Yeah I get that too, if I sleep on it I'll wake up in the morning with a really dull ache. I'm trying to hold off on surgery as long as possible, my grandfather had shoulder surgery when he was younger and my friend just recently had his operated on, both said if they had to do it over again they'd opt not to.
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Fitness |OT5| Intermittent Farting, Wrist Curls and Hammer Strength Machine Spotters
- Thread starter MjFrancis
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Yeah I get that too, if I sleep on it I'll wake up in the morning with a really dull ache. I'm trying to hold off on surgery as long as possible, my grandfather had shoulder surgery when he was younger and my friend just recently had his operated on, both said if they had to do it over again they'd opt not to.
BoboBrazil
Member
ahh wish I would have known this before I bought the bars today!
I have... but I don't really see my question answered (it's possible I missed a link?)
or if you're just saying I should use the template linked at the beginning?
Age: 31
Height: 5'11" (180cm)
Weight: 185 (84kg)
Goal: Continue w/ strength+size increases
Current Training Schedule: M W F (want to change to Sun - Thur)
Current Training Equipment Available: Full gym
Comments: I guess what I'm curious about is whether something like:
Monday: Legs
Tuesday: Chest and Back
Wednesday: Cardio/core
Thursday: Shoulders
Friday: Biceps/Triceps
Makes sense in terms of groupings/rest. Like does it make more sense to program Chest/Triceps instead of Chest/Back and what people's preferences are for groupings etc.
I'm also curious what kind of volume you would do on a routine like this.
As an example, A guy I work with does this routine:
Sunday: Chest/Biceps
Monday: Back/Shoulders/Triceps
Tuesday: Legs/Core
Wednesday: Repeat Monday
Thursday: Repeat Tuesday
Friday: Repeat Wednesday
Saturday: Rest
And on each of those days he does a ton of work and I honestly don't understand how his body doesn't just break down.
Your question isn't answered in the OP because its not recommended to do a routine like that. You're better off doing a 3 day a week program with a focus on compound movements.
Then that's what I'll continue with. I guess the disconnect for me is that so many people I know roll with a 4-5 day a week routine that it just seemed like something people eventually rolled into. Thanks for the response.
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Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
How long have you been doing it? You definitely shouldn't isolate like this if you're <1 year for sure, maybe more. Simplify if you haven't been in the gym for years! Simplify!
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
What's the logic behind isolation exercises split up across the week? Is it merely to give more time for those individual parts to recover?
My case might be a bit different, because as I said up above my shoulder and labrum were well and truly fucked, but my surgery was definitely worth it. Sure my shoulders still hurt from time to time, and the weeks after and recovery process sucked, but it allowed me to play two more years of football with out any more dislocations and I'm able to do all the major lifts with out too much discomfort, which I'm not sure I would have been able to do with our surgery.
Just as a counter point in case you do end up getting the surgery, so you know not every one ends up regretting it!
A lot of people end up spinning their wheels this way. Glad to hear you're sticking with the basics. What are your compound numbers at right now (plus rep range) btw? Sorry I should have asked that first.
For a beginner its pointless. Once you get to the next level you're going to 1.) need the recovery and 2.) certain accessory exercises can help push you past plateaus.
So if you're pushing 315+ on squats and deads, it's gonna be really hard doing them in the same day a couple times a week, you know?
Still, that's not a guarantee for everyone. Some guys can keep the starting strength train rolling for a long time!
Chittagong
Gold Member
Grocery shopping time to fill my empty fridge! Any low carb ideas, GAF?
here's what I am getting so far
- chicken breast
- smoked salmon
- eggs
- mange tout and bok choi
- spinach
- carrots (for fibre, in moderation)
- babybel minis
- prosciutto
- Fage Total 0% Greek yogurt
would love some more (non-nut) snacks, and maybe even a dessert idea.
here's what I am getting so far
- chicken breast
- smoked salmon
- eggs
- mange tout and bok choi
- spinach
- carrots (for fibre, in moderation)
- babybel minis
- prosciutto
- Fage Total 0% Greek yogurt
would love some more (non-nut) snacks, and maybe even a dessert idea.
Preface:
By no means am I nearly as strong or as large as some of you but here goes...
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Don't be so dead set on programs like SS, people. It's a stretch to say that jumping into a 5 or 6 day routine is pointless. EVERYONE responds differently to different programs. Should people try beginner programs first? YES. Should they stick with it for great lengths of time if they do not see progress and/or is slow? Nope. Should they try other routines even as a beginner? Yep.
From my personal experience - I wasted a lot of time trying "beginner" plans. The minute I switched to my 6 day routine is when I started making gains. It's just how my body reacted. It's what works for me.
I can speculate that because of my constant martial arts training - my body needed a routine that was a bit more robust since it was already used to some form of stress via exercise. I work a 6-day, single body part routine.
Legs
Back
Chest
Biceps
Shoulders
Tricep
I start with the largest muscle group working down to the smallest (save for bis/shoulders, needed this separation from chest as-is). This allows me to push my hardest on all groups throughout the week as I burn energy as the week goes on. The smaller muscles like Triceps do not require nearly the amount of energy expenditure as legs do - so they get worked out at the end of the week (when I'm spent from a 60-hr workweek) with a 48hr rest of doing nothing to get my reserves back up for the start of the next week with legs.
Another thing to note is that I do not touch machines or cables of any kind save for leg curls (gotta throw in some isos every now and again). I strictly use free weights. I have a barbell, two dumbbells and a bench with a leg curl attachment. Nothing fancy because nothing fancy is needed to get great results.
While simple, lower frequency programs like SS are great for some - for others like myself - I would be sitting still wondering when my gains would set in.
Let's please stop making blanket statements. We should encourage people to keep an open mind and experiment with programs to see what works for them, not close them off in a single room where they might never get strong enough to break free.
NOW COME AT ME BROS!
By no means am I nearly as strong or as large as some of you but here goes...
--
Don't be so dead set on programs like SS, people. It's a stretch to say that jumping into a 5 or 6 day routine is pointless. EVERYONE responds differently to different programs. Should people try beginner programs first? YES. Should they stick with it for great lengths of time if they do not see progress and/or is slow? Nope. Should they try other routines even as a beginner? Yep.
From my personal experience - I wasted a lot of time trying "beginner" plans. The minute I switched to my 6 day routine is when I started making gains. It's just how my body reacted. It's what works for me.
I can speculate that because of my constant martial arts training - my body needed a routine that was a bit more robust since it was already used to some form of stress via exercise. I work a 6-day, single body part routine.
Legs
Back
Chest
Biceps
Shoulders
Tricep
I start with the largest muscle group working down to the smallest (save for bis/shoulders, needed this separation from chest as-is). This allows me to push my hardest on all groups throughout the week as I burn energy as the week goes on. The smaller muscles like Triceps do not require nearly the amount of energy expenditure as legs do - so they get worked out at the end of the week (when I'm spent from a 60-hr workweek) with a 48hr rest of doing nothing to get my reserves back up for the start of the next week with legs.
Another thing to note is that I do not touch machines or cables of any kind save for leg curls (gotta throw in some isos every now and again). I strictly use free weights. I have a barbell, two dumbbells and a bench with a leg curl attachment. Nothing fancy because nothing fancy is needed to get great results.
While simple, lower frequency programs like SS are great for some - for others like myself - I would be sitting still wondering when my gains would set in.
Let's please stop making blanket statements. We should encourage people to keep an open mind and experiment with programs to see what works for them, not close them off in a single room where they might never get strong enough to break free.
NOW COME AT ME BROS!
Your post is confusing. When did you plateu on SS?
For an absolute beginner, if they value time, yes doing something like SS or GSLP is better than a 5 day split.
I still only hit about 5-6 hours per week with my regimen. Time shouldn't be an issue. I work 60 on average, code at night, play games and I still can work in my lifting routine.
I so never really hit any walls with beginner programs. Progress, however, was moving at a snails pace. My body reacted better to focusing a single muscle group in a workout and making sure I used all available energy during that time to maximize stress to that grouping. A 48 hour rest before touching the next set of compound movements ensured the previous body part had enough time to heal before being indirectly activated (ex: chest/shoulders, back/bis).
My body was used to stress from martial arts, so it needed more of a focus on individual groupings per workout to grow and lots of it. This is just my personal experience and what works to induce growth for me which is why I believe it is a stretch to claim that it is pointless to try/experiment with routines as a beginner.
Everyone is different. Even if there is only a small percentage of people who need to adjust and jump to an intermediate routine early on - it should not be ignored.
The BEST workout plan is what works for YOU. Nobody can tell anyone else what is best - so I believe experimentation and listening to your body as a beginner should be encouraged, not scoffed at.
But that's not answering my questions. You're putting on weight each session with starting strength and it can add up fast. What numbers did you plateau at? If you say you plateud at a 265lb squat it's a little different than a 165lb squat. I'm just trying to get an idea of where you were at before you called it quits because you stopped seeing gains.
I don't have numbers from when I stopped beginner programs but I went from adding weight to my workouts roughly once per month to adding weight on 2-3 times per month. My "beginner" routine lasted 6 weeks, deload, moved to an intermediate routine. Gains increased in both skeletal tissue and on the racks with the same diet, just different training routine.
Again, I can only assume that while not using a weight-lifting program, my body was conditioned for high-stress due to years of consistent (and ongoing) martial arts training. I'm 35 and have been training since 11.
Sure my health took a turn for the worse with diabetes, hypothyroidism - but I adapted (and continue to do so) and pushed through.
Results will NOT be the same for everyone which is why I encourage experimentation and listening to your body.
What, if you can tell me, is wrong with listening to your body and paying close attention? If one program is better than another for someone - why not just go with what works best for that individual?
I'm not encouraging skipping beginning workout routines - I think that is where you misunderstand me - I'm saying that making blanket statements that one should ONLY use beginner routines when starting and that everything else is "pointless" is... well... pointless.
I'm not trying to be combative, so please don't take it the wrong way - but it is far better to learn early on in training that listening to your body and adapting to what works is the far superior option to throwing caution to the wind and sticking with a beginner program just for the sake of sticking with a beginner program.
Do they work? YEP. Are they optimal for eveyrone? NOPE.
Beginners should learn that listening to your body is important. It will let you know when to deload, take an off week, cchange routine, diet needed, etc.
The more a beginner learns early on to react based on their body's reaction - the better their habits will grow into a solid foundation moving forward.
SS can work and some can utilize it to great effect. Others, perhaps not. Again, just saying making a blanket statement that one should ignore more progressive programs instills in the beginner that they need to listen to someone else and not their own bodies. Only THEY can say what is best for them and experimentation is the best course of action to find out exactly what their body reacts best to.
I most certainly would be stuck somewhere in the 180s if I listened to everyone else and not my body early on.
Great workout today! My whole body feels "worked out" 
I did get an impingement in one of my shoulders doing ohp, though. Any good tips on how to loosen up or stretch the shoulders? There's pain down the left side of my neck/top of the shoulder when I look to the left. I usually do trigger point massaging with a rubber ball, but I feel that I need something more this time to "unlock" the area.
I did get an impingement in one of my shoulders doing ohp, though. Any good tips on how to loosen up or stretch the shoulders? There's pain down the left side of my neck/top of the shoulder when I look to the left. I usually do trigger point massaging with a rubber ball, but I feel that I need something more this time to "unlock" the area.3 months ago I moved and had to leave my home gym behind. Been so busy with work I haven't done much aside from casual push-ups, curls (shut up) and jogging. 2 weeks ago I got really sick so I basically just laid in bed. I'm feeling a bit better, but I now somehow feel skinnier and fatter at the same time, not to mention completely undisciplined. This was supposed to be the year I got in great shape (the first 3 months went well), so this is very disappointing, but it's time to get back on track.
Starting with my diet. Oatmeal for breakfast. Protein shake before and after workout, plus a banana. Tuna and spinach salad in the afternoon. Beef, chicken or fish for dinner. Veggies (carrots are my fav) if I need to snack at night (I used to have a juicer, maybe I'll get one again). Does that sound okay for general diet? I am also taking multivitamins, calcium and fish oil pills.
I realize it has to change depending on bulking/cutting, but I just want a couple months to recover my general fitness first.
Starting with my diet. Oatmeal for breakfast. Protein shake before and after workout, plus a banana. Tuna and spinach salad in the afternoon. Beef, chicken or fish for dinner. Veggies (carrots are my fav) if I need to snack at night (I used to have a juicer, maybe I'll get one again). Does that sound okay for general diet? I am also taking multivitamins, calcium and fish oil pills.
I realize it has to change depending on bulking/cutting, but I just want a couple months to recover my general fitness first.
It doesn't sound like you ever did a beginner routine. You add weight every session on SS and start low. Sounds like you went intermediate right from the start.
The program isn't just the lifts, its the design as well, and you didn't follow it if you were only adding weight that infrequently.
Fallen_Hero
Member
I agree. Once per month? Weights should be going up every workout on SS. You should reach a point where you cherish your off days because the weight is starting to become substantial.
Yep. It sounds like he went ahead and didn't do a beginner program, then complained about the results he got on a beginner program. A program isn't just the lifts themselves, it's the progression and such it's designed around, and he completely ignored that.
Jack, you never did a beginner program, so you can't speak to how well they work.
Exactly
Do any of you do HIIT sprints? I've been keeping it up for a few days straight, and go into my regular workout routine right after, but today I feel more tired than usual after doing the sprints. Should I be doing sprints before, after, or completely separate from my usual workout? I'm guessing the answer will be "it depends."
Do any of you do HIIT sprints? I've been keeping it up for a few days straight, and go into my regular workout routine right after, but today I feel more tired than usual after doing the sprints. Should I be doing sprints before, after, or completely separate from my usual workout? I'm guessing the answer will be "it depends."
After your workout is best, completely separate is fine though. If you do it right before it's going to deprive your workout of the full energy you need though.
You're right guys - "should" and "could" (in terms of adding weight EVERY workout) is EXACLTY the same.
No.
Should != Could
So because I couldn't add weight every lift means I didn't do a beginner routine. Because text dictates I SHOULD add weight, but couldn't, means I didn't do it.
Get off your high horses, people. Seriously. I don't think I could be any more clear with where I started. I TRIED the beginner routine and failed. I was treading water. It didn't work for me. What was I supposed to do? Continue treading water because some textbook says so? Dead serious. I wasn't progressing. I wasn't adding weight every workout because I couldn't.
I honestly would like to know what is so hard to grasp here? I failed at a beginner program of hitting the same muscles 3x per week and thus moved to hitting the muscle groups 1x per week and saw massive improvements in gains.
Answer this: Should I have continued treading water? If so, what are the benefits of little to no progression?
No.
Should != Could
So because I couldn't add weight every lift means I didn't do a beginner routine. Because text dictates I SHOULD add weight, but couldn't, means I didn't do it.
Get off your high horses, people. Seriously. I don't think I could be any more clear with where I started. I TRIED the beginner routine and failed. I was treading water. It didn't work for me. What was I supposed to do? Continue treading water because some textbook says so? Dead serious. I wasn't progressing. I wasn't adding weight every workout because I couldn't.
I honestly would like to know what is so hard to grasp here? I failed at a beginner program of hitting the same muscles 3x per week and thus moved to hitting the muscle groups 1x per week and saw massive improvements in gains.
Answer this: Should I have continued treading water? If so, what are the benefits of little to no progression?
Because it sounds like you didn't do it properly?
Maybe you started too high?
Maybe you had bad form?
There's a variety of reasons you could have messed up. If you started with just the bar I can guarantee you could have added weight for quite some time.
You're supposed to start at a weight that is low enough for you to easily add that weight in the beggining. If you couldn't do so, you started too high.
You saw an improvement because you never did a beginner routine to begin with. What's so hard to understand about that? What you described doing is not a begginer routine. Plain and simple.
Like Sean says above, you didn't approach the program as a beginner.
Fallen_Hero
Member
Well, to be fair, it would help if you could post some numbers out of curiosity. From these numbers, we could determine if you properly followed the program. For example, we do not know if you started too high and never progressed because of it. When I started SS, I began with the bar on everything so I could practice my form. I was also patient; I knew the gains would come. As of right now, you are just saying the program did not work for you without too much evidence of why.
^ Hive mind in here, lol.
In the end though, it is your body and your choice.
^ Hive mind in here, lol.
In the end though, it is your body and your choice.
chrisisawesome
Member
Feels good, been stuck at 175lbs on deadlifts and finally was able to up my weights. Hit 3 sets (5 reps, 3 reps, 2 reps) at 195lbs! My lower back is slowly getting better!
BronzeWolf
Banned
Ss is also very clear on when you stop begin a beginner. Fail 3 times in a row deload and fail another 3 times twice? Congrats you are not a beginner anymore.
Blaming a beginner program because of it's own limitations seems short sighted.
There are many paths you can take after that to keep the gravy train rolling, doing heavy squats M and F and light squats or front squats on W, doing deads only on W, adding some isos to target your shortfalls.
I have done SS multiple times, the first time I was a complete beginner and plateaued at 225#. Right now I am back at the gym I am up to 300# squat and 315# DL with the basic program, not a single failed set.
SS can be very discouraging when you keep failing, but it does work.
Blaming a beginner program because of it's own limitations seems short sighted.
There are many paths you can take after that to keep the gravy train rolling, doing heavy squats M and F and light squats or front squats on W, doing deads only on W, adding some isos to target your shortfalls.
I have done SS multiple times, the first time I was a complete beginner and plateaued at 225#. Right now I am back at the gym I am up to 300# squat and 315# DL with the basic program, not a single failed set.
SS can be very discouraging when you keep failing, but it does work.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
It's aight to have one cheat meal a week for fat loss, right?
cuz that Jason's Deli is callin for me right now
cuz that Jason's Deli is callin for me right now
i haven't been there but aren't they basically a nicer subway? seems like it'd be alright, not like you're eating mcdonalds
Nah, just don't go TOO crazy
Enjoy your sandwich.
Think of it the opposite way. If you ate like garbage all week and then ate one healthy meal, would you lose weight?
Carpet gives under your weight. When it comes to lifting heavy weights, you do not want a surface that gives under your feet. This can change your footing and interrupts your balance, which can easily lead to injury.
Having said that, I used to workout on carpet when I had a home setup. I find working out barefoot helps, and try to let your foot settle as much as possible before you begin lifting the weights.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Jack_AG it's not a high horse. When people ask what to do, like you said, everyone is different, but SS is really not a bad recommendation to MOST people. If they are different, they'll find out, but the only way to find out is to try.
It's not a high horse. I genuinely like to help people and I feel it's a great point for a lot of people to start with whether they're an actual beginner, or someone who tried other things without luck, or people who have lost their focus. Sorry if I sound like a dick.
It's not a high horse. I genuinely like to help people and I feel it's a great point for a lot of people to start with whether they're an actual beginner, or someone who tried other things without luck, or people who have lost their focus. Sorry if I sound like a dick.
Quote
Member
I'd like to start jogging. Right now I mostly ride single-track and road cycle on occasion. I currently have a Garmin Edge 510, but unlike my old forerunner that did both running and cycling, this only does cycling tracking.
Do you guys have any recommendations on GPS watches? I've been looking at the Garmin 210 and mostly prefer Garmin because I get a hefty discount through them. At first I plan to just run on a treadmill and occasionally a trail as I'm 250 and want to take it a bit easy till my weight is down. It also needs to support ANT+ for a heart rate sensor as I plan to run in a target heart rate zone.
Do you guys have any recommendations on GPS watches? I've been looking at the Garmin 210 and mostly prefer Garmin because I get a hefty discount through them. At first I plan to just run on a treadmill and occasionally a trail as I'm 250 and want to take it a bit easy till my weight is down. It also needs to support ANT+ for a heart rate sensor as I plan to run in a target heart rate zone.
I'm head over hells in love with the 'cottage cheese pbs'. It tastes amazing and the macros are awesome. It's also super easy to make.
Take 100g cottage cheese, one and a half scoops of chocolate whey, and one tablespoon of crunchy peanut butter.
Throw them all into a bowl and stir vigourously. Add sweetener to taste.
Throw the bowl in the freezer for 20-30 minutes.
Eat.
It tastes like chocolate ice cream mixed in with crunchy peanut bits. So good.
Macros are 322 calories, 10.5g fat, 7.9g carbs, 50.3g protein, or thereabouts. They'll be slightly different depending on the ingredients used.
Also, to the person who posted the Gordon Ramsay scrambled eggs video (I want to say FallingEdge but, unfortunately, I can't remember who posted it - apologies), you have my utmost thanks. I've eaten that stuff every day this week - it tastes so good. I've been using super low fat creme fraiche (only 15 calories per tablespoon) and it tastes delicious. Thanks, man!
Take 100g cottage cheese, one and a half scoops of chocolate whey, and one tablespoon of crunchy peanut butter.
Throw them all into a bowl and stir vigourously. Add sweetener to taste.
Throw the bowl in the freezer for 20-30 minutes.
Eat.
It tastes like chocolate ice cream mixed in with crunchy peanut bits. So good.
Macros are 322 calories, 10.5g fat, 7.9g carbs, 50.3g protein, or thereabouts. They'll be slightly different depending on the ingredients used.
Also, to the person who posted the Gordon Ramsay scrambled eggs video (I want to say FallingEdge but, unfortunately, I can't remember who posted it - apologies), you have my utmost thanks. I've eaten that stuff every day this week - it tastes so good. I've been using super low fat creme fraiche (only 15 calories per tablespoon) and it tastes delicious. Thanks, man!
If you couldn't, then you were doing it wrong. But you are right..you gotta do what you gotta do.
If you biked for that long, you definitely burned over 1000. That long on a casual walk would burn 500+
Have you heard of this routine: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155009423
It's pretty great, I started running it after Strong Lifts got too heavy for me. It incorporates all of the same lifts you've been doing but with a less punishing weight increase progression. I really like it, you get the strength gains plus the more mass building focus of higher rep ranges.
Yup I get the Kirkland ones from Costco. I usually eat 2. You can't beat 70g of protein at 400 calories and I find them really filling.
I have the exact same burgers from Costco as well =) The best!
Well looks like I have a new item to but next time I go to costco. Anything else you guys usually buy from Costco?.
A big ass bag of chicken breasts.
I usually get the huge bag of frozen broccoli, a rotisserie chicken, Tyson microwaveable chicken, the Kirkland frozen salmon, Kirkland frozen chicken tenders, the mixed nuts, chicken of the sea tuna, big bag of raw spinach, frozen raw and cooked shrimp, the kirkland bacon or bacon crumbles, 90 pack of eggs, big tub of cottage cheese and if I need it the Kirkland peanut butter or the microwaveable quino/rice mixture.
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