Last time they tried this with Pharos Sirius everyone cried horror. Also they nerfed the hell out of Mog Hard Mode. I am reserved to the fate that dungeons are mindless grinds at this point without much relevance aside from tomes or being recycled for relic.
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT6| Casino Royale
- Thread starter tiggerkiddo
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Last time they tried this with Pharos Sirius everyone cried horror. Also they nerfed the hell out of Mog Hard Mode. I am reserved to the fate that dungeons are mindless grinds at this point without much relevance aside from tomes or being recycled for relic.
Of course, I mentioned this exact thing earlier? My post was in response to the idea that dungeons couldn't ever be challenging.
If they actually wanted to change this it would need to happen on both angles, give a reward suiting the difficulty. No one wanted to do Pharos because it gave the exact same reward as easier dungeons. Waste of time.
5 major patches out now, I think this isn't ever going to change and this is the lay of the land for massive appeal.
How I missed AV and CC in 1.x D: Actual challenging 8man dungeons.
Tonberry is half English. Coincidence? ( ≖‿≖
http://ff14sc.com/post-21901/
loool the anti foreigner comments. Going to get lynched when I log in.
The glory days!
Augemitbutter
Member
been asking for a proper 4 man dungeon. SE doesn't want to listen. it's easymode or coil. we can't have nice things in between.
dark_chris
Member
I'm having withdrawals now. HALP!
Inbetween doesn't make money apparently.
Interesting view? Here is what I do:
1) If you are a healer who doesn't use non-healing cycles for DPS, I mention it. Continue, I will usually quit on principle.
2) If you are spirit binding gear, I mention it and ask you to change. If they don't change, I'll just sit there at the entrance on principle until someone leaves or they change equipment back.
I had to go easy a bit on #1 when doing the Zodiac Relic grind due to so many lazy healers. Instead of saying things like "you know healers can DPS right?" or "there's a spell called Holy" sarcastically, I would be a bit more nice and say something like "i'm super overgeared for this content, so feel free to cleric stance when you want".
Yes, quitting out of a dungeon and giving yourself a 30 minute lockout for what would have only been an extra 5 minutes to the dungeon is a very interesting view IMO. Same idea for getting mad at someone for doing the dungeon in whatever gear they please for whatever reason. They meet the ilvl requirement? Good, go kill things.
irfaanator
Banned
i go into dungeons to be lazy, if ppl are lazy with me, I'm cool with it
You normally say something sarcastic then quit if they don't listen to you? lol.
30 minute lockout doesn't mean a thing to me though. I just go do something else for 30 mins, either in game, or just IRL.
It's about the game time spent and not having to spend that extra 5 minutes (more like 10 minutes on some dungeons) due to laziness (non-DPSing healers) or selfishness (spirit binding).
It's about the game time spent and not having to spend that extra 5 minutes (more like 10 minutes on some dungeons) due to laziness (non-DPSing healers) or selfishness (spirit binding).
The loot might be useless to us, but not to new players, or those that haven't played in forever. Despite our dislikes, SE does well to appeal all around.
Unknown Soldier
Member
There was actually an interesting (no, seriously. SERIOUSLY) thread in the official forum about this. Because of the demands of dungeon design, how content is balanced, how to make sure players can still progress from being brand new to the game to catch up with endgame content, etc. there's a limit on how hard you can make all non-raid content.
New players are actually entering FFXIV all the time, I see people running around the server with the green leaf icon by their names denoting new player quite a bit and there has to be a way for new players to catch up with endgame. Running the 4-man dungeons and the 24-man instances are the primary method for catching up, whether they are new players, old players running a new alt, or just very casual and don't chase the cutting edge raid content. Less than 5% of WoW players actually raid and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the same case in FFXIV.
The other issue with trying to make "medium" difficulty content is that once your player base has memorized all the mechanics it's no different from "easy" difficulty content unless the mechanics punish you by killing the whole party and then it's "raid" difficulty content anyways. Balancing these kinds of games is not trivial and trying to make content which is neither "easy" nor "raid" difficulty is probably an exercise in futility because of how most MMO players end up playing the game.
Are you saying that crafting materials that sell for next to nothing (your server may vary) is useful to newer players? Even if it's i90 crap gear, it's likely just going to get replaced with Tome gear soon, assuming these new players are even aware of it. (again, I've seen some players in Tam-Tara hard in AF and pinks, and alot of times when asked it's been due to unintentional ignorance)
Pellegri Testament
Member
Always found it funny when people rage at groups and drop party because the group isn't as good as it could be. Really like the ones that clearly make it known that they're dropping to try and prove a point. "Fuck you guys, I'm leaving, have fun with losing a person and having to wait on someone new!!!!"....10secs after they leave...."hey a new guy, man that dude who left sure showed us".
What is this about "wasting time in a group that takes a few minutes longer than others"? Bro you just wasted time sitting your ass in queue for that shit and now have to wait 30mins because your ego couldn't handle running with scrubs and the point you tried to prove was wasted when your spot was filled mere seconds after you left and got hit with an abandon.
What is this about "wasting time in a group that takes a few minutes longer than others"? Bro you just wasted time sitting your ass in queue for that shit and now have to wait 30mins because your ego couldn't handle running with scrubs and the point you tried to prove was wasted when your spot was filled mere seconds after you left and got hit with an abandon.
Next to nothing is still something for the new player. And replaced or not, at least with how it was in the last patch. A player starting from fresh, has one hell of a grind before they could even get Soldiery gear since Sol wasn't dropped early on, and more so now that they removed the cheap myth gear from hunts. I have A FC mate has been going at it causally with just original AF from not playing since launch, and he's only recently made it to first coil iLVL and Extremes..
Worth noting that you can cheese this a bit by queuing with real gear and then swapping afterwards. There's no constant check on the ilvl to make sure you still reach it. Though, you don't get progress on gear too far out anyway so it's not like people are SBing level 45 gear in EXDR. At worst it's maybe a few slots of i70.
I leveled an alt recently and only gave it i70 accessories to help out. It's actually kind of a pain in the ass to get to i90+ gated content without it feeling like a chore. This may change with the increased Soldiery in 2.5 but it would actually take a decent amount of time to get relevant gear to even get to the current EXDR dungeons from a fresh 50. Most the dungeon drops don't really help this process.
Also, I don't think anyone is really happy about the crafting mats the sell for their vendor cost.
Tabris
flaming jackass
(Today, 08:17 PM)
Try not to be so toxic. It will do wonders for the community.
I watch the cast bars of people who just play healer in dungeons.
It's "Cure" "Cure" "Cure" - Oh shit, free cure, nice - "Cure 2", "Cure", "Cure"
For SCH, it's even worse, it's hitting Aldo and Physick every so often, but usually just typing while Eos handles curing for me.
> Complains about people selfishly wasting time spiritbonding in dungeons
> Has a personal policy of wasting 2 DPS time by dropping party if the healer isn't DPSing
> Thinks it's okay because tank queues so fast
You can understand how I'm having a hard time seeing your position as anything other than selfish and hypocritical, right? You don't respect anyone's time but your own; why should anyone else respect yours?
Most of the time tanks pull huge groups so I'm busy keeping them up anyway. If anything the DPS should be the ones doing their job to get the mobs down quickly.
What community? It's a bunch of people from other servers. I let Asami spirit bind (I'll complain though) or anyone else that I was partying with. But DF? May as well be 4chan.
irfaanator
Banned
pretty much. I keep my expectations for dr's low. As long as we aren't wiping to pulls/bosses all the time I consider it a success.
Wait what, doesn't every 50 dungeon drop soldiery? I was under the impression old philosophy became myth which became soldiery.
Isn't playing a bard enough of a break from dps?
Dohohohoho
Okay, but where do the crafting mats come in? Unless he's slowly making his way to affording crafted gear then...? My gripe is that mats are drop from the chests and they shouldn't be, not ilevelx gear. The minor extrinsic value the crafting materials posses is completely negligible for a new player.
Any arguement for their continued inclusion is baffling to me :/
For me as a healer in dungeons, trying to figure out how long I can stay in cleric stance dps'ing without the tank dying is sort of the game within the game.
It would be cool to design an add on for healers in dungeons called the healer game or something. You start with 10,000 points. Points go down every time you go out of cleric stance. If the tank dies you lose like 5,000 points. Highest score wins!
Please note: I'm being facetious. I start to heal once the tank goes down to 1/3-1/2 life.
It would be cool to design an add on for healers in dungeons called the healer game or something. You start with 10,000 points. Points go down every time you go out of cleric stance. If the tank dies you lose like 5,000 points. Highest score wins!
Please note: I'm being facetious. I start to heal once the tank goes down to 1/3-1/2 life.
*-* says the PLD.
The amounts pretty much suck, however.
Then again, I'm spoiled from 2.3 Mythology so I'll reserve full judgment for 2.5 Soldiery.
In very little amounts. I wonder if its to also offset endgame players or something. I don't recall, I just know the fcmate didn't get his hands on sol for awhile and when he did, he'd need it for his relic or something else necessary. It's pretty awful how he long it took for him to finally reach the first coil gate.
You end up spending more time curing in the battle when you don't get a holy spam or shadow flare or whatever in during the heavy cooldown period of a large tank pull.
I've been doing dungeons with Tirazel a lot lately and he often out-DPS' the actual DPS due to low gear players, and it both ensures the mobs are dead on large pulls before the tank starts running out of cooldowns (thus less healing needed) but also immensely speeds up the dungeon run.
That one week I ever did it (when Novus was new and hullbreaker was relevant) and I'm labeled forever.
I'm also super sensitive to dungeon run time since I've been doing the Zodiac grind, which can be brutal. A lot of you with completed Zodiacs did it when everyone else was running them, so you didn't need to deal with as many situations like a DPS with an i49 weapon in Stone Vigil HM. He may as well just sit in the corner and AFK for all that DPS adds to the run. Add a non-DPSing healer to that? Soo slow. And when you gotta run 10-30 of them due to bad drop luck?
Pellegri Testament
Member
Man that's nothing, try doing it with a tank with an Ifrit weapon and 2 dps with 120 weps. Some of those mobs actually hurt when they're on anything but a tank or dragoon. Could the dps and myself have left? sure, but what's the fun in leaving and getting another boring ass run that goes smooth, when you could do something that changes it up for once?
I kinda want to run dungeons as a DPS just so I can understand what it's like with other tanks, but then I would need to spend 30 minutes in queue and be bored the entire dungeon.
I thought it was seeing how long you could disconnect from the game while still effectively tanking a boss.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I played DPS (Pugilist) in a few dungeons and I'm not sure if I like it.
I dislike having to wait for the tank to start things.
I like being in control of when encounters start.
The instant queues are also nice.
Do PLDs do the worst DPS outside of healers (waiting for someone to say that healers out DPS PLDs)?
I dislike having to wait for the tank to start things.
I like being in control of when encounters start.
The instant queues are also nice.
Do PLDs do the worst DPS outside of healers (waiting for someone to say that healers out DPS PLDs)?
I feel like we might need to clarify what kind of Healer DPS we're talking about. Slow pulls (e.g., individual packs) in a dungeon where the healer has no damage to heal? Those are the types of pulls where I wonder what the healer is doing. Full Speedrun pulls, I'd like to see Holy come out of the WHM but I get it if they don't feel comfortable going for it. Scholars, I don't really expect them to try and multiple Bane the pack since Lustrate stacks and all. Both those cases I get why they may not be actively DPSing.
Really, the only times where "pls DPS healer pls" is if the pulls are super slow or during bosses. And in both cases I'm in control of the pace somehow as tank or DPS so it's really more of an observation and not really a demand / expectation.
It depends on a lot of factors. If we're talking going full out DPS mode, PLD would be above WAR due to Sword Oath scaling and both should probably be above healers. If you mean in actual normal content scenarios, PLD in Shield Oath will be the lowest damage but it's not like active DPS Healers are way above them unless they're allowed closer to 100% Cleric stance time or multiple mobs to Holy / multidot.
Really, the only times where "pls DPS healer pls" is if the pulls are super slow or during bosses. And in both cases I'm in control of the pace somehow as tank or DPS so it's really more of an observation and not really a demand / expectation.
It depends on a lot of factors. If we're talking going full out DPS mode, PLD would be above WAR due to Sword Oath scaling and both should probably be above healers. If you mean in actual normal content scenarios, PLD in Shield Oath will be the lowest damage but it's not like active DPS Healers are way above them unless they're allowed closer to 100% Cleric stance time or multiple mobs to Holy / multidot.
My controller died at 25% mark on AV boss and I wasn't able to find charger to plug it in time until it was dead. Stayed on me
I believe it was a BSOD, thank you.
I should just go afk sometime and see how long I last. Character disappearing ruins it.
We had it happen in T13, apparently I did pretty well before game "logged me out" and angry dragon smashes stuff.My controller died at 25% mark on AV boss and I wasn't able to find charger to plug it in time until it was dead. Stayed on me
Assuming big pulls where you can't just cycle target and gotta flash a decent amount, healers should definitely out-DPS the PLD.
As opposed to 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-sentinel-1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-stand in mechanic-1-2-3?
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