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[Speevy]

Pycelle shits himself.

 

[Heshinsi]

Pycelle shits himself.

Does he though if we don't see it? I'm pretty sure I can make the argument, that those guys on that ship Drogon and his siblings lit up, also probably shat themselves. But I can't prove it, therefore they don't get counted.

 

[whitemex88]

His horse took a shit on its way into the throne room when Tywin was named hand of the king.

not only did Tywin get a badass intro to the show (skinning the deer) but his horse did too

 

[iShouldGoPro]

not only did Tywin get a badass intro to the show (skinning the deer) but his horse did too

No one gets a better intro into the show than Tyrion Lannister.

I hope we all can recall the first time we saw Tyrion

 

[Volimar]

No one gets a better intro into the show than Tyrion Lannister.

I hope we all can recall the first time we saw Tyrion

Going back to my crush on Roz, I can say yes, I remember it very well.

 

[Heshinsi]

Going back to my crush on Roz, I can say yes, I remember it very well.

I don't care what Littlefinger did to the Starks; Ned tried to play the game and royally sucked at it. But what LF ended up doing to Ros, needs to be avenged a million times over. I don't understand why she couldn't just leave. She came from the North to work for him, so she didn't owe him anything. Fucking Varys showing that his spy network was shoddy even back then.

 

[The Artisan]

So Tywin and his horse? Lol.

plus all the sick people Sam & the other medical students taking care of those old people shitting themselves.

As fat Robert, definitely ! As Ned, not so much.

nah if I had to choose between the two I'd pick Ned. I can't see Russell Crowe pulling of fat King Robert

not only did Tywin get a badass intro to the show (skinning the deer) but his horse did too

badass in what sense of the word lol

 

[The Artisan]

I don't care what Littlefinger did to the Starks; Ned tried to play the game and royally sucked at it. But what LF ended up doing to Ros, needs to be avenged a million times over. I don't understand why she couldn't just leave. She came from the North to work for him, so she didn't owe him anything. Fucking Varys showing that his spy network was shoddy even back then.

when you say play the game, you mean sit on the iron throne? I don't think Ned cared about sitting on the iron throne, all he cared about was the truth. even though he lied about himself ordering his wife to take Tyrion hostage.

edit: sorry for double post

 

[Zolo]

I don't care what Littlefinger did to the Starks; Ned tried to play the game and royally sucked at it. But what LF ended up doing to Ros, needs to be avenged a million times over. I don't understand why she couldn't just leave. She came from the North to work for him, so she didn't owe him anything. Fucking Varys showing that his spy network was shoddy even back then.

I always got the impression LF had Ros killed to send a message to the other people in his network.

 

[The Artisan]

I always got the impression LF had Ros killed to send a message to the other people in his network.

the side characters all had such dumbass endings. Ros, Yoren, Osha, blackfish, Grenn & Pip, etc.

 

[Heshinsi]

when you say play the game, you mean sit on the iron throne? I don't think Ned cared about sitting on the iron throne, all he cared about was the truth. even though he lied about himself ordering his wife to take Tyrion hostage.

edit: sorry for double post

No when he decided that he'd shack up with LF to enforce Robert's will, and put Joff and Cersei under house arrest while waiting for Stannis to arrive to take the throne. That's not what the spirit of Robert's will was about (hence Ned not writing some of what robert dictated). At that moment Ned was a player, and fucked up horrifically. He should have taken Renly's deal and then try to broker an arrangement between the two brothers.

 

[The Artisan]

No when he decided that he'd shack up with LF to enforce Robert's will, and put Joff and Cersei under house arrest while waiting for Stannis to arrive to take the throne. That's not what the spirit of Robert's will was about (hence Ned not writing some of what robert dictated). At that moment Ned was a player, and fucked up horrifically. He should have taken Renly's deal and then try to broker an arrangement between the two brothers.

I agree with you that Ned should've sided with Renly, but I don't count Ned playing the game because he wasn't hunting for power himself, he was trying to establish justice.

 

[Heshinsi]

I agree with you that Ned should've sided with Renly, but I don't count Ned playing the game because he wasn't hunting for power himself, he was trying to establish justice.

That's still playing the game. Whether he was doing it for himself or for another (Stannis), he became an active participant of the game. When you dedicate yourself in becoming kingmaker, that's as active a role as imaginable.

 

[The Artisan]

That's still playing the game. Whether he was doing it for himself or for another (Stannis), he became an active participant of the game.

i get the sentiment here, but I don't think Ned himself would consider himself a "player in this game" - he probably resents the fact that such a tug of war on power would be itself regarded as a game, makes it sound like it's not being taken seriously in the most important ways

 

[Heshinsi]

i get the sentiment here, but I don't think Ned himself would consider himself a "player in this game" - he probably resents the fact that such a tug of war on power would be itself regarded as a game, makes it sound like it's not being taken seriously in the most important ways

Bro, kingmaker is a game player. The guy with the power to decide who's king and who's not? That's a very powerful position. The Pretorian Guard of Ancient Rome eventually got that level of power, and while not rulers themselves, they decided who sat on the throne, and assassinated emperors foolish enough to displease them. The moment Robert made him Regent, that was him officially entering the great game. Whether he thought of himself that way or not.

 

[Einchy]

Ned would definitely not consider himself a player in The Game but dude became a part of it the second he arrived at King's Landing. Just 'cus you don't like what you are doesn't mean you aren't it.

 

[Oberon]

The fact that there's a bank in the world of GoT makes it seem more real to me. It's really weird.

 

[Robdraggoo]

The fact that there's a bank in the world of GoT makes it seem more real to me. It's really weird.

There was also an insurance sellsman.

 

[The Artisan]

Bro, kingmaker is a game player. The guy with the power to decide who's king and who's not? That's a very powerful position. The Pretorian Guard of Ancient Rome eventually got that level of power, and while not rulers themselves, they decided who sat on the throne, and assassinated emperors foolish enough to displease them. The moment Robert made him Regent, that was him officially entering the great game. Whether he thought of himself that way or not.

I dunno man...I know this show does a good job of bringing their metaphors and turning them into literary manifestations but I don't believe in all of it. "Power resides where men believe it resides" -Varys

and he's right

 

[Heshinsi]

Ned would definitely not consider himself a player in The Game but dude became a part of it the second he arrived at King's Landing. Just 'cus you don't like what you are doesn't mean you aren't it.

Yep, if everyone else sees you as part of their game, whether you say you're playing or not no longer matters. The board is set, the pieces are moving, whether you play or skip it doesn't matter, because you're still part of the game.

 

[Zolo]

That's still playing the game. Whether he was doing it for himself or for another (Stannis), he became an active participant of the game. When you dedicate yourself in becoming kingmaker, that's as active a role as imaginable.

Yeah. Ned should have taken Renly's offer even if it he didn't intend to support Renly which he wouldn't since Renly wasn't the new ruler under the line of succession and was a flat-out usurper. It's when Renly talked about taking the kingship that Ned could be seen visibly disgusted with him.

Then he started talking shit about Stannis like he would be some horrible ruler when there are plenty of much worse rulers while Ned respected Stannis for his feats in the previous wars. Then after that, he talked shit about Robert on the night of his death.

 

[The Artisan]

The fact that there's a bank in the world of GoT makes it seem more real to me. It's really weird.

that conversation Tyrion & Bronn about interest reminds me of how dumb I am for not knowing how interest works in the real world.

 

[Heshinsi]

Yeah. Ned should have taken Renly's offer even if it he didn't intend to support Renly which he wouldn't since Renly wasn't the new ruler under the line of succession and was a flat-out usurper. It's when Renly talked about taking the kingship that Ned could be seen visibly disgusted with him.

Then he started talking shit about Stannis like he would be some horrible ruler when there are plenty of much worse rulers while Ned respected Stannis for his feats in the previous wars. Then after that, he talked shit about Robert on the night of his death.

Well to be fair, if Stannis had taken the throne as Ned intended and Mel was there whispering in his ears; I have no doubt that Mel would have pulled a Catherine de Medici, and start a massacre of the "unfaithful". It would have been horrific.

 

[Zolo]

Well to be fair, if Stannis had taken the throne as Ned intended and Mel was there whispering in his ears; I have no doubt that Mel would have pulled a Catherine de Medici, and start a massacre of the "unfaithful". It would have been horrific.

Hey! It'd be to defeat the Night King!

Spoiler

I actually need to go back and rewatch those scenes because it seems like he didn't become as reliant on her until after his defeat at blackwater bay and her leech trick.

 

[Heshinsi]

Hey! It'd be to defeat the Night King!

Spoiler

I actually need to go back and rewatch those scenes because it seems like he didn't become as reliant on her until after his defeat at blackwater bay and her leech trick.

We're introduced to Stannis with a bonfire they throw to destroy the statues of the old gods. We're then shown right afterwards, that this god and his red priestess are fucking crazy, when Mel does that "yeah I'll drink this poisonous drink" bluff call. A few episodes later, Mel convinces Stannis to ok the use of black magic to assassinate Renly. Oh she had Stanny boy wrapped around her finger from the get go.

Interesting how the only reason Stannis agreed to Davos' suggestion to leave Mel behind during the attack on KL, was so that he alone could take all the credit for it.

 

[Goodstyle]

Stannis was such a punk bitch. People kept moaning about what a great character he was, but the entire time he seemed like a weak, easily manipulated man. When he died, all of reddit was mourning, meanwhile I was like

 

[wandering]

Where the hell is Gendry

 

[Oberon]

There was also an insurance sellsman.

I wonder if they have any way yo investigate insurance frauds.
Speaking of frauds, we all agree that the finally of the story will be a fistfight between Stannis (still alive) and that Blacksmith on a boat to determine who will be king, right?

 

[SargerusBR]

Where the hell is Gendry

 

[iShouldGoPro]

Where the hell is Gendry

i was thinking this myself last episode. i hope he serves some bigger purpose sometime soon

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Gendry better show up with like some master crafted armor for Jon and Dany.

 

[rtcn63]

Where the hell is Gendry

 

[Speevy]

I don't think they've left off a single character from season 3's "Remember them?" tour, so Gendry is sure to follow.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

you've peaked my interest. what is this from?

 

[Speevy]

you've peaked my interest. what is this from?

piqued

 

[rtcn63]

you've peaked my interest. what is this from?

The Fades

 

[DarkJediKnight]

i don't like bran

gimme more meera reed

Please please let Howland Reed come to Winterfell when Jon returns.

 

[Speevy]

Please please let Howland Reed come to Winterfell when Jon returns.

How can he come to Winterfell if he's already dead?

 

[Froli]

I miss her long hair, but the current short one makes her more intimidating as the crazy queen.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

piqued

i actually meant it as the height of my interest has been reached

The Fades

well, there it is

 

[The Artisan]

How can he come to Winterfell if he's already dead?

how do you know he's dead?

 

[Robdraggoo]

How can he come to Winterfell if he's already dead?

What, how and when did he die? It was never mentioned

 

[Heshinsi]

So two things popped up at me while I was thinking about why Dany was so stubborn and hostile when Jon first met with her.

Dany has not once in six season met a man in a position of power who wasn't a complete and utter dipshit to her. Her brother, who was the first male in a position to enforce his power on her, abused her, hurt her, and eventually sold her to a barbarian. Khal Drogo, while they eventually fell in love, raped her on her wedding night. The man who welcomed her to Qarth, who promised her protection and safety, ended up plotting to steal her dragons, kill her hand maiden, and take the lives of many of her Khalasar. And we all know how her interactions with the slave masters went. So until Jon, Dany's only knowledge when it comes to men with power, was to be weary and not show any signs of weakness to them. They only thing she learned that they understood, was power and the effective display of it.

But it's the second point that really interests me. Tyrion tells Dany that he knows Jon due to having taken a trip with him to the wall. Naturally she would also learn from Tyrion that Jon was a member of the Night's Watch, and it wouldn't at all surprise me that she'd also come to learn what the Night's watch do and more importantly, how they're structured. The reason why this is important, is that if Dany knows that Night's Watchmen make an oath to disavow themselves from titles and the pursuit of lordships and thrones, then Jon declaring himself the King in the North presents a very big problem.

In her exact position, my own thoughts on Jon would essentially be, that this a man who saw an opportunity to carve himself a kingdom, and took advantage of the instability following Robert's death by claiming the north. It doesn't matter what Tyrion would tell me about the man he knew, because the man standing in front of me is an oath breaker. He was sworn to the Night's Watch, he swore to never covet crowns, and lands, and yet here he was with that and more. Why would I give him an inch? Bend the knee, and maybe I won't lob his head off for deserting the Night's Watch. At least Dany was a lot more diplomatic than I would have been.

As far as the last point goes. For those who don't know of Jon's death and resurrection, what exactly do they think in regards to Jon and his Night's Watch past? I would think this should cause him problems, no?

 

[The Artisan]

So something I was thinking about in regards to why Dany was so stubborn when and hostile when Jon first met with her. And two things popped up at me.

Dany has not once in six season met a man in a position of power, who wasn't a complete and utter dipshit to her. Her brother, who was the first male in a position to enforce his power on her, abused her, hurt her, and eventually sold her to a barbarian. Khal Drogo, while they eventually fell in love, raped her on her wedding night. The man who welcomed her to Qarth, who promised her protection and safety, ended up plotting to steal her dragons, kill her hand maiden, and took the lives of many of her Khalasar. And we all know how her ineteractions with the slave masters went. So until Jon, Dany's only knowledge when it comes to men with power, is to be weary and not show any signs of weakness to them.

But it's the second point that really interests me. Tyrion tells Dany that he knows Jon due to having taken a trip with him to the wall. Naturally would also learn from Tyrion that's Jon was a member of the Night's watch, and it wouldn't at all surprise me that she'd also some to learn what the Night's watch do and more importantly, how they're structured. The reason why this is important, is that if Dany knows that Night's Watchmen make an oath to disavow themselves from titles and the pursuit of lordships and thrones, then Jon declaring himself the King in the North presents a very big problem.

In her exact position, my own thoughts on Jon would essentially be, that this a man who saw an opportunity to carve himself a kingdom, and took advantage of the instability following Robert's death by claiming the north. It doesn't matter what Tyrion would tell me about the man he knew, because the man standing in front of me is an oath breaker. He was sworn to the Night's Watch, he swore to never covet crowns, and lands, and yet here he is with that and more. Why would I give him an inch? Bend the knee, and maybe I won't lob your head off for deserting the Night's Watch. At least Dany was a lot more diplomatic than I would have been.

As far as the last point goes. For those who don't know of Jon's death and resurrection, what exactly do they think in regards to Jon and his Night's Watch past? I would think this should cause him problems, no?

I actually typed this all out in the other thread, but it works here as well, why I didn't like their first meeting in review

-both Dany and Jon pissed me off

-Varys wasn't there and he should have been

-when Dany asked if she had her history wrong after saying the last king in the north bent the knee to Aegon Targaryen, nobody in the room, not Davos whom she was addressing, not Jon, not Tyrion, not Varys, stopped to correct Dany to tell her that the last king in the north was NOT Torrhen Stark, it was Robb Stark who was viciously killed. And Robb didn't kneel to nobody.

-As soon as Jon is there, Dany assumed he was gonna bend the knee she literally said so, now here's the thing with that: if bending the knee is such an important thing with Dany then I would've expected to see the other Westerosi kneeling before her since it's so important to her. We never saw Theon & Yara doing it, we never saw Olenna doing it, and we never saw any of the sandsnakes doing it. And there was no mention of it either. For some reason she was making it a big deal specifically to get Jon Snow to do it, and I could not begin to fathom where in the world the line "...and bend the knee" came from in episode 2. When Melisandre & Tyrion were telling Dany about Jon it was all good things. If the things they were saying were a mixed bag, I'd understand she'd be thinking "hm alright this guy sounds like a fuckhead but he's done some things that can be useful & calls himself king, I'll give him a shot", and the line "tell Jon Snow his queen invites him over" would make sense with "and bend the knee" at the end. but since they were talking all, good things about Jon, I figure Dany would be thinking "hm, alright, this guy sounds like he's got good reason to hate Cersei, and he's done good things so he's trustworthy. he'll make a good ally..." and it would make sense for her to just invite him, and not demand a kneel. if that makes sense. she also probably assumed it because she probably assumed Tyrion wrote that part in the parchment; he conveniently left it out.

-everybody talks about how Dany was asking forgiveness for her father's sins on behalf of House Targaryen, they compare it to how Jon said he won't punish the Umber & Karstark children for the sins of their fathers. However, Jon also rationalizes it as "I will not take a family away from their ancestral home..." - and here, Jon rationalizes himself as "not beholden to my ancestor's vows..." but technically by his logic, Dany's ancestral right was Queen of the 7 kingdoms and therefore queen in the north, and technically, Jon was denying Dany of her ancestral "right".

-Jon literally says "We're children playing at a game screaming that the rules aren't fair," and Dany gets offended by that saying "...now he's calling me a child" - Tyrion responds by saying he's calling all of them children, that part is right, and then he goes on to say "figure of speech" - but NO Jon literally said WE are children, how the hell did she hear that as "you are a child" wtf Dany?! I get that Jon is horrible at explaining things but this just doesn't make sense.

-and speaking of nonsense, Dany's rant made absolutely no sense; I mean everything she said I can buy it I guess but her going on a rant, as a response to Jon bringing up the winter war; made no sense! It's not like Jon was saying, look I need help and you need mine and I also don't think you should be ruling the 7 kingdoms. No, that's not what he said at all all he said was, nah I'm not here to bend the knee, but listen we're all sitting ducks here because there is an apocalyptic level threat happening very close to home for me right now.

-So honestly, the only thing I can think of to make it logical for her to start that tirade, is that it kinda started out with how Euron was talking to Cersei except he was trying to sweet talk her and when he tries to take a step towards her the mountain steps in. Same thing here, Jon takes a step towards Dany and the Dothraki stop him. But she was impressed with Jon Snow and subconsciously respected him so far and wanted to showcase how tough she is and whatever hasn't killed her has made her stronger and brought her to Westeros. She was impressed by him and figured she had to get up and start walking over to him so she could look him directly in the eye. But this is an example of the writing being so uninspired that we the fans who think about it, have to think of a way of having it make actual sense in the story, coz I really have no idea except this. People were doing that often with Euron's whole Greyjoy fleet and how OP it is.

-And during that tirade she mentions that she wondered if Jon's father knew that his best friend conspired to kill her. Again, I have to reinforce how unfortunate it was that Varys wasn't present since he was there at the Small Council meeting when Ned refused and resigned as King's Hand when Robert wouldn't back down from killing Dany. Surely that's something Tyrion would've known about by now?

-Tyrion says to Jon, "pledge your sword to her cause" and Jon goes "and why would I do that?!" - why NOT Jon? The Lannisters killed your father, your brother, your foster mother even though she didn't love you, tortured your sister, crippled another brother although he doesn't know this, and you yourself even said she's better than Cersei! And you don't even care about the iron throne so why not just give yourself to her? Unless Jon just doesn't respect Dany immediately like the way she has respected him; otherwise I don't think she would've kept him there. She would've either let him go or killed him if things got really sour. But she forced him to stay for...some reasons. There were times where she had meetings with men in power and a lot of the times those meetings didn't end well. But she forcefully ended this one well, confining him to the island but disguising it as him being a guest there.

-one last thing; Jon never ever mentions the fact that he knew & respected late Maester Aemon. Let's see if he does it in future episodes but that was a massive disservice how didn't bring it up. "Break faith? Your father burned my grandfather alive. He burned my uncle alive. He would've burned the seven kingdoms. By the way, I was a sworn brother of the Night's Watch, and your elder uncle and I never broke faith with each other." I kind of understand him not bending the knee - he said he meant no disrespect but he only just met Dany, he isn't discounting her of everything she said and went through but again they're making this whole kneeling thing important; Jon has spent way too much time with the wildlings, and got to know Mance Rayder personally.

Apologies for all that, I know it was a tirade of my own making. So, you can clearly see how much the dynamic of these 2 characters together is important to me, and I had extremely high expectations for their first meeting. I really wish and believe it could've been a bit better.

 

[Grinchy]

I miss her long hair, but the current short one makes her more intimidating as the crazy queen.

It just looks like a bad wig to me. It's distracting. I miss the long hair, too.

 

[fly high ~ayunite~]

For some reason I keep thinking Gendry and Podrick are the same characters.

 

[Heshinsi]

I actually typed this all out in the other thread, but it works here as well, why I didn't like their first meeting in review

Telling her he was a sworn brother of the Night's Watch would lead right into my last point. How does anyone who isn't from the north not think Jon is an opportunistic crown chaser, without knowing he died and came back?

"Hey I was a sworn member..."

Yeah about that. Didn't your dad kill a guy in the first episode for abandoning his duties, even though he did see what he claimed to see?

 

[rtcn63]

For some reason I keep thinking Gendry and Podrick are the same characters.

It's a you vs. the guy she told you not to worry about situation

Spoiler

Podrick being the latter

 

[Speevy]

The relationship between Podrick and Brienne is rather odd at this point, isn't it? Why is he still following her around?

 

[Einchy]

The relationship between Podrick and Brienne is rather odd at this point, isn't it? Why is he still following her around?

I dunno, they like each other.