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Final Fantasy XIV |OT6| Casino Royale
- Thread starter tiggerkiddo
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Pyros_Eien
Member
Yeah not saying it won't happen, but wouldn't be too surprised if it doesn't either. It's a lot of content to internal test though, so would say likely to still happen, like a one month beta for preorders a few weeks before release, to get some stuff fixed. Hopefully unlike ARR's beta though we get to play the new classes.
Will be interesting. The release schedule seems so aggressive (which is awesome) that it's hard to imagine them fitting in time for a closed (or even open) beta beforehand.
The thought that it's approximately as big as ARR and we know next to nothing about it (related to my post on the previous page fishing for other features) is really exciting to me, especially given that ARR, while new, was them effectively redoing a lot of what 1.0 contained. The devs working with a clean slate and a successful product holds a lot of promise.
The thought that it's approximately as big as ARR and we know next to nothing about it (related to my post on the previous page fishing for other features) is really exciting to me, especially given that ARR, while new, was them effectively redoing a lot of what 1.0 contained. The devs working with a clean slate and a successful product holds a lot of promise.
Everyone remembers T12 bane, nobody remembers when Titan Egi got to be The Man.
Maybe they only make big exploitable errors where summoners are concerned. Which kind of fits.
By now isn't everyone at least i120+? It was a lot harder when HP was lower and missing a Succor or Adlo meant death.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Adventures in finding FcoB group...it seems reading is tough for a lot of people
I remember Chicken Nugget's day in the sun. That's how i got my first ramuh clear for quite awhile.
Bring on the reading carries!
Pyros_Eien
Member
I meant for final coil. Releasing a full raid and only have one issue, which wasn't even like completely gamebreaking, is quite a feat. I remember the last time Blizzard tried to do that and every single encounter was broken(granted, it was a long long time ago with BWL, wonder how they'd do now if they weren't relying on PTR to test everything for free). There were a few things in 2.0, twintania getting stuck outside or whatever it was, whm falling down on the side on titan without dying and keeping aggro with medica, titan egi tanking the beard, all the speedrun stuff and so on. I didn't play for a while so I don't really know about stuff on second coil.
So just had a lovely LotA run where we got to tank the Dragon in the middle. It was pretty fun. Our tank went straight in and started tanking the Bone Dragon while Bs tank (we were A) kept trying to provoke it and failing. After the first wipe (which was due to about 3 - 4 skeles reaching the dragon... that was rather funny), Bs tank went on strike and sat for most of our second and final go at the BD.
He did provoke him briefly near the end to get BD to aim an attack at the raid though but we made it.
After this, everytime our tank would tank something, Bs tank would keep trying to provoke it. Funnily enough, we only wiped once more on Atomos (somehow
) but not on the rest of the instance.
Still it was fun to be in a group that didn't kick the guy tanking BD in the middle and literally only one person had an issue with it being tanked in the middle (which was Bs tank) lol.
edit: nice image of our victory:
He did provoke him briefly near the end to get BD to aim an attack at the raid though but we made it.
After this, everytime our tank would tank something, Bs tank would keep trying to provoke it. Funnily enough, we only wiped once more on Atomos (somehow
) but not on the rest of the instance.Still it was fun to be in a group that didn't kick the guy tanking BD in the middle and literally only one person had an issue with it being tanked in the middle (which was Bs tank) lol.
edit: nice image of our victory:
I think it's more that, they don't adequately test each fight. I often get the impression that they have only a few teams testing these fights, and that they aren't using each class very heavily, so they aren't seeing problems that're glaringly obvious to the community.
Case in point, Dragoon. The issue with Dragoons was pretty obvious to the community for a long, LONG time. Yet nothing was done about it until thousand page plus threads appeared on both the English and Japanese forums carefully detailing the problems with this class, and why people were avoiding using the class in high-end content.
Essentially, they were seemingly unaware of the magnitude of the issue, and the only way that's possible is if their internal testing teams weren't using Dragoons very heavily when testing content. Granted, it's not a HUGE problem. Dragoons were fixed, and as much as people grumble about Summoners they can still hold their weight in FCoB just fine, even if so much of their 130 is kinda crappy for them.
Still, if this is indeed the case, I hope they get another testing team or two going that utilizes different team configurations. If they aren't going to do community testing, it's really the only way to catch these sorts of issues.
(Disclaimer: No I do not think this is a huge issue. This is not alarmist or a rant, just an observation.)
Case in point, Dragoon. The issue with Dragoons was pretty obvious to the community for a long, LONG time. Yet nothing was done about it until thousand page plus threads appeared on both the English and Japanese forums carefully detailing the problems with this class, and why people were avoiding using the class in high-end content.
Essentially, they were seemingly unaware of the magnitude of the issue, and the only way that's possible is if their internal testing teams weren't using Dragoons very heavily when testing content. Granted, it's not a HUGE problem. Dragoons were fixed, and as much as people grumble about Summoners they can still hold their weight in FCoB just fine, even if so much of their 130 is kinda crappy for them.
Still, if this is indeed the case, I hope they get another testing team or two going that utilizes different team configurations. If they aren't going to do community testing, it's really the only way to catch these sorts of issues.
(Disclaimer: No I do not think this is a huge issue. This is not alarmist or a rant, just an observation.)
Having not seriously raided in the game since the first binding coil was the bleeding edge of raiding, were the second and final coil raids better designed than the first? I felt like they were trying to find their footing with some of the stuff in the first section (for example, I couldn't believe the way you were supposed to deal with dive bombs or twisters in Twintania and thought there had to be better ways that people just hadn't figured out... but there apparently were not).
That aside, even from sitting on the sidelines I agree with what you're saying and think they're surprisingly good at releasing balanced and stable content without testing in the way, say, Blizzard would.
Mmm...
Second Coil was better in some respects, but relied too heavily on gimmicks, especially T7. (Such rage!) Additionally, T8 and T9 ended up being solo-tankable, and that ended up being the preferred method for the bulk of the community. Honestly, I didn't enjoy Second Coil much, but it had far fewer glaring mistakes than first Coil.
Final Coil feels, VERY polished in comparison. The fights are reasonably difficult without being overly gimmicky, there are mechanics that force you to go two tank, overall it's just more fun.
It is probably very bad form to do so but i would like to see if any FFXIV Neogaffers want to help. I am taking donations for the Muscular Dystrophy Associations annual lock up event. If anyone would like to donate even a tiny bit, PM me as i doubt i am allowed to post the link.
Its my first time going out and helping my local community so im just trying to help.
As for FFXIV stuff, light farming isnt so bad as people told me. Then again it was nerfed and im riding that extra light train. Hope to hit Zodiac by the time 2.51 hits...which puts me amother two steps behind again. Lol
Its my first time going out and helping my local community so im just trying to help.
As for FFXIV stuff, light farming isnt so bad as people told me. Then again it was nerfed and im riding that extra light train. Hope to hit Zodiac by the time 2.51 hits...which puts me amother two steps behind again. Lol
So just had a lovely LotA run where we got to tank the Dragon in the middle. It was pretty fun. Our tank went straight in and started tanking the Bone Dragon while Bs tank (we were A) kept trying to provoke it and failing. After the first wipe (which was due to about 3 - 4 skeles reaching the dragon... that was rather funny), Bs tank went on strike and sat for most of our second and final go at the BD.
He did provoke him briefly near the end to get BD to aim an attack at the raid though but we made it.
After this, everytime our tank would tank something, Bs tank would keep trying to provoke it. Funnily enough, we only wiped once more on Atomos (somehow
Still it was fun to be in a group that didn't kick the guy tanking BD in the middle and literally only one person had an issue with it being tanked in the middle (which was Bs tank) lol.
edit: nice image of our victory:
Where should it be tanked if not the middle?
I usually consider B tank to be default MT unless there is a major gear difference.
Final Coil seems to have a better design when it comes to naturally easing difficulty than SCoB did. The parts I've seen thusfar all become way, way easier as you gear up and get the natural increase in DPS/Defense/HP. Second Coil was lousy with one-shots while a lot of the stuff that was fatal in the early days of Final Coil is probably survivable now. They shouldn't have to nerfbat Final Coil quite as hard outside of gear and Echo. There are still things they could do, but I'm guessing post-Nerf Final Coil will be much closer to current than, say, modern-day T7 is to the soul-destroying original.
Primal servers tend to tank him north. It doesn't really matter but people on both sides get super invested in tanking him in the "right" spot. Because CT isn't filled with enough stupidity as it is.
Primal servers tend to tank him north. It doesn't really matter but people on both sides get super invested in tanking him in the "right" spot. Because CT isn't filled with enough stupidity as it is.
The north.
Tanking it in the center is almost a guaranteed wipe, as the skeles spawn right.there. Just easier to have the BD far away from all the commotion IMO.
Hm. I think it's more that they don't really test things alongside public perception. Like, Dragoons could clear the content and would do okay damage wise. It was harder to pull off their damage, sure, but failed mechanics were wipes in SCoB and not really just raw damage out so their defenses didn't matter as much there. Dragoons were "fine" in testing then. The problem was they weren't "fine" enough to the general public so it became a question of "why bother using a Dragoon?" With limited slots in a party, there's always going to be something that has to try extra hard to justify their use.
As for Titan-Egi and the beard or Bane'd Blackfires, it's worth noting that both are weird edge case things. Like, there's really not a reason to think of using Titan-Egi on Ramuh outside of "lol because." Baning from a Blackfire is backwards conceptually since it means manually casting DoTs on them and then Baning from them to Phoenix vs burning them down as fast as possible. It's weird to not catch it, sure, but I can sort of understand how they can be missed.
Yeah, but every other data center tanks him mid, because if you do the mechanics correctly it gives you the most space to spread the skeletons out. Both work fine and have worked fine for ages. Flexibility to handle multiple strats is not a general trait of the community, but it should be. Most mid-tanking-wipes I've seen have been mostly a result of die-hard north tank fans refusing to play ball. Same thing for north-tank wipes caused by mid tanking purists.
Basically rigidly insisting on anything that doesn't ultimately matter is just going to increase the odds of a bad time.
Phoenix fight is probably the most relaxing when it comes to punishing you for mistakes. You can fuck up Blackfire and live, you can heal through Redfire blast if you're lucky, you can misplace Bennus once and not immediately wipe.
It will punish you, but it will not outright wipe the attempt.
On the other hand you have Imdugud who's all like "no death run please".
You're on a Japanese DC aren't you
It will punish you, but it will not outright wipe the attempt.
On the other hand you have Imdugud who's all like "no death run please".
You're on a Japanese DC aren't you
creid
Member
Non-Primal data centers seem to do it just fine.
Being Japanese devs, they largely know how to QA and test stuff internally ahead of release unlike their western "the-whole-world-is-your-QA-team" counterparts.
I agree. I'm not advocating for just one strategy, but just based on what I've seen, northern tanking is more efficient. I'm sure tanking in the middle is fine too if the raid is into it and doesn't immediately riot.
LoTA is a hot mess any way you slice it.
I guess so. I wouldn't know, since I've only ever been on the NA data center. Just speaking from personal experience. I've run CT dozens of times (oh my god where has my life gone) and it's always the same problems with the BD.
Necrophilia never seems to be a good strategy in those raids.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Somehow did a CT speedrun where we didn't wipe on Bone Dragon...but we did wipe on Atomos due to a dps that wouldn't listen to us...=(
Gamer @ Heart
Member
I have never not seen a redfire fuck up not result in a wipe. How do you have to get lucky? I know you're a healer so im curious.
You just heal through it? I've done that on my alt. It's not unhealable damage. Not really a question of luck since the attacks are scripted.
Well, I guess you can count crits as luck I guess.
Pyros_Eien
Member
Passing the mark while also taking red fire damage sounds like it'd be kinda luck based depending on when the tick happens, how much damage you take, if you crit adlo beforehand and stuff like that. And then you still need to be in range of the group for big aoe heals.
I'm sure it's possible, it just generally ends up with a healer dead 5secs later when you pass the mark without being topped off from what I've seen.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Augemitbutter
Member
i enjoy zodiac so far. helping some noobs is cool and i can run these dungeons fairly well with 2 of them in. but why is AK my shittdungeon now? i ran this place so many times in 2.0. ugh. give me something else.
edgefusion
Member
Another week and another lot of FCoB treasure coffers containing no Monk loot. Must be going on 4 months now. :/
I filed a bug report asking them to fix our statics loot tables. Clearly theres a glitch in the system somewhere. I refuse to believe anyone could come up with a loot system this stupid.
I filed a bug report asking them to fix our statics loot tables. Clearly theres a glitch in the system somewhere. I refuse to believe anyone could come up with a loot system this stupid.
WHERE'S MY FUCKING TANK DROP YOSHIDA? So far I have more DRG drops than tank coil drops. We don't even run DRG.
Nope.
They've had a good track record in terms of stability, no mishaps like T5. Second coil really seems like a very...experimental? time for them. First coil was extremely basic in mechanics in comparison, and it was there as a building block sort of thing. Second coil just throws a ton of different mechanics, often pass/fail, at you non stop without any real sense of pacing. Which is why I think it destroyed as many statics as it did. Redoing the same mechanics over and over because someone messed up one of the 15 different pass/fails was frustrating at times. In third coil, they have really taken what they learned from second and went back to the more simpler nature of first while keeping the challenge of second in. Mechanics build upon themselves more naturally, and it never really feels like a slog. T13 is the longest fight in the game at 14m enrage, but it was so so much easier to learn than T9, and much better paced. The whole fight fits together better, rather than a marathon of mechanic changes every few minutes.
I'm not sure that's really an issue of testing each fight. In terms of actual fight mechanics, they have been remarkably good in regards to making sure the mechanics itself operate as they intended to. The only really major lapse they had was with T5 as a whole in 2.0, the twisters were a mess and they actually shut down the entire instance for a couple weeks to fix all the misc issues. I don't think having them test the fight under different party compositions would really work, because the problem is just so much more integral than that. They will think every class is fine because they will always use a preplanned strategy, the one they believed would be the intended strategy, but they can't really foresee how players actually will approach it.
Which is the bigger issue, and this is most definitely not limited to instanced content, that they often show a complete lack of understanding how the player base will approach any situation. This shows up in regards to class balancing, how a group will attempt to clear an encounter, how players will approach things like crafting, hunts, pvp...pretty much everything really. It is immensely frustrating at times, because pretty much every patch we get something they need to retune down the line simply because they didn't consider how players would actually interact with it. They are incredibly, arguably willingly at times, blind to how a normal player would perceive content. Bright side is they are at least willing to listen to the player's side if we are loud enough, but it is again frustrating because we always get into these (sometimes obvious) situations when they could of been avoided.
Maybe in terms of game breaking bugs, but in a multiplayer game situation you need to understand your community and they have shown repeatedly they do not. In this regard we still act as their testers, as we get content that was not fully thought out and requires a large amount of time before it reaches their original goal for the content.
The game massively needs a test server in my opinion. So many of the games biggest issues/controversies could of been avoided had players been able to give feedback beforehand. I understand they do not want to spoil the story ahead of time, but that is something that is easily fixed. You can disable quest lines/cutscenes and let us test core mechanics/ideas - they showed this exact ability in beta.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Only 4 months? I didn't get a Coil 1 drop as Bard from BC until Jan of 2014. RNG is the bane of all men.
Tanking Bone Dragon someplace other than the middle platform is a primal thing. If you tank him anywhere else you are a terrible tank and should feel bad.
Wiping on bone dragon is almost expected now due to too much dps on him and not enough focus on Platinals.
cultureculture
Member
I think the problem with FCOB loot is that they've packed too much loot into too few chests. Having a 1/10 chance to drop a specific item once a week is just way too restrictive, especially when the system allows for getting stuff that no one can use. Without getting into a long-winded conversation about secondary stats, you already have three pairs of jobs that share all their drops (WAR/PLD, SCH/WHM, BLM/SMN), but people who play the other four jobs just have to suck it up, and so does the rest of the group because everyone goes unrewarded for their efforts if their physical DPS just happened to be the wrong kind of physical DPS that week. I'm not saying make MNK/DRG and BRD/NIN share gear, but take for example a chest that drops DRG gloves and MNK gloves - why can't that just be a trade-in item for STR-based gloves of either kind?
I'd take it further and have the drops be based on role, like physdps/magic dps/healer/tank. Or a mix/match of roles on a single item like WoW did at one point.
They talked about considering a token system for future raids in Heavensward I think? Our only hope is there. The loot tables are going to get more bloated over time as they add new classes, it's an issue they will need to address at some point. The antique gear stuff from 2.4 dungeons show that they are capable of doing it.
This is how you get the issues with SMN itemization at i130. Spell Speed is mainly a BLM stat and it's all over the place due to a shared loot pool.
cultureculture
Member
Let the BLM roll on that token then and roll on it second so you can get your glamours. Some of the single-job gear is shittily-itemised already, so I think itemisation is a separate issue to the issue of not being properly rewarded for participating in raids.
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