such an oversimplification. Its a terrible idea.
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French presidential candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon wants 100% tax on top salaries
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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such an oversimplification. Its a terrible idea.
Inflammable Slinky
Member
i'd rather have crazy candidates that shout about oppressing the rich than crazy candidates that shout about oppressing minorities (or buying gold)
Well, he doesn't have to, since French election campaigns are in part financed by the state.
He's polling well enough to become a factor in the second round of the election.
Deified Data
Banned
So income over a certain level is claimed by the government, regardless of how it was earned, regardless of how it can be used? This is ludicrous and just adds more venom to the "us vs. them" mindset. Dangerous.
Still, it'd be nice if the US had such a passionate liberal vying for power who wasn't insane.
Still, it'd be nice if the US had such a passionate liberal vying for power who wasn't insane.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
I'd rather have neither theocrats nor populists, is that too much to ask? It's like saying that Chavez is better than Ahmadinejad. He might very well be, but at that level no one can be called a winner.
BTW the whole "move to another country" argument is the stupidest thing I've heard against high taxes on the rich. It's sad that it works on fooling the poors. That said, I don't think the top rate should ever be above 50%.
If those people left the country, they would no longer have that salary, and they would live in what is likely a worse country. Nobody is trading down lifestyle because they don't like paying taxes.
If those people left the country, they would no longer have that salary, and they would live in what is likely a worse country. Nobody is trading down lifestyle because they don't like paying taxes.
Deified Data
Banned
Agreed. It's good to see passion from a leftist candidate, but when his policies are taken to such an extreme it does liberalism in general a disservice.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It's not like pussyfooting around is working any better. People like Mélenchon are the result of the mainstream left selling itself to the corporations.
If I could I would vote him for the lulz.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Europe really is getting a bit "1940ish" lately.
From the near dictatorship in Hungary to France's strong leftist pull.
Being honest though doesn't France REALLY need to get their shit together economics wise?
From the near dictatorship in Hungary to France's strong leftist pull.
Being honest though doesn't France REALLY need to get their shit together economics wise?
This rings pretty hollow when there is a massive tax haven right next door. Unless the French government plans on invading, that is.
You'd think so, but from my limited understanding of the situation, one of the reasons why our country hasn't been hit as hard as some other European countries is that the massive spending on welfare programs got money into people's hands. Said money has then been used to purchase goods and services, which helped our economy somewhat. Again, I might be totally fucking wrong on this, but killing growth in the name of budget balance does seem like a pretty bad idea.
Why is it stupid, though? It happens a lot. Are you saying it's stupid because it doesn't happen or because it doesn't have an impact? It certainly does happen. France has Monaco. The UK has the Isle of Man. In the USA quite a few wealthy Californians have established homes in Texas (Austin, in particular) for one year in order to establish themselves and residents. There is no state income tax in Texas, you see.
Ether_Snake
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lol
The monarchs and nobles were incredibly "talented" people! They ran away from France too (those that did not join the revolution at least, or died), and France was better off as such.
If rich people flee, you will see innovation.
kame-sennin
Member
They'll go Galt!
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
All I know is that The Economist HATES France.
Joel Was Right
Member
Whats the worst that could happen? Who can't live on 300k?
ConfusingJazz
Member
France has Monaco, Andorra, Switzerland, and Luxembourg.
amitaiwinehouse
Neo Member
My friends take the piss out of me when I talk like this. I'm happy there's a politician who does so also, who is gaining some form of traction.
Nobody. The companies are moving all the jobs overseas to increase their execs bonuses.
empty vessel
Member
Vive Jean-Luc Mélenchon!
kame-sennin
Member
It seems like a lot of people are reacting to the thread title without reading the actual article. What I like about the interview is that he's challenging the absurd mythology that surrounds the ownership class in western democracies. The top 1% are not the most talented and productive individuals. Most of them are in the position that they're in because of inheritance and cronyism. The Bill Gates and Warren Buffets of the world are an exception. The reality is that, even if the wealthiest members of society did leave (they won't), there would still be a wealth of talented people beneath them ready to do their jobs. The key take away from this interview is that Mélenchon is challenging the push for austerity and pointing out that true economic growth is only going to come by focusing on the working class.
It's amazing that even with all this data, fiscal conservatives still try to spread the myth that taxing the wealthy hurts the economy.
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Ask for 100%, "settle" for 70% or more.
The top tax rate was 90% for much of the most productive years in U.S. history. Did the wealthy leave the U.S. for lower tax climates? Did it hurt our prosperity?
We live in a time of historically bargain-basement tax rates, which ultimately shifts the burden to the middle and lower classes.
It's amazing that even with all this data, fiscal conservatives still try to spread the myth that taxing the wealthy hurts the economy.
.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I think it's a great idea. It will never happen, but it's an awesome dream to have as the ultimate goal. The world needs more people willing to go that far.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
To be fair, those high taxes were prior to the U.S. and the Western world shifting to a "true" global economy. In other words competition with other countries that were newly developed or developing.
speculawyer
Member
Stupid idea.
Looking that that US tax rate chart it is pretty easy to see that a 39% top tax rate seems to provide a good result. Below that creates deficits and crazy speculation leading to financial disaster. Much above that and it is bit harsh but OK for a war economy.
Bush really should have raised taxes going into 2 wars but a bunch of spoiled children wanted their war cake and ate it too.
Looking that that US tax rate chart it is pretty easy to see that a 39% top tax rate seems to provide a good result. Below that creates deficits and crazy speculation leading to financial disaster. Much above that and it is bit harsh but OK for a war economy.
Bush really should have raised taxes going into 2 wars but a bunch of spoiled children wanted their war cake and ate it too.
Brian Griffin
Member
I think 100% is a going too far, but this part:
*orgasm*
Sho_Nuff82
Member
I consider myself pretty liberal, but fuck that, seriously.
I don't know about that. The people themselves aren't going anywhere. They're not going off to some bullshit "Gault's Gulch" or whatever. They'll just shift their resources around so they'll be out of reach of the government.
I'm always fascinated by how liberal means something completely different in our (US) culture than everywhere else, since Melenchon's policy proposal is anything but liberal.
Bay Maximus
Banned
C'mon man. I know the super rich have their way in America, but 100% is asinine. I think 70-80% would be more than fair. In any case, I hope this guy gets elected.
In any event, as much as these sort of firebrand socialist rantings may warm the cockles of my red heart, it's obvious that he'd never get such a radical plan turned into a law. But it pushes the Overton window pretty well, so hopefully his message gets more widespread in France.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
What makes us difference than France, Germany, or Sweden?
Ether_Snake
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It's not a stupid idea. People will look back one day and think how ridiculous it was that people would go hungry while others would make millions, even if they tanked their companies or people's savings, when someone more talented, more intelligent, more responsible than them, and who isn't greedy, could do the same job for an acceptable salary.
Most executives occupy their posts only because someone has to occupy those posts, not because they are the most apt to do so. By removing the absurdly excessive salaries associated with their posts, you are more likely to see responsible individuals take their place.
Excessive riches carried by ships and difficult living conditions, as well as corruption, led to the emergence of the golden age of piracy in the early 1700s. It is no different today: large sums of money are attainable by common people for their own personal profits, sums so vast that reason and social responsibilities are throw aside to get a hold of it.
These excessively high salaries are leading to corruption and social neglect for personal profit. This is why becoming so rich must indeed become impossible.
Most executives occupy their posts only because someone has to occupy those posts, not because they are the most apt to do so. By removing the absurdly excessive salaries associated with their posts, you are more likely to see responsible individuals take their place.
Excessive riches carried by ships and difficult living conditions, as well as corruption, led to the emergence of the golden age of piracy in the early 1700s. It is no different today: large sums of money are attainable by common people for their own personal profits, sums so vast that reason and social responsibilities are throw aside to get a hold of it.
These excessively high salaries are leading to corruption and social neglect for personal profit. This is why becoming so rich must indeed become impossible.
Elfforkusu
Member
I like this guy.
kame-sennin
Member
You'll have to clarify your point for me. I understand that developing nations produce industrial disruptions because of low manufacturing costs. But I'm not sure why lower taxes in the U.S. would mitigate the impact of low price imported goods.
Ether_Snake
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He means that if taxes are lower elsewhere, businesses will move there.
I like his views! I really want to see if he won and seriously did that.
I mean I don't understand the point of accumulating vast amounts of money, what for? If you have so much money that you can influence the government then fuck you. People out there are starving or can't find jobs while so many are hoarding wealth that can be used for social programs to help people get back on their feet or to fund better education.
I mean I don't understand the point of accumulating vast amounts of money, what for? If you have so much money that you can influence the government then fuck you. People out there are starving or can't find jobs while so many are hoarding wealth that can be used for social programs to help people get back on their feet or to fund better education.
Flatline
Banned
We need a limit. Super luxury and hoarding are bad for society. Plus noone deserves earning millions every month because noone works that hard and usually the ones who contribute the most to society are being paid much less than CEOs and bankers.
Gotta believe in worker's democracy to be a socialist. But you might be a pretty hard social democrat!
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