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Ghost Song Kickstarter - Metroid meets Dark Souls - GAFer made - funded!

Jobbs

Banned
I think what we'll be looking at is supplying a code to backers, but the code can technically be punched in by anyone, and so it'll eventually leak out into the general population -- such that people who are aware of the KS and aware of the game in general will always be able to punch it in.

I may poll the backers later on and ask them what they want in order to put it into better perspective.

The overall intention was to further reward backers, not because, as you say, they are the only ones who can be "true" fans -- Indeed, maybe some backers won't even like the game. That said, the backers are doing me quite a solid by backing me on faith, quite a good amount of time before the game comes out, and the motivation behind coming up with such a reward is to do them a solid back. They did something completely special for me, and I thought it'd be nice to do something in return.
 
The game looks awesome. It just looks like a skill demanding metroid type game with 8-axis and 4 buttons (from which are 2 shoulder buttons) controls.
Besides, the art design also looks fabulous.
 

CTLance

Member
Thanks for the reply, Jobbs.
Just to make it clear, I'm not gonna haunt you or throw a tantrum if the exclusivity stays, it's just, I'm a gaming enthusiast, at least to the point of posting on a video gaming forum.

As such, I feel my fellow gamer should be able to experience the same games I do, unfettered by out-of-game circumstances such as region or timing. If your game turns out to be a timeless classic this applies all the more.

That said, if you can do it without much work on your part I'd suggest you start a poll. Makes things much easier if you have hard facts under your belt - and helps deflect the eventual blame.

After all, I am fully aware I may not be in the majority on this issue. I may be part of a vocal minority for all I know.
Or you could just make the special forms accesible without being a backer, just way harder to get.
That works too. Just as long as some poor bastard doesn't have to grind bugified Zombies for 300 hours. I mean, it needs to be reasonable.
;) 30 hours per unlock should be OK. ;)
 

Jobbs

Banned
The game looks awesome. It just looks like a skill demanding metroid type game with 8-axis and 4 buttons (from which are 2 shoulder buttons) controls.
Besides, the art design also looks fabulous.

thanks. I don't remember if I've mentioned this or not, but the gameplay/asthetics will all be receiving a makeover/retooling as the game is rebuilt in the new engine, and one thing I plan to test is the inclusion of "aim mode". In other words, the normal gameplay will let you run around and aim in 8 directions by pressing the direction, as one would expect. But there would be a button you can hold down which will plant you on the ground (so you can't walk or jump while doing this) and while planted, you can free-aim with the analog stick with finer precision than the normal 8 ways.

The inclusion of this would allow us to design certain aspects of gameplay (ie, you have to shoot something exactly in the right spot for X to happen) that we couldn't otherwise, while still retaining our overall nuts and bolts 8 way directional gameplay feel. In the context of the game it makes sense as well, because you *can't* fine tune your aiming while running and jumping. You need to plant your feet and be steady if you want that fine aiming, much like in real life.
 

CTLance

Member
Might introduce balancing issues when firing range and enemy aggro/retaliation range do not match up, but sounds nifty. Looking forward to how this will play out.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Might introduce balancing issues when firing range and enemy aggro/retaliation range do not match up, but sounds nifty. Looking forward to how this will play out.

I'm not sure what you mean about firing ranage and aggro range. the way the game works now is your bullets won't hit anything that's more than just a bit off screen. the bullets despawn shortly after leaving the screen.
 

Bit-Bit

Member
Or you could just make the special forms accesible without being a backer, just way harder to get.

I like this idea.

Have the codes broken up in the game. Then when people find all of the codes, they can write it down and enter it in to unlock stuff.
 

Gbraga

Member
I like this idea.

Have the codes broken up in the game. Then when people find all of the codes, they can write it down and enter it in to unlock stuff.

This is pretty neat, and I wouldn't use my Kickstarter code at all because it sounds way more fun this way :p
 

F!ReW!Re

Member
Just found out about this game; when I saw the video I backed it immediately.
Awesome job dude!

Can't wait to get my hands on it!
 

AriEX2

Member
Man! Watching the Kickstarter for this game made me so excited that I went and made this little gif:

ari_metroid_zps109c5e2c.gif


Nintendo should really just pay Jobbs to make a proper 2D Super Metroid sequel. He's certainly doing a better job of it than anything they've been doing.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Man! Watching the Kickstarter for this game made me so excited that I went and made this little gif:

ari_metroid_zps109c5e2c.gif


Nintendo should really just pay Jobbs to make a proper 2D Super Metroid sequel. He's certainly doing a better job of it than anything they've been doing.

wow, did you draw that all completely from scratch? if so, that's rather amazing. do tell.

Just found out about this game; when I saw the video I backed it immediately.
Awesome job dude!

Can't wait to get my hands on it!

thanks you!

Backed this but sadly looks like the WiiU goal won't be hit :( Good luck with this project though and good to see it going ahead.

as I keep saying, the final days of a campaign can be completely unpredictable, so don't stick the nails in me yet. that said, if it doesn't meet the goal, I strongly desire and anticipate making it onto console(s). I just won't have the burden of promising or rushing it, if the goal is not met.
 

AriEX2

Member
wow, did you draw that all completely from scratch? if so, that's rather amazing. do tell.

Hey thanks! Yeah from scratch. Though its a pretty small image. Sub HD i think. I just really wanted to make a gif of something after watching all the great Ghost Song ones in the thread.
 
Ghost Song looks amazing and I will definitely get it on the PC... though i'd replace the $60,000 WiiU goal with PS4/Vita version. Would love to get some metroid'esq gameplay on the Vita while falling asleep at night.

The art direction is phenomenal... btw
The game really looks gorgeous.
 

canocha

Member
Man! Watching the Kickstarter for this game made me so excited that I went and made this little gif:

ari_metroid_zps109c5e2c.gif


Nintendo should really just pay Jobbs to make a proper 2D Super Metroid sequel. He's certainly doing a better job of it than anything they've been doing.

Hey Jobbs hire this guy!

First kickstater i will suport! I want that Wii U version!
 
This really does look great. The gameplay video sold me. The beta tier says that it comes with all previous rewards - I assume that it doesn't come with the three pack, correct?
 

CTLance

Member
Amazing Metroid GIF. This thread keeps on giving.
I'm not sure what you mean about firing range and aggro range. the way the game works now is your bullets won't hit anything that's more than just a bit off screen. the bullets despawn shortly after leaving the screen.
I mean it like this:
The PC stands on an elevation. Below it stands the enemy, outside of the traditional 45° arcs but inside the "free-firing" area.
Now, unless the enemy has a ranged "free-firing" attack, then the PC can obliterate and thus farm the enemy with no fear of retaliation. Even if the enemy can fly, climb or jump to the PC the player will be able to deliver a constant stream of damage while the enemy approaches. If you designed the encounter around that, all is well. If not, ...
Especially if the PC has special ammo, is ghost-boosted or has enough time to charge the initial shot this might be a b*tch to balance since it'd mean energy tanks, ammo, whatever else the enemy drops will become far more common, at a low risk to the player.

If the enemy fires projectiles at fixed arcs like the spiny mutant thing from your trailer, then there is a space where the PC can stand and hit the mutant without being hit in return unless the ground is completely even and no platforms are available.

If the enemy does not react to damage by charging the PC, but only if the PC gets "within aggro range" then the PC can just kill the enemy from outside that aggro range. You have played Metroid games, I gather. Imagine Shriekbats hanging off the ceiling. In 2D, the only way to attack them was go below them and shoot them while they fall towards you (or GTFO quickly).
Going back to Ghost song: Since 45° attacks are possible you can do some "strafing runs" from outside the shriekbats "aggro range" to attack it, but if you can plant yourself anywhere near you can just conveniently murderize it without danger to your person. Even if it fell upon receiving damage it would not pose a threat at all. It would likely be shot to sh*t while falling down anyway.
Or enemies that jump as a means of locomotion. Annoying to hit and possibly a minor threat with fixed-arc firing, but a cakewalk with the free aiming mode.

Another thing is if the PC is stuck in a pit around the PC's height and enemies are walking around above. The fixed arc player will have to jump or do strafing runs. Jumping would mean exposing the PC to danger, forcing him upwards through one-way walls or generally alert the enemies if they do LOS aggro. Strafing runs against retaliating enemies would at least allow you to pick your fights by drawing one enemy into the pit at a time. With free targeting the PC can just scooch back from the walls a bit and annihilate all enemies.
This also applies to giant grub bug thing. It would need a serious HP boost with free-range firing enabled. Run away a bit, aim at eye, lay into the bug, repeat until bug is dead. Booring. Compared to the excitement of hopping around and delivering only a handful of shots into the eye every time the entire encounter plays out differently. Assuming the eye is a weak spot, of course.

Advanced players will likely master planting themselves for a fraction of a second and delivering a short burst of damage without losing too much overall mobility. "Normal" players will struggle with this, making encounter design a hairy mess to balance.

Basically, you'll allow the players to snipe. They can deliver damage to specific targets regardless of their movement with nearly no misses, leading to higher damage throughput or at the very least a "free" first high damage attack. This will complicate the design for you and lead to almost all enemies requiring a good amount of mobility and/or attacks with accompanying AI tweaks.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Hey thanks! Yeah from scratch. Though its a pretty small image. Sub HD i think. I just really wanted to make a gif of something after watching all the great Ghost Song ones in the thread.

lovely work, do you have a website or somethin' with other stuff of yours on it?

X meets Dark Souls is the new way to hype your game.

To be fair, I was thinking of taking some cues from Souls games for my metroidvania since well before they were as ubiquitous as they are. I feel like being an early fan of these games entitles me to it. :)

This really does look great. The gameplay video sold me. The beta tier says that it comes with all previous rewards - I assume that it doesn't come with the three pack, correct?

the way I'm thinking is anyone who pledges $33 or above will get 3 copies, or in the case of the really high tiers, even more than 3 copies.

what this will mean, in a practical sense, 3 keys for the game on any service it appears like steam or similar (though I should note that the eshop is handled differently, since each eshop key would cost me several dollars out of pocket). I'm not yet promising/announcing any particular service, but I can say that things like steam and GOG are looking pretty good. I've heard from GOG, and in the case of Steam, I've heard from several different parties that could present me with opportunities to get onto Steam. I am announcing nothing right now but rest assured I would never compromise on the game itself or control over its content.
 
Man! Watching the Kickstarter for this game made me so excited that I went and made this little gif:

ari_metroid_zps109c5e2c.gif


Nintendo should really just pay Jobbs to make a proper 2D Super Metroid sequel. He's certainly doing a better job of it than anything they've been doing.

That is amazing, I need to see more of your work
 
Wow this game looks gorgeous! Shahid once wanted a revival of the Turrican franchise on the Vita, this is as close as it gets, tweeting him right away...although I think he's on vacation.
 

Jobbs

Banned
I mean it like this:

You have good thoughts, and ultimately the game will be tested and balanced in a way that I think is challenging and rewarding. As long as we keep the original overall goals in mind to guide the process it should turn out fine. Like I said, I plan to *test* the feature. :)
 

shaowebb

Member
This game looks awesome. Plus its title card reminded me of a very dear friend of mine given its layout.

6IoVas0.jpg


I'll be backing this after I get paid tonight.
 

Jobbs

Banned
This game looks awesome. Plus its title card reminded me of a very dear friend of mine given its layout.

6IoVas0.jpg


I'll be backing this after I get paid tonight.

thanks :D

this is the original composition of this image, as a promotional image, which I liked better.

gsongcover.jpg


it's more interesting, IMO, and makes the moon, lorian 5, seem more isolated and forboding. when I decided to use this image in the KS video and stuff I had to change its composition a bit, obviously, but I think this looks cooler.
 
If you already answered this, I'm sorry... but can you explain the Dark Souls influence? Dark Souls and Metroid are two of my favorite games, so naturally I'm excited.
 
Game looks really cool, but unfortunately I can't give without the guarantee of it being on Nintendo as I won't be able to play it unless it is. If it gets pretty close I will though!
 

AriEX2

Member
lovely work, do you have a website or somethin' with other stuff of yours on it?

That is amazing, I need to see more of your work

Woah! Thanks so much guys. I do have a website! Though I don't work in games much these days. Mostly animation for films and ads:

http://www.mechanicalapple.com

Did happen to make a game on the weekend though. Was for the Ludum Dare. Link here if you're interested. Woulda loved to do something in this sort of style, but 48 hours'n all that:

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/624136
 

iddqd

Member

Jobbs

Banned
yeah, I watched all three videos, and I'm genuinely touched and blown away. inspiring! makes me think I should be doing a lot more with my own art, but I have a lot to learn (particularly about animation).

btw, I animate in photoshop too, thought I was alone.
 

AriEX2

Member
yeah, I watched all three videos, and I'm genuinely touched and blown away. inspiring! makes me think I should be doing a lot more with my own art, but I have a lot to learn (particularly about animation).

btw, I animate in photoshop too, thought I was alone.

All the cool kids animate in Photoshop these days! Actually its starting to become pretty popular. There still aren't a great deal of resources out there showing how to use the tools well, but man! Its just so simple and quick. I really love it, and it looks like your putting it to great effect in Ghost Song.
 

Clott

Member
I think there is too much white knighting involving the inclusion of everyone, it's really not that big of a deal to the people excluded, the average guy that sees this on steam will have no idea anyway, it's kind of like the beta only items in MMO's, I don't whine about the exclusive t shirt/armor, it's just the art of rewarding/participating early.
 

Noogy

Member
Man! Watching the Kickstarter for this game made me so excited that I went and made this little gif:

ari_metroid_zps109c5e2c.gif


Nintendo should really just pay Jobbs to make a proper 2D Super Metroid sequel. He's certainly doing a better job of it than anything they've been doing.

Image is incredibly rad, and I agree. Let's just give Jobbs the IP already.
 

nillapuddin

Member
As a backer, I would ofcourse love to have a special memento, but I believe the absolute extent of it should be in cosmetics

Ideas that are most alluring to me would be optional alternate colors of the protagonist and or pet, or alt menu screen art

However, anything that is "exclusive" should be optional so that we can choose to participate just as anyone else would, with the choice to don (an orange cape) or participate in any unique functions
 

SpokkX

Member
First kickstarter i am really tempted to back

Want the wiiu version though and the stretch goal seems unreachable now..?

Also LOVE that Metroid image!
 

Jobbs

Banned
the game looks very awesome and the music lovely! any chance at all that we get this on nintendo 3DS?

From what Roger was telling me, Unity doesn't run on 3DS, so it would definitely take more work than other consoles. That said, nothing is impossible down the road.

As a backer, I would ofcourse love to have a special memento, but I believe the absolute extent of it should be in cosmetics

Ideas that are most alluring to me would be optional alternate colors of the protagonist and or pet, or alt menu screen art

However, anything that is "exclusive" should be optional so that we can choose to participate just as anyone else would, with the choice to don (an orange cape) or participate in any unique functions

It will be optional and mainly cosmetic with no real substantive impact on gameplay. Like I said, the new forms will be similar functionally to other forms already in the game, they'll just be a new flavor.

First kickstarter i am really tempted to back

Want the wiiu version though and the stretch goal seems unreachable now..?

I'm loathe to promise any ports, especially before the game's even done, which is why the Wii U goal was set pretty conservatively to begin with. That said, getting it on consoles such as Wii U is a great aspiration of mine and I think there's a good shot at it happening, it just may not be as immediate. In terms of my own tastes, I really love Wii U, I think it's so cool with the controller, and it'd tickle me pink to have my own game on there. I also would love for my friends and family to be able to play my game on a console from the couch or whatever -- most of them favor console gaming.

Image is incredibly rad, and I agree. Let's just give Jobbs the IP already.

if only. :)
 

fallagin

Member
Finally paid into the pool, cant wait for the release :D

Edit: actually this is my first kickstarter ive backed, just goes to show how compelling this looks.
 

shaowebb

Member
All the cool kids animate in Photoshop these days! Actually its starting to become pretty popular. There still aren't a great deal of resources out there showing how to use the tools well, but man! Its just so simple and quick. I really love it, and it looks like your putting it to great effect in Ghost Song.

Yeah, ever since timelines and animation became a part of photoshop a lot of folks have preferred using it for animating. Thing is it is prone to render crashes so I highly recommend getting after effects after you do all your frame work in photoshop so that you can shoot your frames into it for the rendering to be done quickly and risk free. Plus since you then gain all the nifty post production tools of After Effects you can do things like brush in lighting, timeline fade ins and out of various shadows and even cheese it when applicable and timeline scale objects to make them get smaller in the distance as they ride away.

The old ways are best but as hannah barbara proved if you can cut a corner to stay in business it may just save your business. Just dont cut yourself too deeply by trying to skip things in after effects ;)

Neogaf Animator party <3
 

nillapuddin

Member
It will be optional and mainly cosmetic with no real substantive impact on gameplay. Like I said, the new forms will be similar functionally to other forms already in the game, they'll just be a new flavor.

Yeah I think everything you described sounds completely fine

Perhaps for subsequent playthroughs you can pile on cosmetics, different colors for the protagonist in 2nd playthroughs (or NG+) would be a fantastic nod to backers and completionists.

I dont know how many options I would want off the bat, because Id like to experience the game first as you envisioned it, and once Ive seen that from start to finish, Id love to experiment and mess around
 

Roo

Member
Woah!
Never saw this thread.
It looks beautiful. It's like.. the 2D Metroid sequel we needed and were waiting for.
Amazing work, seriously. I don't have the means to back up the game right now but if you reach your Wii U version goal I will buy it gladly.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Last week. Hope to see a nice boost these days. Do you have more videos?

This is something I've wrestled with a bit. I could potentially do more videos and show brand new stuff, but the choice would be -- Either show some warts (I hate showing warts, my approach is to only show stuff in its best light) or go back and work on the old game more, which I am loath to do. when I work on the game I'd prefer to work on the new rebuild.

Once we have cool new high res stuff to show of the game I'm sure we'll give the backers a look at it and that'll be more exciting than just seeing more stuff from the old flash game. The old game is cool, I am proud of what I made, but the new game will have some tweaks and rethinking of certain asthetic/mechanical elements -- And that's where my head is now. I want to move forward.
 
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