Those tanks are the worst, seriously. I mean fine if you're even able to hold hate, but taking 20% more dmg when tanking is just stupid.
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Final Fantasy XIV |OT7| 1000 years DRAGONSONG War
- Thread starter suzu
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Those tanks are the worst, seriously. I mean fine if you're even able to hold hate, but taking 20% more dmg when tanking is just stupid.
I think people forget/don't know the enmity rotation is still ~3x their damage (1x, 3x, 5x multipliers) on the skills. Shield Oath just doubles it. I still have time to Fracture and Shield Swipe for damage and not lose threat, the only rough part is the opener where the 1 GCD lead may not always be enough for good crits.
Considering how much overhealing tends to happen, the damage increase isn't exactly that relevant. Avoiding outright dying is the most important part and everything else is fine. Besides, T6 doesn't do that much damage anyway, doesn't last that long, and has a tank swap. Just ride cooldowns properly.
But, yeah, healing is the hard part of Sword Oath tanking, not the threat.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Sword Oath + Fight or Flight gives more enmity than using shield + FF, at least for the first combos.
Also, if you can go Sword on a fight, at that point it means your whole party dosn't need your extra pitiful tank DPS.
I always try to play it safe, you are a tank, not a DPS, and if you want to DPS, you should be a WAR at least.
gabrielt16
Member
Only missing WoD bard boots and I have full set. Wondering if I should bother getting the coil bard set or if I can stay with WoD gear? Asking cuz I don't have that much time to sink into coil and I have only managed to do Turn 1 and 2 with DF since I dont have a static group ):
Also what are my options for accessories above ilvl100? Poetics and coil?
Also what are my options for accessories above ilvl100? Poetics and coil?
Rose of Eternity
Banned
How many people here are running dps meters? Is ACT the way to go?
Sure, I get where you're coming from. I haven't got any data but I would guess optimal play would be Shield Oath for the damage reduction a long with a healer who doesn't overheal and use the downtime to DPS.
Even when I would be able to hold hate with Swoard Oath I never tank in it unless it's a real pushover fight - in any other situations I'd just feel rude.
Or like, a DPS.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Shiva and Ramux EX accessories.
Also crafted ones.
I mean, if you really want to DPS as a tank, at least bring the one who has the better tools for it...
You mean Sword Oath and Fight or Flight?
gabrielt16
Member
Oohh thanks.
I havent unlocked Shiva yet but I think I have Ramuh EX. Gonna try that one.
I havent unlocked Shiva yet but I think I have Ramuh EX. Gonna try that one.
irfaanator
Banned
act is pretty much the only way to go now.
Let's just go 8 PLD with some cross-class cure action thrown in.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
No I mean Maim, Storm's Eye and Berserk
...why?
I mean, the tank fixation on max deeps always weirds me out (DPS obsession in general makes me awkward and uncomfortable and it baffles me to want to worry about that on top of another job, but whatever makes people happy), but the community's obsession with PLD for mitigation always and forever and WAR for DPS OT always and forever is weirder.
Sword Oath is ridiculous and people seem to under credit it; "WAR is the only tank DPS option" seems just as silly and blind to me as "PLD is the only MT option." What's viable ultimately depends on who's in the group, but if the healers can handle it I don't see the inherent evil.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Is it fine just right out of the box? I don't need much other than party dps.
Is this actually viable the way 8 WAR groups are?
Parse a WAR using Maim, Storm's Eye and Berserk against a PLD using Sword Oath and Fight of Flight on the same dummy and see who puts out more DPS. You can even have a healer there to remove Pacification.
All those people who wanna have a Dark Knight, you already can.
What's good is going to entirely depend on what you're doing with your Bard. You'll run into accuracy problems in Coil going full WoD, but if you're not going into Coil your gear kind of doesn't matter? The WoD chest and hat are legitimately good pieces for anyone, the boots are good if you don't need accuracy. The pants are okay, I guess, again if you don't need accuracy (the bard pant situation outside of Coil is kind of bad right now.) The belt and gloves should be replaced with the poetics belt/gloves because <3 Crit/Det.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
For me the issue is interesting for two reasons:
1. If damage capability is not what sets war and pld tank apart, what is? In other mmos it would be things such as - avoidance vs mitigation, single target vs aoe, white damage vs crit, self healing vs armor type.
While there are small cases for all of these between pld and war, it's not as apparent as in other games. That may also simply be because there are only two tank classes in this game, a very small number, and most of the gear is shared. So if it only comes down to playstyle of abilities and rotation, most people genuinely don't know which to pick without actually having to play both at a fairly high level.
2. Tank dps actually does matter. This is true in most mmos. I've seen a lot of strange attitudes in regards to tank dps and even threat management for this game. While it'd be great if this game was completely unique from the mmo standards, it really isn't. Tank dps can mean the difference between a 1% wipe and a clear, and dps have such an obvious tendency to not watch their threat in this game that the extra dps is essentially needed to counter that.
Honestly? Because people don't know better I guess? To be fair, WAR OT DPS is a lot easier to maintain for everyone + Shield Oath and cooldowns allow for better mitigation. The optimizing for both is really more about getting as much mitigation as needed and no more which is what lends itself for WAR MT / PLD OT situations.
So PLD MT + WAR OT is just simpler outright.
As one of those people, the tank DPS thing is mostly just because it's fun. The DPS obsession in general is basically just because it's the easiest to measure since ... well, numbers are numbers. So it's just an easy to see thing on "how good I'm doing" sort of basis.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
War is the only one of the two that can reach full DPS potential while being on their defensive stance, enjoying that extra crit bonus, for only 20 seconds, but on a lot of scenarios that just plain superior than PLD.
I mean, is pretty clear who was divised to have that subrole between both of the two looking at his skills.
irfaanator
Banned
yea all you need is the ffxiv plugin and you're good to go. There are adjustments to the settings that you can change for visual purpose
What does this even mean? -25% damage = full DPS potential?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I did, WAR won at the end for the same duration (what last Berserk).
Unchained...
Did you even played WAR?
Let's see some gearsets and receipts.
I ignored the rest of your statement after seeing you post about a parse without a screenshot.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I see
*shrug*
I don't remember, was months ago, but I think that the Axe had Crit while my curtana didn't at the time (it dosn't now neither lol), so yeah, that might influnced, for the rest of the gear it was exactly the same. It was a quick test when I was bored, I don't even use parsers now, I was testing my DRG rotation and just did a WAR and PLD test for fun.
But yeah, you don't have to believe me.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
I'm loving the warrior spirit but that's not exactly how you do a parse test between classes. Your results are anecdotal because of the casual nature of the testing.
So you parsed yourself against yourself at different times months ago? One of the main points of my challenge was parsing against each other at the same exact time on the same mob, so the slashing debuff would be on.
Pyros_Eien
Member
The problem is PLD DPS can't just be randomly tested, you need to optimize for it. Specifically, you need the fastest weapon in your level range. I don't really know what's fastest between Zeta, Dreadwyrm and potentially Ironworks, but the fastest is the one you want due to how Sword Oath works. Meanwhile for WAR, it's the normal "pick the best weapon" kind of thing.
But Sword Oath is quite scary damage. Sure you've seen the WARs put out the big numbers and shit, but it's mostly because most groups have the PLD tank in tank stance and the WAR DPS, so you mostly see WARs doing DPS. I'm trying to find it but wasn't there a japanese parse with the Paladin doing like 400ish DPS? Granted WARs can do even more than that I think, but still that's not like super far behind and I don't know if anyone really runs a full DPS PLD.
But Sword Oath is quite scary damage. Sure you've seen the WARs put out the big numbers and shit, but it's mostly because most groups have the PLD tank in tank stance and the WAR DPS, so you mostly see WARs doing DPS. I'm trying to find it but wasn't there a japanese parse with the Paladin doing like 400ish DPS? Granted WARs can do even more than that I think, but still that's not like super far behind and I don't know if anyone really runs a full DPS PLD.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
So PLD has to access to the WAR debuff in their parsers? WAR can always access to the debuff, PLD does not...
I thought the challenge was to see who was better individually.
Because you're doing DPS races in solo content? In a party environment, that slashing debuff will be on the mob most of the time unless you have two PLDs and zero NINs.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
A lot of content is done with one tank or 4 man raids. I don't think is fair to assume a PLD will access to the slashing debuff always when comparing strenghts between jobs.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
I would actually agree that I'd expect a separate parse for with slash debuff and without.
There are 4 man raids in this game? Considering this argument started from discussions about off-tank DPS, that implies at least two tanks.
2.32 Relic, 2.08 Dreadwyrm, 2.0 Ironworks, though I believe Dreadwyrm still beats out Ironworks here.
That one, for instance? Less slashing debuff uptime for the PLD + some AoE. T11/T12 tend to be more PLD oriented if I recall, though it's been awhile for any of these. Even T13 is competitive with the whole "JP is crazy, tank swap for F&F rotation" that Lucrezia likes to do.
But, yeah, PLD DPS is more reliant on extra factors compared to WAR just sort of capable of doing it because they themselves want to push DPS.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Bombard Cores if you want to do the relic quest.
Anybody know if there's a way (on PC) to copy character settings to a new character? Specifically looking for UI settings and shared hotbar settings. I imagine there's a config file somewhere on my computer that I can just copy but not sure where to find it.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
On Windows, they're in My Games/FFXIVwhatever/FFXIV_CHRsomerandomnumbers.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Soooo I want to start progressing with my BTN, have only been using it to get clusters for cash after I hit 50. Did some reading on what I need to catch up on and I'm gonna get a friend to meld some of my i55 gear and my jewelry. It looks like it might be a good idea to just buy the forager body piece outright but the remaining AF gear seems okay to meld so I can start gathering the HQ logs. I don't have an excess amount of gil to burn so I doubt I can afford all the forager pieces right now. But if I'm straight up wasting time/money by melding my i55 gear, I'll work on saving up more for now and skip them.
I see that the gathering requirement for the fragrant logs was lowered down to 353 but it still makes sense to try and get up to 377 gathering right? So I can jump right into 2* gathering once I have my forager hat and tool?
I've got a lot of reading to do ._. so behind on this stuff
I see that the gathering requirement for the fragrant logs was lowered down to 353 but it still makes sense to try and get up to 377 gathering right? So I can jump right into 2* gathering once I have my forager hat and tool?
I've got a lot of reading to do ._. so behind on this stuff
gabrielt16
Member
This is my stat situation right now:
Accuracy 502
Critical Hit Rate 455
Determination 272
What do you recommend me to do?? D:
I plan to do coil eventually but it's not a priority right now.
Alright, thanks!
If you don't plan on doing relic stuff (and these Bombard Cores aren't needed until much later), you can always just get an infinite number of Ventures!
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Yeah, there's not too much use for seals. The crafting mats you can buy may have had their prices stabilize a bit but the prices aren't that great.
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Yeah, there's not too much use for seals. The crafting mats you can buy may have had their prices stabilize a bit but the prices aren't that great.
Phoenix944
Member
I don't know if it has been said but, do we know if they plan to reduce the xp required to up lvl 50 (from lvl1) ?
Pyros_Eien
Member
They haven't said. It's possible, but we'll only know once they start revealing more details on how the new jobs will work and stuff like that. I think mid april is the next live letter or so.
So this is the accuracy requirements for everything in the game right now.
Your current accuracy is fine for pretty much anything outside of final coil--if you go into T9 you'll probably miss some in the final phase, but no giant deal, and you're over flank cap for Shiva so.
Your general goal for gear is to meet the accuracy requirement for whatever you're trying to do. Once that's done, assuming everything is the same iLevel, you want to get as much Crit and Det as possible. Extra accuracy is worthless, and skillspeed is pretty much garbage. In general, higher iLevel gear is usually better, but bard itemization in some of the poetics stuff is jacked up--there's a lot of accuracy/skillspeed stuff, so upgrading the poetics shirt to i130 still makes it worse than the old i110 Auroral Tabard in terms of how hard you hit, and much worse than the WoD chest.
You can grab the demon boots for now, but I'd suggest investing poetics in the belt/gloves/choker/ring and using the weekly quest items or hunt items to upgrade.
You can probably also upgrade your weapon--I have no idea what you're using now, but Shiva drops an i110 bow that can be upgraded to i115. The secondaries are garbage (acc/skillspeed again some more), so at i110 Rosenbogen is still probably better, but the weapon damage increase after the i115 upgrade makes up for it.
Realistically though you're probably geared fine for anything you feel like doing up to final coil. If you can bump Crit/Det, go for it, but if not it's not the end of the world. It's worth noting that you can probably casually PF a group for T5 (or if you're on Ultros just ask GAF), and T6-7 can be DF'd easily, 8 can be DF'd with difficulty, 9 will be tougher, but you don't need a massive time investment or static for First and Second coil.
gabrielt16
Member
Thanks!!
Last time I played was during launch so when I got back I was a bit lost so I ended up buying all weather acc. and ironworks choker. I will go ahead an invest on the rings, gloves and belt. I currently have atma now but I'm 2 books away from next upgrade.
Last time I tried DF for turn 3 I was waiting over 45 mins ://
Anyway thanks again for the advice
Last time I played was during launch so when I got back I was a bit lost so I ended up buying all weather acc. and ironworks choker. I will go ahead an invest on the rings, gloves and belt. I currently have atma now but I'm 2 books away from next upgrade.
Last time I tried DF for turn 3 I was waiting over 45 mins ://
Anyway thanks again for the advice
No problem, and nobody DF's Turn 3 because it's kind of pointless. There's no boss, no loot, you just run and jump around for a while and try to skip all the trash. Usually you just skip it or PF a group to run you through it for the achievment, but you miss nothing by skipping it and proceeding to 4.
Hmm, I think I found it but I have 5 "FFXIV_CHARA_0X.dat" files and have only ever created 2 characters... I'm not sure which one to copy. I guess I'll back them all up and just start messing with it.
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