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[Lunatic_Gamer]

We recently learned that Redfall is going to hit Xbox Series X/S without a Performance Mode, locking the game to a 30FPS Quality Mode until a patch arrives sometime after release. Now, I need to speak to Redfall directly here: You look awesome, and I've spent a lot of years loving console games that ran at 30FPS - or worse. But PS5 and Xbox Series X have given us a glimpse of a glorious future where console games can run at 60FPS, and I'm not willing to give that up now.

Obviously, 60FPS performance modes are not yet universal on current-gen consoles. But we've begun to expect modern games - even gorgeous cinematic powerhouses like Sony's Horizon Forbidden West and God of War Ragnarok - to offer the option to go beyond 30FPS. These options have been common at least in part because many of these games were also built with the previous generation in mind, and if something can run to a reasonable standard on PS4 and Xbox One, surely it can be that much better on newer hardware.

That's about all the technical analysis you're going to get here, because I'm not qualified to provide much more and it ultimately doesn't matter much. 60FPS games simply feel dramatically better to play, and now that I've spent nearly three years getting used to console games with higher frame rates, I don't think there's any level of graphical fidelity impressive enough to make me willing to go back.

Redfallen​

Redfall is a particularly curious example, given how the vast majority of pre-launch gameplay videos we've seen have been recorded at 60FPS, an experience console players will be unable to enjoy for some (unknown amount of) time.

That makes this sudden Performance Mode announcement feel like a bit of a bait and switch. For as dumb as controversies like Spider-Man's puddlegate are, console Redfall fans are genuinely going to get a launch experience that is demonstrably less smooth than what we've seen in extensive pre-release footage.

Plus this is a cooperative action game, one that'll presumably offer rewards for taking on enemies at escalating difficulty levels over time. I'm sure none of that will be impossible at 30FPS, but when that 60FPS patch hits it's going to feel like the training weights have come off. But I don't think I'm going to have the patience to wait for that moment.

The new-gen crossroads​

This console generation is finally hitting its stride, and we're starting to see a strong run of current-gen exclusives. Games like the Dead Space remake and Forspoken have continued to offer 60FPS Performance Modes, while games like A Plague Tale: Requiem and Redfall are purely offering 30FPS options. We're at a bit of a crossroads here, and as devs start to really push the capabilities of the new machines, they're going to start asking the question: do we prioritize fancy visuals or smooth performance?

For me, that question is barely worth asking. We've seen loads of nice-looking games this generation already, but the true revelation of PS5 and Xbox Series X has been just how fast and snappy everything is. Quick resume, instant loading times, and, yes, high framerates. These are the features that have defined the new console generation, not better lighting or antialiasing.

Please, developers, I'm begging you. If you have to make me choose between Performance Mode and Quality Mode at launch, give me the one that actually makes the game play better.

Fingers crossed that more than a few of the biggest new games for 2023 will go the 60FPS route.

Sorry Redfall, I'm not going back to 30FPS console games

Opinion | Redfall is taking the wrong path on the inevitable new-gen crossroads

www.gamesradar.com

 

[Warnen]

 

[bentanchorbolt]

People should spend less time listening to op-ed videos/reading articles, being told how to feel about things. If you don't want to go back to 30fps then wait for the announced 60fps patch, or buy it for PC where your options are dictated by your hardware and settings boxes.

 

[feynoob]

 

[Punished Miku]

I'll take a 60 fps option every time. Graphics already look good.

 

[ReBurn]

30 fps console games never went anywhere to begin with.

 

[Fbh]

I said it another thread but I'm willing to accept a 30fps console if it present a generational leap over Horizon Forbidden West or some insane physics/interactivity/destruction.

But Redfall ain't it. Also no reason to play at launch since they already confirmed a 60fps mode for later.

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Vick]

For me, that question is barely worth asking. We've seen loads of nice-looking games this generation already, but the true revelation of PS5 and Xbox Series X has been just how fast and snappy everything is. Quick resume, instant loading times, and, yes, high framerates. These are the features that have defined the new console generation, not better lighting or antialiasing.

Please, developers, I'm begging you. If you have to make me choose between Performance Mode and Quality Mode at launch, give me the one that actually makes the game play better.

Fingers crossed that more than a few of the biggest new games for 2023 will go the 60FPS route.

http://[URL]https://www.gamesradar.com/sorry-redfall-im-not-going-back-to-30fps-console-games/

[/URL]

Thank you, GamesRadar.

 

[winjer]

I could understand the game having to run at 30 fps, if it looked amazingly good.
But this game looks like a crossgen title but with higher resolution.
Chances are they are forcing 30 fps because of poor optimization.

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

I understand having a preference for >30fps, but not playing a game because it's 30 FPS is outrageous as far as I'm concerned. When did we stop playing games because they were good games, and only play them as long as the framerate/resolution was above some arbitrary threshold

 

[MikeM]

People should spend less time listening to op-ed videos/reading articles, being told how to feel about things. If you don't want to go back to 30fps then wait for the announced 60fps patch, or buy it for PC where your options are dictated by your hardware and settings boxes.

Not everyone wants a gaming PC though. Or can afford one.

I have a strict 30fps only, no buy policy on console (I do have a PC tho). Hopefully more and more do the same. Send a message to devs that 30fps needs to die.

 

[balls of snow]

Really you would play Dead Space remake at 1080p/60 on your expensive 4k tv. Ok then.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

disastrous PR week for Xbox and Bethesda

 

[Deerock71]

60 FPS utopia hopes & dreams:

 

[Luigi Mario]

Friendly reminder that these hacks are the first ones to complain about crunch culture and game delays.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Not everyone wants a gaming PC though. Or can afford one.

I have a strict 30fps only, no buy policy on console (I do have a PC tho). Hopefully more and more do the same. Send a message to devs that 30fps needs to die.

I feel you but they announced a 60fps patch already. Nobody forces anyone to play games at launch in fact it's always good to wait, I was already going to and it being 30fps at launch kind of reinforces that. Unless the game is some big MP game with launch events there is largely not much of a reason to play a game during its launch window since you will always in every case be playing the most inferior version of the game.

 

[rabbity-thing]

Some of the finest games ever made ran and run at 30fps. It's not a big deal. Unless you're one of those people that ruins your own enjoyment of a thing by being triggered over a perfectly acceptable stable 30, if the game itself is good, you promptly stop caring about the frames per second. It's not a hill worth dying on.

 

[reinking]

 

[bentanchorbolt]

Friendly reminder that these hacks are the first ones to complain about crunch culture and game delays.

People only care about this stuff when it doesn't actually affect them. If Arkane/MS/Bethesda came out and said they were delaying the game 3 months and it would launch with two modes these same people who are upset about 30fps only at launch would be losing their minds, and if the game came out today with both modes but Jason S wrote an article about crunch at Arkane they would still lose their mind. You can't make anyone happy.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Sorry Gamesradar, but I ain't going back to reading your

clickbait website.

 

[Foilz]

Y'all are the biggest bunch of little crybabies on the planet. Just try the damn game and see if the 30fps difference actually hurts the game in anyway or if you're just a bunch of prima donna's and won't be able to tell diff.

 

[Luigi Mario]

But Jason S wrote an article about crunch at Arkane they would still lose their mind. You can't make anyone happy.

They are very good at acting concerned about stuff like this.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Not defending Redfall, but I notice the writer of the article doesn’t seem to hold this same no 30fps stance in regards to the new Zelda.

Talk the talk or walk the walk.

 

[MikeM]

Some of the finest games ever made ran and run at 30fps. It's not a big deal. Unless you're one of those people that ruins your own enjoyment of a thing by being triggered over a perfectly acceptable stable 30, if the game itself is good, you promptly stop caring about the frames per second. It's not a hill worth dying on.

Some of the best games also ran at 480p, 720p, etc. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t progress in other areas as well.

 

[Imtjnotu]

Bit dramatic. Yes 30fps on a first person shooter sucks but come on bro it ain't the end of gaming lol

 

[Patrick S.]

Some of the finest games ever made ran and run at 30fps. It's not a big deal. Unless you're one of those people that ruins your own enjoyment of a thing by being triggered over a perfectly acceptable stable 30, if the game itself is good, you promptly stop caring about the frames per second. It's not a hill worth dying on.

I can live with 30 fps if the frame times are ok. I prefer 30 fps with clean frame tives over unstable 60 fps.

 

[Gobjuduck]

So he’s not going to play Zelda tears of the kingdom? That’s a 30fps action game on a console. Doubt..

I think redfall can be enjoyed at 30fps. They definitely should get backlash for not optimizing on Xbox though, maybe with time the developers will get faster.

I have a feeling a lot of ps5 and series x games will be mostly 30fps by the end of the generation, they will chase fidelity over performance again.

 

[Carmen Winstead]

Looking forward to 15fps Starfield on the Series S.
Like those good old days with Skyrim on PS3…

 

[Balducci30]

I’m chill with 30 fps if it is justified by some ambitious thing the game is doing in some way. Like I wouldn’t mind if LOU 3 was 30 fps or something - or Starfield. Redfall is weird

 

[Represent.]

christ, this article is everything wrong with modern gaming, journalists, and lack of drive, competition and ambition.

0/10. Would not subscribe.

Now, I need to speak to Redfall directly here: You look awesome

Lmao I hope he isn't talking about graphics. The game does not look awesome. These journalists are ridiculous.

Powerhouses like Sony's Horizon Forbidden West and God of War Ragnarok -

Both cross gen releases. They are not "powerhouses".

I don't think there's any level of graphical fidelity impressive enough to make me willing to go back.

And yet I bet his jaw dropped at all the UE5 tech demos the other day. I bet you want your games to look like that in the future. But screw it, lets just stop graphical progression right here. Hogwarts and Forspoken are good enough.

Just buy a PC and play on low at 500fps.

We've seen loads of nice-looking games this generation already,

Some of us have higher ambitions than "nice-looking". We want NEXT GENERATION GAMING.

Destruction.
Insane Fidelity.
Next Gen physics.
Larger scale battles.
Smarter A.I
Advanced Game design.

Where are the articles about that?

How come NONE of these journalists ever write about that? Why is it always framerate? Like, you can't think of anything else that would enhance your gaming experience more than.. 60fps?

but the true revelation of PS5 and Xbox Series X has been just how fast and snappy everything is.

Not as snappy as mobile games. Next gen is here.

Quick resume, instant loading times, and, yes, high framerates.

Ah yes. high framerate. Next gen is here.

These are the features that have defined the new console generation, not better lighting or antialiasing.

Maybe if you dudes wrote articles calling out the complete lack of advancement in spaces like: Destruction, physics, AI, fidelity, larger scale battles, game design being stuck in the PS360 era, we'd have more to look forward to than fucking framerate and quick loading times.

Please, developers, I'm begging you. If you have to make me choose between Performance Mode and Quality Mode at launch, give me the one that actually makes the game play better.

Let devs make the game they want. Sacrificing everything else in the name of framerate is a stupid thing to do. You'll get a 40fps Performance mode and you'll be fine. Otherwise buy a PC.

 

[Captain Toad]

Y'all are the biggest bunch of little crybabies on the planet. Just try the damn game and see if the 30fps difference actually hurts the game in anyway or if you're just a bunch of prima donna's and won't be able to tell diff.

I find it difficult anyone can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. 60 vs 120, I can understand, but there is no way you can play a game at 60 for 10 minutes, switch it to 30 and think, "hmmm, this is fine".

 

[Gamerguy84]

It would irritate me in the beginning, which would fade. If I was planning on buying it that wouldn't stop me..

One of my favorite games last gen was a 30fps title. Well two, GoW and Driveclub.

Most were but I get it now, I do understand. Having choice is the right way. The best looking ps5 game this gen gives you choice in HFW. It looks amazing in 60 as well as plays like it.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

christ, this article is everything wrong with modern gaming, journalists, and lack of drive, competition and ambition.

0/10. Would not subscribe.



Lmao I hope he isn't talking about graphics. The game does not look awesome. These journalists are ridiculous.

Both cross gen releases. They are not "powerhouses".


And yet I bet his jaw dropped at all the UE5 tech demos the other day. I bet you want your games to look like that in the future. But screw it, lets just stop graphical progression right here. Hogwarts and Forspoken are good enough.

Just buy a PC and play on low at 500fps.


Some of us have higher ambitions than "nice-looking". We want NEXT GENERATION GAMING.

Destruction.
Insane Fidelity.
Next Gen physics.
Larger scale battles.
Smarter A.I
Advanced Game design.

Where are the articles about that?

How come NONE of these journalists ever write about that? Why is it always framerate? Like, you can't think of anything else that would enhance your gaming experience more than.. 60fps?

Not as snappy as mobile games. Next gen is here.


Ah yes. high framerate. Next gen is here.


Maybe if you dudes wrote articles calling out the complete lack of advancement in spaces like: Destruction, physics, AI, fidelity, larger scale battles, game design being stuck in the PS360 era, we'd have more to look forward to than fucking framerate and quick loading times.

Let devs make the game they want. Sacrificing everything else in the name of framerate is a stupid thing to do. You'll get a 40fps Performance mode and you'll be fine. Otherwise buy a PC.

whoa...

 

[Represent.]

whoa...

These articles trigger me

 

[ckaneo]

lol, gonna be in shambles when actual next gen games come out

 

[onQ123]

They just taking advantage of the hot topic

 

[Dr. Suchong]

 

[Robb]

Cant wait for the inevitable “GamesRadar: [Popular game] is 30fps, and that’s okay.” article.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I will play it. Have been planning with my mates for over a year.

But it's a bigger goof up than Halo Infinite. Arkane should clarify the situation as to what's stopping it from getting to 60, and if there will be a patch.

 

[StereoVsn]

I understand having a preference for >30fps, but not playing a game because it's 30 FPS is outrageous as far as I'm concerned. When did we stop playing games because they were good games, and only play them as long as the framerate/resolution was above some arbitrary threshold

We are in 2023. This is 4th generation Xbox console (5th if you count Xbox One X). It's running RDNA 2 APU. An option to allow customers to scale frame rate vs image quality/res should standard.

Situation with 30fps at launch is ridiculous on XSX. I could understand XSS at least.

 

[StereoVsn]

I find it difficult anyone can't tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS. 60 vs 120, I can understand, but there is no way you can play a game at 60 for 10 minutes, switch it to 30 and think, "hmmm, this is fine".

Especially in an action shooter. The ridiculous spin and defense of a lack of a 60fps option is BS.

Arcane's only saving grace here is GamePass since there is probably almost no expectations of actual sales.

 

[Freeman76]

This is good to see. More reputable sites making their feelings known can only be a good thing. Arkane had a really good rep with almost everyone and they killed it with one shit move here. 60fps should be standard at this point.

 

[Fess]

Not defending Redfall, but I notice the writer of the article doesn’t seem to hold this same no 30fps stance in regards to the new Zelda.

Talk the talk or walk the walk.

First person shooter
vs
Third person adventure

These genres don’t get ruined the same way with lower fps. In third person adventures you have character animations and weighty stop and turn movement masking the control issues coming from 30fps. RDR2 is the extreme example where 30fps definitely didn’t ruin the game.
But they’ll still stutter as much if you rotate the camera though and aiming usually sucks which is why I never go with 30fps unless I have to.

 

[Lucifers Beard]

I don’t really care about Redfall and I’m not defending Arkanes decision here.

However, 30fps on console is inevitable at some point unless developers choose to have 60fps from the start of the project. Games become more demanding year on year and the technology within a console doesn’t increase in power. Something has got to give at some point be that graphical prowess or frame rate.

 

[Yoboman]

While this Redfall looks like ass graphically and has no real reason to be 30 FPS, I would say anybody expecting 30 FPS to not start coming back as we leave cross gen is deluding themselves

I'm prepared for Spiderman 2 to potentially be 30 FPS. And Naughty Dogs first fully next gen single player game will most certainly be

 

[Lucifers Beard]

First person shooter
vs
Third person adventure

These genres don’t get ruined the same way with lower fps. In third person adventures you have character animations and weighty stop and turn movement masking the control issues coming from 30fps. RDR2 is the extreme example where 30fps definitely didn’t ruin the game.
But they’ll still stutter as much if you rotate the camera though and aiming usually sucks which is why I never go with 30fps unless I have to.

I played RDR2 on both console and PC and the controls felt like shit on console due to animation input delay and 30fps as a combo. PC was fine and a night and day difference due to 60+fps and M/K.

 

[Yoboman]

christ, this article is everything wrong with modern gaming, journalists, and lack of drive, competition and ambition.

0/10. Would not subscribe.



Lmao I hope he isn't talking about graphics. The game does not look awesome. These journalists are ridiculous.

Both cross gen releases. They are not "powerhouses".


And yet I bet his jaw dropped at all the UE5 tech demos the other day. I bet you want your games to look like that in the future. But screw it, lets just stop graphical progression right here. Hogwarts and Forspoken are good enough.

Just buy a PC and play on low at 500fps.


Some of us have higher ambitions than "nice-looking". We want NEXT GENERATION GAMING.

Destruction.
Insane Fidelity.
Next Gen physics.
Larger scale battles.
Smarter A.I
Advanced Game design.

Where are the articles about that?

How come NONE of these journalists ever write about that? Why is it always framerate? Like, you can't think of anything else that would enhance your gaming experience more than.. 60fps?

Not as snappy as mobile games. Next gen is here.


Ah yes. high framerate. Next gen is here.


Maybe if you dudes wrote articles calling out the complete lack of advancement in spaces like: Destruction, physics, AI, fidelity, larger scale battles, game design being stuck in the PS360 era, we'd have more to look forward to than fucking framerate and quick loading times.

Let devs make the game they want. Sacrificing everything else in the name of framerate is a stupid thing to do. You'll get a 40fps Performance mode and you'll be fine. Otherwise buy a PC.

Digital Foundry ruined graphics discussion, to the point where all people care about is the measurable you can throw on a graph like resolution and frame rate counting

 

[wipeout364]

The only reason we are getting 60 FPS is because games are supporting Xbox one and PS4; so I have some bad news for the dude that wrote the title of the thread. From here on out prepare to be disappointed. People have been asking for dedicated PS5 and Series X games, well here they come with 4K Ray tracing and beautiful 30FPS.

 

[Thebonehead]

However, 30fps on console is inevitable at some point