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[Calverz]

Finally they see the light. Now make better games.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

If they couldn’t crack it with all the awesome Sega exclusives they had on the original Xbox they won’t crack it now.

Again, Xbox won’t be getting ANY exclusives in the future.

Who is asking for exclusives??

Companies should release games on xbox. And see if they are doing well. If it does, they are on right track.

They should take up challenging markets instead of merely catering to established fanbase.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

Until Sony pony up some extra cash.

 

[Ozriel]

I interpret the news differently; I read this as Sony no longer willing to pay as much for exclusivity as before, as such SquareEnix no longer sees the point in continuing with the deal.

Deals with Sony for FFXVI and FF7 Rebirth were already inked well before Xbox hardware entered critical sales decline...and Square still acknowledges underwhelming financials for the games, so it's clear they weren't exactly making a significant amount of money from the deals.

Doesn't matter if they put everything on Xbox. The install base simply isn't there.

Xbox have shown time and again that they're not really interested in Japanese content.

Self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it? If you don't put your products in a market, eventually that market becomes worse and worse for your content.

Back in the day, people used to suggest PC users wouldn't be interested in Japanese content.

 

[Zathalus]

https://steamdb.info/app/1358700/charts/

Look at the peaks of this release, simultaneous across all platforms. Games that don't have hype (usually platform driven anyway) do even worse. Look I get it, we're going to have a back and forth where you ignore the things I say to defend a platform but if a game has bad word of mouth you're not getting sales regardless.

I’m not defending anything. It’s obvious not having a simultaneous release on multiple platforms kills hype. If FF16 released at the same time on PC as on PS5 the peak user count would have been higher, as it would have benefitted from both the hype and marketing push. I’m not seeing how that’s a controversial thing to say.

 

[supersale88]

Well, the only positive outcome from Square Enix's choosing to go fully multiplatform is that when a title underperforms, despite going multiplatform, they don't have the Sony boogieman as usual to blame.

Also no money from Sony for marketing. Xbox is not going to help them boost sales, but maybe Switch 2 will.

 

[StueyDuck]

Nothing wrong with games being multiplatform, the more the merrier.

But this weird conspiracy narrative that all of a sudden all these games are gonna now have millions of more sales gives me a chuckle.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Who is asking for exclusives??

Companies should release games on xbox. And see if they are doing well. If it does, they are on right track.

They should take up challenging markets instead of merely catering to established fanbase.

You were, when you suggested they crack that market. How else is Xbox supposed to grow?

 

[Three]

I’m not defending anything. It’s obvious not having a simultaneous release on multiple platforms kills hype. If FF16 released at the same time on PC as on PS5 the peak user count would have been higher, as it would have benefitted from both the hype and marketing push. I’m not seeing how that’s a controversial thing to say.

The hype and marketing push was driven by the association to the platform. That's why it had such marketing in the first place. The marketing deal gives it that hype to begin with. With somebody else footing the bill for whatever sales they lose, in marketing instead. I gave you an example of FF:Strangers of Paradise, where Square Enix did a simultaneous release on PS, Windows, and Xbox. They could have marketed it and sold millions everywhere? Not really.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Also no money from Sony for marketing. Xbox is not going to help them boost sales, but maybe Switch 2 will.

No doubt Switch 2 is going to be another 100m+ mega sales success.

But third party games tend not to sell well on Switch.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

You were, when you suggested they crack that market. How else is Xbox supposed to grow?

Growing xbox is not Japanese devs concern. They grow themselves would be more than enough.

By cracking the market means creating a fanbase that enjoys xbox type games.

 

[Zathalus]

The hype and marketing push was driven by the association to the platform. That's why it had such marketing in the first place. The marketing deal gives it that hype to begin with with somebody else footing the bill for whatever sales they lose, in marketing instead. I gave you an example of FF:Strangers of Paradise, where Square Enix did a simultaneous release on PS, Windows, and Xbox. They could have marketed it and sold millions everywhere? Not really.

Plenty of games release on multiple platforms that have marketing deals handled by a specific platform holder. Sony did tons of marketing for Black Myth.

Your example is also shit. Comparing two completely different games with massively differences in budget, scope, hype, and appeal is a completely ridiculous take. They have nothing in common other then the name.

 

[MacReady13]

Important question for us who only rent Xbox games on my amazon official firestick- will the legends at Square release their games day and date on my rental service of choice- the mighty Gamepass? I mean, that is Xbox isn’t it? My tv area is super cluttered with that massive antiquated console (I mean really, who owns consoles anymore? They’re so early 2000’s anyway)… so my firestick is perfect for rentals and I’m just hoping/praying that uncle Phil has given square enough money so I can rent Square games on the best deal in gaming. Can anyone help? TIA.

PS, I’m happy to wait years to rent them on my firestick if they aren’t released day and date on Gamepass. Cheers.

 

[Three]

Plenty of games release on multiple platforms that have marketing deals handled by a specific platform holder. Sony did tons of marketing for Black Myth.

Your example is also shit. Comparing two completely different games with massively differences in budget, scope, hype, and appeal is a completely ridiculous take. They have nothing in common other then the name.

What marketing did Sony do for Wukong? It had no marketing deal and barely any platform marketing at all. My example also isn't shit, it's the same franchise with the same engine and developers. Their marketing/hype/budget sucked though because it wasn't there. Guess why. We're in that back and forth where you just dismiss everything as expected.

 

[Zathalus]

We're in that back and forth where you just dismiss everything as expected.

Oh yeah, not getting that feeling from you at all.

What marketing did Sony do for Black Myth? Really? If you’re not even going to pretend to be honest this this conversation is going nowhere.

 

[Three]

What marketing did Sony do for Black Myth? Really? If you’re not even going to pretend to be honest this this conversation is going nowhere.

Yes really, what marketing? Can you even show it had a marketing deal at all?

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Now, picture the other scenario where SE launched on all platforms simultaneously, sold 3.33m on playstation (same as before) PLUS an additional 4m between PC and Xbox. They would have a LOT more money.

If you think a JRPG sells 3M on PS, but would sell 4M more on PC + Xbox, you must be smoking that good shit... I'd love to smoke that too because it must be amazing

Out of curiosity on this hypothetical 4M sales from PC and Xbox, what's the XBox split? 5%? Just curious since we're in delusional land.

 

[Bloody Crow of Cainhurst]

We're talking about Steam here, a platform that barely managed 23k max ccu for Silent Hill 2 after talking a whole lot of shit for years how lucrative their platform is. These guys would rather wait for a FitGirl repack than spend a single dollar, but stay posting about how consoles are in trouble.

 

[Cakeboxer]

What did Sony pay them for the exclusivity that they think the 300 Xbox sales are worth more? Knack 2 t-shirts and Concord for all employees?

 

[Setsuna Mudou]

Yes really, what marketing? Can you even show it had a marketing deal at all?

He must be referring to the same marketing deal Baldur's Gate 3 had on playstation... the fact the game couldn't run on a series potato and Xbox forced parity meant it couldn't be released at all in the platform until fuck knows when

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

What did Sony pay them for the exclusivity that they think the 300 Xbox sales are worth more? Knack 2 t-shirts and Concord for all employees?

Well, we are going to find out aren't we? It is set in stone, so all we can do is to watch the traincrash.
I am now just curious how the math works out. Square Enix games are not that cutting edge so I don't think there is any issue with running Series S, at least i don't think Xbox is THAT unlucky.

 

[Zathalus]

Yes really, what marketing? Can you even show it had a marketing deal at all?

So there were no trailers done by Sony for the game? PS5 sales didn’t surge in China due to the game with the Chinese Sony store being covered in Black Myth marketing material?

It is indeed possible to heavily market a game for your platform with it still being a multiplatform release. Sony and Xbox do it all the time. Pretending that only exclusives can benefit from it is nonsense.

 

[Three]

So there were no trailers done by Sony for the game? PS5 sales didn’t surge in China due to the game with the Chinese Sony store being covered in Black Myth marketing material?

It is indeed possible to heavily market a game for your platform with it still being a multiplatform release. Sony and Xbox do it all the time. Pretending that only exclusives can benefit from it is nonsense.

If you think that PS5 sales surging in China is a marketing deal or the chinese PS store trying to get sales from a popular Chinese game is, then I can't help you.

We're talking about the platform holder offering marketing budget/support for a game not a popular game boosting sales of a platform in a region. Wukong had no marketing deal with PS.

 

[Ozriel]

If they couldn’t crack it with all the awesome Sega exclusives they had on the original Xbox they won’t crack it now.

Again, Xbox won’t be getting ANY exclusives in the future.

Where did you read 'Xbox exclusives from Square Enix' in that OP?

But this weird conspiracy narrative that all of a sudden all these games are gonna now have millions of more sales gives me a chuckle.

Xbox won’t add much.
But put FF7R part 3 on Switch 2 and PC at launch and it’ll sell millions more.

 

[Zathalus]

If you think that PS5 sales surging in China is a marketing deal or the chinese PS store trying to get sales from a popular Chinese game is, then I can't help you.

We're talking about the platform holder offering marketing budget/support for a game not a popular game boosting sales of a platform in a region. Wukong had no marketing deal with PS.

I was talking about general marketing. It’s perfectly possible for a game that is on multiple platforms to benefit from platform targeted marketing. Another recent game that had this was Hogwarts Legacy, that game was heavily promoted by Sony and still saw great success on PC thanks to the hype generated by the game. That almost certainly had a paid marketing deal as well, considering the exclusive content.

 

[squidilix]

And then Square realize that focusing on multi-console and support at the same time will reduce the creativity and technique of their game. And extend the development time to “optimize”

Capcom release on all plateform with their own engine and we can see that's run like a shit (Dragon's Dogma 2, Monster Hunter Wilds)

And now that, people asking "pls Final Fantasy on Switch and Series S" and we gonna see Final Fantasy AAA running worse than FF7 Remake and FF16. (People forget how mess FF15 it is at his time... frame pacing, jaggies mess, 900p, crash.... 2 years for maintening this game alive)

But hey... it's in all plateform

If Final Fantasy is on a hard way for selling, that's not because exclusivity but because problem identity (and because, is an IP for boomer, zoomer prefer weaboo shit). And because Square Enix stupidly want to sell a ton for one major FF like Witcher 3

 

[DJ12]

Square’s finally realizing that Sony and Epic’s timed exclusivity checks aren’t worth it.

Lol

More like Sony realised Xbox is dead so there's no need to fund square to the tune of millions for exclusivity.

 

[Esppiral]

Square enix has been alienating the Xbox users for more than a decade now and many have already played their games on the platforms they have been released, so releasing those same games on Xbox years later and at full price... Well I don't know what are they expecting....

 

[FStubbs]

For low budget titles with fraction of Forspoken/Final Fantasy budgets it's certainly not bad strategy for SE and sometimes it could be great. The main problem lies on the AA and AAA budget games that failed to deliver.

Successful A and AA games with launch exclusive on Switch

1. Triangle Strategy sold - 1m on Switch
2. Dragon Quest Monster - 1m on Switch
3. Octopath traveller - 2.5m on Switch and flopped hard on steam(6k CCU)
4. Bravely Default 2 - 1m on Switch
5. Live Alive - 500k on Switch

Certified flopped with no sales PR from SE for AA and AAA budget games with multiplatforms/Exclusive launch

1. Forspoken - Studio was closed down after abysmal sales result
2. Star Ocean the devine force - No sales PR and only sold 56k in Japan.
3. Valkyrie Elysium - No sales PR and only sold 62k in Japan
4. Visions of mana - Flopped spectacularly after budget increased
5. Foamstar - Flopped
6. Babylon's fall - Flopped
7. Dragon Quest infinite strash - flopped

SE emphasize "Major AAA titles" when they were announcing multiplat strategy.

"For HD titles, the Group will aggressively pursue a multiplatform strategy that includes Nintendo platforms, PlayStation, Xbox, and PCs. Especially, in regards to major franchises and AAA titles including catalog titles"

Lackluster sales of Forspoken and Final fantasy games forced SE to adopt a new strategy.

I mean, what this also potentially says is that 1-6 needed to be on Switch.

 

[PatientGamer]

If I keep repeating this nonsense it will become true.

Self-fulfilling prophecy, isn't it? If you don't put your products in a market, eventually that market becomes worse and worse for your content.

Can we stop with this stupid mantra?

Xbox has been in market since 2001; 23 years and nothing to show for it in Japan & Asia

The people simply don't want what Xbox has to offer. Has always been that way with them.

Count your losses and invest it in platforms where the people are.

 

[cireza]

Count your losses and invest it in platforms where the people are.

At least you understand why they are going to release on PC and Xbox day-one. There is a huge player base there. Big enough that exclusive Sony money alone cannot compete it seems.

 

[Goalus]

Xbox has been in market since 2001; 23 years and nothing to show for it in Japan & Asia

The people simply don't want what Xbox has to offer. Has always been that way with them.

Count your losses and invest it in platforms where the people are.

Sounds like something only an overly impatient person would say.

 

[PatientGamer]

At least you understand why they are going to release on PC and Xbox day-one. There is a huge player base there. Big enough that exclusive Sony money alone cannot compete it seems.

Yups, I agree they should release their games on PC too. But SE's problem is far bigger than the platforms they release on, either gamers in general are fatigued with their content and/or their games just aren't as appealing as they used to be.

Sounds like something only an overly impatient person would say.

My username relates to my backlog

 

[Clear]

This old article explains the reasoning well:

Former Square Enix exec on why Final Fantasy sales don’t meet expectations and chances of recouping insane AAA budgets | Game World Observer

Former Square Enix executive Jacob Navok has shared his thoughts on less-than-expected sales of the latest Final Fantasy games. He also tried to explain why people mistakenly think that the Japanese publisher is simply setting unrealistic goals for its products.

gameworldobserver.com

In short, money hats are recouped. It's not just free money on top of what you earn.

To work through a simplified example:
Sony: Here's 200m for 1 year of playstation exclusitivity
SE: Sure!
(game proceeds to sell 3.33 m copies over a year, earning 200m)
SE: Hurray! With Sony's moneyhat and the new revenue, we now have 400m!
Sony: Actually, I get 200m back. I recoup my investment!
SE: :O
(SE & Sony now both have 200m)
(Game finally launches on Xbox and Steam, but hype and sales are considerably decreased)

Now, picture the other scenario where SE launched on all platforms simultaneously, sold 3.33m on playstation (same as before) PLUS an additional 4m between PC and Xbox. They would have a LOT more money.

Since moneyhats are recouped, you should take it only if you can't fund development yourself or if you think the game would sell less than the money hat (case of Alan Wake 2 on Epic). But if your game will sell gangbusters and will exceed the moneyhat, then there's basically no reason to take it.

The problem with the logic in the article is the assumption that the cost of simultaneous development & launch, minus exclusivity premiums and marketing consideration, is worth less in the long term, than the additional revenue bump over the initial launch window from the extra platform(s).

Quite a mouthful, but the reality boils down to those extra SKU's are not free from cost and risk, and in the long-term I'm still yet to see a convincing argument as to why in the long-term things shouldn't mostly even out. It strikes me as mostly a matter of optics.

More day-and-date on PC I can see a case for, but since when has Sony paid for total exclusivity? Its usually explicitly *console* exclusivity which makes sense for them as it gets them out from under the self-cannibalization of MS' GamePass strategy.

Switch2 is the platform with the highest potential upside, but is the "odd man out" in terms of technology, and Nintendo's market is pretty specific in its tastes.

At the end of the day SE is not a particularly well-run business. It just isn't. In recent years they've bankrolled a bunch of flops that would have flopped just as hard regardless of how many platforms they released on.

 

[poppabk]

So you're disagreeing with him that FF16 had bad word of mouth then. He's saying something else.

FF16 had pretty good word of mouth during the launch window. 6 months later - not so much. Even something like GoW:Ragnarok which launched with 94% metacritic, hype through the roof, amazing word of mouth - by the time the PC launch came around the overall feelings around here were mixed.

 

[ArtHands]

Until Sony pony up some extra cash.

Wait for Sony to recoup the losses from Concord first

 

[Fabieter]

Well, the only positive outcome from Square Enix's choosing to go fully multiplatform is that when a title underperforms, despite going multiplatform, they don't have the Sony boogieman as usual to blame.

PC day one is important. Xbox day one is a round difference for Japanese games.

 

[mayham2199]

We're talking about Steam here, a platform that barely managed 23k max ccu for Silent Hill 2 after talking a whole lot of shit for years how lucrative their platform is. These guys would rather wait for a FitGirl repack than spend a single dollar, but stay posting about how consoles are in trouble.

Honestly I think it’s hit and miss. Yes sometimes pc will really help sometimes it won’t. Sometimes not going multiplat is fine and makes sense sometimes it doesn’t. Each company has to decide this for themselves. Hell some companies don’t even have the resources to focus on so many eco systems. Maybe this will work out for square but even tomb raider which went multiplat and did timed exclusive didn’t satisfy them so who knows.

 

[Fabieter]

Who is asking for exclusives??

Companies should release games on xbox. And see if they are doing well. If it does, they are on right track.

They should take up challenging markets instead of merely catering to established fanbase.

As long as they are still doing japan focused games than i wouldn't mind them releasing the games on freaking calculators. But it's important to stay away from western game design to cater to a audience who might not even interested regardless.

 

[Horseganador]

Releasing the games at the same time on PS5 and PC makes sense, on Xbox it's a waste of money to sell 4 copies.

 

[skit_data]

I'd be very surprised if they all of a sudden consider the sales to be "above expectations" after this. Square Enix simply doesn't seem to have a good sense of how their games will perform and I doubt that will suddenly improve after making these changes.

 

[Mr Moose]

Where did you read 'Xbox exclusives from Square Enix' in that OP?



Xbox won’t add much.
But put FF7R part 3 on Switch 2 and PC at launch and it’ll sell millions more.

Isn't Switch 2 meant to be PS4 levels of power? That'll be interesting to see with part 3.

 

[Bloody Crow of Cainhurst]

If releasing simultaneously on PC is such a great idea then explain Concord??? Checkmate, chuds

 

[West Texas CEO]

D Days like these... , I have no problem playing square enix games on Xbox.
Do you?

 

[spons]

Yeah dude, until Sony coughs up an exorbitant check to get an exclusive. Words words words, just release the games already.

 

[Days like these...]

Has Square shot itself in the foot with this new strategy?

 

[KungFucius]

About time, I wish I didn't need to play that games on PS5 instead of PC, though if I waited I might have actually skipped FFXVI and not wasted 40 hours.

 

[Neofire]

Square Enix confirms more Xbox support.......it's not going to move the needle at all and then SE will try to come up with another excuse why they aren't selling 20 million copies for each title.

 

[LMJ]

Final Fantasy brand relevance has plummeted after taking exclusive deals from Sony PlayStation.

FF XV - 10m(PS4/XB1/PC)
FF 7 Remake - 7m(PS4/PS5/PC)
FF XVI - 3.5m(PS5/PC)
FF 7 Rebirth - 2.5m(PS5)

While other brands have increased their popularity thanked to the multiplat strategy.

Sekiro - 10m
Elden Rings - 25m
Monster Hunter Rise - 16m
Monster Hunter Sunbreak - 8m
Monster Hunter iceborne - 14m
Monster Hunter World - 22m
Resident Evil 2R - 14m
Resident Evil 7 - 14m
Resident Evil 8 - 10m
Resident Evil 3R - 9m
Resident Evil 4R - 8m
Dragon Ball Fighters Z - 10m
Dragon Ball kakarot - 8m
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 - 10m

Many of these in fact nearly all were before MS current issue of Hardware sales, like it or not GamePass is a double edged sword, they ARE growing as a Publisher, but the day one mentality kills game sales as was said in their own court hearing

Xbox isn't the powerhouse it once was, whether or not they were in first they WERE competition as was the big N, they can't make that claim right now, so who knows how this pans out, I think this SE statement is more true for the switch successor than whatever Xbox has out right now

 

[Fabieter]

Final Fantasy brand relevance has plummeted after taking exclusive deals from Sony PlayStation.

FF XV - 10m(PS4/XB1/PC)
FF 7 Remake - 7m(PS4/PS5/PC)
FF XVI - 3.5m(PS5/PC)
FF 7 Rebirth - 2.5m(PS5)

While other brands have increased their popularity thanked to the multiplat strategy.

Sekiro - 10m
Elden Rings - 25m
Monster Hunter Rise - 16m
Monster Hunter Sunbreak - 8m
Monster Hunter iceborne - 14m
Monster Hunter World - 22m
Resident Evil 2R - 14m
Resident Evil 7 - 14m
Resident Evil 8 - 10m
Resident Evil 3R - 9m
Resident Evil 4R - 8m
Dragon Ball Fighters Z - 10m
Dragon Ball kakarot - 8m
Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 - 10m

The multiplatform strategy should contain switch and pc foremost. Anyone thinking Xbox is making a meaningful difference is delusional.