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Final Fantasy XIV |OT7| 1000 years DRAGONSONG War
- Thread starter suzu
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I have been pretty good at avoid playing with new players honestly. Via joining a different kind of FC, avoiding dungeons, using pre-mades. The issue is a lot of the content made by SE is created to encourage carrying players. The dungeon atma (Nexus>Zodiac stage) for example, I couldn't pre-made that except for a run or two, because each person has different drop rates. I would need to set up a pre-made every single dungeon run.
So is that on me who is doing everything to avoid playing with new players, or is that on SE for making content for more active players to carry their new players?
EDIT - I know now the key to avoiding the dungeon alma situation is to do that content right on patch week and just go crazy at it, before the bad players catch up, but it's annoying I have to do the Asami MMO style of content due to fear of bad players because SE makes content that encourages carrying them.
It's made that way so that people with less options depending on time/server/whatever aren't stuck on the content. It's why you often receive bonuses for queuing with random people or additional bonuses for totally new people. if you want to set up your own group, you can do anything in the game and probably do it far more efficently than any DF. If you want to take the easier road, sometimes it has bumps too, but at least you can drag said people through most of it.
if you want specific X and Y and Z(eta) and whatever to fit your personal preferences and playstyles at all times, all I can say is it's nice to want things.
i would actually like more in depth level 50 stuff to work with similar to WoW's Proving Grounds that has specific instances to complete based on Tank Healer or DPS, and made clearing Silver a requirement for DF. Dev team totally caved and made it so easy that off-role jobs can do the DPS one though, maybe S.E. would do slightly better or make it class specific? I remember some of the FF11 ones being fairly brutal (lolMaat), but I'd like them designed a bit better than that too.
You act like it needs to be a magic bullet for it to help. Not everyone would use it to improve but there are plenty that would, and even a small percentage having a chance at improving is better than nothing. And yeah, healing is harder. You're sweating bullets because it's a new experience that you got to relearn, but it's mostly muscle memory for dps at a certain point. Healer's job is way more important, and requires far more improvisation if something goes wrong. DPS, and tanks for that matter, can really only do so much for the group. Healers are the safety net and can easily carry an entire group through crazy tough situations. That kind of stress and importance is why people say it is harder.
And I don't get why we can't have it somewhere in between. Top dps - I don't even consider myself a top dps player - and just plain bad dps. That middle-ground where they aren't great but they aren't bad either.
This would be really cool, I've never heard of the Proving Grounds but looking it up it seems like a great idea. Some of the early class quests were actually like that, but they were far far too basic to be of real use once you reach endgame.
At this point I'm convinced it's not so much easy/hard as it is obvious/non-obvious failure states. While yes there's a measurable bar for success for a tank or healer that isn't as apparent for a DPS, that bar is pretty consistently set low outside of maybe Final Coil. I'm not a good healer, I almost never heal, and still made it through a few dungeon runs tonight with minimal issue because my bar for success was 'did everyone die' and it is considerably easier to keep everyone from dying in casual content (what was originally being discussed here--I don't really care if srs Coil groups want to tear each other apart over DPS crap because thats something I'd never go near) than it is to push max deeps in the same content. It didn't matter that I fucked up a million tiny things, or that I had to pop Benediction because I got distracted, or that I have no idea when to actually use Eye for an Eye, or that I should have been able to spend more time in cleric stance. We didn't wipe, I did gud.
Compare and contrast to DPS where everyone has their own bar for success--a specific set of numbers you're to meet to prove you're worthy, or using lock-on because apparently that's a super huge gigantic deal to some people (I'd be shocked if the average non-locked-on player doesn't have bigger issues that they could work to resolve first) or whatever. It's not the binary tanks and healers get--hold aggro, you're a successful tank in the eyes of the DPS even if the healer is working overtime to cover your shitty cool down rotations. Ward off death, you're a successful healer even if it's largely because the DPS took no damage and the tank mitigated and self-healed everything Kill everything and you're still shit if it took too long or the guy parsing you feels you should be doing better. Healing and tanking in the type of content being discussed here--casual pug stuff--has a much more obvious success/fail, but success in that same content doesn't mean you're not terrible.
Yeah, I think this is something that might be getting lost here: Nobody* is really caring about the "middle ground" area of DPS. The ones doing good enough for their gear, good enough for the content at hand, and so-on. It's really just about the ones that are low enough that you assume they're AFK. This isn't about "non-optimal rotations" but more "why is that Monk only hitting Dragon Kick?"
Honestly, it's not even actually about the actual numbers themselves here and more about "why do they get to slack off?"
*Well, the true blue elitists probably care I guess.
This is the original reason I even went out to find a parser. I was switching to DPS and didn't want to be absolutely terrible and there's no real metric for good or bad DPS without it. Coming from being a tank, it was pretty much "did boss murder our dudes?" that I had to check off; everything after that was "extra." For DPS it's less obvious.
Then I became awful but hey, that's another thing \o/
It never procs anyway.
The fact that you used cleric stance at all puts you above a lot of healers. I don't think it is particularly hard to spot bad healers/tanks even when you are still clearing content either. Furthermore, you can fuck up a million tiny things but still do decent dps too. I think that is an important point that is being overlooked, there is a massive difference between not pushing max dps and being extremely bad at your job. When I complain about dps I am talking about the DRG who never uses HT and just uses thrust combos, the BLM that thinks he is a frost mage, the MNK who never rotates to sides or the SMN who puts up dots once and then just ruin spams. If your max potential is 400 and you do 350, whatever, you are making some errors but you got the fundamentals of your class. If you can do 400 but you're pushing 200(or less!), you're doing something fundamentally wrong. If a tank is that bad then he will likely lose aggro or a healer will let people die, DPS should be held accountable on same reasoning.
As for the content being discussed, since he mentioned killing people with mechanics while stressing over dps, I assumed he was talking about healer/dps difficulty in raid content? If he meant pug stuff for that too then yeah I guess that's true, but when people say healing is harder they generally mean in tougher stuff.
Very much this. I went thru this entire game as a dragoon and over the course of the game I somehow got alright at it. I transitioned to tanking and for a long time I felt actually mentally deficient every time I tried it. Now I feel like I'm a pretty good at it. Since I got arcanist to 50 I've been trying my hand at both healing and magic/ranged DPS at level 50 and those jitters are back. It's all about confidence, memory and getting in that rhythm. Trying to remember where all my important buttons are on my hotbars, getting a feel for when you have time to DPS between heals based on how bad the tank is getting hit, etc. I love that playing this game in different roles has produced such different experiences. Makes it so much fun to experiment with all of the jobs.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
So after 2 months, I've finally got my ilvl around 120.
Is there any decent resource to find BiS stuff for WHM?
Anyways. Ran Shiva EX twice tonight. First run, I see a pony drop for the first time. I roll a 97 on it and get it. Next run, WHM staff drops and the other healer is a SCH so I get that too. Needed it since I was using a Yagrush.
Nice luck. Now to work on Trials of the Braves books tomorrow. They're sooooo goddamn grindy. Then hopefully a T9 clear after that.
Is there any decent resource to find BiS stuff for WHM?
Anyways. Ran Shiva EX twice tonight. First run, I see a pony drop for the first time. I roll a 97 on it and get it. Next run, WHM staff drops and the other healer is a SCH so I get that too. Needed it since I was using a Yagrush.
Nice luck. Now to work on Trials of the Braves books tomorrow. They're sooooo goddamn grindy. Then hopefully a T9 clear after that.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Is that supposed to be Nidohogg or whatever his name is?
I don't know if it's just camera trickery but that dragon looks way bigger than any other mob in the game. Are they actually fighting him or just the little dragons in front and bombarding him with the canons? (what's up with Ishgard fights and canons)
Looks like the dragon from the old 2.5 trailer, who was confirmed to not be Nidhogg in one of the interviews done right befor the patch iirc.
so's your face
Link to famitsu info on it
Says the dragon's name is Vishap, which is apparently a species of dragon from Armenian mythology according to the googles. Doesn't really say much other than he'll be an 8man fight.
edit - oh here's NA site
Says the dragon's name is Vishap, which is apparently a species of dragon from Armenian mythology according to the googles. Doesn't really say much other than he'll be an 8man fight.
edit - oh here's NA site
tiggerkiddo
Member
Oh yes, forgot about him from the trailer...looks like a melee friendly fight
When I'm running EX roulette and I'm tanking i always check the weapons. Most of the time i see people with Zeta's and I'm like yaay this will go reasonably fast.. And with the first pull i go.. Right who was i kidding hah this will take 45 mins.
I tend to be top dps with my WAR anyway but its really horrible that SE doesnt put out a parser and baby the casuals because they need their moneyZ.
WoW has parsers, goes fine there right?!
I tend to be top dps with my WAR anyway but its really horrible that SE doesnt put out a parser and baby the casuals because they need their moneyZ.
WoW has parsers, goes fine there right?!
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Newbie question here, if I have the PS4 Phase 2 client from ages ago, do I still need to upgrade the PS3 version to PS4 in order to play the game on PS4 now? I figure I should do that since it is ending soon, but I'm not sure if I actually need to.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Ehhhhh. My experience with Recount in WoW PUGs was someone would spam it when they were top DPS than run into the bad almost straight after. The tunnel vision is strong.
So the bonus item code may be what I can see in my square enix store account then.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Welp, unlocked Castrum Meridianum finally. I have a feeling it's going to be an interesting experience first time tanking this tonight.
irfaanator
Banned
the experience you're gonna get is you probably not being able to hold hate on the dps/other tank
cultureculture
Member
Just a warning: if you DF it, you'll most likely get a group of players geared to the teeth who expect to speedrun it in 5 minutes, skipping cutscenes as they go. If you would prefer to play it for the story and not get dragged through it by the ankles, I'd suggest making a PF group or asking your FC for a group.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
gaf fc is geared to the teeth and hardcore cutscene skippers too :3
I see Cuca Fera. I know what Haman will be working on after cannonless SVHM.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
I'll be up for a wait-for-cutscenes run.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Sounds like a better idea than hitting one of his nails until he dies
"OMG! You broke my nail!!"
*dies*
Rose of Eternity
Banned
I was just jesting. =)
No I will definitely ask gaf first whenever I run it, this is honestly the first piece of content I can actually do that with. Plus I've been seeing gaf helping people all week with dungeon runs, they're great. Pretty soon I'll be asking every day for help with some sort of primal fight or relic run. Assuming anyone is even left with Bloodborne/the wait for Heavensward.
What's the difference here? Console pleb here, but my brother is on PC and parses. Every parse I've seen has auto attacks being the absolute highest damage output that anyone does. Missing or delaying auto attacks is extremely counter productive.
Absolutely false. I've had several DF'd healers who only used Cleric Stance while spamming cure/physick until zero mp.
Cutscenes are for casuals. Go to youtube, scrub.
Oh man, you're still alive <3
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Haha, you bet. No, really, I actually don't care much for cutscenes and I know I can watch them again in the inn/on youtube/run the dungeon multiple times. I have no issue with that. I was more afraid of what was mentioned earlier, most people getting in not being new to the dungeon and just expecting quick runs.
I've already watched the video for the dungeon so I know the details, but the first time in there is going to be slow no matter what for me. Also I think the dps won't be giving me a few seconds - *cough*.
I don't lock on as Dragoon and my DPS is good. You can minimize the impact if you know it's an issue. I guess part of the problem is that I needed someone to point it out to me in the first place.
Honestly, I feel like there's not a really good solution to this for pad players. Left stick click is lock/unlock by default and it's easy to accidentally click when moving to deal with a mechanic. I might try to switch auto-run to L3 and lock-on to L1 when coil unlocks and practice up that way and see if it improves my numbers at all.
I don't think this is true.
It's okay, I was joking anyway. I was lucky enough to be able to watch the cutscnes when the gaf chumps dragged my corpse through that shit the first time. Maybe the climate has changed these days, but I've also been in DF groups for castrum/prae where we see the soldiery bonus and people chill and let the newbies watch the cutscenes before continuing. It's a bit more arduous in CM, sure, but it still happens. I'm always down to afk for a few minutes during a run to have someone else enjoy cutscenes.
Paladin parse, so this is kind of silly:
Auto Attack does crazy damage simply because of the sheer volume of them you can get. Again, missing auto attacks is counter productive.
Rose of Eternity
Banned
Good point, I'll use the soldiery bonus as a way to lure gaf fc.
I do this when healing CT/ST/WoD.Autoattack is absolutely the unsung hero of DPS.
Everyone should lock on whenever possible to ensure you're not missing a beat.
ALSO GIMME DAT BOOK DEEPS HEALERS, ARE YOU EVEN TRYING?
I mean like, when I'm with an alliance that actually deals with mechanics and I don't have to keep everyone alive.
honestly the big thing you're going to run into as a fresh 50 tank is that in a lot of content you're just going to be unneeded and sort of... Ignored. Castrum has some things to off tank, but that can be burned past and depending on your weapon iLevel there's a pretty good chance the DPS won't be able to let you try to hold hate on anything they're attacking. There's no point in a second tank in Prae or any of the HM primals (or realy the EX primals at this point.)
So the good news is most of it won't be slow. The bad news is you'll probably wind up feeling kind of superfluous.
I disabled lock-on after the third or fourth time my over enthusiastic dodge attempts in Titan EX got me accidentally locked on and dead Back In The Day. I left it disabled for a long-ass time, but kind of needed it because I tend to run into Barofield all the damned time (I still do if I try to dodge while placing Flaming Arrow because I forget it unlocks.) So I mapped it to R3, and I've found it works out pretty well. I still spend most of my time not locked on because back pedaling is crap, but I can turn it on when I know I need to move a specific way and can plan for it--so like I turn it on to spread for Megaflare, but then turn it off when Megaflare goes out so I can run around any of the ground AOEs to stack without having to compensate for being locked on. R3 is out-of-the-way enough I never accidentally activate it, and the only thing I really lose is easy access to first-person view.
And, I mean, 100% autoattack uptime is ideal buuut it's not everything. I'd guess most people hit most of their AA via the miracle of face target and only lose out when their AA would fire off while they're moving. Which isn't going to be every movement--parses showing autoattacks as a giant chunk of damage aren't really conclusive, we'd need to see the difference in autoattack DPS from the same person on the same fight locked on vs not to gauge real DPS loss.
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