GwyndolinCinder
Member
Was okay to let a
die in chapter 5? I read online all death before chapter 6 didnt matter, so i just let her die.
zura
-
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Fire Emblem Fates |OT| Nohr does what Hoshidon't
- Thread starter Shun
- Start date
th4tguy
Member
Played through conquest first. I just finished Birthright the other day. I wasn't really impressed with either's story. Gameplay is still great, but I feel too much was taken away from what the game could have been if it wasn't split in two.
Considering playing through the DLC (third branch) but not sure if it's worth it. Is the story really that much different? Any shocking revelations that makes playing through all three branches better?
Considering playing through the DLC (third branch) but not sure if it's worth it. Is the story really that much different? Any shocking revelations that makes playing through all three branches better?
DeployThatPizza
Member
Yes. You'll be able to recruit her.
NeonZ
Member
The story is very different from the other two paths, it doesn't follow the same structure of "random internal battles -> invasion of the other kingdom". Although you'll notice quite a bit of map reuse in the first half of the game. There's
Azura
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Awesome. My first castle invasion just popped up, any tips on when to start dealing with these? I'm playing hard conquest.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Don't feel like you need to beat them when they first appear; they will outpace your units and it won't be fun.
The first one might be fine though.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
So theres start time limit or rush mechanics? I want to see if i can use them to help mozu catch up abit more
Finale Fireworker
Member
I also feel this way, and this is why I think it is:
1. Awakening's story was really, really basic, but welcoming and easy to follow. I wouldn't say it was a good story, but it was an effective backdrop for what really made Awakening shine: it's strong characterizations. Every time a character joined, you were really interested to see who they were. LOTS of Awakening's units, both parents and children, have a strong fan following. They also had chemistry with one another that made their supports the most interesting part of the game. These supports gave more information and backgrounds on the characters, which people already loved, which motivated people to play. It helped that the game had social links and marriage, so pairing your beloved units with each other really sweetened the metagame for newer fans who probably had never played anything like that before.
Fates does not have great characters. Most of their supports are not interesting. Few have any chemistry with each other. The sheer number of characters means less time to get to know each one, and when you finish Birthright and start Conquest, you leave all those characters behind. You meet so many characters, and there are lots of maps where three characters join your army, and the opportunity to connect with them just isn't there.
2. The writing is... not as great. Units in Conquest are obsessed with smiling. Laslow and Soleil's entire characters are basically built around telling attractive women to smile. Xander tells Corrin to smile. I think even Azura tells Corrin to smile at one point. Elise and Camilla hate when people "make their sister sad" and people love to tell women how cute and adorable they are. This is a problem. How big of a problem it is from person to person is subjective, but it's a problem that wasn't there in Awakening.
Sophie and Caeldori's supports are based entirely on make up and haircare products. Selkie's supports with her mother are based around properly applying make up. While this game definitely portrays its women as equals on the battlefield, competent leaders, and strategists, many of them are obsessed with cuteness and beauty. This is... again, not great.
It makes you less interested in their supports, it makes you less interested in the stories, and it makes pairing units less interesting. Xander's optiminal pairing is Charlotte, and he spends C, B, and A supports telling her to stop trying to seduce men and that her behavior in inappropriate. He calls her out on her manufactured personality and questionable motivations. Then, in his S support, he professes his love for her and marries her.
I mean, come on. Really?
3. Three games is a problem because it splits the fanbase. You're asking fans to play three games of varying difficulties to have the privilege of meeting all the characters and being able to spend time with them. But they're not the strongest characters and three strategy games is a pretty big undertaking, especially for the more casual fans that Awakening brought on. As a result, I suspect attention spans couldn't be sustained. Maybe players only played one game, or player Birthright and found Conquest too hard. So now you have players who only played one game, didn't meet all the characters, and has no long term attachment to the experience.
That's just what I think, anyway.
Awakening characters are just as (if not more) thin as Fates characters. Both games have characters who are defined by a gimmick, but at least Fates characters hav better interpersonal relationships between characters or in some cases (like Oboro or Takumi) more than one gimmick.
SliceSabre
Banned
I think Awakening had more talking about it because first:
1. Waifus and Husbandos: First people doing nothing but talking about their favorites and such and the other side of it were the FE purist complaining about waifus and husbandos. There's less of this because there are even more characters thus lessening discussion about them along with people adjusting to them so they aren't as excitedly talking about them as much and the FE purists have given up bitching about them because it is clear they're here to stay.
2. Awakening was a revival game and had a lot of newcomers getting into the franchises and thusly more questions to be asked and answered.
Now that these games are here old hat, per say, I'm not surprised there's less discussion because there is less to be asked and more resources out there to refer to.
As for the characters, uhh Awakening's characters are no deeper than any of the Fates characters and they can all be summed up in the trope they represent. And the characters in Fates certainly do have followings and jokes around them just like Awakenings. i.e. Fuck Takumi
1. Waifus and Husbandos: First people doing nothing but talking about their favorites and such and the other side of it were the FE purist complaining about waifus and husbandos. There's less of this because there are even more characters thus lessening discussion about them along with people adjusting to them so they aren't as excitedly talking about them as much and the FE purists have given up bitching about them because it is clear they're here to stay.
2. Awakening was a revival game and had a lot of newcomers getting into the franchises and thusly more questions to be asked and answered.
Now that these games are here old hat, per say, I'm not surprised there's less discussion because there is less to be asked and more resources out there to refer to.
As for the characters, uhh Awakening's characters are no deeper than any of the Fates characters and they can all be summed up in the trope they represent. And the characters in Fates certainly do have followings and jokes around them just like Awakenings. i.e. Fuck Takumi
Are you sure you played the same game? The majority of Sophie's supports have to do with her trying to become good enough for Avel to respect her and listen to her. I haven't even seen any of that from Caeldori. The majority of her supports always show her having inferiority issues because Subaki is her father despite being one of the smartest and most dependable members of the army. I want to know where all those make up and girly supports you're reading are because I don't see them. One support doesn't invalidate the other 10 they have. Selkie is meant to be cute and innocent so using her to show how "bad" Fates supports are is disingenuous.
You also forgot to mention that Charlotte saves Xander from an attack after she finally listens to him and shows her true side to him. It's not like it came out of nowhere.
Like PK mentioned, the majority of Fates supports are better because characters actually have established relationships with each other before meeting them. There's the siblings and their retainers and pairs like Charlotte/Benny, Orochi/Kagero, and Kaze/Saizo. There's some bad ones out there but at least they're better than having someone like Gaius mentioning candy every 5 lines and Cordelia reminding us how much she loves Chrom even when it didn't make sense. Fates characters don't rely on their gimmicks as much. Just look at Laslow, Selena and Odin for the perfect example. Those three were greatly toned down from their Awakening days.
A lot of Fates supports are vapid trash as is Awakening. A lot of Awakening's characters had established relationships as well Lissa/Maribelle, Stahl/Sully/Frederick, Cordelia/Sumia, Lon'Qu/Basilio.
Fates is just as gimmicky, Odin is still super gimmicky as his daughter, Setsuna is the gimmickiest character in the series. I really can't differentiate between the two other than I really don't like how awful they made Corrin in revelations.
Fates is just as gimmicky, Odin is still super gimmicky as his daughter, Setsuna is the gimmickiest character in the series. I really can't differentiate between the two other than I really don't like how awful they made Corrin in revelations.
The majority of supports in both games are crap because not every character should interact with each other. I just think the best ones in Fates are way better than the best ones in Awakening. The difference is that Fates has a lot more personal supports which gives it the extra edge in my eyes. Stuff like Takumi/Oboro and Xander/Laslow are some of the best in both games.
Inb4 Wazzy wins a Gunblade at the Revalations lottery. I so predict it.
I really can't say which games have the better supports because, to be honest, while I enjoy reading them in the moment (with some exceptions), I honestly can't remember much about them afterwards. Like, I made Chrom and Sumia marry in my Awakening file. What did they talk about? What led to the proposal? How was the proposal itself and how did they behave? I can't remember a single thing, because while I may have enjoyed it back then, it didn't stick with me. There are very few supports who do when I stop to think about it. I currently remember more Fates supports than I do Awakening, but who knows if that'll still be the case a year from now. I do have to say Fates had more supports that made me legit chuckle, and I can't remember Awakening having something like Laslow and Peri's support, so I may give the slight edge to the newer games for now.
That said, the lack of Fates talk may also have something to do with the 3DS itself. Back then the 3DS was still relevant and Awakening was one of its first really big, quality "RPG" experiences, much better timing than being released in a portable system's twilight years as far as hype and word of mouth are concerned.
That said, the lack of Fates talk may also have something to do with the 3DS itself. Back then the 3DS was still relevant and Awakening was one of its first really big, quality "RPG" experiences, much better timing than being released in a portable system's twilight years as far as hype and word of mouth are concerned.
Revelations Corrin was by far and away the best iteration of Corrin
Like, they're actually decent in that
This.
Frankly, the last good Support conversations in a Fire Emblem were in Fire Emblem 7 (Blazing Sword): tons of foreshadowing for Sword of Seals (Blazing Sword being a prequel to that game), likable and interesting characters whose past reveal itself once you unlock the supports (such as Raven, who has a rather tragic past and a very sweet relationship with Julius; Harken, who is depressed and borderline suicidal; Canas, who is a dark mage and grants a lot of interesting insight into his discipline; Renault, who joins fashionably late, is, frankly, a bad unit, but whose past is in fact closely tied to the Big Bad, etc), character development with special duo endings, touching reunions (Rebecca and Dart), some lore, etc. It was impossible to unlock all supports in one playthrough, so it gave a bonus incentive to the player to replay the game and try new supports.
And then we have Awakening and Fates, full of shallow supports which add nothing to the characters and to the lore.
To say I am disappointed is a bit of an understatement. I guess I am biased when it comes to Fire Emblem 7, since it was my first Fire Emblem, but this game was so damn good despite lacking several gameplay mecanics present in preceeding and following titles... 3 different campaigns (though one was a very enjoyable tutorial, and the last one re-used 90% of the maps, though it had exclusive ones and different enemies compositions), a lot of hidden missions, mutually-exclusive chapters which were unlocked depending on hidden factors (such as your total Lords' levels), amazing critical hit animations (that sprite work was legit), very good music, etc.
And then we have Awakening and Fates, full of shallow supports which add nothing to the characters and to the lore.
To say I am disappointed is a bit of an understatement. I guess I am biased when it comes to Fire Emblem 7, since it was my first Fire Emblem, but this game was so damn good despite lacking several gameplay mecanics present in preceeding and following titles... 3 different campaigns (though one was a very enjoyable tutorial, and the last one re-used 90% of the maps, though it had exclusive ones and different enemies compositions), a lot of hidden missions, mutually-exclusive chapters which were unlocked depending on hidden factors (such as your total Lords' levels), amazing critical hit animations (that sprite work was legit), very good music, etc.
theprodigy
Member
Haha
Explain to me how this is remotely possible considering the joke that is Conquest!Corrin is a thing.
theprodigy
Member
I didn't say Conquest Corrin was better, I said Revelation Corrin isn't the best version.
There is another route.
not Smash Kappa
I wish
they should add gunblades just for me.I would say even Lon'Qu had a great support with Cherche due to their connection. I definitely was more attached to Awakening supports but I don't think fates characters are bad, just not as interesting.
Birthright!Corrin is not better. There's nothing about Birthright!Corrin that particularly makes them stand out as a character. They're not as mindbogglingly obnoxious as Conquest!Corrin, but they're still far too nice. Revelations!Corrin has the niceness aspect, but it's mixed in with the confidence and intensity Conquest!Corrin should have had.
They're significantly more well rounded and likeable as a result.
SliceSabre
Banned
Conquest!Corrin's plan is so mindnumbingly stupid that it retroactively made me view Birthright!Corrin in a more favorable light.
Jury is still out of Revelations.
Jury is still out of Revelations.
Xander: Corrin go back to your room and stay there until the war is over.
Conquest!Corrin: Yes big brother
Birthright boats the best Corrin due to their dialogue not being as repetitive
and often boring
which Revelation mutilates with a "psyche, turns out you're the king/queen of Valla and related to no one but Azura, don't you feel like a special snowflake? Have fun with the incest option!"
Birthright!Corrin has little autonomy and the least prominence out of all 3 games. The game tries to make Corrin out to be the "leader", but it's really Ryoma story, with Corrin basically tagging along for the ride (barring the skirmishes with their siblings of course). YMMV on this, but this is a problem since the game still heavily focuses on them, but their impact outside of beating shit out of people is minimal. This is something that Revelation gets right. It captures the feel of "the lone Lord gathering an army and blaze a path of glory" that the past games had. Everything that happens in that route is from their own choosing, and even if their dialogue is incredibly cliched, they actually feel like the leader. And they don't just outright acquiesce to literally anyone who looks at them funny either, which is extremely refreshing. Also
it's not like your stakes vanish when you find out that Corrin isn't related to either family. The connections they made with both sides are still there. And why are you drawing the line there? Corrin is already a special snowflake that can turn into a dragon, lead an army, bang their adoptive and "real" siblings, and make everyone like them, haha.
And Azura being related to Corrin is best thing since it craters that shitty pairing and makes the "I paired Corrin x Azura together since its the canon ship!" crowd suffer.
And Azura being related to Corrin is best thing since it craters that shitty pairing and makes the "I paired Corrin x Azura together since its the canon ship!" crowd suffer.
victreeb3l
Member
What are the best DLC packs available right now on NA? Something with decent writing / story?
Hidden Truths by far. The second map pack looks good too going by Japanese impressions but I'm waiting until they're all available here in NA before playing it.
The problem is that Revelation still has Corrin fulfilling a role they're not qualified to fill nor becomes believable in it, let alone that the lords in past games were never alone and rarely ever seeking out glory (the only exception I can think of is Ephraim): Every single one of them revolved around some sort of disruption to their and their friends everyday lives, usually an invasion or the threat of invasion by a foreign force, that they wish to restore alongside friends both old and new, including ones who are former enemies. That is literally the point of every Fire Emblem game ever: Friendship rules, evil dragons, dragon-like beings, evil cults, demons, gods and physical manifestations of order that made up one half of a god suck, and together we can accomplish anything.
For that matter, Corrin doesn't do much of the recruiting themselves nor do they do much of the gather themselves, not if we're talking about the "Talk" command: Outside of Revelation Chapter 14, I can't recall a single time Corrin actually recruited an enemy unit (since the other ones were...well...other units who posed no threat and often ran up to you/Azura so they could turn from green to blue so as to make things easy as Revelation so often does
like how all the conflict in the game is because of an evil dragon manipulating things behind the scenes for a while rather than the decades of conflict between these two kingdoms and their various beliefs or cultural differences
the death sentence of Nohr for failure causing Camilla to join your side
Izana is dying because Revelation has some sick fetish with having characters die meaninglessly
Hidden Truth 1 & 2. It's a little rushed, but it does a better job of giving the villain a motivation and tragic backstory than Revelation does along with explaining how the kids of Awakening can be in this game and the scenario is rather creative in terms of how the maps are structured.
What you're describing is literally Revelation's plot set up. You use the power of friendship to convince your friends and family to help you stop
an evil dragon god's invisible army from fucking up the world.
can't explicitly tell anyone about "the enemy" because of the information curse.
?????????
Yes they do? Chapter 8 literally has Corrin reaching out to Hoshido despite their status as a traitor. Chapter 10 again has Corrin trying to reach out to Leo, but he rebukes them, and the same thing happens again and again. Just because you can't literally "Talk" to an enemy on the field doesn't mean that Corrin isn't actively trying to recruit people. In fact, that's a point in Revelations favor, since opposing characters don't instantly bend over backwards to join Corrin from their word alone. It takes time for them to reflect on their words and work up the conviction to trust them.
I'm not sure why you're trying to take away from the legitimacy of Corrin convincing Camilla to join the group since the supposed death sentence is presumably present in Birthright as well, but you can't recruit her there. Elise being required to get bit characters to join your party isn't a legitimate point against Corrin's leadership either since they're not important. Corrin is the leader in Revelations because they had to conviction to say "no" to the conflict and are in the unique position of getting both sides to join them. Nobody else had the knowledge and drive to gather an army and fight the real threat. Several characters have one or the other, but Corrin was the only one who had both. This is why Revelations!Corrin > the others. Because Xander and Ryoma easily eclipse them as leaders on Birthright and Conquest respectively since they themselves could see things to the end, but they literally couldn't do the same in Revelations because they lack the knowledge to do so AND couldn't put aside their hatred towards one another.
Somewhere along the way your argument shifted from "Revelations!Corrin isn't the best" to "Revelations is the least in terms of intrigue/depth" and I emphatically disagree with you there. The
information curse alone puts Revelation over Conquest's narrative in and of itself, and the existence of an invisible army (while inherently silly) is novel.
Don't get me wrong, I still don't think Corrin or Revelations are particular great as far story/characters go, but they're by far and away the best out of the 3 games games.
victreeb3l
Member
Thanks guys! Downloading now. Got a few long flights coming up and thought it'd be the best time to get back into FE. Thinking about finishing up all my pairs and prologues too.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Just beat conquest chapter 10, thankgod i went through the trouble of levelling mozu
A+ would allow either to gain the opposites classes with a Friendship Seal. Not exactly worth it for Leo since Xander's classes are physically-inclined though it might be worth it for Xander should you be interested in Lifetaker as an ability.
In Conquest, Leo is cool and all, but Laslow is the better friend for Xander because it gives him access to Hero and Bow Knight which are better classes because it allows him to continue using Siegfred. He also gains access to Sol and Shurikenbreaker which are nice to have for tanking.
Corrin is a complete trainwreck in the later half of Rev.
DecoReturns
Member
You guys talking about Corrin's stupidity makes me want to play Birthright/Revelations.
I mean Conquest was bad, but what stupid things could he be doing in choosing the Light Path and Neutral path.
I mean Conquest was bad, but what stupid things could he be doing in choosing the Light Path and Neutral path.
Nothing is as stupid as
the crystal in Conquest and the decision made after in either of those games, but Corrin somehow not recognizing Gunter is the traitor in Revelation despite the former making the most obvious blunder in their dialogue is pretty dumb, as is the reason for said betrayal being Gunter's family being fridged by Evil Von Burn Everything Dorf.
theprodigy
Member
So many people using Mozu for Conquest chapter 10, you people need to experience Paladin Jakob.
(P.S. it's Revelation, no s at the end)
(P.S. it's Revelation, no s at the end)
Valkerionseven
Member
About ready to jump on one of these, is conquest really that much more difficult for more casual observer/players of FE? Just asking since I like the conquest character designs a lot more.
Hard mode kicked my ass more times than I could count and I'm a series veteran. So yes, Conquest is pretty damn hard. I didn't play normal but I'm just going to assume is equivalent to hard mode in some of the previous games. It's the best experience of the three exactly because of that.
Onimusha78
Member
This finally comes out in Europe tomorrow so I'll be picking up Birthrights. I wanted to ask though, what are the chances that I could play this one version and get as much out of it as I did Awakening?
I'm not planning to get the other versions until I've dealt with my backlog.
I'm not planning to get the other versions until I've dealt with my backlog.
HawthorneKitty
Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
Nah, just go with Fates; there's nothing to gain from Awakening unless you already loved the characters.
You will get as much as from Awakening, but I will bet that you will feel incomplete because you will see the units from the Conquest side and wish you could use them.
Onimusha78
Member
Okay thanks.
The Nohr designs don't really appeal to me tbh, aside from Benoit and Belka. But I guess it's possible that I'll like the others for their personalities lol
HeavyMetalLover91
Member
Just started up, which difficulty should I go for? Birthright is supposed to be easier so I'm inclined to go classic, but can I change difficulty back to Casual when I start Conquest (the harder game)?
Playing the limited edition where it's all on one card btw
Playing the limited edition where it's all on one card btw
You can lower the difficulty and change between casual/classic after starting the game, so I'd say start at Classic/Hard and lower to normal if you feel like things are getting too hard. I'd never go for casual, as it takes a lot of the tension and strategy thinking that I love FE for, but that's just me.
HeavyMetalLover91
Member
Ok, thanks! Didn't want to commit to a particular difficulty in case it was too much and unchangeable