Support NeoGAF

[Vic]

September 28, 2012 | By Christian Nutt

PlayStation Vita isn't exactly the success story that Sony would like it to be. Sales of the handheld are lagging worldwide, and many third party game makers aren't willing to invest in a platform that has a modest install base. Add a prohibitive $300-$350 price tag, and you have the ingredients for a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.

Sony Worldwide Studios president Shuhei Yoshida admitted he's disappointed by the lack of third party support for the handheld, but he told Gamasutra he's ready to show developers that the Vita is the right hardware for making games.

When asked if he believes that third parties are missing out on an opportunity by not supporting the PlayStation Vita, Yoshida answered, "I totally believe so."

"PS Vita is the best hardware to bring a very immersive game experience onto portable," he said.

Developer apprehension

Of course, being one of PlayStation's top executives, his opinion is just slightly biased. But he openly admitted that developer apprehension towards the Vita was unexpected. "One thing that was surprising and disappointing to us was the number of third parties to come out [in support] after launch.

"...In retrospect, there are so many options for publishers now that we cannot take it for granted that our new platform would be supported by third parties, like [it would've been] many years ago."

Sony, then, was somehow caught with its pants down, and though Yoshida said the company went on extensive developer outreach prior to Vita's release, it apparently wasn't able to get publishers to commit to the platform.

Mobile and social games have also eaten into the Vita's potential, he said. "There are limited resources that third party publishers have, and they have to diversify into new areas constantly; that's a challenge to get the support that we want.

"We've been working harder with our third party relations department to secure more content for PS Vita," he said. "...We are confident that we have the right hardware platform that we have with PS Vita."

Despite that confidence in the hardware, admitted the Vita still hasn't quite found its footing in the marketplace.

Defining Vita

Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is." He said Sony needs to show third parties what Vita players buy, and what kind of games work best on the platform. At that point, Sony will be able to entice more developers to support the handheld.

"As we can expand our install base and articulate what works really well on the platform as compared to others, it will get easier for us to be able get support from third parties," he added.

And while Worldwide Studios, which encompasses all of the company's first party development teams, such as Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica, doesn't do direct developer outreach in most cases, he says that it plays an important role in getting third parties interested in the platform.

"We create our content, and that can be used to evangelize some functionalities of the platforms for third party purposes."

Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...s_biggest_challenge_Convincing_developers.php

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is."

This is typically something you should try to do before launching a platform. I love my Vita, but no one can really give a solid explanation of why it exists, and I have a very hard time telling someone why they should be interested.

 

[AgentChris]

Gotta convince their own devs first...

 

[tamaster92]

See he has all the right ideas just has to actually follow through! Don't let this beautiful machine die

 

[lordfroakie]

Gotta convince their own devs first...

Before they get shutdown?

 

[Dead Prince]

Vita is a PORTable gaming system.

 

[To Far Away Times]

I pretty sure that Sony lucked into their success with the PS1 and, by extension, the PS2. They were at the right place at the right time with the right price. But they really do need a solid gameplan going forward. A strong Sony makes for a better gaming industry.

 

[HamPster PamPster]

Gotta convince their own devs first...

The last three studios Sony closed made a Vita game as their last game. This trend probably isn't lost on the rest of Sony's studios

 

[AranhaHunter]

They either need to relaunch with a tablet (8 inches/detachable pad a la wikipad) and a phone (slide out, psp go format) that gets yearly iterations in order to keep up with the smartphone/tablet market or complete scrap it and let the vita die.

 

[Z3M0G]

"...In retrospect, there are so many options for publishers now that we cannot take it for granted that our new platform would be supported by third parties, like [it would've been] many years ago."

Ding Ding Ding

 

[Kusagari]

They will never define what PS Vita actually is, so I guess it will never be successful.

Thanks for admitting it Sony.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

That they were surprised at the lack of support in an age of so many choices which are friendlier to the developers themselves says a lot about how much they did not understand the market they're trying to pitch to.

 

[Culex]

The system is deader than dead, world wide. It's a zombie system selling statistical noise at this point... Which is a damn shame for such a beautiful piece of hardware!

 

[To Far Away Times]

I guess they thought their platforms would get support no matter what. 'Cuz Sony, or something.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

I pretty sure that Sony lucked into their success with the PS1 and, by extension, the PS2. They were at the right place at the right time with the right price. But they really do need a solid gameplan going forward.

I don't think it was luck, they just had the benefit of Nintendo's policies being horrible for third parties, and they recognized that they could build some solid relationships as a result. The environment has changed and third parties have a lot of power they didn't before because the market has expanded to other platforms, so Sony's biggest strength is not as impactful as it once was.

They have done a great job supporting PS3 with their own first-party developers, but they have refused to give the same consistent support to Vita, which it needs to do in order to draw attention to the platform. They need to devote more resources to making compelling exclusive content.

 

[Schobeleth]

There are tons of games coming... I don't understand why people keep worrying, I guess because of the sales not picking up as much as they hoped? A price cut will shift a few million more units, but that probably won't happen until next E3.

 

[border]

I pretty sure that Sony lucked into their success with the PS1 and, by extension, the PS2.

Nobody else has won 2 generations in a row as decisively as they did with PS1 and PS2. You'd be crazy to say it was luck when very clear design choices for those systems ended up being a huge advantage.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Nobody else has won 2 generations in a row as decisively as they did with PS1 and PS2. You'd be crazy to say it was luck when very clear design choices for those systems ended up being a huge advantage.

Nintendo basically shot themselves in the foot by going with the cartridge format and then charging ridiculous royalties and sky high production costs for the cartridges.

Saturn was always pretty much out of the picture. A completely botched launch and high price meant that it never really had a chance.

All the other console manufacturers during the beginning of the 32 bit era where pretty much non-contenders.

Sony was in the right place to scoop up third party studios. Granted, they were very flexible and welcoming for third parties, but still. Had Nintendo gone with the CD format, there likely never would have been a PS2.

 

[Zaventem]

I don't own a vita but it's a really great machine going by what i've read seen.
You know Nintendo fans are happy it's a failing but i would like to see what will become of the system.

 

[Vic]

Nobody else has won 2 generations in a row as decisively as they did with PS1 and PS2. You'd be crazy to say it was luck when very clear design choices for those systems ended up being a huge advantage.

But the reason why the PS1 and PS2 succeeded is directly related to the reason why the Vita is performing as it does. To entirely rely on third-party like Sony does is a double-edged sword.

 

[electroplankton]

The problwm is that, since third parties have really nothing relevant in the pipeline for Vita (and after E3 and TGS this is pretty clear to anyone), even if they start to develop something now, we won't see it until at least a year and a half; that means that Vita has to survive until 2014 with a poor lineup in sales potential terms.

 

[metalslimer]

I pretty sure that Sony lucked into their success with the PS1 and, by extension, the PS2. They were at the right place at the right time with the right price. But they really do need a solid gameplan going forward. A strong Sony makes for a better gaming industry.

No, they pretty much just treated 3rd parties better which created a defacto success because they were itching to get away from Nintendo. In the end though their reason for winning has also been the reason they get into such bad situation. When they lose 3rd party support they are left with very really big games. By the same token if MS ever lost the good standing with western 3rd parties they have now they would sink back to Xbox levels or below.

But the reason why the PS1 and PS2 succeeded is directly related to the reason why the Vita is performing as it does. To entirely rely on third-party like Sony does is a double-edged sword.

And this is why Sony has been building up their 1st party big time this generation. Unfortunately half of them don't want to touch Vita and for good reason.

 

[Father_Brain]

I pretty sure that Sony lucked into their success with the PS1 and, by extension, the PS2. They were at the right place at the right time with the right price. But they really do need a solid gameplan going forward. A strong Sony makes for a better gaming industry.

The "luck" thing is more true of PSP, and especially PS3. It's still a financial disaster, of course, but they'd never have been able to salvage it without the third-party support that they more or less inherited from PS2.

Anyway, to lift a post from the M-C thread: my thinking for a while has been that Sony took Japanese third parties for granted while Vita was in the R&D stages, and assumed they'd be eager to get on board Vita based on the success of titles like MH, exclusive SE ARPGs, Phantasy Star, MGS, God Eater, etc. This pretty much confirms it.

I don't think they ever quite realized that most of those titles would have been on DS had the platform been capable of running them, or bothered asking those publishers if there was any appetite on their part for a handheld significantly more powerful than PSP.

I doubt that they took Western third parties for granted to the same extent, since I imagine that titles like ACIII:L and COD:BO (lol) only came about due to aggressive dealmaking on Sony's part.

 

[Parl]

Given that he didn't say anything along the lines of "we've started seeing progress with getting publishers on board" or anything alluding to that suggests they still haven't, so even if they manage to get some projects on board pretty soon, we won't see the fruits until 2014 - that will be too late. It's still in its infancy, but lack of support is largely self-fulfilling.

Sony need to decide, if they haven't already, what their long-term strategy is going to be now Vita has opened like this. Drop the price, throw some well-targeted money hats (maybe a Vita smartphone?) and make an overall loss to maintain mindshare into next-gen, or manage the Vita business to minimise losses.

I don't see them making the same mistake again next-gen.

That said, it's not certain, they might get a very lucky break with system selling software (like PSP with MH).

 

[Derrick01]

The last three studios Sony closed made a Vita game as their last game. This trend probably isn't lost on the rest of Sony's studios

Naughty Dog is in no danger of being shut down. They could make a Vita game if they wanted to but they flat out refused to make one.

In a way I respect Sony for giving them the freedom to do that because they could easily just say "tough shit" and make them do it and risk driving all the talent away, but on the other hand you NEED to have some damn games for your system that's on life support now.

 

[electroplankton]

But the reason why the PS1 and PS2 succeeded is directly related to the reason why the Vita is performing as it does. To entirely rely on third-party like Sony does is a double-edged sword.

To be fair, even if not at Nintendo level, Sony games were often representative of its first two platforms, as well as highly successful: Gran Turismo, Crash Bandicoot, God of War, Singstar, Jak and Daxter, Syphon Filter, Medievil, Ratchet and Clank, EyeToy, Wipeout. That said, many of them aren't even Sony's anymore, or not as successful as a decade ago.

 

[AranhaHunter]

But the reason why the PS1 and PS2 succeeded is directly related to the reason why the Vita is performing as it does. To entirely rely on third-party like Sony does is a double-edged sword.

SCEA and SCEE realize that and have been developing great IPs since the end of the PS2 days. They have a solid, crazed fanbase to franchises like Uncharted, infamous, Killzone, wipeout, etc. They just don't care about vita at all and, if Sony allowed, they would probably develop for ipad right now. SCEJ on the other hand is still reliant on 3rd parties, short of injecting money on SE and getting a majority share on the company, and thus exclusivity, I don't see how they can even bother Nintendo over there on handhelds or consoles.

Naughty Dog is in no danger of being shut down. They could make a Vita game if they wanted to but they flat out refused to make one.

In a way I respect Sony for giving them the freedom to do that because they could easily just say "tough shit" and make them do it and risk driving all the talent away, but on the other hand you NEED to have some damn games for your system that's on life support now.

ND does what ND wants. They have earned that this generation. Gave a big FU to move and to vita and their next game will still get major marketing bucks and probably be Sony's main holiday title in 2013.

 

[Forever]

"...In retrospect, there are so many options for publishers now that we cannot take it for granted that our new platform would be supported by third parties, like [it would've been] many years ago."

Wait, they really thought that third party support would magically materialize for no reason after launch?

 

[Htown]

Nobody else has won 2 generations in a row as decisively as they did with PS1 and PS2. You'd be crazy to say it was luck when very clear design choices for those systems ended up being a huge advantage.

Nintendo has been dominant in the portable space since the Game Boy came out.

 

[TheSeks]

Another problem is that their digital store is a complete JOKE in the US. Still haven't dropped the price of Wipeout 2048 to match the retail copy on the US PSN store. COME THE FUCK ON, SONY.

 

[metalslimer]

Wait, they really thought that third party support would magically materialize for no reason after launch?

Well when you've had it for so long it clouds your judgment to the point where you don't even think developers have a choice.

Oh and this basically confirms that the chances of a revival are slim to none because if developers don't already know they want to make a game for Vita we won't see the results of any of this for another 2 years

 

[Synth_floyd]

At this point, with the 3DS, iOS, Android platforms available, what incentive does any dev have to put a game on the Vita?

 

[thehypocrite]

Nintendo basically shot themselves in the foot by going with the cartridge format and then charging ridiculous royalties and sky high production costs for the cartridges.

Saturn was always pretty much out of the picture. A completely botched launch and high price meant that it never really had a chance.

All the other console manufacturers during the beginning of the 32 bit era where pretty much non-contenders.

Sony was in the right place to scoop up third party studios. Granted, they were very flexible and welcoming for third parties, but still. Had Nintendo gone with the CD format, there likely never would have been a PS2.

You are not making any sense man. They deserve the credit for taking advantages of their competitors weakness and exploit them to success.

You sound bitter, like a hurt fan saying that their team lost cause "they played like shit" when in reality they were just outplayed.

Give credit where credit is due. They weren't able to do that with the PS3 and the Vita cause their competitors outplayed them out of the gate.

 

[Takao]

To be fair, even if not at Nintendo level, Sony games were often representative of its first two platforms, as well as highly successful: Gran Turismo, Crash Bandicoot, God of War, Singstar, Jak and Daxter, Syphon Filter, Medievil, Ratchet and Clank, EyeToy, Wipeout. That said, many of them aren't even Sony's anymore, or not as successful as a decade ago.

The only IP in that list SCE doesn't own is Crash Bandicoot, and they never owned it.

 

[Kintaro]

<pets his Vita>

I hate to say this, but this system is dead. No major franchises in Japan and Western devs don't give a damn about it. To top it off, western fans don't give a damn about Sony's 1st party developers either, so they are up shit's cheek without a paddle. To top it off, it is a worse PSP and PS1 player than the PSP/Go.

Hell, the scant few announcements for Vita at TGS were either ports or PSP/Vita (or PS3/Vita) hybrids because they just can't trust Vita by itself.

Beautiful piece of kit, but its done in my eyes unless a miracle of epic proportions occurs.

 

[Father_Brain]

Hell, the scant few announcements for Vita at TGS were either ports or PSP/Vita (or PS3/Vita) hybrids because they just can't trust Vita by itself.

You're ignoring the massive

Spoiler

<100K-selling

exclusives that are Senran Kagura Vs. and Valhalla Knights 3.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I really hope Vita recovers from all this. It really is a good system. Best handheld ever in my opinion(minus the games).

 

[SpaceBridge]

SCEA and SCEE realize that and have been developing great IPs since the end of the PS2 days. They have a solid, crazed fanbase to franchises like Uncharted, infamous, Killzone, wipeout, etc. They just don't care about vita at all ....

In their defense, we have had an Uncharted game and we do have a KZ game coming. Id argue that Sony has been too reliant on 1st party development and not reaching out to 3rd party strong enough.

Do they still own shares in Squate Enix?

 

[Vic]

To be fair, even if not at Nintendo level, Sony games were often representative of its first two platforms, as well as highly successful: Gran Turismo, Crash Bandicoot, God of War, Singstar, Jak and Daxter, Syphon Filter, Medievil, Ratchet and Clank, EyeToy, Wipeout. That said, many of them aren't even Sony's anymore, or not as successful as a decade ago.

Sony first-party games weren't the bulk of their platforms software sales, until the PS3 that is in the West.

 

[Spiegel]

Wait, they really thought that third party support would magically materialize for no reason after launch?

Yeah, and it's not like their previous handheld failed in terms of overall third party support post launch (worldwide) and until the MH boom (in Japan) or something.

Wow Sony, wow.

 

[electroplankton]

The only IP in that list SCE doesn't own is Crash Bandicoot, and they never owned it.

I know, I was trying to say that many of them are not in Sony's agenda anymore. As for Crash yeah, but it was Sony publishing.

 

[Toki767]

It reads to me more like Sony isn't willing to pay third parties for Vita exclusives while Nintendo is for 3DS exclusives. Can't really blame them, but it just is how they've been this whole generation.

 

[Kintaro]

You're ignoring the massive

Spoiler

<100K-selling

exclusives that are Senran Kagura Vs. and Valhalla Knights 3.

Ah shit, you're right!

 

[RukusProvider]

The party is over. It'll just take a while for Sony to realize it.

 

[thehypocrite]

Sony first-party games weren't the bulk of their platforms software sales, until the PS3 that is in the West.

I don't think he is referring to sales, I think he's claiming Sony doesn't have an equal stable of IPs on the Vita that help define the identity of the system like those did. I agree to an extent, I think the Vita issues go beyond just software.

 

[Forever]

It reads to me more like Sony isn't willing to pay third parties for Vita exclusives while Nintendo is for 3DS exclusives. Can't really blame them, but it just is how they've been this whole generation.

Nintendo doesn't pay for exclusives.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Vita is basically a Zombie platform. It's a dead system that kind looks alive.

 

[SpaceBridge]

It reads to me more like Sony isn't willing to pay third parties for Vita exclusives while Nintendo is for 3DS exclusives. Can't really blame them, but it just is how they've been this whole generation.

I don't know if money hat is the term is use. Probably that Nintendo has been more engaging and supportive in getting content on the 3DS. Also, Nintendo is had done a stellar job with marketing/advertising and cultivating software awareness. I mean, look at those Nintendo directs. Sony had one, planned another and then quietly killed it.

GAF does a better job marketing Vita games than Sony does.

 

[grimshawish]

That they were surprised at the lack of support in an age of so many choices which are friendlier to the developers themselves says a lot about how much they did not understand the market they're trying to pitch to.

Sony still think their a marketing giant like the PS2 days.
They didn't properly appraise the PSP failures or change in anyway.

Yoshida said Vita will become an attractive platform "when we are able to define what PS Vita is." He said Sony needs to show third parties what Vita players buy, and what kind of games work best on the platform. At that point, Sony will be able to entice more developers to support the handheld.

This is a terrifying fact. (okay not quite 'terrifying' but deeply deeply worrying). I pointed out Vita had no strategy when coming to market - the product was just 'made', shown then mass developed. Sony in automatic; no one told the engineers they didn't want another PSP; and I doubt there was ever an official strategy to make one. It just 'happened' in the Sony labs as they tinkered and put together some things they felt made a good product. Then no one at management questioned the device or asked about costs.

Sony didn't have a definition of the Vita. Your suppose to go into development of hardware with a clear definition of what you want to develop. Thats the point. Did Sony miss the Wii or something? Their management don't have any control over the company whatsoever, it acts independently of them.

 

[Kyon]

Nintendo doesn't pay for exclusives.

Lol @ anyone who believes this