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Formula 1 2017 Season |OT| Japanese Horror Story - Sundays on Sky

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The McLarens for Hakkinen's first championship were the most OP cars I've ever seen. Didn't they both lap everyone in Melbourne when DC obeyed team orders to let Hakkinen back in front after the pitstops due to a 'gentleman's agreement'.

Damn you're right, that car was ridiculous. Recent Mercedes and the Williams Mansell drove to the championship also come to mind as vulgar displays of power in F1.

Schumacher finishing acceptably close to Hakkinen that year was also a great underrated result.

I honestly think that if that season ended the way it started car wise Button would not have been the champion that year.

Rubens? Why?
 
Rubens? Why?
It's actually hard for me to theorize who would've won it if the cars were more equal in the beginning the way they were in the end. The Red Bull was good, the Ferrari was getting better, The McLaren actually came alive and the Brawns were more suitable to both drivers with Button whinging all over the place. Even if Button still won it he would've had to fight more through out the entirety of it cause he wouldn't have had the point cushion from the first quarter of the season.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
I thought it was odd that Alonso retired after that double-pass late in the race in Melbourne with 'problems'.

Then when he was passed yesterday, I said to my GF as we were watching the race back on-demand: "I bet you he'll 'mysteriously' have a problem now and retire" - and that's exactly what happened.

Are we sure he's not just rage-quitting at the end of races?

Ted suggested during Ted's Notebook that the Spanish media had heard exactly that from Alonso: that if he isn't in the points at the end of the race he will retire the car on purpose.

McLaren's statement after the race ("Alonso felt like there was a problem with the engine") supports this. You wouldn't say that your driver "felt like there was a problem" if there had actually been a problem.

I wonder whether he does that to troll the Team and Honda, or whether the team and him are both doing this to put more pressure on Honda and force them to maybe invest more resources into engine development. It's kinda silly and childish either way. They are burning bridges here if they continue, much like Red Bull did with Renault.
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
Ferrari's dominance in that era was just ridiculous. I think for three seasons in a row they used to turn up for the first part of the season in a modified version of the old chassis and still win.

ah golden years of Ferrari International Assistance era :D
 

Loris146

Member
Ferrari's dominance in that era was just ridiculous. I think for three seasons in a row they used to turn up for the first part of the season in a modified version of the old chassis and still win.

Yup. Good old times :) Saw Schumi testing the car in Fiorano ( i live near Maranello ) ... Nice memories...
 
It's actually hard for me to theorize who would've won it if the cars were more equal in the beginning the way they were in the end. The Red Bull was good, the Ferrari was getting better, The McLaren actually came alive and the Brawns were more suitable to both drivers with Button whinging all over the place. Even if Button still won it he would've had to fight more through out the entirety of it cause he wouldn't have had the point cushion from the first quarter of the season.

Oh I misunderstood you at first, I thought you said that if the Brawns kept dominating then Button wouldn't have won it which would mean his teammate would have won. If the Brawns weren't so ridiculous early on, there's a good chance that would have been a dispute between Vettel and Webber as the Red Bulls were the only other somewhat reliable cars at that point in the season. Aside from the Brawns, the only other driver to finish in the top 10 in races they didn't retire in all of the first 10 races in that season was Hamilton fans favorite Timo Glock. That's insane.
 
Oh I misunderstood you at first, I thought you said that if the Brawns kept dominating then Button wouldn't have won it which would mean his teammate would have won. If the Brawns weren't so ridiculous early on, there's a good chance that would have been a dispute between Vettel and Webber as the Red Bulls were the only other somewhat reliable cars at that point in the season. Aside from the Brawns, the only other driver to finish in the top 10 in races they didn't retire in all of the first 10 races in that season was Hamilton fans favorite Timo Glock. That's insane.
Yeah the season end was kind of an inverse of how it began, everything became a bit more equalized and the cars became more varied pace wise depending on the track. The Red Bulls were the only things to put up a fight at the beginning, but towards the end it got a bit surprising with how level it became.
 

Juicy Bob

Member
Ted suggested during Ted's Notebook that the Spanish media had heard exactly that from Alonso: that if he isn't in the points at the end of the race he will retire the car on purpose.

McLaren's statement after the race ("Alonso felt like there was a problem with the engine") supports this. You wouldn't say that your driver "felt like there was a problem" if there had actually been a problem.

I wonder whether he does that to troll the Team and Honda, or whether the team and him are both doing this to put more pressure on Honda and force them to maybe invest more resources into engine development. It's kinda silly and childish either way. They are burning bridges here if they continue, much like Red Bull did with Renault.
If that really is what he's doing (and that is a big 'if', because this is quite a major thing to accuse a driver of doing with limited evidence) then I've lost significant respect for Alonso.

It wouldn't be the first time I did, either.
 

Jezbollah

Member
Damn you're right, that car was ridiculous

That car was only ridiculous for one race, the Australian GP. Then some ballsy photographer took a pic of the secret rear brake pedal that they were using to steer the car with - that got banned and they suddenly became less competitive than they were :)
 

FrankCanada97

Roughly the size of a baaaaaarge
Look who's getting ready to test for Toro Rosso:

17881879_904227039717230_3714515410977030144_n.jpg

From his instagram:
gelaelizedBlessed. Pumped for the F1 test with @officialtororosso tomorrow. #DontJudgeSoFast #WorkInSilence

Don't judge so fast? I think 4 years of being at the rear of every single seater series he competed in is enough time to judge his talent. The only good thing to come out of Gelael's career is Antonio Giovinazzi.
 

Saiyu

Junior Member
Look who's getting ready to test for Toro Rosso:



From his instagram:
gelaelizedBlessed. Pumped for the F1 test with @officialtororosso tomorrow. #DontJudgeSoFast #WorkInSilence

Don't judge so fast? I think 4 years of being at the rear of every single seater series he competed in is enough time to judge his talent. The only good thing to come out of Gelael's career is Antonio Giovinazzi.
Why's he getting a test?

I thought Red Bull were notorious for not keeping on stragglers
 
If that really is what he's doing (and that is a big 'if', because this is quite a major thing to accuse a driver of doing with limited evidence) then I've lost significant respect for Alonso.

It wouldn't be the first time I did, either.

Strategic retirement, 4 races, 4 new gearboxes. McLaren's gearbox is borked and responsible for 95% of the problems. Alonso blaming the engine when there was nothing wrong is something only a cunt would do, and Alonso is a massive cunt.

MGU issues were down to a loss of water pressure.
 

h3ro

Member
Just spent the last half hour watching youtube clips lf Schumi dusting fools in that F2004. Loved those specifications, when I think F1, that's what immediately comes to mind.

I hope this new F1 management regime gives us an F1 digital subscription for live races and for watching previous seasons as well. I'd be willing to pay a substantial fee for that access yearly. Heck, just plug me in to the Sky coverage if you have to, just no more NBCSN.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
If that really is what he's doing (and that is a big 'if', because this is quite a major thing to accuse a driver of doing with limited evidence) then I've lost significant respect for Alonso.

It wouldn't be the first time I did, either.

If he feels there's an issue creeping up, retiring to save the engine from grenading could be wise at that point. What the hell is a last lap out of the points worth.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
If he feels there's an issue creeping up, retiring to save the engine from grenading could be wise at that point. What the hell is a last lap out of the points worth.

With the engine rules (4 engines to last a season) - is there an advantage to be gained if you don't technically finish?
 
If he feels there's an issue creeping up, retiring to save the engine from grenading could be wise at that point. What the hell is a last lap out of the points worth.

Apparently he has an agreement with the team. He will give 100% in the race and push as hard as he can but if he isn't in the points by the last lap he will retire the car. Ted mentioned it in the post race notebook.
 

DD

Member
How many F1 titles these families have exactly? 32?

wec-silverstone-2017-bruno-senna-vaillante-rebellion-racing-mathias-lauda-aston-martin-rac.jpg

Bruno Senna, Mathias Lauda, Nicolas Prost, Nelson Piquet Jr., Nelson Piquet, Pietro Fittipaldi, Pedro Piquet, Harrison Newey and Mick Schumacher
 

Kyougar

Member
How many F1 titles these families have exactly? 32?

wec-silverstone-2017-bruno-senna-vaillante-rebellion-racing-mathias-lauda-aston-martin-rac.jpg

Bruno Senna, Mathias Lauda, Nicolas Prost, Nelson Piquet Jr., Nelson Piquet, Pietro Fittipaldi, Pedro Piquet, Harrison Newey and Mick Schumacher

But only the Hill and Rosberg families have a father and son winning both a WDC if I remember correctly.
 

dubc35

Member
Apparently he has an agreement with the team. He will give 100% in the race and push as hard as he can but if he isn't in the points by the last lap he will retire the car. Ted mentioned it in the post race notebook.
Given there is no guarantee they score any points this season it seems like an idiotic decision based on WCC standings payouts...unless they do expect no points lol.
 

Wellington

BAAAALLLINNN'
Some questions:

What is the point for the lower tier teams and drivers? Like I have seen excitement for Force India and Haas as well as for Hulk and Grosjean in general, but why? What is the point of spending millions on building a car and being out there with automatically being out of the top 6 places for the most part...?

What do you guys mean by quali trim and race trim? Do the cars really change that much in 1 day?

Has a driver ever been fired mid-season? Like if Stroll keeps crashing would they bail on him?

Like I said last page I am 3 races in and really loving it. I had to get my car serviced today and while there picked up my first F1 shirt. Expensive but now I have something to wear for the next meetup!
 

DBT85

Member
Some questions:

What is the point for the lower tier teams and drivers? Like I have seen excitement for Force India and Haas as well as for Hulk and Grosjean in general, but why? What is the point of spending millions on building a car and being out there with automatically being out of the top 6 places for the most part...?

Same as any sport really, whats the point in finishing bottom of the league in NHL or NFL or NBA or Football? You take part because you want to compete and want to win. Nobody is going to win straight away, so the hope is that this year you do better than last year, and certainly don't do worse than last year.

Force India for example have gradually managed to claw their way up the Constructors Championship over the last 9 years since they started in 2008 (though this team was actually formed in 1991 as Team Jordan, most teams have changed hands a few times!). This has been in part helped by Mclaren dropping way back, Renault dropping back, FI having the Mercedes engine and generally doing a solid if not spectacular job. In 2008 they finished 10th in the table out of 11 entrants, of which, one pulled out of the championship after just 4 races and went into administration.

Contrast that to FI currently being 4th in this years table, finishing 4th last year, 5th the year before, 6th the 2 years before that, then 7th, 6th, 7th and 9th in the years before that.

Hulk and Grosjean are just generally liked I think, they are decent drivers that have shown hints of what might be if they had a better car thought I don;t think anyone would expect them to be close to Vettel/Hamilton levels. Grosjean endured a tumultuous start to his F1 career after making the jump from GP2, not in his actual debut season with Renault so much, but more with when he returned after a year out to the Lotus (used to be Renault, and is now Renault again) team. He caused/was involved in many accidents and so was called Crashjean around these parts.

What do you guys mean by quali trim and race trim? Do the cars really change that much in 1 day?

The car itself doesn't change at all, no. This is because as soon as the car leaves the garage in Q1 on Saturday, the car is in "Parc Ferme" which means they can only change specific things like front wing angle, tyre pressures and a few other bits. They can't change the rear wing angle, they can't change suspension geometry etc.

What they do change however will be a collection of settings on the steering wheel which will do all sorts of things to the car to do with engine modes, diff settings, brake bias etc. You can go very fast for 1 or 2 laps, but it wouldn't work for the whole race as the engine would use too much fuel (105kg limit), or tyres would degrade too fast, parts would wear too fast etc.

Quali trim is basically "Turn everything to 11".
Race trim is "Use setting 8 and use 10 if needed during the race"

Has a driver ever been fired mid-season? Like if Stroll keeps crashing would they bail on him?

Yes. Just last year Red Bull dropped Kvyat after just 4 races and put Verstappen in his seat. It was a demotion/promotion scenario as they swapped between Torro Rosso and Red Bull.

Like I said last page I am 3 races in and really loving it. I had to get my car serviced today and while there picked up my first F1 shirt. Expensive but now I have something to wear for the next meetup!

Glad you are enjoying it, a great year to start with a fight for Lewis and Seb looking to be a good one all year. Cars are looking mighty fine too!


Did you manage to watch that Grand Prix the killer Years documentary by the way? or the Senna film or Rush?
 
Some questions:

What is the point for the lower tier drivers?
Running an F1 team is a business and there are three major sources of income
  • Chamionship prize money
  • Sponsorship
  • Seat money
Before the start of the season, a lower tier team may feel that they can achieve 7th in a championship, giving them $70m in prize money with a 'standard' driver. However, more sponsorship opportunities may arise from a hiring a lower-skilled handsome-rich-kid driver. The team would then do some calculations:
  • Handsome Rich-kid has ties to Mega-Soda-Corp and could bring in a sponsorship $11m
  • Handsome Rich-kid's dad wants his son to become famous and would pay for the seat, bringing in $1m 'seat money'
  • Less points would drop us from 7th to 9th in the championship, losing $7m prize money
  • There would be more accidents and car repairs, losing around $1m
So...
Standard driver = $70m
But...
Shit driver 70m+11m+1m-7m-1m = $74m

As you can see in the example above, there are some situations where finishing further down the field can net more income. Try for yourself with Motorsport Manager
 

Randdalf

Member
I'm bemused by the current posts. What are we supposed to be understanding by these times?

Yeah I didn't actually realise he'd only done 4 laps.

We're talking about Sean Galeal, possibly the payiest of pay drivers, given how badly he has done in the feeder series and yet is still testing in F1.
 

Mastah

Member
I'm bemused by the current posts. What are we supposed to be understanding by these times?

I thought it was obvious. Only after 2 laps there was another Honda engine problem, water leak in ERS and they are changing whole power unit right now. But what's even more horrible is that:

It is understood that the engine being used by Turvey was a new test specification that had been shipped from Honda's Sakura facility in Japan, with the replacement unit being fitted also a new one.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda-hits-fresh-problems-in-bahrain-f1-test-895362/
 

Mohonky

Member
How can Honda be this shit? Are they actively trying to be shit or something? God imagine if it was in the Redbull.....
 

Solaire of Astora

Death by black JPN
What's the worst that could happen to Force India in this situation?

The absolute worst is that the team disappear from the grid mid-season. I imagine they'll be put up for auction at some point. The team has changed hands numerous times over the years, and this is the most competitive they've been since the late 90's, so hopefully a good buyer can be found.

Team Stroll. You heard it here first, people.

Was there no way to get Jenson in the car this week, or is it young drivers only?

It's not young drivers only. Hamilton and Vettel have 7 championships between them. Strange that Mclaren never took the opportunity, though. Maybe they don't want Jenson to see how bad the car is until it's too late for him to come up with an excuse.

Has a driver ever been fired mid-season?

Plenty. In fact, some fired drivers have been brought back because the one who replaced them was even worse. Of course, lack of talent isn't the only reason. Some drivers have been replaced because their sponsorship money ran out.

A young(ish) pay driver by the name of Mark Webber only brought enough funding to secure a seat for three races in 2002, but due to an excellent result at his first race, the Minardi team extended his deal until the end of the season. Had he not performed so well immediately, he may have been replaced by someone with more money.

Then there's the story of Bertrand Gachot, who was sent to prison in 1991 for assaulting a taxi driver, which caused him to miss a few races. The Jordan team (now force India, soon to be formula stroll) replaced him with a young driver who was making his Grand Prix debut. Some young guy by the name of Michael Schumacher.

Schumacher impressed so much that he found himself in a better car for the next race, much to Eddie Jordan's chagrin.

These are just two notable examples. There are countless more to be found. Sadly, the F1rejects website is no longer operational. That was probably the best place to learn about some of the more notorious drivers.
 

Spades

Member
It's not young drivers only. Hamilton and Vettel have 7 championships between them. Strange that Mclaren never took the opportunity, though. Maybe they don't want Jenson to see how bad the car is until it's too late for him to excuse himself.

Yeah, obviously regular drivers were allowed but assumed additional drivers needed to be classified as young if they wanted to run someone different. Just seems like a wasted opportunity to get Jenson used to the car if it isn't the case.

Actually, can't they only run experienced drivers for so many tests? Didn't Merc play this card by running Pascal in one test (when they thought Lewis was going to retire) which meant Lewis couldn't test the rest of the season or something?
 

Aiii

So not worth it
This test is two days for rookie drivers, two days for everyone else.

I can understand McLaren not wasting a test day on Button for a one-off appearance. Vandoorne needs to make some miles.
 
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