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Final Fantasy XIV |OT7| 1000 years DRAGONSONG War

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Killthee

helped a brotha out on multiple separate occasions!
Aren't GCs totally irrelevant though?
Heavensward is around the corner though. We might get new GC ranks, new lv 50+ GC gear to help with leveling, new crafting mats, new PvP gear, maybe some new PvP abilities, and new hunt glamour items. All of that is tied to your GC and switching it right now means you'll probably have to grind back your PvP rank and GC rank or miss out on the new items at Heavensward's launch.

The big one for me is the PvP rank, starting over from scratch when I'm already lv 40 just doesn't sound fun at all. If it was a universal rank that wasn't tied to your GC I would have switched ages ago to play with the other guys in the FC that PvP on mael & adder.
 
Something has to be done about players not knowing how to play their jobs and absolutely ruining it for people. I got stuck in a group for Ifrit HM where it was clear all 7 not only didn't know how to play their class, but I don't think understood some basic mechanics of XIV, especially hate/threat meters.

oBfBo35.jpg

This image is AFTER I waited until Ifrit HM was at 80% HP to do anything. And this was after our first wipe. I explained that on this coming pull, I could not DPS at all because I was ripping Ifrit off the tanks in the first attempt despite me trying to explain how they could easily hold hate if I gave them enough time to build a threat lead. I was popping quelling and even used a lazy rotation to try to make it easier.

I don't know what to say really, I don't want to make suggestions to dead content at this point because that's pointless, and I'm not even sure trying to "train/test" players before allowing them into post-50 content will do much of anything.

Basically, tl;dr: Encountered the worst group since I started playing this game and got to waste 30+ minutes of my life and so I'm annoyed and ranting like a rationale human being. First world problems.
 

Allard

Member
Wolven, here is the first of a three-page article interviewing Yoshida in France:

http://www.famitsu.com/news/201505/26079368.html

(Links to pages 2 and 3 are toward the bottom.)

And here is another good one about new classes from Dengeki Online:

http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/055/1055148/



It wouldn't make me so angry if you were playing pre-determined characters with their own names and backgrounds like in single-player RPGs. This game is meant to offer a huge amount of customization. Thousands of possible combinations of hair colors and skin tones, tattoo positions, nose shapes, and everything under the sun... but only one possible dominant hand.

I remember reading at one point that the producers required every adventurer to be a righty because the cut scenes were designed around the character's weapon being in a certain position, or something like that. Try to imagine, for a comparison, developers defending a requirement that all characters have light skin because non-Caucasian-like skin wouldn't contrast the right way with the backgrounds in the cut scenes. There would be an uproar.

And I love playing different races and different genders. I just don't want my protagonist to be yet another right-hander.

Given the history I have seen around this subject in both this game and others, it is way more involved then you might think to make someones dominant hand change, the biggest alteration coming from Legend of Zelda: TP. In order to 'accommodate' a right handed preference for motion controls they not only made Link Right handed but in order for that to work inside the game world they literally had to mirror all the game world geometry. Right became left so Link could open doors with the right hand instead of the left, Lake Hylia showed up in the east in the Wii version all because of the dominant hand switch. The issue isn't just the cut scenes its the underlying animation pipeline for everything in the game. If the game didnt have the option for multiple dominant hand from the start, it won't and probably' shouldn't get it in the future due to the resources needed to make the conversion consistent.
 

Grisby

Member
I've wasted a lot of time in WOD groups recently, so much so that I don't know if I'm going to go for my Demon Hat of Healing. Might just buy the Ironworks eye deal.

I'm not the the best around (nothing gonna keep me down) but I swear I've seen my share of people just standing around, or not even bothering to move from hit zones.
 

iammeiam

Member
Something has to be done about players not knowing how to play their jobs and absolutely ruining it for people. I got stuck in a group for Ifrit HM where it was clear all 7 not only didn't know how to play their class, but I don't think understood some basic mechanics of XIV, especially hate/threat meters.

How geared were they? HP values on the tanks don't look very high for 20% echo (ditto one of the WHM and a couple of the DPS.) not saying they were remotely good, but it's possible to float by on a level of "eh, close enough" up to when gear discrepancies become huge, and I've run in to a ton of i55 weapon tanks in the relic train primals. Level 50 content is a massive change overall; iLevel sync is frustrating but at least helps smooths things out.
 

Valor

Member
True, though in this case I was referring to the two major components of the DRG rotation being largely unchanged. Granted, unless durations are adjusted that'll force some adjustments here and there.
If by "Here and There" you really mean "The Cornerstone of How Dragoon Does DPS" then I fully agree with you.

BLM/BRD/SMN (I think ?)/DRG all basically had their existing rotations/priorities blown up. NIN gets changes due to Huton extension, I think? MNK seems to be the only one where all the old stuff still seems applicable, albeit it with more ways to deal with/capitalize on potential stack loss.

The first few weeks for the changed DPS jobs should be pretty interesting as people work out adjust buff timings/rotations in advance of Alexander.

and then SE will nerf everything and everyone will have to start over.
As an expert Ninja, apparently, re-upping Huton off of Gust Slash is even more annoying combo bullshit. You're looking at combo branches of:

Shadow Fang
Dancing Edge
Aeolian Edge
Huton-Extend

It's already hard enough to juggle AE/DE/SF without adding in a fourth option. Honestly I think they could fix it if they made DE either longer duration or they turned it into a two-step combo like SF.

Bard priority doesn't look like it's changing much. You still at the very least drop SS > DoTs > SS Proc baits with HS. I heard rumors about Bloodletter changing, but... I dunno yet. If anything, a simplified version of BRD rotation might make it more enjoyable to play in Minuet.

Would be.

If bard wasn't dead.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
How geared were they? HP values on the tanks don't look very high for 20% echo (ditto one of the WHM and a couple of the DPS.) not saying they were remotely good, but it's possible to float by on a level of "eh, close enough" up to when gear discrepancies become huge, and I've run in to a ton of i55 weapon tanks in the relic train primals. Level 50 content is a massive change overall; iLevel sync is frustrating but at least helps smooths things out.

Tanking against higher geared DPS especially when they're competent can be pretty scary. You 123 for days and then you realize with horror that you need to put Path up but the DPS in your party are at 90% threat anyway.
 

scy

Member
BLM/BRD/SMN (I think ?)/DRG all basically had their existing rotations/priorities blown up.

Yeah, SMN is a weird one? It seems like we get a new thing to do during the back 40 seconds of Aetherflow's cooldown but it's more a changing one button for another (Ruin -> Ruin 3) with an extra "Fester" to work with via Deathflare. I guess it really just all comes down to what Painflare and Ruin 3 are like. Also, curious on to how much DoT clipping I'll end up doing due to Bahamut Aether stacks and my Spell Speed on-pet-crit buff :(

plus I get to float now so that's good

If by "Here and There" you really mean "The Cornerstone of How Dragoon Does DPS" then I fully agree with you.

Hm ... depends on what you mean by "cornerstone" there? There's 7 GCDs available between HT applications and it's currently 2x rotations + Phleb taking those spots. If both CT and FT's 4th hits are worth using every rotation then things get awkward but there's room for Skill Speed, only one-of the Dragon moves to be useful, and then Geirskogul being a GCD itself (and how many times the duration needs to be extended per use) for things to either work out or end with HT being a one GCD early clip.

It is awkward, though, since DRG basically just got a bunch of GCD rotation stuff added.
 
How geared were they? HP values on the tanks don't look very high for 20% echo (ditto one of the WHM and a couple of the DPS.) not saying they were remotely good, but it's possible to float by on a level of "eh, close enough" up to when gear discrepancies become huge, and I've run in to a ton of i55 weapon tanks in the relic train primals. Level 50 content is a massive change overall; iLevel sync is frustrating but at least helps smooths things out.

They obviously weren't that geared, which I realized during the first pull when I was ripping hate so easily when I wasn't going that hard. So on the second pull, I waited (and told the MT I would) until Ifrit was at 80% HP. But yes, ivl sync for DF would have probably remedied this immediate issue I had.
 

iammeiam

Member
On the DRG thing: step 4 requiring the Blood buff up, depending on how possible it is to maintain it, means the macro rotation won't just change from what it is now but should also change within a fight itself depending on if the buff is up or not. The only constant is that there are chain skills, but when you use them and what you do between should be more fluid.


Bard priority doesn't look like it's changing much. You still at the very least drop SS > DoTs > SS Proc baits with HS. I heard rumors about Bloodletter changing, but... I dunno yet. If anything, a simplified version of BRD rotation might make it more enjoyable to play in Minuet.

Would be.

If bard wasn't dead.

Eh, conceptually it's the same but the actual way you bard? Way different. Bard Contagion and Bard Fester are now a thing provided you're in Minuet, double oGCDs in Minuet can't happen, Bloodletter spam is going to be pretty heavily altered (as casts will finish and if you don't immediately trigger an oGCD you're delaying your GCD, gg.) The entire opener has probably been shot to hell--sing for six seconds pre-pull then try to figure out how to stack all the buffs one per GCD? Minuet changes FFXIV Pro Button Mash Class #1 into something a lot slower, and the existence of whichever thing is Contagion is going to make refreshes less frequent (ideally to encourage stance dancing but lol cast times).
 

WolvenOne

Member
If by "Here and There" you really mean "The Cornerstone of How Dragoon Does DPS" then I fully agree with you.

As I said before, the two Dragonsblood abilities appear to be tacked onto the end of the Full-thrust and Chaos Thrust Combo's. So those combo's won't change much. The main change as far I understand it, is how often you'll have to reapply dots. That will certainly change large swaths of the rotation, but there should also be parts of the rotation that feel familiar to anyone whom has played the class.

I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable statement. Though I suspect we may simply have different definitions of, "Rotation getting blown up."
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
As I said before, the two Dragonsblood abilities appear to be tacked onto the end of the Full-thrust and Chaos Thrust Combo's. So those combo's won't change much. The main change as far I understand it, is how often you'll have to reapply dots. That will certainly change large swaths of the rotation, but there should also be parts of the rotation that feel familiar to anyone whom has played the class.

I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable statement. Though I suspect we may simply have different definitions of, "Rotation getting blown up."

Is this one of those WolvenOne puts his foot in his mouth days?
The way DRG rotation is engineered, you hit the same notes at the same time, every single time. There's no decision process involved such as "My DoTs are at 5s, I need to reapply them now". Everything clips exactly at the right time in the rotation. Putting any skill, anywhere, completely disrupts that, and you can't just frivolously apply Phleb, CT and Disembowel at any time you want because it's either a part of a combo or would interrupt one. Just outright by using a 4th skill in Chaos Thrust series you'll end up having to clip Heavy Thrust 2 GCDs early because you won't be able to complete Full Trust combo in time before HT falls off.

I guess it's time for Fracture to act as a filler. I guess HT, Fracure and Phleb will be fine, but then there'll be downtimes without Chaos and Disembowel and that's a no-no.
 

Jayhawk

Member
I guess it's time for Fracture to act as a filler.

Every other DRG GCD is filler, Fracture is the main source of DPS.

And enmity problems in Ifrit HM zzzzzzzzz... Just tank the damn thing since you're like 23056235 ilevels above everybody else.
 
I need to make money.

Is it too late to make any significant coin before the expansion?

I have a 50 LTW, 47 MIN and 38 BSM. I just spent 290k on mounts/minions (thanks, beast tribes!) and I'd like to make that back and then some before the expansion. I'm not giving up on a house yet!

Can anyone suggest some ways to earn some coin?
 

Dunan

Member
Given the history I have seen around this subject in both this game and others, it is way more involved then you might think to make someones dominant hand change, the biggest alteration coming from Legend of Zelda: TP. In order to 'accommodate' a right handed preference for motion controls they not only made Link Right handed but in order for that to work inside the game world they literally had to mirror all the game world geometry. Right became left so Link could open doors with the right hand instead of the left, Lake Hylia showed up in the east in the Wii version all because of the dominant hand switch. The issue isn't just the cut scenes its the underlying animation pipeline for everything in the game. If the game didnt have the option for multiple dominant hand from the start, it won't and probably' shouldn't get it in the future due to the resources needed to make the conversion consistent.

If they can't program a choosable hand, they can certainly compromise by having some of the classes always swing their weapons righty and others always lefty -- particularly new classes for which animations haven't yet been done, which is why I saw those screenshots I felt a sudden glimmer of optimism. If there is even one lefty class I will choose it and attempt to master it, and probably start playing Heavensward on Day One. Listening, Yoshi-P? ^_^
 

WolvenOne

Member
Is this one of those WolvenOne puts his foot in his mouth days?
The way DRG rotation is engineered, you hit the same notes at the same time, every single time. There's no decision process involved such as "My DoTs are at 5s, I need to reapply them now". Everything clips exactly at the right time in the rotation. Putting any skill, anywhere, completely disrupts that, and you can't just frivolously apply Phleb, CT and Disembowel at any time you want because it's either a part of a combo or would interrupt one. Just outright by using a 4th skill in Chaos Thrust series you'll end up having to clip Heavy Thrust 2 GCDs early because you won't be able to complete Full Trust combo in time before HT falls off.

I guess it's time for Fracture to act as a filler.

I realize all of that. All I'm saying is that parts of the rotation should feel familiar to users. I'd liken it to rotations at 30 or 40 vs 50. As you get more skills your rotation changes, but the new abilities build upon the old ones so in terms of muscle memory things feel, "somewhat familiar."
 

Valor

Member
Hm ... depends on what you mean by "cornerstone" there?
My definition is:

HT > Chaos Thrust > Full Thrust > HT > Full Thrust > Chaos Thrust etc. That's your basic rotation of GCDs. Basically you spelled out what I was hinting at. Adding in one GCD + Phleb up time + other GCD abilties and stuff makes Dragoon really a mess unless they switch up timers. Easiest way to do this is to add what... 3 seconds? onto HT. Easy. (probably)

Eh, conceptually it's the same but the actual way you bard? Way different. Bard Contagion and Bard Fester are now a thing provided you're in Minuet, double oGCDs in Minuet can't happen, Bloodletter spam is going to be pretty heavily altered (as casts will finish and if you don't immediately trigger an oGCD you're delaying your GCD, gg.) The entire opener has probably been shot to hell--sing for six seconds pre-pull then try to figure out how to stack all the buffs one per GCD? Minuet changes FFXIV Pro Button Mash Class #1 into something a lot slower, and the existence of whichever thing is Contagion is going to make refreshes less frequent (ideally to encourage stance dancing but lol cast times).
Because Minuet doesn't have a resource drain to it I don't see why it wouldn't work like Fists of Fire/Shield Oath/Defiance in that it just stays on until you cancel it.

Bloodletter, like I said, would need to be altered since it won't work well with Minuet. It's a scary time for Bard since a lot of what we know about the class is going to change. The thing is we don't know how much it'll change just yet. Maybe there's still room to be optimistic? I dunno.

It's gonna be a new opener, no doubt, and still, bard is dead. However, maybe it won't be as bad as it seems. Just kidding Bard is still dead.

As I said before, the two Dragonsblood abilities appear to be tacked onto the end of the Full-thrust and Chaos Thrust Combo's. So those combo's won't change much. The main change as far I understand it, is how often you'll have to reapply dots. That will certainly change large swaths of the rotation, but there should also be parts of the rotation that feel familiar to anyone whom has played the class.

I don't think that's an entirely unreasonable statement. Though I suspect we may simply have different definitions of, "Rotation getting blown up."
The combo itself doesn't change, no, but isn't that something of an obvious statement? The issue comes into the timing and the rotation, which I thought is what is happening. If you mean

Impulse > Disembowel > Chaos > Whatever-The-Fuck is going to stay intact then yes. Sure. Rotation isn't getting blown up. Ninja rotation isn't getting blown up either I guess since you still have the normal hits to get to AE/DE/SF. Except it is getting blown apart. The rotation you are using right now as Dragoon will not be the rotation you are using in Heavensward. It is getting blown up. Sure, parts of it will feel familiar, but that's because they're not leveling the class to the ground and reworking core skills.

I mean, you're right, sure, but I think it's a silly argument.
 

aceface

Member
I need to make money.

Is it too late to make any significant coin before the expansion?

I have a 50 LTW, 47 MIN and 38 BSM. I just spent 290k on mounts/minions (thanks, beast tribes!) and I'd like to make that back and then some before the expansion. I'm not giving up on a house yet!

Can anyone suggest some ways to earn some coin?

You can still pull down 80k/day on Ultros doing ixal dailies for sealants. Other than that, spiritbond?
 
My definition is:

HT > Chaos Thrust > Full Thrust > HT > Full Thrust > Chaos Thrust etc. That's your basic rotation of GCDs. Basically you spelled out what I was hinting at. Adding in one GCD + Phleb up time + other GCD abilties and stuff makes Dragoon really a mess unless they switch up timers. Easiest way to do this is to add what... 3 seconds? onto HT. Easy. (probably)
.

dont worry ill still be doing that top dps
 

aceface

Member
Oh wow.

That's a lot of money. I was just about to start doing Ixal dailies tonight as I just finished the other ones.

Thanks!

Well...it's gonna be halfway to expac before you're high enough reputation to get sealants :/
If nothing else, it's easy exp to level your crafters
 

iammeiam

Member
Because Minuet doesn't have a resource drain to it I don't see why it wouldn't work like Fists of Fire/Shield Oath/Defiance in that it just stays on until you cancel it.

I'm not really sure what this is in response to, since that is pretty much how it sounds like it works. Bards are getting another stance/song, and there's the expectation of disabling Minuet for motion, so it seems like you'd ideally want to have DoTs up, Bard Fester, Bard Contagion, then turn it off to move. Or to use mystery other song they're adding.

It's gonna be a new opener, no doubt, and still, bard is dead. However, maybe it won't be as bad as it seems. Just kidding Bard is still dead.

Just to be clear, I don't think 3.0 is terrible as a class conceptually. There seems to be enough there to make an okay class out of it, even if it is lifting heavily from other classes for the new stuff. But the basis of the design is the death of bard as we knew it. New Bard will apparently hit harder, but playing it optimally now is a whole different set of things from what it will be. Bard as it was is kind of dead; new version could be good but isn't super interesting. if I need to learn a new class might as well pick a shiny new one.
 
Well...it's gonna be halfway to expac before you're high enough reputation to get sealants :/
If nothing else, it's easy exp to level your crafters

Even still, it's something to look forward to.

And yeah, I've been wanting to level up Culinarian and finish Blacksmith, so it all works out.
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Tried T13 for a few times yesterday with various DF groups. Most were able to get to the last phase, but usually at least a few people were dead during the transition.

It doesn't look nowhere as bad as T9 and DF waiting times are ~5 minutes (instead of 30+ for T9 back in the day), so I think I can make it before the expansion pack hits.
 

Aizo

Banned
Is anyone playing the Japanese version familiar with using Webmoney?

My friend said to me "I don't really understand how it works though, I can buy WebMoney gift cards but I'm not sure if I need to use them to charge a WebMoney account or if I just use the gift card on the Square Enix Account."

Any ideas?
 

Hasemo

(;・∀・)ハッ?
Is anyone playing the Japanese version familiar with using Webmoney?

My friend said to me "I don't really understand how it works though, I can buy WebMoney gift cards but I'm not sure if I need to use them to charge a WebMoney account or if I just use the gift card on the Square Enix Account."

Any ideas?
According to the SE Crysta purchase page, webmoney can be used to buy crysta and therefore pay for your subscription.
http://www.jp.square-enix.com/account/crysta/charge.html
 
So it doesn't look like Warrior is getting any new combo actions, at least based off of that earlier list (two new abilities that require 5 stacks from the new stance).

That means they'll be neck and neck with Paladin in terms of number of combos/combo choice.

I wonder how the tank population will change based on this. Of course there's also Dark Knight to consider but I'd like to know if any Warriors will be going back to Paladin because of the new abilities.
 

Teknoman

Member
Something has to be done about players not knowing how to play their jobs and absolutely ruining it for people. I got stuck in a group for Ifrit HM where it was clear all 7 not only didn't know how to play their class, but I don't think understood some basic mechanics of XIV, especially hate/threat meters.



This image is AFTER I waited until Ifrit HM was at 80% HP to do anything. And this was after our first wipe. I explained that on this coming pull, I could not DPS at all because I was ripping Ifrit off the tanks in the first attempt despite me trying to explain how they could easily hold hate if I gave them enough time to build a threat lead. I was popping quelling and even used a lazy rotation to try to make it easier.

I don't know what to say really, I don't want to make suggestions to dead content at this point because that's pointless, and I'm not even sure trying to "train/test" players before allowing them into post-50 content will do much of anything.

Basically, tl;dr: Encountered the worst group since I started playing this game and got to waste 30+ minutes of my life and so I'm annoyed and ranting like a rationale human being. First world problems.


No one was new to the fight? Or did anyone (aside from you) try to speak up for advice? Also it probably wont exactly be dead content with the expect amount of new people coming with the expansion right?

Guessing on the expansion side since people new to the game will still have to run through the main story to access the majority of Heavensward I assume.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
You can still pull down 80k/day on Ultros doing ixal dailies for sealants. Other than that, spiritbond?
That stuff fluctuates in price a lot. Was selling for 80k last week. Think it was down to 50 something the other day.
 

Ichabod

Banned
Welp, went and ahead and pre-ordered. Heavensward hype was too much for me. A couple of questions: Any good resources for catching up before the expansion? I haven't played since they added Leviathan HM. And, is there any point in chasing allegan tomes since endgame gear usually gets trumped by quest gear with level cap increases in most mmo's? I was thinking my time would be better spent leveling up cross class skills in preparation for leveling machinist.
 

suzu

Member
You need to complete the entire 2.0 - 2.55 storyline before getting into Heavensward stuff. So you should work on those main scenario quests.
 

Demoskinos

Member
Something has to be done about players not knowing how to play their jobs and absolutely ruining it for people. I got stuck in a group for Ifrit HM where it was clear all 7 not only didn't know how to play their class, but I don't think understood some basic mechanics of XIV, especially hate/threat meters.



This image is AFTER I waited until Ifrit HM was at 80% HP to do anything. And this was after our first wipe. I explained that on this coming pull, I could not DPS at all because I was ripping Ifrit off the tanks in the first attempt despite me trying to explain how they could easily hold hate if I gave them enough time to build a threat lead. I was popping quelling and even used a lazy rotation to try to make it easier.

I don't know what to say really, I don't want to make suggestions to dead content at this point because that's pointless, and I'm not even sure trying to "train/test" players before allowing them into post-50 content will do much of anything.

Basically, tl;dr: Encountered the worst group since I started playing this game and got to waste 30+ minutes of my life and so I'm annoyed and ranting like a rationale human being. First world problems.

Its frustrating for sure. I don't like being one of those snooty players with their nose in the air but at the same time there are just players who no matter how calmly things are explained to them refuse to take any advice from people.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
18% on Savage Melusine.
The fight's bullshit let me tell you that. The bard has to be some kind of clairvoyant god.
It's just not fun.
 

Quote

Member
Is the FC on Ultros as active as it was around this time last year? I liked playing with GAF a lot and there were always people on party with.

I stopped playing right before an update that made a lot of people mad because it absorbed all their time. I think it was HNM hunts or something that gave sands? If that helps put a time on when I quit.

Can someone see if "Marzipan Cupcake" somehow escaped the purges over the year?
 

Kenai

Member
Is the FC on Ultros as active as it was around this time last year? I liked playing with GAF a lot and there were always people on party with.

I stopped playing right before an update that made a lot of people mad because it absorbed all their time. I think it was HNM hunts or something that gave sands? If that helps put a time on when I quit.

Can someone see if "Marzipan Cupcake" somehow escaped the purges over the year?

Chances are if you've been gone that long you've been purged.

It's a pretty simple process to be let in again once you log in, though. There's even an overflow FC in case of a lack of room (which might possibly be an issue during Heavensward launch, who knows).
 
Took on 13 a few more times, I got the handle on divebombs now, was moving a bit slow...plus using a VPN has helped. Well that's good to know, now I can just maximize my deeps on that fight.
 
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