So this is 10 days into my cut. I'm down about 7 pounds. I snapped this right when I woke up if you can't tell. haha!
Very nice (hot) body!
Nice pecs and abs. Like the chest hair stubble as well.
Good work, Cooter.
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Fitness |OT5| Intermittent Farting, Wrist Curls and Hammer Strength Machine Spotters
- Thread starter MjFrancis
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Very nice (hot) body!
Nice pecs and abs. Like the chest hair stubble as well.
Good work, Cooter.
lol he's not going to "lose" any muscle mass in 24 hours. he'll be hungry as fuck and probably weak for sure, though.
aware me on the basics of IF. from what I know, you only eat your calories in like a 3-4 hour timeframe right, while the rest of the time is only water?
There's different versions. As a diabetic I've never done it super strictly, I stick with only coffee till 12 or 2pm depending on my schedule, then try to stick to an 8 hour eating window. I don't follow it any longer, but a few months of it really reset my hunger processes, and now I no longer feel hungry when simply bored.
wait what? 8 hour eating window? isnt that what most people do anyway?
Err I eat the moment I wake up and the moment I go tosleep. That's 16 hours.
If he does it every 2-3 days he will start to lose mass.
You think fasting has a positive long term effect on your metabolic rate? Will fasting today for 24 hours mean that nine months from now my metabolism will be improved?
Getting told my words are BS from someone that has just bought his first tub of protein? Confused.
No hate bro but that's some broscience certified knowledge you've got there, debunked by countless scientific studies.
Feel free to hang around for the former though.
Broscience certified?
Whoa. Ok tell me where I'm wrong then. I'm not going to come in here like a dick and drop my life experience in the fitness/nutrition/supplement industry down on the table and argue. I will gladly bail outta the thread if my advice isn't wanted.
And better yet if what I was saying was incorrect I guess I have some reading to do.
Who eats in an 8 hour window typically? People have breakfast at 7 or 8am, then don't typically have dinner until almost 12 hours later. That's not even considering later snacking.
My eating window is 6 hours, 5pm to 11pm.
It's just too hard to cram all the food I need into a 4 hour window.
Different versions makes it great. I just found it was too difficult to keep my blood glucose regulated with a fasting window of more than 16 hours. Damn diabetes.
i would think the average person skips breakfast.
eating lunch around 12-1pm, and dinner before 8pm.
Well, the six meals a day thing hasn't been shown in any study to jack up your metabolism. Neither has intermittent fasting been shown to alter your metabolism (seems to be due to lower total calories with a reduced eating window, but there is some talk about insulin sensitivity). Some people like the hunger management of frequent eating, but it's not needed to gain muscle. If you eat a larger meal, it generally just gets digested anyway, within reason.
You sound like you are a knowledgeable guy with some real life experience, and it would be a shame if you bowed out of this thread. We're all here to learn from each other, right? You might like to check out the op of the thread, as it's a starting point for a lot of the members here and you might understand their perspective.
I think youre wrong about the average person. Breakfast might be a bagel or donut at the office, but the average person definitely eats before 9am.
Not to mention most people definitely snack after dinner.
I couldn't have said it better myself!
Eating smaller meals spread out throughout the day in comparison to just eating three bigger meals (with the exact same caloric daily intake) hasn't been shown to support an increase in metabolism?
For real?
I'm not trying to sound like a dick I'm honestly needing this info.
My entire life of teaching and training athletes would be garbage if true. Or at least I need to re-evaluate how I'm directing people.
I have read through the OP and it's excellent. Franics did a very good job of putting this altogether for the group here.
How I teach/train and advise my athletes pretty much mirrors what the OP says. I do more sport specific exercises for my competitive sport athletes so they are better prepared physically when in game. But the basic principles haven't changed much in 15 years.
Zoe
Member
That's me. Don't eat breakfast, don't snack.
I really think youre wrong about the average American, thats for sure. Lol
LOL, very true.
maybe you couldn't say it better, but you'd look a hell of a lot stronger and more badass saying it!
I can tell you in my experience it did a lot to improve my insulin resistance, as as someone who manually tracks his insulin and glucose levels, I have the data to back that up. 16 Hours a day fasted made me use about 1/3 less insulin for the same amount of carbs, a very tangible difference.
You're a strength and conditioning coach? Interesting. Do you specialize in a certain type of athlete?
Here is some research on meal frequency. No difference in protein oxidation or energy expenditure was observed. There is a lot more if you're interested.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/1905998/
That being said, some research has shown a lower resting level of LDL cholesterol and triglycerides under frequent snacking versus gorging. It can help with satiety as well. If you've found it to be effective for your athletes and you've had issues with adherence, maybe it works in practice better than it does on paper.
There was a game changer in nutrition a few years back. His name is Martin Berkhan. He didn't invent intermittent fasting, but he popularized a specific method (Leangains) and with research to back it up, debunked a lot of blanket statements and myths that weren't necessarily true.
As a primer I'd direct you to this article he wrote in 2010:
Top Ten Fasting (or Diet) Myths Debunked
Some of the ideas debunked are still deeply ingrained into the fitness and nutrition industry. Even though he didn't invent the idea of fasting to lose fat, his utilization of research to support his method really is nothing short of revolutionary. While fasting isn't necessary and is far short of the magic bullet some people propagate it as, the research behind it and his debunking widely-held beliefs on nutrition are sound. He was the kick in the pants the industry needed.
You're too kind. Thank you! Great points about IF however! My strength and cuts have went to a new level ever since I began fasting during the day.
What's your IF routine look like Cooter? How long is your eating window/When do you start eating usually?
For real. I'm on my phone at the moment so I can't post a source. But theirs no evidence to suggest that more meals is any better for your metabolism.
New gaf way of describing IF - this guy ate one meal a day and got stronger while doing so:
Cooter said:
I'm done lifting around 6 and that is when I have a shake with 50gs and a Red Bull. After that I don't eat until about 9:30-10 and I'll eat until about 11:30 and go to bed stuffed. I usually wake up full and not eating all day is really pretty easy. Repeat, repeat, repeat! That's about it.
There was a game changer in nutrition a few years back. His name is Martin Berkhan. He didn't invent intermittent fasting, but he popularized a specific method (Leangains) and with research to back it up, debunked a lot of blanket statements and myths that weren't necessarily true.
As a primer I'd direct you to this article he wrote in 2010:
Top Ten Fasting (or Diet) Myths Debunked
Some of the ideas debunked are still deeply ingrained into the fitness and nutrition industry. Even though he didn't invent the idea of fasting to lose fat, his utilization of research to support his method really is nothing short of revolutionary. While fasting isn't necessary and is far short of the magic bullet some people propagate it as, the research behind it and his debunking widely-held beliefs on nutrition are sound. He was the kick in the pants the industry needed.
Anyone else here do leangains? I'm actually quite tempted to try fasted training in the morning (as this is what my schedule allows), and then feed from 12-8.
Either that, or I'm going to see if my wife has a issue with me moving my workouts to AFTER work where I'd eat two pre-workout meals.
There was a game changer in nutrition a few years back. His name is Martin Berkhan. He didn't invent intermittent fasting, but he popularized a specific method (Leangains) and with research to back it up, debunked a lot of blanket statements and myths that weren't necessarily true.
As a primer I'd direct you to this article he wrote in 2010:
Top Ten Fasting (or Diet) Myths Debunked
Some of the ideas debunked are still deeply ingrained into the fitness and nutrition industry. Even though he didn't invent the idea of fasting to lose fat, his utilization of research to support his method really is nothing short of revolutionary. While fasting isn't necessary and is far short of the magic bullet some people propagate it as, the research behind it and his debunking widely-held beliefs on nutrition are sound. He was the kick in the pants the industry needed.
Thank you very much. I will read.
Before I get into I'm curious if this is just eating for losing fat or optimized nutrition for performance athletics.
And I wasn't saying and will never say that there is only one method to success. This industry is so heavily opinion based i think it's disastrous to stand on a pedestal and scream that only my way works.
I eat smaller meals throughout the day and it helps me deal with my hypoglycemic symptoms. And I have always advised clients to follow similar schedules.
Please note as well that my comments last night were as basic and blanket statement as I felt I could give. I'm not posting in here to boost my ego at all.
I have not been following nutritional science much over the last couple of years though, as I was focused on other things and wasn't involved in this industry for a pocket of time. And if I'm wrong I'm fine with being wrong. Just means I have more to read.
But I'm not the guy that is going to post a laughing gif or pics of people rolling their eyes.
Just because Berkhan wrote a book and shook things up doesn't mean that Berardi is all of a sudden wrong.
I wish I could go back to something similar, but my job is evenings, making it hard to fit a proper window in where I'm able to eat. These days I usually have a meal around 2, then eat after work at about 10pm. Can never guarantee that window though with varying hours, ut I'm still getting great results so whatever.
Chittagong
Gold Member
IF is the best eating model I have ever done. I do two days a week, Monday and Wednesday. Eat whatever you do by 8PM on Sunday, then nothing but water, coffee etc. until Monday 8PM. After 8PM I usually have a nice tomato soup, ciabatta, some berries or pineapple, nothing protein rich but damn everything tastes amazing.
Not as hard as it sounds, first few times your stomach will protest but ever after that it's ridiculously smooth sailing. It's incredibly effective. Does't eat muscle or put you into starvation either, you just carve a nice 4000kcal hole to your week, in addition to the other stroke, cancer, heart attack, aging etc. prevention health benefits.
Also it's mentally very good too, that cleansing ritual early in each week.
Since when is Five guys a cheat meal? I can fit that shit into my macros.
There's actually studies that contradict each other. The general direction everyone is going in is that the differences are so minute that they don't really make much difference and that meal timing and frequency are the least important thing to worry about.
After a year of decadence, lethargy, and alcoholism I've decided to get back into the game GAF.
I found a boutique gym that is entirely based on your own body (no machines, even the treadmill is a manual one).
My first day I injured my knee... but regardless of that I was wondering if anyone had any suggested "I want to push myself until I collapse" workouts to get back into the burn. I have a bad shoulder so I became pretty reliant on machines the last time around.
I found a boutique gym that is entirely based on your own body (no machines, even the treadmill is a manual one).
My first day I injured my knee... but regardless of that I was wondering if anyone had any suggested "I want to push myself until I collapse" workouts to get back into the burn. I have a bad shoulder so I became pretty reliant on machines the last time around.
Very important thing to bring up here - bodybuilding nutrition and performance nutrition needs may vary. Berkhan's approach is specifically geared towards bodybuilding and fat loss. And again, fasting isn't a magic bullet. It just manages to bring to question the validity of many previously held "truths" of nutrition.Truelize said:
It's funny you mention Berardi... he wrote an piece a couple years ago called Experiments About Intermittent Fasting. He tries Berkhan's Leangains method, Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat method, and tries to create some of his own (to little success). Admits intermittent fasting has a lot of good points without quite conceding that it represented a paradigm shift in the way he taught nutrition.Just because Berkhan wrote a book and shook things up doesn't mean that Berardi is all of a sudden wrong.
Note this article Berkhan posted on his site by Alan Aragon:
A critique of the ISSN Position Stand on Meal Frequency
It's not a coincidence that Berardi softened his stand on meal frequency and conceded benefits to intermittent fasting six months after he was put on the spotlight here.
I know it's all a lot to read, and I just gave you more shit to read, but it's important to take in just how much has changed just in the past five or six years in nutrition, let alone ten or twenty.
I'm weak and I get fries.
You fast for 24 hours and then you feed without having any protein?
That isn't what intermittent fasting means, to my knowledge. Having sufficient protein before and after a fast was important, as protein absorption is slow but not infinite and blood sugar is kept level increasingly by burning amino acids the day after you've eaten your last carb, and if you don't have those via diet, you're getting those from muscle.
I'm not an expert on this and feel free to correct me, but my understanding was that eating plenty of protein was important to the regime.
iAmMaximus
Member
Wait so you lift (quite heavy) after not eating for 19 hours? Major respect.
Yes sir! It seems to trip people out quite a bit and I'm pretty sure many don't even believe me.
That year over at Planet Fitness fucked up my grip when it comes to the barbell lifts. I keep pushing up from the bottom of my palm putting a fuckton of pressure on my wrists.
Before, I was doing DB presses, deadlifts and ignored OHP for the most part. Funny, at the new gym. no one uses the squat rack for squatting!
Before, I was doing DB presses, deadlifts and ignored OHP for the most part. Funny, at the new gym. no one uses the squat rack for squatting!
I believe you and I'm impressed as fuck.
I've been eating from 8-8 for the past...3 weeks or so now. I think it's time to move to 12-8. Not ready for a 19 hour fast but a 16 Is doable. Like Petrie said, definitely helps you distinguish from bored hungry. So much wasted night snacking.
Haha. Thanks Franics. I will read it at all.
And it hasn't been ten or twenty. I'm not THAT old.
I feel that Berardi was basically the evolution of what Bill Phillips and his crew started in the mid 90's. And the EAS crew were the first to shake the world from the grasp that Weider had on it.
T-Nation, Poliquin, Pavel "the evil Russian" and Berardi all embraced these simple nutrition rules of frequent feeding for reasons other than "broscience", and I don't think it's wise to discredit what they have done simply because another method of success has been found.
All I know is that I have worked with several athletes that have gone on to great success following the basic feeding schedule of at least 5-6 meals per day.
Success is not isolated to a single influencing factor of training and nutrition, but if one of those factors were completely broken I believe success wouldn't happened at all.
So 5-6 meals might not be gospel anymore but I don't think it hindered results. And results may vary.
Things can change and improve. And they should. But we didn't abandon what came before us, we tweaked it, improved upon it. Poliquin and Phillips didn't send Wieder a pic of someone laughing.
haha.Well of course my peeps in here believe me but to your average gym goer it is insane. I get people telling me how unhealthy it is and how I would have more productive workouts if I ate before. You know how it is. Usually they say, well, it might work for you but it would never work for my body. I have to eat during the day. I shake my head yes and try to change the subject. Meanwhile they go back to doing body weight pull ups not even able to get over their hairline and I go and do my 70lb weighted ones all the way to my clavicle!
FallingEdge
Member
TWO BURGERS!
FallingEdge
Member
Haha. Thanks Franics. I will read it at all.
And it hasn't been ten or twenty. I'm not THAT old.
I feel that Berardi was basically the evolution of what Bill Phillips and his crew started in the mid 90's. And the EAS crew were the first to shake the world from the grasp that Weider had on it.
T-Nation, Poliquin, Pavel "the evil Russian" and Berardi all embraced these simple nutrition rules of frequent feeding for reasons other than "broscience", and I don't think it's wise to discredit what they have done simply because another method of success has been found.
All I know is that I have worked with several athletes that have gone on to great success following the basic feeding schedule of at least 5-6 meals per day.
Success is not isolated to a single influencing factor of training and nutrition, but if one of those factors were completely broken I believe success wouldn't happened at all.
So 5-6 meals might not be gospel anymore but I don't think it hindered results. And results may vary.
Things can change and improve. And they should. But we didn't abandon what came before us, we tweaked it, improved upon it. Poliquin and Phillips didn't send Wieder a pic of someone laughing.
Oh don't get it wrong, it is perfectly fine if someone chooses to eat 6 meals a day. As you have stated, this is just one path down the road. There are many different ways to do things. If IF is more of what someone is comfortable with, then why not stick with that? They would rather eat 6 small meals? Then do it up.
There is no "right or wrong", just more of what works best for the individual
Chittagong
Gold Member
What I read is that on fast days you should avoid protein. Your metabolism should change from "grow" to "repair" on the fast day, and protein kicks it into "grow". The health benefits outside weight loss (eg. aging, cancer) relate to this repair mode. They reckon giving your body this repair window weekly is why fasting is so healthy. Google the BBC Horizon documentary about fasting and see what you think.
On non-fast days I try to get 150g protein minimum,
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