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[Conkerkid11]

Out of all the things to not like about last night's episode, I can't understand people who think Theon could have done anything but flee. The only thing to not like in that scenario is that after he jumps into the water, Euron's just like, "welp, he got away, show's over."

The fact that this means Theon's still gonna be alive and uncaptured is dumb as hell.

Edit: Like, maybe Euron's assuming he'll just freeze to death in the water, but dude doesn't know about Gendry.

 

[Einchy]

Your perspective is naive is all i gotta say.

It makes sense that hes on her side. Shes the only family he has left, aside from tyrion, and shes the love of his life.

Its the woman that you care about, the homeland that you love, the kingdom that you swore to protect vs daughter of the cruelest king in the history of westero and her army of savages that rapes, kills and enslaves people since the beginning of civilization.

Exactly, there's zero reason for Jaime to kill Cersei right now. Yeah, he was shocked and disturbed by her using wildfire, but that's not enough to literally give it all to Dany.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

It doesn't matter that the Carstark lords are children, they represent their whole house who betrayed Robb. It doesn't necessarily punish them as much as it evens the score to strip their lordships. Its not as if they are being exiled, you aren't splitting a thing. This is akin to city rezoning inside a county.

And Jon did nothing to reward his new allies, why would they help him again if he shows favoritism to traitors? The most sensible move would've been to split the lands of the Carstarks with the other houses and call it a day. But Jon is too much of an honorable fool, as was Ned and Robb.

It's such a weird point of honor too. Like, how did the Carstarks get those lands in the first place? Through honorable service to their lord. As soon as they betray their lord, the correct thing to do according to chivalrous code is strip them of lands and titles, not pass it off with "well, that evil shit skips a generation, here you go kids." Why are the Carstark kids more worthy of those lands and titles than other families who stayed loyal who have no lands or titles? How is that more honorable? You aren't punishing someone by making them live like every-fucking-body else, you just aren't continuing to reward them with a lavish lifestyle in the face of their parents' betrayal. "Those kids are entitled to those lands because they suffer from affluenza." Fuck outta here with that shit Jon Snow, you know-nothing idjit.

 

[Nameless]

Before the final siege on King's Landing commences and she goes absolutely insane due to her sheer incompetence due to lack of foresight that got every single one of her children killed and Jaime decides that it's over and as she moves to embrace the only person she thought she could trust he drives a sword through her? Why else would they keep bringing up the fact that he's the Kingslayer? He's gonna kill her ass.

Outside of cherry picking convenient points in the story where a character played some part in a loosely related event that would eventually lead to 'X'(i.e. Ned bringing Sansa & Arya to Kings Landing makes him responsible for everything that happened to them), I don't see how you can draw a clean line from Cersei's lack of foresight/competence to the death of all her children:

Joffrey - murdered by Olenna to protect Margaery and crown a King who the Tyrells could influence & control, and by Littlefinger to create not just an opening to take Sansa, but the sort of upheaval he's a master at manipulating. Also revenge for Cat if you believe him.

Myrcella - Sent to stay with enemies in Dorne against Cersei's protest. Murdered by Elaria as blind revenge for Oberyn who A. Chose to be Tyrion's champion. B. Lost a fight he had won through is own rage and stupidity.

Tommen - the only compelling case of Cersei's actions [mostly] leading to the death of a child. Though it's still important to note that at this point she'd already accepted that his death was inevitable no matter what she did or didn't do.

 

[Netherscourge]

Theon is no use to anyone.

I mean let us not forget he murdered just about everyone (mostly civilians) at Winterfell BEFORE Ramsay got a hold of him - all just to impress his father.

Dude is a waste. Deserves nothing.

 

[The Artisan]

Your perspective is naive is all i gotta say.

It makes sense that hes on her side. Shes the only family he has left, aside from tyrion, and shes the love of his life.

Its the woman that you care about, the homeland that you love, the kingdom that you swore to protect vs daughter of the cruelest king in the history of westero and her army of savages that rapes, kills and enslaves people since the beginning of civilization.

It really isn't. I'm not getting into why because it's not stuff to talk about here.

 

[aBarreras]

It's such a weird point of honor too. Like, how did the Carstarks get those lands in the first place? Through honorable service to their lord. As soon as they betray their lord, the correct thing to do according to chivalrous code is strip them of lands and titles, not pass it off with "well, that evil shit skips a generation, here you go kids." Why are the Carstark kids more worthy of those lands and titles than other families who stayed loyal who have no lands or titles? How is that more honorable? You aren't punishing someone by making them live like every-fucking-body else, you just aren't continuing to reward them with a lavish lifestyle in the face of their parents' betrayal. "Those kids are entitled to those lands because they suffer from affluenza." Fuck outta here with that shit Jon Snow, you know-nothing idjit.

this is of topic, but i find really curious how people that watches the show without subtitles tend to write some things differently. at least on my subtitled version the name is Karstark,

also is Lyanna, not Leanna
Cersei, not cersi.

 

[Iorv3th]

God I hope so. This fucker needs to die by Jons or Sansas hands.

Brandon's on his way back. Maybe he can warg into him and hodor him.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm sympathetic to Theon. It's pretty obvious he has ptsd. He was in no position mentally to be what his sister needed him to be.

He also had no fucking chance to actually save Yara, so I don't think badly of him even if he had had his wits about it.

Out of all the things to not like about last night's episode, I can't understand people who think Theon could have done anything but flee. The only thing to not like in that scenario is that after he jumps into the water, Euron's just like, "welp, he got away, show's over."

The fact that this means Theon's still gonna be alive and uncaptured is dumb as hell.

Edit: Like, maybe Euron's assuming he'll just freeze to death in the water, but dude doesn't know about Gendry.

If they aren't armed with anything to hit him with, it probably would be legitimately impossible to go after him. It's completely dark in the middle of the ocean.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Theon is no use to anyone.

I mean let us not forget he murdered just about everyone (mostly civilians) at Winterfell BEFORE Ramsay got a hold of him - all just to impress his father.

Dude is a waste. Deserves nothing.

Literally every single character from the Iron Islands and Dorne has been a worthless shithead (except for Oberyn, and he's dead). If that battle had ended with a placard dropping down that just read "and everybody died" the show would be better served for it. I don't want another scene with a Greyjoy or Sand Snake, ever, period. They have always been the low points of the show and I would be content with never seeing any of them again. It's nothing against the actors; they're mostly fine, and some are really good (Alfie Allen, for example). It's just the characters are such completely unlikable fuckwits and their motivation consists solely of "continue to be an asshole." Fuck 'em.

If they aren't armed with anything to hit him with, it probably would be legitimately impossible to go after him. It's completely dark in the middle of the ocean.

Also, where's he going to go? He's in the middle of the ocean. Maybe Gendry will find him.

 

[Sephzilla]

What exactly was Theon supposed to do there? For one he still very obviously has massive PTSD from what Ramsay did to him plus there's no way he's going to beat Euron in a one on one fight.

 

[Nameless]

He also had no fucking chance to actually save Yara, so I don't think badly of him even if he had had his wits about it.

It was more how he did it... The clear twitchy regression back to 'Reek' , throwing the Sword down like it was on fire, followed by the awkwardly hilarious 'bail out' into the burning seas. If he had been like 'this isn't over' or 'I'll come for you', something, anything, I think the audience and Yara would have been a bit more understanding.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The biggest narrative handwave in this series is still Euron's construction of the Iron Fleet. How is it even possible he built this all-powerful navy in the time it took Daenerys to sail to Westeros and why didn't anyone else in the Iron Islands ever think to build this ridiculous armada?

 

[aBarreras]

The biggest narrative handwave in this series is still Euron's construction of the Iron Fleet. How is it even possible he built this all-powerful navy in the time it took Daenerys to sail to Westeros and why didn't anyone else in the Iron Islands ever think to build this ridiculous armada?

again, the iron fleet consisted of around a thousand ships, yara stole only 100.

 

[VDenter]

again, the iron fleet consisted of around a thousand ships, yara stole only 100.

When was any of this actually stated?

 

[metareferential]

The biggest narrative handwave in this series is still Euron's construction of the Iron Fleet. How is it even possible he built this all-powerful navy in the time it took Daenerys to sail to Westeros and why didn't anyone else in the Iron Islands ever think to build this ridiculous armada?

It's just a big narrative ellipsis.

Time has passed (allegedly, a lot) and they just don't show it.

 

[Einchy]

It was more how he did it... The clear twitchy regression back to 'Reek' , throwing the Sword down like it was on fire, followed by the awkwardly hilarious 'bail out' into the burning seas. If he had been like 'this isn't over' or 'I'll come for you', something, anything, I think the audience and Yara would have been a bit more understanding.

Indeed, Yara saw Reek again and all that trust she put in him was betrayed once Reek came back.

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

It was more how he did it... The clear twitchy regression back to 'Reek' , throwing the Sword down like it was on fire, followed by the awkwardly hilarious 'bail out' into the burning seas. If he had been like 'this isn't over' or 'I'll come for you', something, anything, I think the audience and Yara would have been a bit more understanding.

It really was the most awkward jump.

 

[Sephzilla]

The biggest narrative handwave in this series is still Euron's construction of the Iron Fleet. How is it even possible he built this all-powerful navy in the time it took Daenerys to sail to Westeros and why didn't anyone else in the Iron Islands ever think to build this ridiculous armada?

Euron technically had all the time took for Theon to sail to Danny, talk to Danny, and sail back to Westeros. During that time Varys booked a roundtrip flight to Westeros and back too.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's just a big narrative ellipsis.

Time has passed (allegedly, a lot) and they just don't show it.

If the Ironborn had the resources to build this ridiculous armada, why didn't they already have this armada?

Euron technically had all the time took for Theon to sail to Danny, talk to Danny, and sail back to Westeros. During that time Varys booked a roundtrip flight to Westeros and back too.

The amount of resources both natural and manpower required to build an insanely huge armada would probably take decades. The battle also carried the implication that these new ships were several times larger and more powerful than the ships Yara stole since Yara was already on a stolen Iron Fleet boat.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

I desperately want Jon and Dany to get killed defeating the white walkers and Cersei taking the 7 kingdoms.

It's the ending the show needs.

 

[Tawpgun]

Jon gonna miss Arya and Bran is so GoT.

 

[Psychoward]

I desperately want Jon and Dany to get killed defeating the white walkers and Cersei taking the 7 kingdoms.

It's the ending the show needs.

"Three cheers to Queen Cersei for ending the White Walker threat for a thousand years!"

Jon gonna miss Arya and Bran is so GoT.

yep

 

[Einchy]

Someone should edit in a wilhelm scream when Reek jumps.

If the Ironborn had the resources to build this ridiculous armada, why didn't they already have this armada?
.

They did, Theon and Yara stole it.

 

[Disgraced]

Jaime is the Starscream to Cersei's Megatron.

 

[Nameless]

The biggest narrative handwave in this series is still Euron's construction of the Iron Fleet. How is it even possible he built this all-powerful navy in the time it took Daenerys to sail to Westeros and why didn't anyone else in the Iron Islands ever think to build this ridiculous armada?

Honestly surprised people are so hung up on this(not really, Thrones is one of the most nitpicked shows ever). Euron started building the Iron Fleet halfway through last season. And then there was a major time jump between Varys meeting with the Tyrells/Dornish and them gathering all those ships and men, sailing to Meerreen, then sailing back.

 

[Aiii]

It's just a big narrative ellipsis.

Time has passed (allegedly, a lot) and they just don't show it.

Still. Building a fleet like that takes years, not months. It is just too hamfisted. People complain about Sheeran taking away their immersion, but narrative complete impossibilities like this? That is fine, just go with it. It is weird.

All they had to do was not have them steal all of Euron's fleet, just like 25% of it and have them drop some oil on the water and set it aflame to explain why Euron does not go in immediate pursuit. Done.

 

[Sephzilla]

I could see the show ending with Sansa betraying Jon in order to get her revenge against Cersei and taking the Iron Throne herself. Sansa avenging her family while simultaneously no longer having a family would be pretty bittersweet.

Jon gonna miss Arya and Bran is so GoT.

I'm hoping Arya and Bran show up and help keep Sansa in check.

Bran: "Sansa, the White Walkers are the more important threat"

Arya: "Sansa, I hate Cersei too but even I pumped the breaks to come back home"

 

[Psychoward]

I could see the show ending with Sansa betraying Jon in order to get her revenge against Cersei and taking the Iron Throne herself. Sansa avenging her family while simultaneously no longer having a family would be pretty bittersweet.



I'm hoping Arya and Bran show up and help keep Sansa in check.

I'm hoping Sansa finally isn't anyone's bitch. It's been 7 seasons, I don't even care if she ends up cold and calculating, just let her be in charge for once pls ty

 

[Principate]

I desperately want Jon and Dany to get killed defeating the white walkers and Cersei taking the 7 kingdoms.

It's the ending the show needs.

That's some Brood War "I guess that just about makes me the queen bitch of the universe" style ending.

I miss old Kerrigan.

 

[RDreamer]

This whole argument is missing the crucial point: Euron didn't even need a fucking fleet. He can apparently tell exactly which boat is holding the most important people and make his ship invisible to get through every other ship right to that important one.

In the show it's said that Yara and Theon took the best ships, not all the ships. So there's still some there.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Honestly surprised people are so hung up on this(not really, Thrones is one of the most nitpicked shows ever). Euron started building the Iron Fleet halfway through last season. And then there was a major time jump between Varys meeting with the Tyrells/Dornish and them gathering all those ships and men, sailing to Meerreen, then sailing back.

The issue is mostly that in real life it took like 2 years on the absolute short end to build a single Spanish galleon. Euron has at least 5 boats that are massive dreadnoughts with skilled crewman that he built within the time it took Yara and Theon to escape to Dany and sail back to Westeros. We'd have to assume several years passed.

 

[Heshinsi]

Is it? Danny just threatened Varys with being incinerated by dragons if he betrayed her (aka: wasn't loyal).

Did you miss the entire context behind that statement? She literally told him to be straight forward and know that she can be called out if she is doing things wrong, but if he is lying about all this "I'm only loyal to the common folk and I have their interest at heart" stuff, and he truly is a conspiring backstabber, she'll deal with him. I honestly believe this was an excellent exchange between a girl who has always believed this man conspired to kill her, and Varys who wanted to show Dany he really isn't what people think he is. They came to an understanding based on trust.

 

[Sephzilla]

This whole argument is missing the crucial point: Euron didn't even need a fucking fleet. He can apparently tell exactly which boat is holding the most important people and make his ship invisible to get through every other ship right to that important one.

Euron knowing where the flag ship would be in the middle of an Ironborn fleet isn't exactly a huge stretch to me. Plus knowing where the fleet would be is more or less just a matter of parking his fleet somewhere around Dragonstone and Dorne and waiting

 

[RDreamer]

Euron knowing where the flag ship would be in the middle of an Ironborn fleet isn't exactly a huge stretch to me. Plus knowing where the fleet would be is more or less just a matter of parking his fleet somewhere around Dragonstone and Dorne and waiting

Parking and waiting somehow invisibly. Then getting through all those ships without any warning to the flag ship at all.

Also, what doesn't make much sense is him saying he'd bring a gift to Cersei in a scene before Dany actually lands. Then he attacks the fleet and gets the right ships for the exact gift Cersei would want? Seriously, does this motherfucker have Varys' spies, too? That's just way too much luck all combined.

 

[Conkerkid11]

Honestly surprised people are so hung up on this(not really, Thrones is one of the most nitpicked shows ever). Euron started building the Iron Fleet halfway through last season. And then there was a major time jump between Varys meeting with the Tyrells/Dornish and them gathering all those ships and men, sailing to Meerreen, then sailing back.

How is that a nitpick? Supposedly the most powerful fleet on the planet was built in a couple months, and it's somehow even more powerful than his previous fleet which was stolen, and they constructed it with absolutely no access to the resources necessary.

 

[Cirekiller]

My prediction is that Arya will kill Little Finger to take his face and pledge all his troops to Jon. Sansa may marry Robin but be manipulating him behind the scenes so that Arya doesn't have to maintain her LF persona for an extended period of time.

 

[The Artisan]

Do Varys's little birds not work for him anymore? Could that be why it seemed like he didn't already know about the king in the north?

They're all little killers now, too.

Also, why didn't Melisandre mention Jon's resurrection?

 

[Sephzilla]

Parking and waiting somehow invisibly. Then getting through all those ships without any warning to the flag ship at all.

Also, what doesn't make much sense is him saying he'd bring a gift to Cersei in a scene before Dany actually lands. Then he attacks the fleet and gets the right ships for the exact gift Cersei would want? Seriously, does this motherfucker have Varys' spies, too? That's just way too much luck all combined.

He knew Dany was coming as well. His promise originally when he took over last season was to marry Dany. He was probably scouting where Dany would be as well. Jamie figured out where Dany would likely land pretty easily too.

Also, his ships are mostly black - they'd be near impossible to see at night.

 

[Ithil]

This will be useful

 

[Elandyll]

I desperately want Jon and Dany to get killed defeating the white walkers and Cersei taking the 7 kingdoms.

It's the ending the show needs.

Not by the hair of my chilly chin chin.

People would riot.

 

[CrazyShady]

Not by the hair of my chilly chin chin.

People would riot.

Exactly

 

[Angry Grimace]

He knew Dany was coming as well. His promise originally when he took over last season was to marry Dany. He was probably scouting where Dany would be as well. Jamie figured out where Dany would likely land pretty easily too.

Also, his ships are mostly black - they'd be near impossible to see at night.

I mean, unless it was a new moon and literally nobody was on deck, I doubt that. I mean, you'd think these invisible black ships would exist in real life if true (although in fairness, they wouldn't build vessels like that for obvious reasons: they would crash into each other)

 

[Pagusas]

I mean, unless it was a new moon and literally nobody was on deck, I doubt that. I mean, you'd think these invisible black ships would exist in real life if true (although in fairness, they wouldn't build vessels like that for obvious reasons: they would crash into each other)

research naval battle history during the height of the english empire.

Or just watch Master and Commander, they have a great night surprise attack sequence.

the surprise attack thing is not a problem here. Knowing where they'd be, sure, but that can be narratively explained with a simple "the idiots were sailing with torches lit" or "we have spies among their ranks". No big deal.

 

[Psychoward]

Not by the hair of my chilly chin chin.

People would riot.

have you been watching the same show


yeah and the ending that's been telegraphed like 3 seasons before the end with jon and dany ruling the north and the south is a much better route


I'm fine with either or, or something else entirely but still

 

[Sleeping Lesson]

This will be useful

Thanks for posting, I just got to use it in a work email.

 

[Elandyll]

have you been watching the same show


yeah and the ending that's been telegraphed like 3 seasons before the end with jon and dany ruling the north and the south is a much better route


I'm fine with either or, or something else entirely but still

Frankly I imagine most people involved in fighting the WWs will die, but I also fully expect both Cercei and LF to end up taking a dagger to the face by either Jaime, Tyrion, Sansa or Arya. Or all 4.

Left to rule?

Sansa in the North, Tyrion in KL and on the Iron Throne (aren't they still technically married btw?) for maximum Tywin fuckery, with Sam as his Maester.

 

[The Artisan]

Exactly, there's zero reason for Jaime to kill Cersei right now. Yeah, he was shocked and disturbed by her using wildfire, but that's not enough to literally give it all to Dany.

it should be more than enough to leave Cersei

 

[Heshinsi]

research naval battle history during the height of the english empire.

Or just watch Master and Commander, they have a great night surprise attack sequence.

the surprise attack thing is not a problem here. Knowing where they'd be, sure, but that can be narratively explained with a simple "the idiots were sailing with torches lit" or "we have spies among their ranks". No big deal.

How does Euron ram the flag ship in the middle of an armada, without hitting the primeter of the formation first? What should have happened was Euron initiating a surprise attack, and the flagship being protected and escorted out of the area. They had far more than enough ships to spare and act as an escape convey while the flanking ships took the brunt of the attack.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That "foreign invasion" line was the cringeiest line ever delivered on this show. Worse than "bad pussy."