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[Okin]

so i've been reading through the last couple pages of this thread but I can't find an answer to the question about the cockpit view and framerate. has anyone addressed that? is it 30 fps inside?

are we expecting answers when Blim's 60 fps version of his last video is posted?

thanks.

I know this question was semi answered, but after hands-on today, I wanted to mention that some levels were running at 60 fps, and others lower. They're clearly still optimizing, but everything looks like its going to run at 60.

 

[op_ivy]

I've gotta disagree with you -- the glass breaking and tire damage were not in Forza 2. In my experience with that game, and I played every single race with maxed out difficulty and simulation settings, you never got anything more than a small amount of cosmetic damage and slight hampering to your cornering and speed.

My impression from all of the hands-on previews I've read is that even that damage is more significant in Forza 3, with it hurting the performance of the car much more, and coming off as more violent on screen.

Still, even if this were not the case, I don't see why you would argue that damage is a mixed blessing. At the very least, any type of performance damage from crashing gives incentive to players online to race clean -- I don't see the down side. This is almost certainly not a perfect damage model, and I that would truly be ideal for a sim -- but it's a small step forward, and much better than bouncing off walls like nothing happened.

first, your mistaking me with someone else regarding the "mixed bag" comments. i'm all for damage. i agree it encourages clean racing, plus, if i'm not mistaken, the damage can also be set to cosmetic only, or even turned off (may be getting it mixed up with shift).

second, where did you see glass break or tire damage? if this is shown in footage, direct me to it, or if its written specifically in a write up, post it. as far as i know (from what i've seen and read) the damage is basically the same as forza 2. i havent seen anything different in the footage. lots of slightly dented cars, paint scratches, and missing mirrors. thats it.

write ups have mentioned improved damage in pretty generic terms though, but they seem to be just parroting the pr talk from turn 10. maybe it really is much improved, but again, i havent seen it with my own eyes, or read specific instances of others seeing it first hand, so i'm doubtful at this point.

 

[Shinjitsu]

AHH the more I see of this game, the harder it is for me to put in Forza 2, and I need my Sim racing fix. October can't come soon enough.

 

[seattle6418]

Couldn't say in the other thread, but this F3 x GT5 thing is turning into a Kobe x LeBron fight. People will diminish the fact that both are great to prove that one is better than the other.

I really believe Turn 10 is putting fuel into the fire with their remarks. A fanboy war with both titles will only help them. Instead of just a "consolation prize" for xbox users the game becomes a true challenger for the title of best racing sim.

They just want to spread the word that their game is better. If there's one thing that Forza is 10000X better, is with their communication with the hardcore fans. They are profiting for going foward and not only showing their hand, but also gloating about it.

----------------------

About the damage, two things: i'm not biting the GTR team thing. Couldn't you tweak, paint and wreck the R35 on Need for Speed Pro Street? (even roll overs if i'm not mistaken). So... since the GTR team is close to PD, could they do this just to prevent the car from being on GT's rival?

Secondly, i haven't played the game yet, but from what i saw, i still haven't seen anyone show me what the deal is with the flipping cars over feature.

What i saw was a Ford GT running into an undestructable barrier and rolling over, taking absolutely no damage (not even cracked windshield) and then proceeding to race. If that's the case, rolling over does nothing and it's worthless. But since it might be just the trailer, i hope the roll over adds realism to the game, resulting on a DNF afterwards.

Can somebody that tried the demo elaborate on this one? Because if it's touted as a great feature, it HAS to do something right?

 

[DopeyFish]

Secondly, i haven't played the game yet, but from what i saw, i still haven't seen anyone show me what the deal is with the flipping cars over feature.

What i saw was a Ford GT running into an undestructable barrier and rolling over, taking absolutely no damage (not even cracked windshield) and then proceeding to race. If that's the case, rolling over does nothing and it's worthless. But since it might be just the trailer, i hope the roll over adds realism to the game, resulting on a DNF afterwards.

Can somebody that tried the demo elaborate on this one? Because if it's touted as a great feature, it HAS to do something right?

a) rollovers are part of realistic physics.... you can't tout your game as a true sim if you're not properly simulating the weight of the cars and the impacts of collision at high speed

b) the video you watched possibly had no damage or only cosmetic damage? i'm sure they'd still allow a rollover on any damage mode

 

[op_ivy]

Couldn't say in the other thread, but this F3 x GT5 thing is turning into a Kobe x LeBron fight. People will diminish the fact that both are great to prove that one is better than the other.

I really believe Turn 10 is putting fuel into the fire with their remarks. A fanboy war with both titles will only help them. Instead of just a "consolation prize" for xbox users the game becomes a true challenger for the title of best racing sim.

They just want to spread the word that their game is better. If there's one thing that Forza is 10000X better, is with their communication with the hardcore fans. They are profiting for going foward and not only showing their hand, but also gloating about it.

----------------------

About the damage, two things: i'm not biting the GTR team thing. Couldn't you tweak, paint and wreck the R35 on Need for Speed Pro Street? (even roll overs if i'm not mistaken). So... since the GTR team is close to PD, could they do this just to prevent the car from being on GT's rival?

Secondly, i haven't played the game yet, but from what i saw, i still haven't seen anyone show me what the deal is with the flipping cars over feature.

What i saw was a Ford GT running into an undestructable barrier and rolling over, taking absolutely no damage (not even cracked windshield) and then proceeding to race. If that's the case, rolling over does nothing and it's worthless. But since it might be just the trailer, i hope the roll over adds realism to the game, resulting on a DNF afterwards.

Can somebody that tried the demo elaborate on this one? Because if it's touted as a great feature, it HAS to do something right?

pretty sure once rolled, the race is over with sim damage on. in one of the videos, the player is trying to roll his car and after several failed attempts and rewinds to try again, he pulls it off, and is shocked to discover the game wont let him rewind after rolling.

i dont think rolling is really a huge deal, especially since the damage is pretty tame on the cars. its nothing like when you roll your car in dirt for example. but it is kind of cool because i know that it is something that usually isnt allowed with production cars and should be fun for the "sandbox".

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

pretty sure once rolled, the race is over with sim damage on. in one of the videos, the player is trying to roll his car and after several failed attempts and rewinds to try again, he pulls it off, and is shocked to discover the game wont let him rewind after rolling.

i dont think rolling is really a huge deal, especially since the damage is pretty tame on the cars. its nothing like when you roll your car in dirt for example. but it is kind of cool because i know that it is something that usually isnt allowed with production cars and should be fun for the "sandbox".

The big thing for me with rolling is it just removes an artificial barrier to realism that was there before. It's not a game changer, but it's nice to see the restriction removed. It could provide for some occasional fun moments too, especially with the inclusion of top heavy cars like SUV's.

 

[adelante]

Nice. I like the fact that other cars now reflect off the hood.

Yeah even Shift's doing that now

 

[DopeyFish]

pretty sure once rolled, the race is over with sim damage on. in one of the videos, the player is trying to roll his car and after several failed attempts and rewinds to try again, he pulls it off, and is shocked to discover the game wont let him rewind after rolling.

i dont think rolling is really a huge deal, especially since the damage is pretty tame on the cars. its nothing like when you roll your car in dirt for example. but it is kind of cool because i know that it is something that usually isnt allowed with production cars and should be fun for the "sandbox".

the reason why he couldn't rewind was because someone crossed the finish line.

 

[op_ivy]

The big thing for me with rolling is it just removes an artificial barrier to realism that was there before. It's not a game changer, but it's nice to see the restriction removed. It could provide for some occasional fun moments too, especially with the inclusion of top heavy cars like SUV's.

yeah, exactly. aside from screwing around, i dont think i'll roll to many cars in my forza career, but i hated getting in huge accidents in other games, ones in which the car was sure to roll, but instead it just magically flops back onto its wheels

the reason why he couldn't rewind was because someone crossed the finish line.

oh? ok then

Yeah even Shift's doing that now

pgr4 was first IIRC

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Yeah even Shift's doing that now

The PGR team figured out a trick in bonnet cam to get completely perfect reflections. They store the previous frame in memory and simply use that for their cubemap and map it to the hood. I suspect after they said that a bunch of other teams decided that was a good way to do it and now a bunch of games have perfect reflections in the hood cam.

pgr4 was first IIRC

Yeah. PGR3 actually featured car-car reflections in garage mode, but they were absent everywhere else.

 

[twinturbo2]

So, has there been an answer for my question about getting a wheel other than the Fanatec one?

 

[mujun]

bye bye andronicus? two for one with deadgzuz?

 

[Iknos]

So, support for Logitech wheels, right? Every racing enthusiast has them.

If not... stop with the definitive racing game bullshit.

Actually I've been reading reviews on hardcore racing sites and most of them rank the Fanatec wheel for the 360 as being better than the G25. I've only read ONE review where it was the other way around, and I think it was TechRadar. But all the sim racing sites love the Fanatec wheel.

Still, I'd like to be able to use my DFP for a second wheel for some 2P action. I think MS should make a dongle to support it and I agree that something has to be done. Logitech wheels are far more available and are priced at different price points, some of them very affordable.

I think the paint shaders look more realistic in Forza3 than the ones in GT5. The GT cars always end up looking like rubber/plastic to me.

This could be debated forever. I personally think GT's look better. But T10 really closed the gap where it's barely distinguishable to most (but not to me).

But I do recognize that unlike GT, Forza has dirt, grime, and tire residue building up on the cars throughout long races. It's a neat touch that really adds to the realism.

right, with the exception of flipping the car, all of that was in f2. everything seen in videos from e3, again with the exception of flipping cars, also looks on par with f2. the only media showing any advanced damage is the "community at play" video in which the car flips through the air amid tons of bits of its body work, but that video likely isnt indicative of the actual game

Damage was gradually done in the Forza series. In FM1 they could only have bumpers and certain part hang off, and couldn't have them fall off outright. In FM2, they were able to convince manufacturers to allow for sideview mirrors and parts falling off. I'd think that they've pushed manufacturers even further.

Agreed, I remember people complaining about Forza 2 not having "3D" grass :lol

Well it did have 3d plants and polygonal grass but I think it was implemented poorly. GT5 used sprites in many cases and it looked much better. In the end it doesn't matter if you're a poly or a sprite, but how you add to the overall look of the game.

What i saw was a Ford GT running into an undestructable barrier and rolling over, taking absolutely no damage (not even cracked windshield) and then proceeding to race. If that's the case, rolling over does nothing and it's worthless. But since it might be just the trailer, i hope the roll over adds realism to the game, resulting on a DNF afterwards.

Can somebody that tried the demo elaborate on this one? Because if it's touted as a great feature, it HAS to do something right?

One video demonstrated they were using a debug command to perform the rollover for them because it's hard to replicate in normal circumstances. So I'm guessing he ran into the wall and showed the rollover for effect. In another vid, the guy was trying to rollover (but failed) but mentioned that once he does he's basically out of the race.

You should sustain damage to your tires and suspension but your engine can still survive a rollover. The thing is that your suspension and drivetrain should be FUBARed to the point where you just can't drive. But sometimes if you rollover just once and manage to come back to your tires, you might be able to drive. It all really depends on what speeds it happens at. So I hope it's accordingly realistic.

My issue with the rollover is that it feels like you have a rollcage...because that roof should collapse and crumple on any production vehicle.

 

[twinturbo2]

Actually I've been reading reviews on hardcore racing sites and most of them rank the Fanatec wheel for the 360 as being better than the G25. I've only read ONE review where it was the other way around, and I think it was TechRadar. But all the sim racing sites love the Fanatec wheel.

Still, I'd like to be able to use my DFP for a second wheel for some 2P action. I think MS should make a dongle to support it and I agree that something has to be done. Logitech wheels are far more available and are priced at different price points, some of them very affordable.

If the Fanatec is it, I hope they make more than the 10,000 they plan on making.

 

[adelante]

The PGR team figured out a trick in bonnet cam to get completely perfect reflections. They store the previous frame in memory and simply use that for their cubemap and map it to the hood. I suspect after they said that a bunch of other teams decided that was a good way to do it and now a bunch of games have perfect reflections in the hood cam.



Yeah. PGR3 actually featured car-car reflections in garage mode, but they were absent everywhere else.

Heh yeah I pointed this out (PGR4's implementation) in that thread we had bout realtime raytracing Glad everybody's following suit tho I'll be surprise if GT5 doesn't heh

 

[Chrange]

Taniguti Zyun.

So you're basing that on an interview posted on a Japanese website, probably based on a dubious translation via Google or Babelfish?

Unbe-fucking-lievable.

 

[KHarvey16]

So you're basing that on an interview posted on a Japanese website, probably based on a dubious translation via Google or Babelfish?

Unbe-fucking-lievable.

Especially after saying:

did you see other devs running around saying 1080p 1080p 1080p...you get the point

He's delusional.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

My issue with the rollover is that it feels like you have a rollcage...because that roof should collapse and crumple on any production vehicle.

i have to believe this is limited by the manufacturers. i can't imagine them letting T10 simulate roofs caving in on rollover. the fact that they let them roll the cars at all seems like a monumental achievement for a sim.

 

[Iknos]

If the Fanatec is it, I hope they make more than the 10,000 they plan on making.

This wouldn't be an issue if MS made a comparable wheel to begin with. I don't mind the FFB and the rumble (which is a great feature my DFP doesn't have), but the lack of 900 degree movement, large deadzone, off-center alignment, and horribly engineered base + clamp, really put it behind even the DFP (which is the same price).

i have to believe this is limited by the manufacturers. i can't imagine them letting T10 simulate roofs caving in on rollover. the fact that they let them roll the cars at all seems like a monumental achievement for a sim.

I totally agree. It just seems really odd, that's all.

I can't wait till I see my first rollover at an oval circuit endurance race.

 

[twinturbo2]

Let's just ignore Andronicus and get to my concerns. Will Fanatec produce more Porsche wheels, or is their limited edition model all that they're going to make? Che, I'd like an answer for this.

 

[twinturbo2]

This wouldn't be an issue if MS made a comparable wheel to begin with. I don't mind the FFB and the rumble (which is a great feature my DFP doesn't have), but the lack of 900 degree movement, large deadzone, off-center alignment, and horribly engineered base + clamp, really put it behind even the DFP (which is the same price).

Yeah, I stayed away from that junk for a reason. Will Logitech make a wheel?

 

[eso76]

pgr4 was first IIRC

actually the first game doing this i know of was...
True Crime: LA

the hilarious part is it used a screengrab complete with hud and stuff, so you could see the hud reflecting on cars too. Not only that, you could see your car reflecting an entire version of itself at times
Anyway, it's a simple trick and a very effective one, allows for higher res reflection maps and saves tons of resources. It's not as accurate as real cube mapping but it never ever looks wrong.

Also, those screengrabs from the trailer suggest that those are indeed ingame assets, going by the way the relatively simple geometry. I never noticed before the town on the cliff is the Amalfi Coast track

also present in gt4

 

[See]

I think Forza 3 has cube maps no matter what camera you are looking though, so the cars will always reflect other cars etc. This was a feature in Forza 2 but it was cut, glad to see it implemented here!

 

[Andronicus]

Especially after saying:



He's delusional.

quite possibly, the kool aid is strong

 

[letsbereasonable]

Sorry if this has been discussed, but search is down and I've only been half-monitoring the thread since E3.

What are the wheel options for the non-enthusiasts? I'm not particularly fond of the 360 wireless wheel and the Fanatec options looked a little expensive. Will anything decent in the $100-$150 range be available by the time this launches?

Edit: Just saw that the Fanatec 360 wheel is $189 in their webstore. That isn't too bad.
Edit2: Ton of wheel talk on this page! Reading comprehension am fail.

 

[Truespeed]

I love it when people use damage modeling to frame their arguments. No console can accurately simulate damage. It simply does not have the computing power to calculate and model damage because it cannot take into account, nor process, the infinite number of variables. So what we're left with is a system whose main purpose is to reflect the illusion of damage visually rather than to simulate it.

 

[Rad Agast]

The competition is only going to make both games better in the end.

Agreed. The more competitive both studios become the better it will be for me

 

[Rad Agast]

Blim how the hell does your site manage to pull this shit off dude? You have a small team yet you kick the ass of places like GT, IGN, GS, etc when it comes to video content which is way more important to me than the subjective opinions of anybody who doesn't share my tastes aka reviews.

Gamersyde has always been my go to site for high quality videos. <3 to the staff. You can tell they actually care more about the quality of their captures than being first to have vids up online.

 

[acm2000]

Too bad that isn't true at all. I don't want to turn this thread in a GT5 vs Forza 3 debate, but I suggest you'd look at the London track in GT5P.

But Forza 3 circuit tracks look better than the ones in GT5P.

the london track in that game looks awful in gameplay, but better in replay, PGR4 did city tracks much nicer

now someone confirm a f*****g demo date!

edit: another thing of note, forza 3 has full (ish) detail in the mirrors, not many games do that, Forza 2 did, glad to see theyve kept that, GT5P, PGR4/3 etc, all have very basic mirrors

 

[Rad Agast]

if you come on stage repeatedly touting the game runs at 1080p 60 frames a second etc repeatedly on a system that will do 1080p upscaling on virtually every game. what does that lead people to believe?

did you see other devs running around saying 1080p 1080p 1080p...you get the point

Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.

 

[Iknos]

Butthurt fanboy.

So what we're left with is a system whose main purpose is to reflect the illusion of damage visually rather than to simulate it.

Same thing could be said about graphics. We don't have the ability to ray-trace visuals, it would be too computationally intensive. So we settle with polygonal models, texturing, and various lighting techniques to approximate what we can.

Gamersyde has always been my go to site for high quality videos. <3 to the staff. You can tell they actually care more about the quality of their captures than being first to have vids up online.

I've been seeding all the e3 vids I got. That's probably the best way I can show my support right now.

Yeah, I stayed away from that junk for a reason. Will Logitech make a wheel?

I have no idea. I wonder if they were at E3. Where's the hard hitting journalism when you need it?

I've been eyeing the Obutto because this Fall looks to be racing heaven.

PIC: http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6439/obutto3mediumjw6.jpg (imageshack so I can't display it here)

$290 USD not bad. Considering I'll use it for many great racers, I think it's worth it. Of course it's not the best, but for its price, I think it's the best deal at the moment.

 

[Rad Agast]

I've gotta disagree with you -- the glass breaking and tire damage were not in Forza 2. In my experience with that game, and I played every single race with maxed out difficulty and simulation settings, you never got anything more than a small amount of cosmetic damage and slight hampering to your cornering and speed.

The damage model in Forza 2 covered almost every thing except for the cosmetic stuff (which was there but not to the degree I expected it to be).

Engine, gearbox, tire wear, aerodynamics, brakes, etc... they were all possible to damage during a race. How you can call that cosmetic damage is beyond me. The physics might not stack up to the PC stuff but for a 2007 game it was beyond most of the stuff on consoles.

Regarding Forza 3 damage, it's natural to expect it to be improved on when compared to 2 but I still need a demo to check the tire deformation model. I doubt that they'll add the ability to blow the tires even though I think that would be sweet to have.

If the Fanatec is it, I hope they make more than the 10,000 they plan on making.

If I'm not mistaken, they have a cheaper version planned after they finish with the limited edition ones. The price I heard was $150 or some number around that figure.

 

[Recoil]

Alright, I'll say it, since no one else has:

Is it just me, or watching these videos, does FM3 seem like it's a lot... faster than FM2?



The cars are just going a hell of a lot zippier, it's almost as if the game is playing at 1.5x speed. Go play a round of FM2 with the Murcielago, then compare it to Blim's new video, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's like the Lambo has suddenly become an R2 or R3 class car.


Yes? No? Someone tell me I'm just imagining it.

 

[Shogmaster]

I forgot to post this yesterday. Explanation about that whole "10x polygons of Forza 2" deal. Too many articles are totally mangling the info.

Forza 3 engine does NOT produce 10x geometry output of Forza 2 engine. I'm sure there are improvements in that regard, but what Turn 10 actually means by that whole 10x thing is that they have increased the polygon count of the cars in the highest detail LOD model of the cars by 10 times.

That's another straight poop from the dev at the show floor. Hope that clears things up.

 

[tahrikmili]

I love it when people use damage modeling to frame their arguments. No console can accurately simulate damage. It simply does not have the computing power to calculate and model damage because it cannot take into account, nor process, the infinite number of variables. So what we're left with is a system whose main purpose is to reflect the illusion of damage visually rather than to simulate it.

So you mean in the end it's a game? Wow.

Of course it 'simulates' damage, just as it 'simulates' driving.

One game does it better than the other. No need to get butthurt about it.

 

[Pistolero]

I forgot to post this yesterday. Explanation about that whole "10x polygons of Forza 2" deal. Too many articles are totally mangling the info.

Forza 3 engine does NOT produce 10x geometry output of Forza 2 engine. I'm sure there are improvements in that regard, but what Turn 10 actually means by that whole 10x thing is that they have increased the polygon count of the cars in the highest detail LOD model of the cars by 10 times.

That's another straight poop from the dev at the show floor. Hope that clears things up.

It perplexed me at first, but now things cleared up. Thanks for the explanation...

 

[Iknos]

I forgot to post this yesterday. Explanation about that whole "10x polygons of Forza 2" deal. Too many articles are totally mangling the info.

Forza 3 engine does NOT produce 10x geometry output of Forza 2 engine. I'm sure there are improvements in that regard, but what Turn 10 actually means by that whole 10x thing is that they have increased the polygon count of the cars in the highest detail LOD model of the cars by 10 times.

That's another straight poop from the dev at the show floor. Hope that clears things up.

I could tell when watching the vids. Both this and GT5 have noticable swapping of models when it gets to a certain distance. But overall it's good for both games, the cars look real sexy up close. Once you see it though, it's hard to unsee it.

 

[eso76]

I forgot to post this yesterday. Explanation about that whole "10x polygons of Forza 2" deal. Too many articles are totally mangling the info.

Forza 3 engine does NOT produce 10x geometry output of Forza 2 engine. I'm sure there are improvements in that regard, but what Turn 10 actually means by that whole 10x thing is that they have increased the polygon count of the cars in the highest detail LOD model of the cars by 10 times.

That's another straight poop from the dev at the show floor. Hope that clears things up.

Well, obviously. The new engine surely ensures better performance, but to bump the polycount to output 10x the geometry you would need black magic, not just a new engine
Then again, the majority of games we call technically impressive are using roughly the same resources as others, only carefully shifted towards the more apparent stuff. Lod, using the 'pgr reflections trick' etc all help freeing resources without impacting the visuals.

So you mean in the end it's a game? Wow.

Of course it 'simulates' damage, just as it 'simulates' driving.

One game does it better than the other. No need to get butthurt about it.

the point is you can't even simulate realistic deformation (well, burnout does, but that's a bit extreme) unless you model different damage levels by hand for each car, which is what i'm sure PD is doing for GT5 (Yamauchi did stress he wouldn't implement damage until he could make it look realistic) which is why i'm positive damage in GT5 will be limited to a number of selected cars in WRC events (possibly Nascar too, that would make sense)

 

[eso76]

9 minutes 1up interview with game producer and a funny guy i've never heard of called Che Chou.
Including lots of HD, apparently direct feed (or so it seems, i've only seen the low res youtube version) footage from car selection screen, ingame, replay...

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/25061

Edit: not sure why when devs demo the game they ALWAYS stop right after the race starts and allow for cpu controlled cars to go ahead and spread on the track...hmmm...

 

[isamu]

Actually I've been reading reviews on hardcore racing sites and most of them rank the Fanatec wheel for the 360 as being better than the G25.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-lXxaGUN0

 

[-viper-]

Wipeout HD isn't always 1080p.

Yes it is. It is ALWAYS *1080p.

 

[Cheeto]

Most of the sites that are covering the info on the wheels mentioned here are blocked for me. So is there an affordable ( < $300) wheel with all the good stuff (all pedals, ffb, good rotation) that works on all platforms?

 

[amar212]

Official forums have an intresting point-story about input-lag of TurboS wheel.

It is something worth to be adressed and any insight from the Che would be more than welcomed, thanx in advance.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2616539.aspx

Ogirinal link to community post where lag has been discussed:
http://my350z.com/forum/entertainme...otorsport-3-thread-aka-i-need-a-nutrag-5.html

 

[-viper-]

Most of the sites that are covering the info on the wheels mentioned here are blocked for me. So is there an affordable ( < $300) wheel with all the good stuff (all pedals, ffb, good rotation) that works on all platforms?

That Porsche wheel.

 

[isamu]

Most of the sites that are covering the info on the wheels mentioned here are blocked for me. So is there an affordable ( < $300) wheel with all the good stuff (all pedals, ffb, good rotation) that works on all platforms?

for 360? No, unfortunately. The reason I'm a PC racing sim convert

 

[Cheeto]

That Porsche wheel.

Any details? I thought that thing was like 400 euros.

 

[Psychotext]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-lXxaGUN0

Wow... that looks like it would happily break your wrists if you got on its bad side.

 

[Psychotext]

Official forums have an intresting point-story about input-lag of TurboS wheel.

It is something worth to be adressed and any insight from the Che would be more than welcomed, thanx in advance.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/2616539.aspx

Ogirinal link to community post where lag has been discussed:
http://my350z.com/forum/entertainme...otorsport-3-thread-aka-i-need-a-nutrag-5.html

Maybe they didn't put their LCDs in gaming mode.

 

[RSTEIN]

bye bye andronicus? two for one with deadgzuz?

Deadgzuz is the biggest troll on GAF. I've never seen a worse troll on here before. His sole reason to exist is to troll. He has never started a thread or participated in real discussion. He drops insults, trollish comments, lies, etc., then runs. How he isn't banned at this point is beyond me.

Andronicus... well I think he was momentarily high or something :lol