now is ... I do more damage. So my view is that how it works didn't change a ton, simply that it's more required.

So I read a lot of the "it was good before please no more DPSing" as wanting to go back to where the only difference was how relevant the damage is and not so much because tanking was more fun before.

And because I'm a jerk and think some, not all, people who are against tank DPS would also be against active tanking outright too.

That's what the main change is, before if you didn't want to go max dps/be squishier you didn't ever need to. Now on a lot of content you have to. Not going to deny that some who are against it are just being lazy, I'm just arguing for a different side (that I consider myself a part of). Not everyone who doesn't enjoy the DPS focus wants less to do, just don't want to sacrifice the idea of being a tank.

I'm not arguing it was necessarily better before either, I played PLD and near the end of 2.x I was about ready to quit the game because of how sick of the boring class it was. But more dps/focus on DPS was never what I wanted instead. My complaint then isn't that I have to DPS by itself, but it's disappointing we went more in that direction than a different one. Like instead of giving tanks a lot more DPS options in the expansion, nerfing incoming damage (proportionally to tank HP), and increasing DPS checks what if they went in the other direction? More tank debuffs, more skills like IB with short windows to mitigate, more party buffs, keep DPS requirement but up incoming tank damage so you have to be smart with mitigating damage. You could actually argue the new PLD stuff is actually sort of built with that direction, but the tanking meta is all about DPS now so it's all sort of wasted.

I'm sure some would of been against that direction, some people just want to dps and some want to do nothing. I'm not in either group, and my initial line of comments were where someone acted like the only way you could be against DPS is if you are lazy. There are other ways! SE will probably never implement them but they are there.

, it's why I usually talk out fights a lot when tanking. I have the freedom to do that.

I thought you did this just to mess with angary.

 

[Come to Butt-Head]

I just recently got a PS4 about a month ago, and I'm kind of feeling the MMORPG itch. How is this on PS4?

The only MMO's I've played are SWTOR and WoW. How does this compare?

 

[BadRNG]

I just recently got a PS4 about a month ago, and I'm kind of feeling the MMORPG itch. How is this on PS4?

The only MMO's I've played are SWTOR and WoW. How does this compare?

It plays very well on PS4, and surprisingly (for an MMO) controller also works extremely well. Can do all content in the game fine with it. Might want a wireless keyboard for communication though.

If you played those then you should be able to pick it up fast, it's same flavor of design. The major difference you will see is instead of skill trees for each class, you have the ability to play all jobs on a single character and switch at will depending on what you want to do at any given time.

 

[WolvenOne]

It's never legit to blame the customer. If they have their work cut out for them to rebalance the game so their algorithms are futureproofed, that's time well spent.

They still have a quota of content to serve based on the subscription model. We're still missing basic amenities like being able to access our friends lists or receiving tells while in dungeons. The amount of time they spend on QOL stuff is already justifiably huge, because there's a lot of catch-up they're still doing.

Who the heck is blaming the customer? I'm just saying, as far as my priorities go, it's..

New Content >>>> Quality of Life Fixes >>>>>>>> MiniGames.

Biggest complaint people have had since Heavensward is that there isn't enough to do, and that a chunk of the content you could do wasn't very engaging. So for the next few major patches I want them to focus on making new trials, making diadem more enjoyable, etc etc. Thus, right now I favor small iterative changes over big overhauls.

 

[Come to Butt-Head]

It plays very well on PS4, and surprisingly (for an MMO) controller also works extremely well. Can do all content in the game fine with it. Might want a wireless keyboard for communication though.

If you played those then you should be able to pick it up fast, it's same flavor of design. The major difference you will see is instead of skill trees for each class, you have the ability to play all jobs on a single character and switch at will depending on what you want to do at any given time.

Thanks for the response. Should I try and get into a guild ASAP? In WoW, you actually gain statistical enhancements by being in a guild. Is it similar here? Oh, and is this game cross-play between platforms?

 

[BadRNG]

Thus, right now I favor small iterative changes over big overhauls.

I think you are overestimating just how big of an overhaul this has to be. They certainly wouldn't have to test every past fight with the changes.

Also I think they consider mini games same thing as new content, so you screwed either way. You will play GS minigames and you will like it.

Spoiler

for about one week

Thanks for the response. Should I try and get into a guild ASAP? In WoW, you actually gain statistical enhancements by being in a guild. Is it similar here?

Yeah, there are some buffs you can get, not major but helpful. If you join the GAF FC (on Ultros), it'd be helpful for any questions/finding groups too of course. Since every one can be every job, it's not uncommon for even veterans to be running lower level stuff on a different class.

counter edit to your edit - Yeah it's cross-play. PS3/PS4/PC all on same servers, and characters are shared account wide.

 

[Kenai]

Thanks for the response. Should I try and get into a guild ASAP? In WoW, you actually gain statistical enhancements by being in a guild. Is it similar here?

There are guild buffs like increased exp and food duration and such. It's usually a good idea but isn't required or anything.

If you are NA there's always room in the GAF guild on Ultros, though depending on the time of day it might be annoying to make a new character there.

 

[Sioen]

Apologies if this has been asked before but what is the most populated EU server?

 

[Jayhawk]

Enigma and Miunih talk about healing in Alex Savage and a lot of subjects, ranging from healer accuracy to the role of healers in the raid DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7pSzCrFIs&feature=youtu.be

Oh man, the question about fflogs...

"Should healers care about fflogs?"

Miunih: "No." "...a lot of padding..." "...it's not how you gauge a good healer or dps."

Any metric isn't going to be some catch-all indicator of what the best is, especially if it cannot capture player awareness, adaptability, communication skills, etc. The arguments for and against fflogs are similar to the arguments people make about sabermetrics and analytics in sports. Using data to gain more knowledge about different aspects can be very helpful compared to being ignorant of the data available. Although, neglecting fflogs is probably better off for people who are bad at interpreting data.

 

[Isaccard]

Whatever 3.2's going to do to tank DPS is at least a newer wrinkle on the old argument. Something about accessories had to change because VIT accessories being trash weren't just an early progression thing, it became an always thing. Expensive tank melds were an always thing. So rebalancing their damage to make VIT accessories not garbage is nothing but good. Tuning down the DPS checks in the future raids will make tank DPS a lot more optional than it has been (I sincerely don't believe you can do A4S with two turtle tanks right now; getting a 0 healer DPS and 500/tank DPS requirement in the fight requires like the top DRG/MNK/BRD/BLM parses available, and there's cheese present in those meaning the numbers couldn't directly translate to the above comp), but does that mean they heavily nerf tank DPS, or do they just tune things to FCoB level where you can just float lower contributors np so tanks don't have to push if all the DPS is awake?

And if they do try to 'fix' tank DPS, for those who think nerf is the fix, are they actually going to be successful or is it going to be like fixing skill/spellspeed by incorporating it in DoT ticks? Because that did not work.

Didint they say there were going to do some big change to how Tank damage is calculated? Did they ever say what that was or expand on how/what? I remember people speculating that Vit would be how Tank damage would be determined to offset the uselessness of vit accessories. In regards to tank DPS output, PLD is the only Tank that really suffers

Spoiler

RIP Grimm

 

[Ken]

I just recently got a PS4 about a month ago, and I'm kind of feeling the MMORPG itch. How is this on PS4?

The only MMO's I've played are SWTOR and WoW. How does this compare?

FFXIV is usually described as theme park WoW clone with FF skin so take that for what you will. I personally never played WoW so I can only supply that.

Classes aren't as flexible as SWTOR are. You don't really have an option to spec a certain way or trait differently. The armory system lets you take all jobs as one character though. I also think gear is less involving in FFXIV as you're just chasing item levels. Think SWTOR had a bunch of crazy armor perks and mods you could slot?

I think I much prefer the combat in FFXIV. Might be slower (I think SWTOR has 1s GCD) but it feels so much less chaotic to play and to look at, but that could be me getting deeper into FFXIV than SWTOR. Last things I did in SWTOR were Eternity Vault and Rise of the Rakghouls. Also, dungeons are 4-mans, and there are 8 and 24-man raids, though the 24-mans is tuned for casual audience.

Leveling speed seems about the same compared to launch SWTOR? 3-4 weeks to hit launch level cap. There's a story but less personalized given there's no player choices, morale system, or companion bonding. World exploration isn't as "rewarding" either, I think. Also much less personal instances so the world doesn't feel as empty.

I really like the polish XIV has in presentation though. Everything just looks and plays cleaner, though I still sometimes itch to go back to SWTOR. All that said, I think you'll enjoy it if you're just looking for another MMO to play as it's quite good all around.

I think Sorian actively plays SWTOR so he'd probably know better than me.

Apologies if this has been asked before but what is the most populated EU server?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/31erh5/which_eu_server_to_choose/?

Try that? I'm not EU so I don't really know.

 

[ebil]

Apologies if this has been asked before but what is the most populated EU server?

Ragnarok (Cerberus isn't far behind).

 

[WolvenOne]

Wait, if they made VIT the main DPS stat for Tanks, does this mean I'd have to use VIT Pots instead?

 

[Ken]

Wait, if they made VIT the main DPS stat for Tanks, does this mean I'd have to use VIT Pots instead?

No, you'd have to use INT pots until you can answer that yourself.

 

[Jayhawk]

Wait, if they made VIT the main DPS stat for Tanks, does this mean I'd have to use VIT Pots instead?

History says we can't 100% take this as a joke.

 

[Isaccard]

I miss Hutball

 

[Ken]

I miss Hutball

Vanguard says get over here.

 

[Sioen]

Ragnarok (Cerberus isn't far behind).

Thank you, I will probably go with Ragnarok then!

 

[scy]

Oh man, the question about fflogs...

"Should healers care about fflogs?"

Miunih: "No." "...a lot of padding..." "...it's not how you gauge a good healer or dps."

I haven't listened to it but if he thinks that it's not useful, then he's a bit off. There's a lot of analytical data you can pore over in there. As an at-a-glance thing it doesn't tell you much that is useful but it's all the data from the fight you could need. It doesn't make judgments for you, just has the numbers there and the why it happened.

...as for the padding, that's pretty much true. Most the top of the top parses in general have something special going on that aren't the norm (e.g., 2x MNK for a DK slave, BRD+MCH so one has free regen, AST parses are possibly awkward, etc.). Still, removing outliers still lends itself for good information so eh?

A lot of it comes down to not using it as an at-a-glance resource and more for all that it has available. So if you are bad at analyzing information and understanding why things are different, FFLogs is probably bad for you (and/or your group if you shove it at them?). It's not inherently evil at all though!

I'm not arguing it was necessarily better before either, I played PLD and near the end of 2.x I was about ready to quit the game because of how sick of the boring class it was. But more dps/focus on DPS was never what I wanted instead. My complaint then isn't that I have to DPS by itself, but it's disappointing we went more in that direction than a different one. Like instead of giving tanks a lot more DPS options in the expansion, nerfing incoming damage (proportionally to tank HP), and increasing DPS checks what if they went in the other direction? More tank debuffs, more skills like IB with short windows to mitigate, more party buffs, keep DPS requirement but up incoming tank damage so you have to be smart with mitigating damage. You could actually argue the new PLD stuff is actually sort of built with that direction, but the tanking meta is all about DPS now so it's all sort of wasted.

Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to make it sound as if I was directing it at you. Just that a lot of my take on the people going in with the anti-tank DPSing isn't about the gameplay but about the responsibility of it. Tanking is the role that before could get by with the least amount of looking too closely at it so you did get a lot of tanks that aren't on top of basic combos constantly or off on cooldowns entirely. The new meta I think exposed a lot of that.

Personally, I'm a fan of the DPSing tank situation but mostly because the game doesn't really have a lot of room for more active tanking yet. Latency and how buffs and server ticks operate would make a lot of next-hit or short duration things a little awkward. I do agree that Paladin looks like it was designed for an entirely different game though; none of their skills really fit the current tanking situation all that well.

I thought you did this just to mess with angary.

I mean, probably

 

[iammeiam]

Man. I never PVP in MMOs, and even I miss Hutball.

Didint they say there were going to do some big change to how Tank damage is calculated? Did they ever say what that was or expand on how/what? I remember people speculating that Vit would be how Tank damage would be determined to offset the uselessness of vit accessories. In regards to tank DPS output, PLD is the only Tank that really suffers

Spoiler

RIP Grimm

It's still vague. All we really know is they're changing up the tank damage calculation and changing how accessory melds work to get away from the current state of Fending accessories dropping being about as useful as an empty chest, and everyone competing for Slaying drops. Changing melds means people can't expect full overmelded right sides on tanks anymore, making tanking no longer weirdly expensive, but they have to do something to the actual damage calculations to make tanks no longer want STR accessories (adding full STR to fending accessories wouldn't work, because then melee DPS would want them for bonus VIT, and anything less than full STR stats in the current formula would have tanks mixing Fending and Slaying again.)

 

[WolvenOne]

No, you'd have to use INT pots until you can answer that yourself.

The answer is, I crafted these mother smurfing pots, I'm smurfing using them dagnabbit!

 

[HylianScribe]

I haven't listened to it but if he thinks that it's not useful, then he's a bit off. There's a lot of analytical data you can pore over in there. As an at-a-glance thing it doesn't tell you much that is useful but it's all the data from the fight you could need. It doesn't make judgments for you, just has the numbers there and the why it happened.

...as for the padding, that's pretty much true. Most the top of the top parses in general have something special going on that aren't the norm (e.g., 2x MNK for a DK slave, BRD+MCH so one has free regen. Still, removing outliers still lends itself for good information so eh?

A lot of it comes down to not using it as an at-a-glance resource and more for all that it has available. So if you are bad at analyzing information and understanding why things are different, FFLogs is probably bad for you (and/or your group if you shove it at them?).

I was just going off his initial knee-jerk answer for my reply, I actually have a much more in-depth response to the podcast I have written up so far, but I'm worried it's going to make everyone's eyes bleed.

But regarding FFLogs, Miunih and Enigma go into more depth to explain what fflogs is actually useful for, and sort of what Jayhawk said, that people need to know how to interpret the data to find what is useful and meaningful. Otherwise fflogs is just good for seeing your name atop a list if you can't interpret the data. They also explain how to get a useful parse, ie, the settings/conditions under which you produced the parse are very important.

Edit: Engima's reply to the question about "what common things do you see healers doing that shows they don't fully understand their range of capabilities" is perfectly aimed at my old SCH days. He says first thing a SCH should do is learn to manage their pet and take it off auto unless you're doing low-level dungeons. T5-12 CLEARS WITH EOS ON SIC SAY HELLO GET REKT.

JK, that was not the right way to play SCH. Well nothing about how I played SCH was right at all, let's just pretend none of that ever happened...

 

[scy]

I was just going off his initial knee-jerk answer for my reply, I actually have a much more in-depth response to the podcast I have written up so far, but I'm worried it's going to make everyone's eyes bleed.

But regarding FFLogs, Miunih and Enigma go into more depth to explain what fflogs is actually useful for, and sort of what Jayhawk said, that people need to know how to interpret the data to find what is useful and meaningful. Otherwise fflogs is just good for seeing your name atop a list if you can't interpret the data. They also explain how to get a useful parse, ie, the settings/conditions under which you produced the parse are very important.

Ah, okay. yeah, FFLogs is a thing I've gone over a lot to figure out problem areas simply since I can go back and check, say, when a tank died. What killed him and by how much. What buffs happened or didn't happen (and why didn't they happen). What healing was going on, etc. etc. It's just generally really useful as a means of presenting data for people to interpret.

It's better at the information than ACT and more convenient than rewatching footage. Just really useful for troubleshooting.

 

[iammeiam]

For healers, FFLogs is super useful for pointing out where your jackass tank isn't using cooldowns or your jackass DPS is popping Blood For Blood at the literal worse times.

For DPS it's useful to know what rough ballpark you need to aim for to not be singlehandedly condemning your group to enrage since you can actually look at the fight and make sure the group comp/responsibility/whatever match.

Everything else is pretty much just the old Excel spreadsheets reborn. At least we get to see specifics of the cheese here/steal good ideas.

I think the key thing for me is getting a ton of mileage just out of being able to easily slice up our own data and put everyone on the same page regardless of whether or not they have or can run a parser. The rankings thing is kind of fun for fun's sake but ultimately meaningless beyond making sure I'm a passable level of terrible.

 

[BadRNG]

I miss Hutball

Ever since they went F2P I've considered going back just for Hutball. GOAT PvP mode. My favorite was going tank BH in there and being the ball handler. So much goddamn fun.

They released an expansion recently didn't they, wonder if it'd be good time to check it out again.

Personally, I'm a fan of the DPSing tank situation but mostly because the game doesn't really have a lot of room for more active tanking yet. Latency and how buffs and server ticks operate would make a lot of next-hit or short duration things a little awkward. I do agree that Paladin looks like it was designed for an entirely different game though; none of their skills really fit the current tanking situation all that well.

That's a good point, around IB's timer is probably the shortest you could do for a lot of stuff with how server updates work.

 

[Glendemonium]

So, derailing this for a moment.

I'm leveling Summoner. Just trying to get an idea of stat priority for gear. Lots of conflicting opinions from the official forums so figured I'd ask here.

Spell speed or Critical Hit first? Determination and Accuracy second? Not really planning on doing Savage unless people want me to go. Keeping seeing stuff on Reddit about Spell Speed affecting DOTs now but nothing really concrete. Aside from the Esoteric 210 being best in slot.

Speaking of Eso, was originally planning on getting the 200 pre-relic. Is the only way to 210 a weapon is through Savage or did I hear right about Diadem giving out the same item?

Sorry for the questions, and thanks!

 

[Jayhawk]

If people are looking for a game to play during this game's dead time until the next patch, we could use more players for our multiplayer Civ V games! 12-player game incoming tonight!

 

[HylianScribe]

For healers, FFLogs is super useful for pointing out where your jackass tank isn't using cooldowns or your jackass DPS is popping Blood For Blood at the literal worse times. .

I'm going to make this a macro using this quote in some fashion (probably will say "FFLOGS SAYS AT THIS POINT YOU HAVE BEEN A JACKASS TANK THAT ISN'T USING YOUR COOLDOWNS, SO POP SOMETHING" for when a tank should be popping a CD or DPS should NOT be using B4B. How much in royalties do you want?

 

[SliceSabre]

Enigma and Miunih talk about healing in Alex Savage and a lot of subjects, ranging from healer accuracy to the role of healers in the raid DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH7pSzCrFIs&feature=youtu.be

Oh man, the question about fflogs...

"Should healers care about fflogs?"

Miunih: "No." "...a lot of padding..." "...it's not how you gauge a good healer or dps."

They were mean to us ASTs.



We have to work so hard to be respected by the other healing classes.

Spoiler

Totally why I maxed SCH as well.

 

[Ken]

Ever since they went F2P I've considered going back just for Hutball. GOAT PvP mode. My favorite was going tank BH in there and being the ball handler. So much goddamn fun.

They released an expansion recently didn't they, wonder if it'd be good time to check it out again.


That's a good point, around IB's timer is probably the shortest you could do for a lot of stuff with how server updates work.

Empire scum.

So, derailing this for a moment.

I'm leveling Summoner. Just trying to get an idea of stat priority for gear. Lots of conflicting opinions from the official forums so figured I'd ask here.

Spell speed or Critical Hit first? Determination and Accuracy second? Not really planning on doing Savage unless people want me to go. Keeping seeing stuff on Reddit about Spell Speed affecting DOTs now but nothing really concrete. Aside from the Esoteric 210 being best in slot.

Speaking of Eso, was originally planning on getting the 200 pre-relic. Is the only way to 210 a weapon is through Savage or did I hear right about Diadem giving out the same item?

Sorry for the questions, and thanks!

I think SS is worthless on SMN so still accuracy until you hit the cap of whatever you're doing and then crit/DET. They did change skill and spell speed to affect dots but it's still not enough to want to take it over other stuff.

210 weapons are Anima (relic grind), gob dip esoteric (A4S raid), or Gordian (also A4S).