GAF, we need to start a campaign for no used games/no DRM on the Xbox One

I feel lonely that I am the only person in the world to have retweeted that tweet, where are MS fanboys out there? 100% obliterated? :P

Phil Spencer is the "yosp" of Microsoft, he decides all first party publishing. Don Mattrick is more powerful of course, because he is Phil's boss. If you are able to send magic fairies into Don's ear it would be most effective, but unfortunately magic fairies are hard to come by.

There are other people like Boyd Multerer that appeared on the architecture panel that are actually the ones making the system architecture and doing the heavy lifting - watch the panel with Major Nelson to see those guys talk, they are the real deal...

Is used games/DRM really the biggest deal? If you buy most of your games it is easily the least worrying thing to me, some of the other topics thrown around bother me a lot more personally...

I actually DID buy lots of used games, and some of them were games that are really hard to find / out of print, so I totally understand, I just personally feel more passionate about having them show support for indies and smaller devs (XBLA size dev studios)
 
Toma said:
You are reading it wrong. The games will still have a fee but MS is dictating it and the used game shop will pay it.
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Where does it say that? This gives me the impression that you can lend games to friends and they don't have to pay to play.
 
godelsmetric said:
Hey I was just about to post this. You'd think it would be in the best interests of everyone tweeting Sony to also tweet Microsoft, but when push comes to shove in this situation you see that it's really nothing to do with civil liberties and everything to do with Console Warz.
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If Microsoft get out of gaming industry, would let SONY without any console direct competition, and it's bad for everyone.
 
XAL said:
I posted this in the other thread, I'm sure it won't dissuade anyone. But let's get real.

Resellers like Gamestop are getting all of the revenue generated from the re-sale of games, sometimes they sell the same game multiple times.

The people that make the game are getting shafted because their game is being purchased many times over, but none of the money is going to them.

I'm certain the publishers and developers have been heavily lobbying Sony and MS for a very long time for a solution that would give them a cut of that missing revenue - because resellers will not give out money from the resells willingly. Given how surprised gamestop was at the word of DRM, I'm guessing any kind of negotiation with resellers for a cut of the revenue did not go anywhere.

One of a few things could happen:
1. The fee for activating a used game is so high that buying a used game makes no sense.
2. The fee for activating a used game is low (ie. 5-10bucks), which would force resellers to lower their resell price to adjust for the online activation fee.
3. The threat of options 1 and 2 force resellers to give a % of revenue generated from preowned titles to publishers/developers.

Given how MS and Sony's stance on DRM for next gen is completely vague at this time, I would have to gather that they are angling for option 3 - but if it came to it, would go with option 2.

Option 3 is the only scenario where people don't have to pay authentication fees.

If you think there is an option 4: we campaign and they don't do any of it, you will be disappointed.
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. Insightful post and pretty much I agree this is all a negotiation with gamestop to let them realize they need to give up a few bucks and not keep it all to themselves when the developed of the games are often losing money
 
This is just a rumor. In the case of no internet connection the Xbox One will function just like the 360. To play a game off the hard-drive you will need to have the disc in the drive to authenticate it.

EDIT: What i typed is a rumor, not what you typed.
statham said:
That needs to be true, the 24 hour thing should only be if you don't want to change discs with internet down.
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. Exactly! This is all solved so easily and they really have not said how it will work people need to calm down and stop assuming off of half ass comments and journalist assumptions and wait to see that this is true
 
Klocker said:
Exactly! This is all solved so easily and they really have not said how it will work people need to calm down and stop assuming off of half ass comments and journalist assumptions and wait to see that this is true
Click to expand...

Why? If we don't want them to do this stuff, shouldn't we get our voices heard?

Or are you expecting Microsoft to just abandon their plan willy-nilly, even without backlash from outspoken fans, just out of the goodness of their hearts?
 
Klocker said:
This is just a rumor. In the case of no internet connection the Xbox One will function just like the 360. To play a game off the hard-drive you will need to have the disc in the drive to authenticate it.

EDIT: What i typed is a rumor, not what you typed.

. Exactly! This is all solved so easily and they really have not said how it will work people need to calm down and stop assuming off of half ass comments and journalist assumptions and wait to see that this is true
Click to expand...

You could have a game activated on one console, then insert that disc into a system that's offline, which would then allow two people to be playing the same copy of the game at once. The only way around this I see is if they still require you to be online when you first put the game into the system. Then, as long as the disc is in the system,you don't need to be connected to the Internet.

Or they could do away with the ability to play without the disc in the system, and thus have no reason to require an internet connection. If you don't want to swap discs, just download the game instead. Of course, this would negatively affect people with download limits who don't want to swap discs.
 
Klocker said:
This is just a rumor. In the case of no internet connection the Xbox One will function just like the 360. To play a game off the hard-drive you will need to have the disc in the drive to authenticate it.

EDIT: What i typed is a rumor, not what you typed.

. Exactly! This is all solved so easily and they really have not said how it will work people need to calm down and stop assuming off of half ass comments and journalist assumptions and wait to see that this is true
Click to expand...


If they haven't said anything how do you know what their solution is.

People making a fuss isn't going to harm anybody.
 
XAL said:
I posted this in the other thread, I'm sure it won't dissuade anyone. But let's get real.

Resellers like Gamestop are getting all of the revenue generated from the re-sale of games, sometimes they sell the same game multiple times.

The people that make the game are getting shafted because their game is being purchased many times over, but none of the money is going to them.

I'm certain the publishers and developers have been heavily lobbying Sony and MS for a very long time for a solution that would give them a cut of that missing revenue - because resellers will not give out money from the resells willingly. Given how surprised gamestop was at the word of DRM, I'm guessing any kind of negotiation with resellers for a cut of the revenue did not go anywhere.

One of a few things could happen:
1. The fee for activating a used game is so high that buying a used game makes no sense.
2. The fee for activating a used game is low (ie. 5-10bucks), which would force resellers to lower their resell price to adjust for the online activation fee.
3. The threat of options 1 and 2 force resellers to give a % of revenue generated from preowned titles to publishers/developers.

Given how MS and Sony's stance on DRM for next gen is completely vague at this time, I would have to gather that they are angling for option 3 - but if it came to it, would go with option 2.

Option 3 is the only scenario where people don't have to pay authentication fees.

If you think there is an option 4: we campaign and they don't do any of it, you will be disappointed.
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Gamestop and Gamefly/redbox should cut a deal like Blockbuster video did

Viacom conglomerate then owned Blockbuster, personally pioneered a new revenue-sharing arrangement for video in the mid-1990s. Blockbuster obtained videos for little cost and kept a 60 percent rental fee, paying the other 40 percent to the studio, and reporting rental information through Rentrak. What Blockbuster got out of the deal, besides a lower initial price, was that movies were not available for sale during an initial release period, at least not at an affordable price point – customers either had to rent, wait, or buy the film on tape at the much higher Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price targeted at other rental chains and film enthusiasts, at that time then between $70–100 before the end of the initial release period.
Click to expand...
 
Klocker said:
This is just a rumor. In the case of no internet connection the Xbox One will function just like the 360. To play a game off the hard-drive you will need to have the disc in the drive to authenticate it.

EDIT: What i typed is a rumor, not what you typed.

. Exactly! This is all solved so easily and they really have not said how it will work people need to calm down and stop assuming off of half ass comments and journalist assumptions and wait to see that this is true
Click to expand...

wasn't it Phil Harrison from MS who said 24 hour?
 
hydrophilic attack said:
Why? If we don't want them to do this stuff, shouldn't we get our voices heard?

Or are you expecting Microsoft to just abandon their plan willy-nilly, even without backlash from outspoken fans, just out of the goodness of their hearts?
Click to expand...

I still find some of the claims a little over the top, we really have not even heard their plan yet and we don't know if they are planning anything as unfriendly as what's being reported especially since the rumors are all over the place.


but in case they are you might be right
 
Klocker said:
.

. Exactly! This is all solved so easily and they really have not said how it will work people need to calm down and stop assuming off of half ass comments and journalist assumptions and wait to see that this is true
Click to expand...

If it wasn't true, do you not reckon that MS would have clarified that by now? This is worldwide news being reported everywhere. It's probably costing them sales as we speak. Why not put that fire out asap? Because it's true. And because they don't give a shit about hardcore gamers. So what if they lose a few million players? Probably worth it for them in the long run.

Seriously, fuck this company. You should all have seen what they were like with the way they tried to swindle you with that 1 year guarantee during the rrod fiasco.
 
Syphon Filter said:
wasn't it Phil Harrison from MS who said 24 hour?
Click to expand...

yes he said 24 hour but even he back tracked... but they also said there would be "some offline game usage" they have just not identified it yet.

so we can hope that it would include disk in tray you can play offline if no internet... would be the easiest solution so why wouldn't they allow?

their biggest mistake was opening their mouths at all until they were ready to tell us everything.
 
King_Moc said:
If it wasn't true, do you not reckon that MS would have clarified that by now? This is worldwide news being reported everywhere. It's probably costing them sales as we speak. Why not put that fire out asap?....

... .
Click to expand...

They can not be losing sales with a product that is not released yet, as things change everyday... and if I were in charge I would not over react and putout some half=ass press release until ALL the ducks were in a row and they had all the deals done. They already said stupid shit by starting to talk about it without knowing all the facts

I still think they are leveraging Gamestop for a deal and this is negotiating.

They will come out soon enough with a full accounting of their plan to be as friendly as possible while still hitting their goals.
 
godelsmetric said:
Hey I was just about to post this. You'd think it would be in the best interests of everyone tweeting Sony to also tweet Microsoft, but when push comes to shove in this situation you see that it's really nothing to do with civil liberties and everything to do with Console Warz.
Click to expand...

Exactly why I posted what I posted super early in this thread.
 
ascii42 said:
You could have a game activated on one console, then insert that disc into a system that's offline, which would then allow two people to be playing the same copy of the game at once. The only way around this I see is if they still require you to be online when you first put the game into the system. Then, as long as the disc is in the system,you don't need to be connected to the Internet.

Or they could do away with the ability to play without the disc in the system, and thus have no reason to require an internet connection. If you don't want to swap discs, just download the game instead. Of course, this would negatively affect people with download limits who don't want to swap discs.
Click to expand...

ah yes that's true,,, forgot about the one disc two people play... yes disc-less gameplay is a must in their plan (and mine but as you said I'm ok with DD but some are not)

so back to original... this is all so people can not game share a disc for free and not pay for the game.... that's what some people don't grasp... there is no easy solution moving forward digitally and keeping everyone happy while we are still tied to discs without insisting on an occasional internet check to be sure you are not cheating the system

Why are people so outraged that someone wants to protect their product they are selling form being misused/stolen by checking in with the internet for a minute to be sure they own the game?
 
Before ppl get there pitchforks,


it would be stupid to do so without knowing the full facts and without knowing what Sony might do.


If MS play ball with publishers and Sony dont, which platform holder do you think the publishers will prefer? I doubt Sony would want to piss off the life source of there console.
 
Impeccable said:
This unfortunately seems like a lost cause from everything we know. We know Sony is wavering.
Click to expand...


If Sony are smart they ll see the back last of the Xbox one and react accordingly but I think its to late now . I think they ll reveal there DRM and used games strategy as late as possible if its bad news. The console is out in 6 months I'm sure they've had a road map of everything to do with the console. EA haven't scrapped there online passes for nothing .
 
theviolenthero said:
This is just a rumor. In the case of no internet connection the Xbox One will function just like the 360. To play a game off the hard-drive you will need to have the disc in the drive to authenticate it.

EDIT: What i typed is a rumor, not what you typed.
Click to expand...

I'm fine with using the disc as authentication. That is something that is under my control. I don't like it when control over when and where I can play my game is decided by somebody else.
 
Worth a shot. I doubt MS will drop the stuff completely but they could loosen restrictions and let us turn off Kinect.
 
lololol, so you guys saw the PS thread and are jumping on board huh. Man, you just don't get it. hahahaha, this is great, thank you for making my day OP, always nice to wake up with a laugh.
 
RayMaker said:
Before ppl get there pitchforks,


it would be stupid to do so without knowing the full facts and without knowing what Sony might do.


If MS play ball with publishers and Sony dont, which platform holder do you think the publishers will prefer? I doubt Sony would want to piss off the life source of there console.
Click to expand...

Yeah I brought this up elsewhere too. Having one system do one thing and another do the opposite would cause a major rift in devs and publishers one way or the other. I can either see both going DRM or neither.
And if Sony have the "It's up to the publisher" thing I think a lo of publishers will indeed block the used games. It's financially their best option
 
Also before people rail on me like in the PS4 thread.

Vashu said:
Do you see the music industry going after the yard-sale of an old record? Do you see the movie industry take on consumers who buy a movie 2nd hand? Do you have to pay a company if you trade/buy an old stamp?

No, but because this is the game industry, it's suddenly okay?

What would you do if you were an art-fan and everytime you wanted to see just the Mona Lisa you have buy a pass? (not counting the usual museum fare to see everything inside.)
Click to expand...

PaNaMa said:
I know where you're going man, but there's a percentage of consumers in the world who do not buy furtinture, cars, music, golf clubs, hell *anything* day 1 full price. A lot of people buy stuff used, and not from the original maker. I know it's not apples to apples 100%, but it's a slipperly slope. They way it works for most things is you buy something, you own it. From there, you can sell it. I'm sure developers would love to get double and triple dipping on the used sales, but it doesn't mean they should.
Click to expand...

You're 100% correct, and I'm not defending them.

Nintendo for instance was even musing about wanting to collect revenue from youtubers and streamers playing their games online, because they feel that the revenue being generated is a result of their product - therefore they are entitled to the monies. They probably want to take the "this movie/film shall not be used in public events where money is made" type of bullshit.

You can't expect these people to be fair or even use common sense. When money is concerned, their methods of acquiring more get more and more aggressive/intrusive. This whole DRM nonsense is a result of that - they even take it to extremes (ie, always online).

I buy the game, I can do what I want with it. It's mine, if I want to sell it I should be able to. If I want to give it away to my friend for free I should be able to.

But they don't see it that way, they see it as "that's our intellectual property and we control it, if you make money off of it - we deserve a cut because that's our intellectual property and you wouldn't be making money off of it if we didn't make it".

It's all kind of disheartening.

*************************
This is a great video to watch:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7370-When-The-Starscreams-Kill-Used-Games
 
Klocker said:
yes he said 24 hour but even he back tracked... but they also said there would be "some offline game usage" they have just not identified it yet.

so we can hope that it would include disk in tray you can play offline if no internet... would be the easiest solution so why wouldn't they allow?

their biggest mistake was opening their mouths at all until they were ready to tell us everything.
Click to expand...

He is right, offline but only for 24 hours like he said. He let it slip and said it too early.
 
RoboPlato said:
Worth a shot. I doubt MS will drop the stuff completely but they could loosen restrictions and let us turn off Kinect.
Click to expand...

You can turn off the camera. And Microsoft said they are still dealing with the used game stuff, that's why everyone says something different. Thankfully they already answer a tweet, we just have to wait. And if they indeed have a draconian system, then don't buy the console is a simple as that.
 
Are you also going to ask for the death of Kinect and a serious focus on games? Let it go, Xbox One is a done deal and they are not going to backtrack on it.
 
FlyFaster said:
lololol, so you guys saw the PS thread and are jumping on board huh. Man, you just don't get it. hahahaha, this is great, thank you for making my day OP, always nice to wake up with a laugh.
Click to expand...

Don't get what, exactly? MS fans can also be anti-DRM you know. Jesus.
 
Klocker said:
how else do you expect to be able to play without having to deal with discs in the machine and not have people sharing the same disc to play in 100 differrnt machines under one purchase price?
Click to expand...
I don't expect to play a game without a disc. I never asked for that.
 
Chabbs0 said:
But that's only for if you want it installed on both.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/24/4362680/xbox-one-games-will-require-regular-authentication-checks-used-games

You can play your game on any other xbox one for free, just like normal.
Click to expand...
Your link has nothing to do with what you're saying, and also you're wrong. There's no way to play the game without installing it and a friend can't play my disc on his system on his account without paying. This is based on the information MS gave us (source) before they backtracked and said their policy is not final.
 
Honestly guys the best thing to deal with something like this, in my opinion, is to protest by not purchasing any hardware or software relating to Xbox One.

The high ranked people at Microsoft will probably dismiss the current outrage as the few, not the many and can tweet all day if they wish. That's their attitude, they want the money, so don't give them it.
 
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