Support NeoGAF

[IceCold]

I think the issue here is that the wording IceCold used implies that anyone who says "do Starting Strength" is a "follower" of it. Rippetoe definitely has people who hang off his every word, it comes with the territory. There's nothing about the routine itself that says you can't add curls or whatever, just make sure they don't get in the way of the important lifts. Greyskull is fine as well, though I do feel it's a little better suited as a step between something like SS and 5/3/1, TM etc... For a rank beginner, squatting three times a week on a linear progression has a lot of benefits and the load shouldn't be too much to handle.

I guess I'm talking more about the people who are active in the community and on the forum. Or people on r/fit/ or whatever who reply Starting Strength to any fitness advice regardless of the goals stated by the OP.

In the end, this is the most important:

Thanks for sharing this.

Everybody, behave and stop bickering. This is about inspiring more people to get into fitness. I've never understood people who argue constantly about who is wrong and who is right in fitness, because the fact is, there are many "right" answers, especially for people just starting out.

Do you think Sergio Oliva and I did the same thing? No. In fact, you could walk into Gold's and watch the 5 best guys and see 5 completely different routines. And you know what? We didn't argue.

Do me a favor. Try to focus more on expanding the fitness community as a whole than protecting your little corner of it.

From the man himself.

 

[God Dayumm]

Er wait what exactly is this diet?

Well, it's the "ultimate diet"

Basically boils down to this:

Reduce carbs for 4 days and eat at low calories from fats and protein.
On the 5th day you carb load, little fat preferably
On the other two days you eat moderate carbs

But that 5th day is difficult because starchy foods are not very calorie dense and I would have to eat a lot.

 

[BlueScrote]

I thought bench today was gonna be garbage since I injured my lower back on Sunday. Instead it let me focus on keeping tight throughout the entire set and felt really good.

 

[Dice//]

My Exercise/Diet Plan:

Eat less, exercise more.

But then McDonalds' preservatives remind me that I only have to eat once that day so I can easily study the rest of it.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

I guess I'm talking more about the people who are active in the community and on the forum. Or people on r/fit/ or whatever who reply Starting Strength to any fitness advice regardless of the goals stated by the OP.

In the end, this is the most important:

From the man himself.

Well, I agree with your points about people who are overly zealous about SS/Rip, but I don't see the problem with it being a universal recommendation for someone is interested in resistance training (refer to my previous post for why I think it's a little better than Greyskull for complete beginners). As I said above, not everyone who says "do Starting Strength" is a slavish worshipper of Rippetoe incapable of independent thought and even if they were, that wouldn't have any bearing on the routine itself. I think you might be dragging a bit of a straw-man from other communities into the thread here.

Arnold's quote is nice and all but you don't really see people in this thread getting into dogfights about 5/3/1 vs TM or 5x5 vs SS. For a beginner there are many "right" answers, but that's only because the less trained a person is the less complexity is required to drive adaptation. You and I (and likely 99+% of this thread) agree that a basic linear progression is in fact the best option for someone in that position.

 

[rage1973]

Yo, guys

I started my new diet/routine and I will have to eat at least 4000 calories of carbs at the end of the week. It has to be a combination of sugars and complex carbs with little to no fat. The sugars are easy as I can shove fruit loops and other junk all day, but what about the other kinds of carbs? I was thinking a combination of potatoes, pasta and rice. Maybe beans, maybe. Unfortunately these are not as calorie dense as I would like, so I will have to eat a lot! What other food high in starches or fiber do you recommend? whole breads? bagels?

Don't be offended but that diet sounds like garbage.
Is there any science behind this diet other than anecdotes?
Many people on here follow carb loading on training days but that method has been proven through actual research. Eating 4000 calories of carbs in a day doesn't seem like it would beneficial in any way.

 

[zychi]

any of you guys ever try or do yoga? i know this is a big lifting thread, and i already lift. friend lent me ddp yoga and im gonna try it later tonight. trying to get my flexibility better. i'm mainly doing it as something else to do in the winter besides sit on my ass

 

[Zoe]

any of you guys ever try or do yoga? i know this is a big lifting thread, and i already lift. friend lent me ddp yoga and im gonna try it later tonight. trying to get my flexibility better. i'm mainly doing it as something else to do in the winter besides sit on my ass

I don't know if anyone ever listens to me on this, but I highly recommend doing a class with an instructor. You never realize how incorrect your pose is until there's someone to push you into place.

 

[God Dayumm]

Don't be offended but that diet sounds like garbage.
Is there any science behind this diet other than anecdotes?
Many people on here follow carb loading on training days but that method has been proven through actual research. Eating 4000 calories of carbs in a day doesn't seem like it would beneficial in any way.

So you think the problem is the carb load? And what do people who carb load on training days do on non-training days?

 

[fredrancour]

any of you guys ever try or do yoga? i know this is a big lifting thread, and i already lift. friend lent me ddp yoga and im gonna try it later tonight. trying to get my flexibility better. i'm mainly doing it as something else to do in the winter besides sit on my ass

My girlfriend taught me pigeon pose because it pretty much perfectly targets all my stiffest muscles. It's a pretty convenient stretch but I don't currently plan to follow a yoga routine as a whole.

She has said the same thing that other poster did about actually having an instructor, though- that your proprioception is not going to initially be as good as you think and being pushed into place by a knowledgeable instructor is invaluable.

 

[Husker86]

One of those little hand-held things that you put your height/weight/build/age/sex into and then it zaps you and determines your bodyfat. Dunno what it's called.

Just so you know, my scale that has BF% calculator tells me I'm 7.75% (lol). I used a 4 point calculator with calipers and calculated 18%. Those things don't work at all, not even for a reference. Hell, depending on if you just drank liquids or if your palms/feet are a different moisture will give different results.

I use this website for caliper calculations: http://www.linear-software.com/online.html

Not sure how accurate it is, but it's better than the electronic ways. Calipers are super cheap too.

For reference, here's me last month: 192 pounds, 6'1" and 18% BF according to that website above

 

[RoeBear]

last month: 192 pounds, 6'1" and 18% BF according to that website above

You look about 11-13% not anywhere close to 18%.

It's awesome going to the gym and seeing Ronnie Coleman. Then realizing your waist is as big as one of his legs...

 

[rage1973]

So you think the problem is the carb load? And what do people who carb load on training days do on non-training days?

It depends on the program but Intermittent Fasting calls for lower calories, low carbs, and higher fat on non training days. And on training days to have higher calories, higher carbs especially on the meal after working out and lower fat.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yo, guys

I started my new diet/routine and I will have to eat at least 4000 calories of carbs at the end of the week. It has to be a combination of sugars and complex carbs with little to no fat. The sugars are easy as I can shove fruit loops and other junk all day, but what about the other kinds of carbs? I was thinking a combination of potatoes, pasta and rice. Maybe beans, maybe. Unfortunately these are not as calorie dense as I would like, so I will have to eat a lot! What other food high in starches or fiber do you recommend? whole breads? bagels?

Tons of ripe bananas, maybe?

 

[God Dayumm]

It depends on the program but Intermittent Fasting calls for lower calories, low carbs, and higher fat on non training days. And on training days to have higher calories, higher carbs especially on the meal after working out and lower fat.

Well, that looks similar but more demanding.

Tons of ripe bananas, maybe?

But bananas are fructose. I'm already considering those for my sugar intake, even though I think I am allergic, I'll find out this weekend lol. I think I will add whole breads and make potato sandwiches that day.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So you think the problem is the carb load? And what do people who carb load on training days do on non-training days?

Seems wisest to carb up after training and later in the day. Stimulated by weight training, glucose transporter type 4 will allow for muscle tissue to readily take in the glucose without relying on insulin. Since you're less sensitive to insulin in the evening, this will allow you to better partition carbs into your skeletal muscle tissue while minimizing how much is stored in fat tissue.

But bananas are fructose. I'm already considering those for my sugar intake, even though I think I am allergic, I'll find out this weekend lol. I think I will add whole breads and make potato sandwiches that day.

Yeah, potatoes are probably the best way to go if you want to avoid fructose.

 

[Husker86]

You look about 11-13% not anywhere close to 18%.

It's awesome going to the gym and seeing Ronnie Coleman. Then realizing your waist is as big as one of his legs...

Probably lower than 18, but I have some lovehandles when looked at from the side.

My legs are also a bit lacking since I broke my ankle/back in June. I bench more than I squat/deadlift right now, but it's shooting back up fast.

Where does one go to get a very accurate BF measurement? Do I have to go to a trainer at a gym or something? Since I have a home gym I'm not a member anywhere.

 

[blackflag]

You look about 11-13% not anywhere close to 18%.

It's awesome going to the gym and seeing Ronnie Coleman. Then realizing your waist is as big as one of his legs...

Looks more like 15% to me and yeah those scale things don't work. Mine said I was at 37% bf when I was this. Hand held one said I was at 21 which was still way off.

 

[blackflag]

8 eggs in the morning, 4 eggs for each snack = 1152
2 chicken breasts for lunch, 2 in the stir-fry = 1128
3 cups of spinach per meal = 105 (lol)
Miscellaneous ingredients and oil for stir-fry = ~800
1oz of almonds per meal = 815
1/2oz raisins per meal = 210
2 cups of wild rice under the stir-fry = 332
Protein shake (three servings) = 600

Total = 5142

(Hmm... I guess that means I drink 858 calories worth of water every day. Not bad.)

Dunno where you got the calories for that stuff but it's all wrong. 3 cups of spinach is not 105 cals. Eggs are 70 cals each around depending on size. Lol 1oz almonds is less than 200 cals not 800......

 

[Zoe]

Dunno where you got the calories for that stuff but it's all wrong. 3 cups of spinach is not 105 cals. Eggs are 70 cals each around depending on size. Lol 1oz almonds is less than 200 cals not 800......

Those are totals for the entire day... 3 cups of spinach * # meals, 16 eggs, 1oz almonds * # meals

 

[blackflag]

Those are totals for the entire day... 3 cups of spinach * # meals, 16 eggs, 1oz almonds * # meals

Nevermind me, I can't read good

 

[blackflag]

Cookies and cream quest bar is the new king....holy shit

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Cookies and cream quest bar is the new king....holy shit

They did what now... oh dear.

 

[ibitegirls]

any of you guys ever try or do yoga? i know this is a big lifting thread, and i already lift. friend lent me ddp yoga and im gonna try it later tonight. trying to get my flexibility better. i'm mainly doing it as something else to do in the winter besides sit on my ass

Well, the GYM next to my house went bankrupt (no warning) and has been closed since 12/4/13.

Since then I've started doing Power Yoga at home. You can find Brian Kest Power Yoga on YouTube if you are interested, and this is also good way to see how others perform various postures. Personally its helped me tremendously, and I feel fantastic afterwards. Its very challenging, but totally worth it in my opinion. I used to get cramps along my shoulder and neck muscles due to work, and I do not get them at all now.

Hopefully I will be able to find another GYM soon, so I can get back to lifting weights, but I will continue to incorporate yoga into my workouts going forward. I feel like its helped change my life.

 

[SeanR1221]

Cookies and cream quest bar is the new king....holy shit

So that's the new flavor they're announcing? Did you just spill the beans

Btw lookin super swole above.

 

[HisshouBuraiKen]

Well, it's the "ultimate diet"

Basically boils down to this:

Reduce carbs for 4 days and eat at low calories from fats and protein.
On the 5th day you carb load, little fat preferably
On the other two days you eat moderate carbs

But that 5th day is difficult because starchy foods are not very calorie dense and I would have to eat a lot.

I don't know what the hell you're eating but I'm like 155 at this point and the carb load still leaves me craving more, and I've been packing away corn, bagels, half boxes of cereal and pasta, popcorn, sweet potatoes, you name it.

Also you're supposed to start your carb load on the evening of the 4th day after the tension workout. Reread the book and take away the quotes, you either do UD2.0 or you don't

 

[blackflag]

So that's the new flavor they're announcing? Did you just spill the beans

Btw lookin super swole above.

They were in GNC today. I used to get them prerelease to test when Quest was much smaller but not since they blew up.

Thanks Sean, that's before my bulk. I need to lose 10-15 lbs or so to get back to that bf. A few weeks hopefully and we'll see if there's an improvement.

 

[ohhthegore]

Cookies and cream quest bar is the new king....holy shit

 

[a secret-boss]

Damn new flavor again

 

[TheOctodad]

$250 for a C2 Model D ? fuuuuuuuu ... I could only find used Model C's for €500ish so I bought a new one for €1000+

still best money I ever spent

what are your best times? I'm stuck at 7:20 @ 2K , 19:25 @ 5K & 40:05 @ 10K. Usually I end up dry heaving when trying to go faster been rowing (for weightloss) since July, around 2.5~3 hours / week

I normally do shorter burst (500/1000m sprints). It's not my main focus, so it could be better. I can hit around a 3 minute 1k pretty frequently though.

 

[rage1973]

Today was my workout day and I finished my meal at Krispy Kreme for some carb overloading. Those fresh glazed doughnuts straight out the fryer is like eating crack.

 

[TheOctodad]

I've made it a resolution to show progress pics only if I have a very visible 4 or 6 Pack just standing, no good angles, light, or bullshit, so maybe in 3 or 4 months.

More than the sixpack, I want to see if I can keep my eating beahviour under control, that's what interests me the most at this point, whether I have the character to pull it of or not.

Same boat man. I've never been healthy in my life until a few years ago. I have visible abs even with the body fat I have right now, I'm so excited to cut down.

Though I'll be honest, I'm more excited about my back than my abs. Olympic lifting has done some wonders for my back.

any of you guys ever try or do yoga? i know this is a big lifting thread, and i already lift. friend lent me ddp yoga and im gonna try it later tonight. trying to get my flexibility better. i'm mainly doing it as something else to do in the winter besides sit on my ass

Yup. I do my olympic lifting 5x a week and yoga on my Sunday rest day. It's awesome. Flexibility is super important to me so I find it really helpful.

 

[Cudder]

Today was my workout day and I finished my meal at Krispy Kreme for some carb overloading. Those fresh glazed doughnuts straight out the fryer is like eating crack.

What the fuck, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to overload on complex carbs, not have 95% of the carbs be pure sugar. Some of you are taking this overloading/bulking thing way too far, thinking you can eat whatever you want. You'd think FitGAF would go about dieting the right way, given how technical we all are about how our lifts look.

 

[blackflag]

What the fuck, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to overload on complex carbs, not have 95% of the carbs be pure sugar. Some of you are taking this overloading/bulking thing way too far, thinking you can eat whatever you want. You'd think FitGAF would go about dieting the right way, given how technical we all are about how our lifts look.

Actually the opposite is recommended for carb loads at least when depleted. Personally though the only carb I eat now except for rare occasions is Ezekiel bread, brown rice and sweet potato. Sugar fucks me up. I guess being a former obese I still might be a bit insulin resistant or something.

When I did keto though for a year, the best carb ups were simple sugars.

 

[kevo_huevo]

ughh, just had to vent. i haven't been to the gym in a week, and i think the lack of sleep and physical/mental exhaustion has caught up to me.

i tried to suck it up and pick things up where i left off, and on my last set of bench, struggled mightily. didn't ask for a spotter either. i couldn't put up the last rep and (stupidly) tried to set the bar back on the lower set of pegs on the bench. missed the left side and ended up dropping the bar on my fucking chin and neck. now i've basically got barbell burn on my chin and neck, and i feel like i've got a lump in my throat a la that strep throat feeling. this pretty much ruined my mood for the rest of my session. i feel like such a dingus because this all could have been avoided.

 

[Nelo Ice]

So I've been sick for like the past 2 weeks and this week was for the first time I felt somewhat normal. Finally got my appetite back but I'm still coughing up mucous and coughing in general here and there. I tried lifting on monday but basically had no energy to do much of anything. Tempted to attempt deadlifting soon but feel as though it'll be pointless since yesterday went so badly. Anyway I'm thinking I'll have to restart again next week hopefully getting healthy. Figure I should just lower the weights to what I did last month or lower for 5/3/1.

 

[TheOctodad]

ughh, just had to vent. i haven't been to the gym in a week, and i think the lack of sleep and physical/mental exhaustion has caught up to me.

i tried to suck it up and pick things up where i left off, and on my last set of bench, struggled mightily. didn't ask for a spotter either. i couldn't put up the last rep and (stupidly) tried to set the bar back on the lower set of pegs on the bench. missed the left side and ended up dropping the bar on my fucking chin and neck. now i've basically got barbell burn on my chin and neck, and i feel like i've got a lump in my throat a la that strep throat feeling. this pretty much ruined my mood for the rest of my session. i feel like such a dingus because this all could have been avoided.

Lesson learned, bad day, move on. Don't skip for a week next time ;-)

I idiotically hit my head doing a heavy snatch a few weeks ago. Almost knocked myself out. ..

 

[MrOogieBoogie]

Who to trust on benching more: Dave Tate or Mark Rippetoe?

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Who to trust on benching more: Dave Tate or Mark Rippetoe?

Both, unless they're directly contradicting, in which case you may need to work out how each bit of advice applies to your individual build/mechanics. Some cues/tips are universal, others are not.

Spoiler

Tate. Maybe.

 

[Izayoi]

"Come with me if you want to lift"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZV3aZfextU

This should be in the OT.


For Izayoi, do any type of compound routine, Starting Strength, 5x5 madcow, greyskull lp, etc.

I like greyskull because you do the compound lifts but can also customize it. It's flexible and deloading isn't frowned upon, it's encouraged. You also aren't squatting 3 times a week. Starting Strength is very strict and their followers act like a cult. God forbid if you want to add 1 set of bicep curls. So that may be a bit off putting but it's good for total noobs who always want to add more exercises (which is whp the routine is aimed for). But if you decide to do SS, don't follow Rippetoe's way of doing power cleans, I've heard a lot of people say he teaches it wrong (by teaching his shrug technique instead of the triple extension).

Right on. The general consensus seems to be start with SS. I'm going to have my trainer show me proper form for deadlifting (I've always been scared of this shit, seems like a great way to hurt yourself) and power cleans and then just do SS. How long should I keep at it? Just until my gains slow down?

If what you're doing is really working for you I'd be wary of changing things just because it seems odd to us. I would say though that the electronic body fat testers aren't reliable enough to go on, and after a certain point above 10% it becomes very difficult to self-assess whether the weight you're gaining is more muscle than fat. While it's still not completely accurate, I advise tracking skinfold measurements using a body fat caliper, and try to come to conclusions based on those measurements over time. Alternately, you could just do a quick and dirty waist measurement every week or so, using a seamstress ruler or whatever they're called. That's far from accurate but is easy and cheap vs getting a good caliper.

After a while you come to have a sense of how fast you gain, how many calories you actually need to eat to gain/lose, protein requirements, etc.

I'll look into getting a caliper. Can you measure somewhere that isn't the stomach? I'm worried about my excess skin fucking it up. My waist will not be shrinking anymore, I can tell you that much. I went from a 42 to a 30, the smallest I've been since I was a young teenager (when I was still 6ft, but just over 140lbs).

I don't mean bizarre in a mean way, it's just a very a-typical intake.

I gotcha. Is there just more variety in the average diet or what? Like I said, I'm completely open to suggestions.

any of you guys ever try or do yoga? i know this is a big lifting thread, and i already lift. friend lent me ddp yoga and im gonna try it later tonight. trying to get my flexibility better. i'm mainly doing it as something else to do in the winter besides sit on my ass

Yoga is fucking awesome, it kicks my ass every time and has helped my flexibility a lot.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Same boat man. I've never been healthy in my life until a few years ago. I have visible abs even with the body fat I have right now, I'm so excited to cut down.

Right? Growing up I didn't think I'd ever see my abs, so it's mind boggling to me when I look at pics from the end of a cut and see just how ripped I really got. I didn't think it was possible.

I really can't wait to get this cut again, summer can't come soon enough.

 

[n0n44m]

I normally do shorter burst (500/1000m sprints). It's not my main focus, so it could be better. I can hit around a 3 minute 1k pretty frequently though.

damn close to 3 min @ 1K requires loads of power ... takes me 3:25 at best currently

after 7 months I've now reached 1000 km on the C2, but there's still a long way to go before I hit my weight loss & CV fitness goals. Guess I should look into lifting/yoga once I hit them

 

[Oblivion]

I should know this question, but someone refresh my memory. Why is it a bad idea to gain weight too quickly? Cause most of it will go to your stomach? (limiting this to guys, of course)

 

[Oblivion]

Right? Growing up I didn't think I'd ever see my abs, so it's mind boggling to me when I look at pics from the end of a cut and see just how ripped I really got. I didn't think it was possible.

I really can't wait to get this cut again, summer can't come soon enough.

Is that you? Dude, you're a goddamned BEAST!

 

[despire]

Right on. The general consensus seems to be start with SS. I'm going to have my trainer show me proper form for deadlifting (I've always been scared of this shit, seems like a great way to hurt yourself) and power cleans and then just do SS.

Assuming you trainer actually has any idea how to perform the lifts. Most standard trainers have no idea how to do squats or deadlifts right. Just buy the SS book. It's like 10 bucks for the ebook.

 

[Izayoi]

Assuming you trainer actually has any idea how to perform the lifts. Most standard trainers have no idea how to do squats or deadlifts right. Just buy the SS book. It's like 10 bucks for the ebook.

Alright, I bought the book.

I still kind of like having someone there to talk me through it, you know? Especially with an exercise that I've never tried before.

 

[A More Normal Bird]

I should know this question, but someone refresh my memory. Why is it a bad idea to gain weight too quickly? Cause most of it will go to your stomach? (limiting this to guys, of course)

There's a limit to how much muscle a natural trainee can put on in a certain period of time, therefore beyond a certain point most/all of the mass gained in that time will be fat. However if you don't care too much about this you can get a lot stronger by bulking extra hard.

Alright, I bought the book.

I still kind of like having someone there to talk me through it, you know? Especially with an exercise that I've never tried before.

Sure, but if there's anything in the book that differs significantly from what your trainer says, go with the book. If you're not sure if it's a significant difference, ask on here.

 

[Oblivion]

There's a limit to how much muscle a natural trainee can put on in a certain period of time, therefore beyond a certain point most/all of the mass gained in that time will be fat. However if you don't care too much about this you can get a lot stronger by bulking extra hard.

Yeah, I understand the bit about only being able to build a limited amount of muscle in a certain time frame, and so most of that mass will be fat. What I mean is, if you bulk up too quickly, will that fat be distributed unevenly throughout your body? I ask that cause I'm still a skinny guy (though I've made some decent gains throughout the past few months), and while I would like to build muscle (obviously), I would be happy with just filling out my clothes as a start.

 

[antronoid]

Just finished an intense session of Assassins Creed whilst cycling on my exercise bike.... who said playing games was a bad thing?

 

[A More Normal Bird]

Yeah, I understand the bit about only being able to build a limited amount of muscle in a certain time frame, and so most of that mass will be fat. What I mean is, if you bulk up too quickly, will that fat be distributed unevenly throughout your body? I ask that cause I'm still a skinny guy (though I've made some decent gains throughout the past few months), and while I would like to build muscle (obviously), I would be happy with just filling out my clothes as a start.

No idea. Fat will go where fat will go; everyone's a little different but generally the spot where it first appears is the spot where it's last to come off. For men that's the stomach. However I've never heard of the rate of fat gain/loss significantly changing its distribution so if you're at a relatively low bf% I don't think you'd have much to worry about.