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Final Fantasy XIV |OT6| Casino Royale

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scy

Member
People make the DRG Magic Defense out to be a bigger hinderance than it really is, just like you said. You either live or you die. The amount of damage a DRG would take is partially mitigated by their health and mostly mitigated by the healers. Even as a BRD with those incredibly superior defensive numbers I can get one or two shot by screwing up mechanics in T10. Like Ken said, there are DRG who have cleared T12. Shit's not impossible. Not even remotely.

Better yet: The most consistent source of magic damage in T10 is mitigation irrelevant. it deals a static amount. The rest is mechanics based and dying to it most likely leads to raid wipes anyway.

T12 is the one encounter where I'd say it's possibly bad news to have a DRG but it's raid wide damage anyway so there's constant heals going out from the start. DRGs are still going to have better EHP vs these attacks than, say, both Healers and casters (barring VIT accessories).

You are assuming because you can cheese Megaflare on 9 that you can do the same later on in Final Coil where that's simply not the case because the two attacks are not the same.

I feel like the best way to put it is that a lot of the numbers thrown around are raw damage numbers. For instance, I need roughly 6000 HP to survive an attack in Phase 3 of T11. Sacred Soil and Succor + natural HP gets me there. If I can gear beyond 6k, I'll survive without it.

It's not really cheesing it, per se, but that target HP numbers can, and often do, include Stoneskin / Adlo for figuring out how to get to it. Getting to that number _without_ them is the goal, however, since it alleviates healer burden.

That said, there's still plenty of attacks that I'd be overkilled so hard by without a full debuff and buff setup anyway that I'm pretty sure I'll never reach a VIT level to survive it otherwise.
 
Jumped on last night during the free weekend and played the 2.4 story up until the Snowcloak dungeon, by which time I was tired and went to bed. I dunno guys, I think I might have to resub, I got pretty interested.
 

scy

Member
Please, tell me, because I'm so curious as to which one of my statements is so blasted controversial this time. 9_9

It stems back to this:

Gear can help to a certain extent, but in my experience, most fights end up being decided mostly (lets say 80%) by skill level.

It seems to be based around this idea that the gear is of marginal importance vs skill. Realistically, for many of these fights gear serves as the starting point: You must be this tall to ride. Skill doesn't matter at all up to that point. You must meet certain requirements first. Skill takes over once you reach that point, and it's what lets you mess with HOW you reach that starting point but that starting gear point is a requirement. Final Coil have damage numbers you're expected to take and damage you need to put out. How you get to those values is one thing but you still have to reach those values.

In regards to that T13 discussion, you're saying "gear helps but not required if you do it right" but it's ignoring that doing it right still requires that gear for it to work. Hooray, you Tank LB'd in time! Everyone was sub-6000 and died anyway!

Doing things "right" doesn't negate gear. It negates overgearing but not the minimum.
 

Sorian

Banned
Right.

I don't understand where all the energy and time for these weekly arguments come from.

I'm on hold on the phones a lot at work.

My assessment is not far from the truth when there is a WolvenOne vs everybody else type of argument on a weekly basis in these OTs.

Let's be real. If we cut out all the in fighting and bitching about the game, we'd still be in OT1.
 

WolvenOne

Member
It stems back to this:



It seems to be based around this idea that the gear is of marginal importance vs skill. Realistically, for many of these fights gear serves as the starting point: You must be this tall to ride. Skill doesn't matter at all up to that point. You must meet certain requirements first. Skill takes over once you reach that point, and it's what lets you mess with HOW you reach that starting point but that starting gear point is a requirement. Final Coil have damage numbers you're expected to take and damage you need to put out. How you get to those values is one thing but you still have to reach those values.

In regards to that T13 discussion, you're saying "gear helps but not required if you do it right" but it's ignoring that doing it right still requires that gear for it to work. Hooray, you Tank LB'd in time! Everyone was sub-6000 and died anyway!

Doing things "right" doesn't negate gear. It negates overgearing but not the minimum.

Except gear does matter, or else everyone would still be in AF1.

No, in context of this discussion, I'm referring to ivl110 armor, and 115 weapons, for T10 and T11. Equipment which I know for a fact that Asami's group has, and which should be sufficient for the content that group is tackling right now. IE, said group should be past the minimum gear check requirements, at which point it is mostly a matter of skill or practice.

Again, obviously there are gear checks in this game, to even assert otherwise would be so ridiculous that the notion couldn't even be taken seriously.

Instead, people assumed that I was just stating something ridiculous, again. 9_9
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Except gear does matter, or else everyone would still be in AF1.

No, in context of this discussion, I'm referring to ivl110 armor, and 115 weapons, for T10 and T11. Equipment which I know for a fact that Asami's group has, and which should be sufficient for the content that group is tackling right now. IE, said group should be past the minimum gear check requirements, at which point it is mostly a matter of skill or practice.

Again, obviously there are gear checks in this game, to even assert otherwise would be so ridiculous that the notion couldn't even be taken seriously.

Instead, people assumed that I was just stating something ridiculous, again. 9_9

Turn 10 is i110 minimum but you basically need a perfect run. There is no gear carry here.
 

Jayhawk

Member
Please, my glamour looks ballin. And, assuming I havent 90k'd at home, everyone should join my character next to the summoning bell in the mist as she looks at the sky.

Did you know you can direct where your character is looking with the Pause/Break key on the keyboard? Holding that key down makes your character look at the camera. With this knowledge, everybody can join you and look up.
 

Sorian

Banned
Did you know you can direct where your character is looking with the Pause/Break key on the keyboard? Holding that key down makes your character look at the camera. With this knowledge, everybody can join you and look up.

That is my hope. I only do it because I know a lot of people don't know about that and if I can make someone pause and try to figure what the hell I'm targeting in the sky then I've won.
 

Jayhawk

Member
Turn 10 is i110 minimum but you basically need a perfect run. There is no gear carry here.

My group's kill yesterday had Pit Bull die during LB3 and Mithril die twice from ???.
My shoulders are sore for some reason.
I think the crafted gear helped a lot with overcoming those deaths.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
My group's kill yesterday had Pit Bull die during LB3 and Mithril die twice from ???.
My shoulders are sore for some reason.
I think the crafted gear helped a lot with overcoming those deaths.

You guys have a bunch of crafted stuff and some i120 pieces now, no?
 

WolvenOne

Member
Turn 10 is i110 minimum but you basically need a perfect run. There is no gear carry here.

Wasn't saying that 110 wasn't the minimum, 90 was essentially the minimum for SCOB, there isn't any reason to assume it'd be any different.

But regardless, "I'd be clearing this if we had better gear," isn't exactly the attitude you should be taking if your intent on being a serious progression type player.
 

Jayhawk

Member
You guys have a bunch of crafted stuff and some i120 pieces now, no?

I think each DPS has 2, maybe 3, pieces of crafted gear to help us with both T10 and T11. All the other DPS, except me, spent poetics on a piece or two. I haven't spent any poetics yet. We were reaching single digits, including multiple times at 1% before we got this gear though. Just posting some data for those people still learning T10.
 

scy

Member
But regardless, "I'd be clearing this if we had better gear," isn't exactly the attitude you should be taking if your intent on being a serious progression type player.

I really don't think anybody is trying to say this. Just that better gear alleviates the pressure of the kill. No longer killing inside soft enrages / during hard enrage animations. Saving 15-20 seconds is a fairly big deal this early on the content.
 

Jayhawk

Member
I really don't think anybody is trying to say this. Just that better gear alleviates the pressure of the kill. No longer killing inside soft enrages / during hard enrage animations. Saving 15-20 seconds is a fairly big deal this early on the content.

Better gear provides more room for error and could be the difference between soul-crushing defeats or victories. If people are serious in beating content, wanting to take advantage of available gear upgrades is not a bad thing. I'm not sure what WolvenOne is trying to argue at this point, other than for the sake of arguing.
 

WolvenOne

Member
Yes, better gear eases things up, no argument.

But if people are dying to avoidable mechanics, several times, that's not a gear problem.
 

scy

Member
I'm fully on-board the crafted gear train (need the belt now, I guess). Just saying that nobody here is saying "We have the skill to do it but need the gear now." It's more "we can do it, the gear would make it cleaner."

The closest is saying nobody here will be doing T13 without the i120/i130 gear to back it up unless they go with VIT accessories. Which ... uh ... is true. We'll need to reach certain HP (and DPS) levels somehow. Which is a combination of VIT accessories and gitting gud.
 

iammeiam

Member
I put up a PF for T8 learning.



Apparently, no one wants to learn T8 :(

T8 is a coordination bitch and highly variable depending on groups. I tagged along with two different groups filled with people with a lot of T8 experience last week. One basically farmed it, the other was the funniest best worst thing ever (the Avatar spinning endlessly during brainjacks will never stop being hilarious.)

T8 in PF just sounds like a pain in the ass.
 

WolvenOne

Member
So you're basically telling your old coil group to git gud.

Asami responded to a statement that had nothing to do with their group, and asserted their situation into the discussion.

Honestly, I want that group to do well, there are plenty of people in there I like. But I didn't bring them up, nor did I mention them specifically until pressed.
 

Nohar

Member
I'm getting the hang of money-making, after months of doing nothing but crafting crafter gear (which is not very profitable and incredibly time-consuming - well, crafting is time-consuming per default). Just being a good culinarian is wonderful: nothing beats being self-sufficent when it comes to food.

I'm still slowly but surely catching up: BRD 103, PLD 95, WHM/SCH 85. I was very lucky with PLD drops: I was ilvl 49 just a week ago. Beat Leviathan EX, Mog EX and Ramuh EX. Actually, I beat Mog EX with 7 other guys who never beat it before (I used the mission tool), took us only 3 tries. Next one is Shiva, but I kinda fear my ilvl is still a little too low (I really want to get rid of my last i90 piece of gear of my Bard, the body... Amon's Coat, why do you elude me?). I also need to build the motivation to clear T5.
I still don't know if I should spend my poetics on my Bard or my Paladin... The thing is my free company is full of healers (like, really, there is not a single one of them who didn't main healer at one point or another), so it might be a better idea to refrain from spending poetics on those jobs for now (despite me taking a liking to playing WHM).
 

iammeiam

Member
I'm still slowly but surely catching up: BRD 103, PLD 95, WHM/SCH 85. I was very lucky with PLD drops: I was ilvl 49 just a week ago. Beat Leviathan EX, Mog EX and Ramuh EX. Actually, I beat Mog EX with 7 other guys who never beat it before (I used the mission tool), took us only 3 tries. Next one is Shiva, but I kinda fear my ilvl is still a little too low (I really want to get rid of my last i90 piece of gear of my Bard, the body... Amon's Coat, why do you elude me?). I also need to build the motivation to clear T5.

Why Amon's Coat? The bard soldiery body is really, really good.

Shiva you probably don't have to worry about too much, although I don't know what your HP is. I still occasionally get murdered if I get a Hailstorm and can't make it back to the healers before Absolute Zero starts (Second Wind does not help).
 

Sorian

Banned
Asami responded to a statement that had nothing to do with their group, and asserted their situation into the discussion.

Honestly, I want that group to do well, there are plenty of people in there I like. But I didn't bring them up, nor did I mention them specifically until pressed.

Quote the post where I "asserted our situation into the discussion." Seriously, do it. I want to know where this happened because I think you are talking out of your ass (again). None of my posts from the last few hours should have an edited message on them so no foul play. Ball is in your court.
 

Nohar

Member
Why Amon's Coat? The bard soldiery body is really, really good.

Shiva you probably don't have to worry about too much, although I don't know what your HP is. I still occasionally get murdered if I get a Hailstorm and can't make it back to the healers before Absolute Zero starts (Second Wind does not help).

Mostly because of the look, but yes, at this point you are right, I should get the soldiery body. Sands are hard to come by though, which is one of the reasons why I want to unlock T6+ and find a decent party to farm those (I think I've done enough CT2 for a while). Though, well, I guess it won't be as easy as I think, even with good players, and I'll probably need some training before becoming really useful.
As for my HP, I think I'm just a little above 5000. I would need to check that though next time I play.

@Tabris: At first I was curious, then I saw your title... Curiosity vanished instantly.
 

Drac

Member
"Saw" one P3 on T11 and died while trying to finish off the egg node. For 3h passed on the fight, I think we are making nice progress ! Too bad we could not raid more because of IRL problem but still pretty happy about it.

Any high level advice for monk ? Reading some number on this topic make my head spin, My best on T10/11 is 450 with food and strength potion, how the heck do you reach 500 o_O ? I really don't see what I can do more.
For reference, on striking dummy alone with no group/food/potion buffs I'm sitting at 470 for 4 minutes. Is my loss only due to placement because of mechanics and stuff ? I don't feel like I am missing a lot of positional hits though :/
 

ThinFinn

Member
Hmmm, it looks like we weren't able to pull off the numbers required for a T11 clear.

Might be due to inexperience/jitters, but our dps takes a significant dip during the adds and final phase. Apparently, magic resistance on the sphere is really hurting our smn's ability to dish out competent numbers.

She is keen on switching to ninja for the fight though, so I guess it's back to farming T9 for weapons (Dragoon lacks a HA weapon too).

The weekly reset of tomes and upgrades from certain i120 pieces, should also serve as the push we need to down this turn!
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Hmmm, it looks like we weren't able to pull off the numbers required for a T11 clear.

Might be due to inexperience/jitters, but our dps takes a significant dip during the adds and final phase. Apparently, magic resistance on the sphere is really hurting our smn's ability to dish out competent numbers.

She is keen on switching to ninja for the fight though, so I guess it's back to farming T9 for weapons (Dragoon lacks a HA weapon too).

The weekly reset of tomes and upgrades from certain i120 pieces, should also serve as the push we need to down this turn!

What is your party composition?
 
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