Paz gets tortured by the bad guys and they put a bomb inside her. When Snake saves her, they open her up to get it out (and we get to see every detail), but it turns out there was another one in her vagina. When she wakes up she tells them "there's another one, in my...", jumps off the helicopter and blows up. You can also find a recording of her and Chico being tortured, where Chico is forced to have sex with her. He is 13 by the way.
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Giant Bomb #7 | Hey There, Small Business Owner!
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Jimmyfenix
Member
Skullface forced Chico to have sex with Paz, She also got gang raped. A bomb is placed in her stomach and is taken out at the end cutscene only to find out Skullface put a bomb in her vagina. Then Paz decides to jump put the helicopter and explode.
Who would have guessed Metal Gear and South Park would use similar plot lines?
mambadragon
Banned
And it sounds like I'm done with Metal Gear
NumberThree
Member
Well that's fucked up.
Backfoggen
Banned
Good thing I only played that hour of main story and that's it.
Kojima is just not the guy and MGS not the series for topics like this.
Mechanized
Member
Classless and disgusting. Now if that's what happens to a character like Paz, just wait, just fucking wait for what happens to Quiet. I'm sure that will be mature and insightful.
ShaggsMagoo
Member
I had that realization as well after Patrick's tweet about Ground Zeroes. I do consider it somewhat interesting that it is not being brought up more.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Well alright then. Guess we can all look forward to the portrayal of Quiet now. Seriously Kojima?
Isn't it rumoured that Quiet wears what she wears cause she got raped in that outfit? Christ I hope that's not true, I'm kinda starting to loose interest in that game
Wow. Fucking hell if that's true. Get your rape outfit ready ladies, Kojima wants cosplay!
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Take that with a huge grain of salt though, I don't even remember where I heard that rumour so it might be 100% BS
God forbid developers try to shift tone or do something different.
BUNTING1243
Banned
The amount of gross that whole subplot in Ground Zeroes is has made me super worried about Phantom Pain. I don't know what video game developer could put themes like that into a game without it being disgusting but I know Kojima is furthest away from being that person.
Earn what? Why are you people so afraid of
rape being in a video game?
Kojima doesn't have to earn anything.
This isn't even the first time
rape has been in MGS. Ocelot to raped Meryl in MGS 1.
Jimmyfenix
Member
I wonder how far Kojima will go for TPP but i will be getting the game regardless.
BUNTING1243
Banned
Seriously? Because it's a super delicate subject that's handled in the absolute worse way possible and just comes off as really gross.
I'm not saying that no video game can have
rape
It basically amounts to
a Skelator stand in shoving a bomb up a girl's vagina after he makes her have sex with a thirteen year old boy and gangrapes her. With sound effects.
sexual violence
funkystudent
Member
I think it would be perfectly reasonable for Quiet to wear that outfit for one scene as she was forced to wear it to demean her or something during that torture scene shown in the E3 trailer and then after she is rescued or escapes she puts on some people clothes.
Not gonna happen though. Even if it did its extra fucked up that Konami will be selling action figures of it.
I dont think they will do anything that dark with that character. Just some bullshit "she needs to be nearly naked because she gets energy from the sun and if she wears pants she will die"
Not gonna happen though. Even if it did its extra fucked up that Konami will be selling action figures of it.
I dont think they will do anything that dark with that character. Just some bullshit "she needs to be nearly naked because she gets energy from the sun and if she wears pants she will die"
But murder, torture and child soldiers are fine?
And why are we taking about the past games? The way MGS V handles the subject is fine. It doesn't belittle or make fun of it, it takes it extremely seriously.
EvilKatarn
Member
Sad I clicked those spoilers, sounds like a strong moment I would've liked to experience firsthand.
I also liked Peace Walker before I got stuck on one of the later missions (base escape where stealth pretty much out of the question). Patrick loudly snoring over the Peace Walker talk in last week's podcast sure was funny ha ha. Sets a good tone for how seriously I should take his opinions on Metal Gear.
Not even that big of a Metal Gear fan. Just recently beat 1 and 3 for the first time and will get onto 2 and 4 when I can.
I also liked Peace Walker before I got stuck on one of the later missions (base escape where stealth pretty much out of the question). Patrick loudly snoring over the Peace Walker talk in last week's podcast sure was funny ha ha. Sets a good tone for how seriously I should take his opinions on Metal Gear.
Not even that big of a Metal Gear fan. Just recently beat 1 and 3 for the first time and will get onto 2 and 4 when I can.
Yeah, handling of a subject like that in a story is a delicate balance. The best way for me to articulate how it's handled in GZ is akin to torture porn. Gratuitous for the sake of being shocking and uncomfortable.
It's really not, that's the problem.
Ventilaator
Banned
The problem isn't that there's
rape
"And then they put a bomb up her vagina and then she explodes!"
Because that's just gross.
Chance Hale
Member
One can certainly judge Kojima's ability to sensitively handle such subjects but MGS for better or worse has always touched on heavy topics such as child soldiers, wartime atrocities, and so on. Rape is a pretty common wartime offense after all.
bomb silliness aside, Ground Zeroes's depiction of rape as a tool of intimidation was decidedly uncamp and straight-faced. None of Kojima's worst tendencies were evident and it wasn't just "grimdark" Although one will certainly have to judge the aftermath of such things are handled in the Phantom Pain.
Vagina
EmCeeGramr
Member
Yeah man I totally thought it was handled extremely well the way that
a burn victim named SKULL FACE (because his face looks like a skull) pontificates about war in a pretentious manner and then fists a bomb up a lady's vagina so that her vagina can blow up a super spy named Big Boss.
Also 90% of this is in bonus audio tapes that you find as a reward.
Misterinenja
Member
Kojima has certainly far better track record in having rough and sensitive stuff in his games than say someone like Ken Levine.
He actually has the ability to make something interesting of it.
He actually has the ability to make something interesting of it.
BUNTING1243
Banned
I honestly think we played different games and listened to different audio logs. I haven't seen anyone else make the argument that the way it handles the subject is "fine". Did you black out during the whole part where
a character called SKULLFACE shoved a bomb up a girls vagina while laughing about how "it's somewhere they'd never look. Or the part where he makes a thirteen year old boy rape her?
It could take the subject as seriously as it wants, but when it's preceded and followed by weird goofy shit, Kojima just doesn't earn it.
This is a very poor argument; "well he's better than this other guy that handles serious subjects in games, so why not!"
Chance Hale
Member
Ground Zeroes doesn't have any goofy elements, although I'm sure supernatural elements will make their way back into the Phantom Pain. The silliest thing about the game would be SKULLFACE but silly nicknames for terrorists is hardly a fictional thing(see Carlos the Jackal)
brianmcdoogle
Member
As others have said, the issue isn't the inclusion of
in the game, but the manner in which it is included. Simply praising the game or Kojima for including such a thing is a lame argument, and trying to paint those that oppose the inclusion as somehow prudish is baseless
.
Either way, you guys are missing out on the spoiler thread for the game, since now they've convinced themselves that
which I hope turns out true just so we can witness Jeff have a meltdown at the stupidity.
rape
and the kind of reductive argument you'd expect Patrick to write about since it skirts the more complex issues in favor for setting up a simple strawman
Either way, you guys are missing out on the spoiler thread for the game, since now they've convinced themselves that
CHICO IS QUIET!!!
To be fair, Metal Gear always had weird subplots. The Beauties in MGS4 had fucked up backstories, there was the creepy stuff with Volgin and Raikov, Otacon fucking his stepmom, Meryl getting raped, I mean it's not exactly a first for Kojima.
The difference is, that information was given through dialogue. You never saw Otacon fuck EE's mom, you never saw Meryl get raped, you never saw Volgin and Raikov going at it. Ground Zeroes has like 10 minutes of Skull Face torturing kids. I didn't mind it as much as most people seem to, but it absolutely came across as unnecessary and tasteless.
I applaud anyone who tries to deal with heavier subjects in video games. It's something that needs to happen more often if the medium is to mature, but this is not the way to do it.
The difference is, that information was given through dialogue. You never saw Otacon fuck EE's mom, you never saw Meryl get raped, you never saw Volgin and Raikov going at it. Ground Zeroes has like 10 minutes of Skull Face torturing kids. I didn't mind it as much as most people seem to, but it absolutely came across as unnecessary and tasteless.
I applaud anyone who tries to deal with heavier subjects in video games. It's something that needs to happen more often if the medium is to mature, but this is not the way to do it.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Oh god yes make it happen Kojima!
Misterinenja
Member
Actually there are no rules written why you couldn't have J-pop dance sequences, goofy characters and serious war crimes portrayed in the same story besides in your personal cultural sensibilities. You don't have to "earn it" by by being grim in every way possible.
That actually brings me to the point that I really hope Phantom Pain doesn't drop it's heritage of colorful storytelling quirks and wide range of emotions portrayed completely for being an awkward grimdark HBO war drama the video game. Hopefully Kojima finds a way to do a slight tonal shift without being too try-hard (which would absolutely fall flat on its face).
I personally find Ground Zeroes disappointing so I'm not here defending the game.
BUNTING1243
Banned
Except for the fact that he's literally a walking burn victim and basically a physical stand in for the Joker. Pretty sure Carlos the Jackal was just a dude.
And yeah, it's a pretty goofy game at parts. I'm not saying it is all the time, but having a character scream that the enemy "played us like a fiddle!" right before the
bomb forcibly inserted into someone's vagina explodes
EvilKatarn
Member
It honestly seems like most of you are dead set on anything written by Kojima being stupid.
Case in point.
BUNTING1243
Banned
Oh man that's gonna happen isn't it.
I'm interested to hear why you think that. Do you think all the arguments against these sequences are baseless?
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
We're dead set on thinking it's stupid or he's dead set on making it stupid? Have you ever played metal gear solid before?
He doesn't exactly do a lot to avoid that sentiment.
For me the arguments boil down to
"sexual assault? Unacceptable." Notice how many people are complaining about the bomb shoved in her gut? But somehow a bomb shoved in her vagina is so much worse.
Chance Hale
Member
Fair enough about the burn victim bit, don't think there are many historical cases of such things. MGS has always been a weird mix of supernatural, comic esqe elements contrasted against very real-world issues such as child-soldiers and other war atrocities. In Ground Zeroes I felt Kojima for the first time kept it very straight faced
and the rape depicted used was clearly supposed to replicate real world cases of rape as an intimidation/torture tactic. I think the vagina bomb does do the whole thing some disservice but it's really not just tortureshock porn/lol kid rape
The played like a fiddle line was just poorly delivered and I'm not sure why it was kept in. I hope that Kojima really focuses on vocal performances for the Phantom Pain as things like that bring the quality of the project down, especially when he's clearly attempting to meld in real world issues in a much more serious manner.
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