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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO

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M

Magnus

Member
apana said:
Have you read the books already Magnus or are your impressions of the tv show fresh?
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I'm in the middle of Feast, but write with a blank-slate mentality and try to treat the show totally as its own monster, and actively avoid even comparing the show to ACoK, with rare exception. Thankfully, that's become easier to do since the show's been surprising us and deviating a lot from the source material this season.

The comments section beneath the article obviously includes some comparisons by posters to ACoK, but so far, people have been considerate about never posting book spoilers.

It's tricky territory to navigate sometimes, just like the various threads here that have tried to coexist and please all audiences.
 
S

Sotha Sil

Member
Kad5 said:
How is it compared to Breaking Bad? Breaking Bad is probably my favorite TV show.
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It's really, really different since it follows many characters and is really plot-heavy, whereas Breaking Bad is focused on its two leads and often takes its time to tell its story. Thematically speaking, though, both show explore the duality of man and know how to mix blood and humor, so it might be your cup of tea. Give it a try!
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Kad5 said:
Never watched this before.

Is this supposed to be the best Fantasy series on TV?
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If you've never read the books there's a high chance you'll love it.

If you've read the books you'd still enjoy it but you'd nitpick things. :b
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Kad5 said:
How is it compared to Breaking Bad? Breaking Bad is probably my favorite TV show.
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Very different, I don't think it's a fair comparison. GoT is an adaption and while it strays from the books at times, it sticks to a lot of the basic premises, making it shackled in many ways which leads to a lot of exposition to catch new viewers up; whereas Breaking Bad is able to do whatever it wants.

It doesn't compare in terms of writing, acting, directing or pretty much anything Breaking Bad has going for it, but it's a solid show
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
If we're going to compare GoT to another show I'd say the closest is Deadwood. Tons of characters, similar themes, great acting and that amazing HBO production value.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Kad5 said:
So bottom-line is that this is one of the best TV shows ever I presume?
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What sets Game of Thrones apart is its unpredictability in the genre.

Typically in a story like this you have clear villains and clear heroes, and you see events unfold which put the heroes closer to reclaiming what is rightfully theirs, or completing their quest in triumph.

In Game of Thrones, there are villains who want to do the right thing, and heroes who are bound to do the wrong thing. There are dozens of characters, and none of them have a fate which is predestined.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Very different, I don't think it's a fair comparison. GoT is an adaption and while it strays from the books at times, it sticks to a lot of the basic premises, making it shackled in many ways which leads to a lot of exposition to catch new viewers up; whereas Breaking Bad is able to do whatever it wants.

It doesn't compare in terms of writing, acting, directing or pretty much anything Breaking Bad has going for it, but it's a solid show
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Very little of the exposition is because they're shackled though. Almost all of it is completely new and IMO very unnecessary. They rely too much on telling stories about their past to create emotion. I hate the story telling style they use sometimes.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Lothar said:
Very little of the exposition is because they're shackled though. Almost all of it is completely new and IMO very unnecessary. They rely too much on telling stories about their past to create emotion. I hate the story telling style they use sometimes.
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Agreed, but there is also a decent amount of story exposition that isn't fully character driven. You're right that most of the "let me tell you a sad story about myself/yourself" scenes/dialogue are weak. Yara's Theon story was especially weak, and to me an example of poor writing decisions. Here's a guy who had just (episode spoiler for those who haven't seen it yet:)
burned two kids to death
and the show decides to humanize him with a throwaway emotional scene that accomplished...what exactly? It just didn't feel authentic, given Theon's character as well as that of his sister. Even when this narrative style seems to work, such as Talisa telling her life story, it just doesn't feel authentic or real. No one talks like that in real life. There are so many good examples of character monologues on television, where a character tells a personal story - hell, Breaking Bad is full of these. Game Of Thrones does this so clumsily to the point where it kills momentum and just feels unnatural.

Last season: Sam's story about his father, with the clunky dialogue of Sam directly quoting his father word for word ("you're a man grown, he says")- again, no one does that when telling a personal story. Very weird pronoun use
 
F

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
PhoenixDark said:
Last season: Sam's story about his father, with the clunky dialogue of Sam directly quoting his father word for word ("you're a man grown, he says")- again, no one does that when telling a personal story. Very weird pronoun use
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Sure in our world, I don't find it weird in Westeros.


Cornballer said:
- WiC.net with The Daily Raven 14: “The Prince of Winterfell” Recap
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People should be warned that she spoils something that looks like it will happen in the last episode.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
Agreed, but there is also a decent amount of story exposition that isn't fully character driven. You're right that most of the "let me tell you a sad story about myself/yourself" scenes/dialogue are weak. Yara's Theon story was especially weak, and to me an example of poor writing decisions. Here's a guy who had just (episode spoiler for those who haven't seen it yet:)
burned two kids to death
and the show decides to humanize him with a throwaway emotional scene that accomplished...what exactly? It just didn't feel authentic, given Theon's character as well as that of his sister. Even when this narrative style seems to work, such as Talisa telling her life story, it just doesn't feel authentic or real. No one talks like that in real life. There are so many good examples of character monologues on television, where a character tells a personal story - hell, Breaking Bad is full of these. Game Of Thrones does this so clumsily to the point where it kills momentum and just feels unnatural.

Last season: Sam's story about his father, with the clunky dialogue of Sam directly quoting his father word for word ("you're a man grown, he says")- again, no one does that when telling a personal story. Very weird pronoun use
Click to expand...

I think I'm looking forward to the next episode more because GRRM is writing it than I am because it's Blackwater.
 
A

Arment

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Agreed, but there is also a decent amount of story exposition that isn't fully character driven. You're right that most of the "let me tell you a sad story about myself/yourself" scenes/dialogue are weak. Yara's Theon story was especially weak, and to me an example of poor writing decisions. Here's a guy who had just (episode spoiler for those who haven't seen it yet:)
burned two kids to death
and the show decides to humanize him with a throwaway emotional scene that accomplished...what exactly? It just didn't feel authentic, given Theon's character as well as that of his sister. Even when this narrative style seems to work, such as Talisa telling her life story, it just doesn't feel authentic or real. No one talks like that in real life. There are so many good examples of character monologues on television, where a character tells a personal story - hell, Breaking Bad is full of these. Game Of Thrones does this so clumsily to the point where it kills momentum and just feels unnatural.

Last season: Sam's story about his father, with the clunky dialogue of Sam directly quoting his father word for word ("you're a man grown, he says")- again, no one does that when telling a personal story. Very weird pronoun use
Click to expand...

I just don't agree with any of this. People tell stories all the time. Where do you live that people don't tell stories about their life? People don't directly quote people in stories? What? Seems nitpicky.

Sam tells his story to Jon in the book in the same fashion. The Yara/Theon part was fine because it established a bit more about their characters. Up until this point she's basically hated Theon on sight. That was the unrealistic part. Now we have this nice story and maybe a slight semblance of compassion she might feel for her brother of all people. After all this time, after all his family has treated him like dirt for being a hostage/ward, he finally gets some sympathy and from an unlikely source. I thought it was nice.

Not to mention she gave Theon an out. An out we know he should take because Bolton is sending his son to re-take Winterfell.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
Thought it was really cheesy and unrealistic for her "you were an awful baby" and go into a story about it in the middle of a short conversation.

They could have had her show compassion without her telling a backstory.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Arment said:
I just don't agree with any of this. People tell stories all the time. Where do you live that people don't tell stories about their life? People don't directly quote people in stories? What? Seems nitpicky.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying people don't tell stories irl or on television - in fact I specifically pointed out Breaking Bad. My point is that they rarely sound authentic on this show. Characters go into massive monologues out of nowhere that just aren't written well imo, and don't "flow" or feel like something you might hear in another show or irl. In the case of Sam, the dialogue just felt clunky as he directly quoted his father; "hold told me..." just sounds more natural and is used more often in television/film.

Or in the case of Yara, an abrupt change of subject in order to...do what exactly. Before that scene there was no hint of love or warmth in their relationship.

That may seem like a nitpick, but it's one of many issues the build up with this show, in terms of the writing.
 
L

Lothar

Banned
You might be able to make a case that it was a nitpick if it wasn't a technique they used all the time. Three times during the last episode. The only story that needed to be told was Stannis/Davos, but it didn't seem like that was the right time for it directly after Talisa's long boring exposition scene. The nonbook fans I was watching it with were starting to doze off at that point.
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I'm not saying people don't tell stories irl or on television - in fact I specifically pointed out Breaking Bad. My point is that they rarely sound authentic on this show. Characters go into massive monologues out of nowhere that just aren't written well imo, and don't "flow" or feel like something you might hear in another show or irl. In the case of Sam, the dialogue just felt clunky as he directly quoted his father; "hold told me..." just sounds more natural and is used more often in television/film.

Or in the case of Yara, an abrupt change of subject in order to...do what exactly. Before that scene there was no hint of love or warmth in their relationship.

That may seem like a nitpick, but it's one of many issues the build up with this show, in terms of the writing.
Click to expand...
that scene kind of bugged me too. It's like "oh hey here is some depth in yo face!". Came out of nowhere.
 
A

Arment

Member
Lothar said:
You might be able to make a case that it was a nitpick if it wasn't a technique they used all the time. Three times during the last episode. The only story that needed to be told was Stannis/Davos, but it didn't seem like that was the right time for it directly after Talisa's long boring exposition scene. The nonbook fans I was watching it with were starting to doze off at that point.
Click to expand...

And then the amazing sex scene perked them right up, huh?

There's many instances of a character divulging their past through a story in the books. Get ready for many more in the television show.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Not sure why people are upset about purple eyes. Colored contacts always look extremely fake. Case in point:

eAaWa.jpg
 
S

Shahadan

Member
calza said:
Because she is supposed to be a descendant of high Valyria. Blonde hair and purple eyes are distinct features of a Targ.
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No kidding.

Colored contacts are a pain. You could find many anecdotes about Dark Willow's in Buffy or Adria's in Stargate. They can be impractical for long shooting session or look dumb.

And "violet" eyes are blue ones in real life anyway.
 
W

Wray

Member
RaidenZR said:
They could probably get away with [series]
using him for half of season 3 and dragging out interactions up north. Then not using him for the back half of season 3, maybe a tease or complete absence in season 4 to close out ASOS. Then bring him back in the fold for season 5 as a major character. They're going to have to mix-n-match scenes to produce a more fluid chronology of events for Season 4/AFFC-ADWD. They may also be radically deviating by that point in time, but if they stuck to the book, asking the actor to make story-purposed disappearance isn't without precedence.
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I still think that Theon is going to be interacting with "Reek" for most of S3 and not Ramsay. I think something will happen in the S2 Finale or early next season where "Ramsay" is killed and Reek ends up in Winterfell. Then toward the later parts of S3, Reek will reveal himself as Ramsay and capture Theon.

Keeping Theon in Winterfell holding down the fort would be easy to do for around 5 episodes if the writers wanted to do that. It'd give lots of time to develop "Reek" as a character. Not to mention it would give the writers a chance to keep Asha on screen too. Since she basically isn't doing anything in the first half of SoS and the Kingsmoot likely wont happen till S4.

Plus they could also introduce Victarion or Aeron earlier into the story if they wanted and bring one of them to Winterfell. Does anybody remember what Victarion and Aeron are doing in early SoS?

I don't either.

As far as S4 goes. That should be the season that deals with Theon in captivity. They could put him in about 4-5 Episodes in S4 where he's getting Tortured. Plus they can show his escape attempt with that girl (Insert Ros LOL!) who gets eaten by Ramsay's hounds. Then around Ep7 they can start moving up some of his chapters from Dance. They can end his S4 story with him negotiating the surrender of the Ironborn at Moat Cailin and their subsequent flaying.

Then S5 is the rest of his Dance chapters culminating with the Battle of Winterfell if that indeed happens early in Winds.
 
S

SpeedySwaf

Member
I started reading the first book in the series a couple days ago, and really enjoying it so far. Haven't gotten around to watching the series yet, but I figure I could probably buy the first season some time in the future.

Somehow, I didn't hear that the series manages to show an entire hour without any commercials. I'm really curious about the economics of that. Do the books/dvds/hbo subs/etc. bring in enough to make that possible, or is there more to it? Because I'm really loving the idea.
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
SpeedySwaf said:
I started reading the first book in the series a couple days ago, and really enjoying it so far. Haven't gotten around to watching the series yet, but I figure I could probably buy the first season some time in the future.

Somehow, I didn't hear that the series manages to show an entire hour without any commercials. I'm really curious about the economics of that. Do the books/dvds/hbo subs/etc. bring in enough to make that possible, or is there more to it? Because I'm really loving the idea.
Click to expand...

All HBO shows do this. It's due primarily to the subscription that HBO requires. The DVDs and overseas sales also help, though the books have nothing to do with it.
 
JordoftheDead

JordoftheDead

Member
I'm sure this has already been posted, but The National's version of The Rains of Castamere makes me all kinds of happy.

Still, one of my favourite bands playing a song from the lore of one of my favourite series will always do that.

Moody as hell, and Matt's voice and the Cello sound amazing through top-notch bass-heavy headphones.

http://soundcloud.com/wearehitsville/the-rains-of-castamere-by-the

I wonder if it will feature in the show at all.

SpeedySwaf said:
Somehow, I didn't hear that the series manages to show an entire hour without any commercials. I'm really curious about the economics of that. Do the books/dvds/hbo subs/etc. bring in enough to make that possible, or is there more to it? Because I'm really loving the idea.
Click to expand...

You've never watched in HBO series? Get this man some series box-sets stat!
 
J

jett

D-Member
JordoftheDead said:
I'm sure this has already been posted, but The National's version of The Rains of Castamere makes me all kinds of happy.

Still, one of my favourite bands playing a song from the lore of one of my favourite series will always do that.

Moody as hell, and Matt's voice and the Cello sound amazing through top-notch bass-heavy headphones.

http://soundcloud.com/wearehitsville/the-rains-of-castamere-by-the

I wonder if it will feature in the show at all.



You've never watched in HBO series? Get this man some series box-sets stat!
Click to expand...

That was weird to be honest and doesn't fit the medieval world of GoT at all, I guess it's not supposed to.
 
JordoftheDead

JordoftheDead

Member
I don't think it's supposed to sound medieval at all. I think it may be used in network promos, much like the Seven Devils track, but as a nice nod to fans of the book as it's actually from the series.
 
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