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Final Fantasy XIV |OT7| 1000 years DRAGONSONG War

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iammeiam

Member
So there's a real chance that in 12-ish hours we'll finally get some real data on all the new skills?

It may actually finally be time to get hype/RSVP for Bard's funeral.
 

Valor

Member
So there's a real chance that in 12-ish hours we'll finally get some real data on all the new skills?

It may actually finally be time to get hype/RSVP for Bard's funeral.

I mean, if I may break character for a moment, Bard is gonna be borderline broken. Two new on GCD skills out of five, and two of the skills are songs. Empyrean Arrow looks like the new lone off GCD skill so that means Sidewinder/Iron Jaw are on GCD. I don't know how that's supposed to bring balance to the force. It'll be interesting to see.

In character again.

Time to glamour that dungeon set, because black will be in season come Friday. Retire the Amon hat now.
 

iammeiam

Member
I mean, if I may break character for a moment, Bard is gonna be borderline broken. Two new on GCD skills out of five, and two of the skills are songs. Empyrean Arrow looks like the new lone off GCD skill so that means Sidewinder/Iron Jaw are on GCD. I don't know how that's supposed to bring balance to the force. It'll be interesting to see.

Agree on broken, do not agree on your icon assessment. The two GCD skills have a TP cost, which usually (always?) means no cooldown beyond GCD. Sidewinder being Bard Fester, that's wayyyyyy too powerful to be able to spam on GCD (and renders Heavy Shot useless), so I'm guessing that's our new oGCD. One of the two new GCDs looks like a bear trap, so Iron Jaw, and the other looks like a bow so I'd guess Empyrean.

Bard contagion only costing 60 TP and having no extended cooldown is still dumb as hell, so I have to be missing something but I guess the usage hinges on having Minuet up, so kiss having Max DPS bards move EVER goodbye as Minuet uptime to keep extending opener dots will be priority one. Unless they drop the cast time from Minuet, and they really, really should (does anybody else have to stand still for three seconds just to stance dance?)

In the official translation thing of the last Live Letter, Yoshida refers to the "new concept of Bard", so it really is RIP Bard, welcome new thing named Bard.

Time to glamour that dungeon set, because black will be in season come Friday. Retire the Amon hat now.

Machinists can wear that hat too. Any port in a storm and all.
 
Unless they drop the cast time from Minuet, and they really, really should (does anybody else have to stand still for three seconds just to stance dance?)

Closest thing I can think of is switching oaths on PLD, which eats up a GCD and breaks your combo. It's the weirdest thing too - why does it even cost MP to turn an oath on? It's like they decided the way they would differentiate it from WAR's easy Defiance toggle was to give it every single penalty they could think of at the time.

...Until they starting thinking about changing Bard. :V
 

iammeiam

Member
Have you met Black Mage? We have to stand still for the whole fight.

That's not stance dancing, though, which is what I asked about, and is seperate from the overall BLM stance objection. I mean, imagine slapping a three second cast time on Cleric stance. People would freak. Minuet as explained is a three second stand-still do-nothing penalty before being able to actually start casting.

BLM also has a pretty hefty toolkit designed to make strategizing movement a thing. Bard is getting a BLM stance without a toolkit, and a three second stationary penalty for activation. Even Paladin oath swapping allows movement and weaving an oGCD; Minuet so far is from what I can tell unique in its dumbness.
 
Have you met Black Mage? We have to stand still for the whole fight.

Speaking of which, now that Ley Lines is a thing, I sure am glad that I won't have pesky bards running around in circles and forcing me to break the lines because they dropped a player-targeted AOE on where I was standing.

Thanks Yoshida. <3
 

scy

Member
Even BLMs "stance dance" of Fire->Ice / Ice->Fire is significantly faster than 3 seconds (and, well, "does something" with the cast time beyond activation).

Speaking of which, now that Ley Lines is a thing, I sure am glad that I won't have pesky bards running around in circles and forcing me to break the lines because they dropped a player-targeted AOE on where I was standing.

Thanks Yoshida. <3

now just blame the healers
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
I mean, imagine slapping a three second cast time on Cleric stance. People would freak.

Originally CS had no recast delay upon application.

Anyway the thing you all need to consider here is that you're thinking about raiding issues in terms of how battles are designed now in ARR whereas design of raid battles specifically could change dramatically.
 

Valor

Member
Agree on broken, do not agree on your icon assessment. The two GCD skills have a TP cost, which usually (always?) means no cooldown beyond GCD. Sidewinder being Bard Fester, that's wayyyyyy too powerful to be able to spam on GCD (and renders Heavy Shot useless), so I'm guessing that's our new oGCD. One of the two new GCDs looks like a bear trap, so Iron Jaw, and the other looks like a bow so I'd guess Empyrean.

Bard contagion only costing 60 TP and having no extended cooldown is still dumb as hell, so I have to be missing something but I guess the usage hinges on having Minuet up, so kiss having Max DPS bards move EVER goodbye as Minuet uptime to keep extending opener dots will be priority one. Unless they drop the cast time from Minuet, and they really, really should (does anybody else have to stand still for three seconds just to stance dance?)
I definitely can agree with what you said about possible icons and ogcd/ongcd stuff.

It makes sense for Fester to be useful for it to be off with a decent cooldown to it. Otherwise it's super busted. Iron Jaw can be on because you won't be spamming it. Who even knows what Empyrean does yet even, so maybe THAT replaces Heavy Shot while in Minuet.

Most other stances have a cooldown after you activate them, to my eternal disappointment in Defiance/Oats. Minuet having a cast time is shit as hell, but hopefully you only need to cast it ever so often. It will be extremely grating to cast it and then instantly have to drop it. Maybe the dps loss by moving with Minuet active will outweigh the time of casting it again? It's hard to tell right now. Maybe Empyrean can be cast while moving lol. I doubt it, but still.

I just wonder what reason there would be to not have Minuet up. I guess in a moving-heavy fight? Like you said, you can't switch in and out of it quickly whatsoever, so to me it sounds like something you need to plan to use for a strategic reason. That 3 second cast time is a killer and I get disappointed whenever I think about it.

I can't see them changing battles drastically because ARR revolved around movement. You're still going to see movement heavy fights in Heavensward.
 

Sorian

Banned
Originally CS had no recast delay upon application.

Anyway the thing you all need to consider here is that you're thinking about raiding issues in terms of how battles are designed now in ARR whereas design of raid battles specifically could change dramatically.

lol
 

scy

Member
It makes sense for Fester to be useful for it to be off with a decent cooldown to it. Otherwise it's super busted. Iron Jaw can be on because you won't be spamming it. Who even knows what Empyrean does yet even, so maybe THAT replaces Heavy Shot while in Minuet.

...

I can't see them changing battles drastically because ARR revolved around movement. You're still going to see movement heavy fights in Heavensward.

This is kind of the issue I have with trying to go "well, think of the fights!" as a blanket solution. Minuet being it's own rotation of stuff to do makes keybinds a really awkward thing if you actually are expected to utilize both sides pretty often due to encounter design. They'll matter but won't alone be enough. Meh. Will just sort of need to see actual real details.

On the subject of new stuff, you can replace Heavy Shot entirely, for instance, and just make it so that Minuet'd Barrage only works on Heavy Shot so it's still occasionally a button pushed. Makes that Straight Shot interaction pointless at 60 but eh! Gives some flexibility on having a new generic spammer while not flat out removing an old skill from ever being pushed. Guess we'll find out soon&#8482;?
 

iammeiam

Member
The worst part of a new filler move would be figuring out how to map it while keeping Heavy Shot comfortably accessible for level-synced stuff.

Oh man. That's the most exciting part of tonight--hopefully having enough detail to start figuring out how to remap everything.
 
The worst part of a new filler move would be figuring out how to map it while keeping Heavy Shot comfortably accessible for level-synced stuff.

Oh man. That's the most exciting part of tonight--hopefully having enough detail to start figuring out how to remap everything.

im already maxed out on button space as it is :(. I dont want to be using shifts and ctrls. That's dumb
 

iammeiam

Member
You all can keep your Shenmues and FFVIIrs, somehow there is another NieR I don't know how this is happening but it needs a tie-in event. Amazing music and catgirls/Catgirl 2.0s everywhere would probably kill for Kaine's outfit.
 

iammeiam

Member
Gimme that moon head

I am 100% in favor of Emil masks for everyone. I don't know that they'd do a crossover event but then I never expected them to fund Taro and Platinum working together to make a sequel so clearly something magical is happening and they totally should.
 

Valor

Member
You all can keep your Shenmues and FFVIIrs, somehow there is another NieR I don't know how this is happening but it needs a tie-in event. Amazing music and catgirls/Catgirl 2.0s everywhere would probably kill for Kaine's outfit.

I feel like I need to go out and play NieR now.
 
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