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[oddworld18]

Cirekiller -

I've been in this situation - on both sides, actually (but that's not entirely relevant to this discussion).

We never got together and it took two years of purposefully barely speaking to heal the relationship - but never into a relationship. I consider her one of my best friends now, and I'm happy in a long-term relationship with another girl.

Some things are definitely worth fighting for, but fighting requires action. If you really want to put your trust in her - and I don't think it's inherently a bad idea - you probably need to lay it all out. You can't wait for her to make a choice, because people will always take the path of least resistance.

Find out why she hasn't left him - through her or through her friends - because that should give you a better idea what to do next. But really, clearly realize that it's going to be a shadow over whatever future you have with her.

 

[dskillzhtown]

Not to shit on dskillz's post, but just remember Cirekiller, most times you are the rule rather than the exception. Anecdotal evidence is a killer in these situations because they inflate the odds and help you justify what you know you probably shouldn't be doing.

Just because one person lived to tell the story of how they jumped off a cliff and lived, there are thousands of other people who died doing it. One person out of thousands means your odds are already terrible. You can take the risk, sure, but you're pretty much guaranteed to end up hurting later.

I think in my post I presented two sides of what could happen. Alot of the advice here gives the moral high ground extreme. I try to give some real-life shades of gray. If she is spending all her time with him and not with her bf, then there could be something in the future for them, maybe not. But to totally dismiss that chance is being naive. I am not saying I know what will/is happening in this situation, but I am saying that there is a chance that things could work out for the best for the two of them.

How can you be sure he hasn't cheated on this woman? I'm sure you found out he was cheating on the first wife only after the fact? I wouldn't be able to trust anyone like that to be honest. I wouldn't be able to be on the other side of something as horrible as that as well. This is assuming that the relationship with the one being cheated on is a good one.

The relationship he was in wasn't a good one. He was miserable and now he is happy with his new wife. But in your mind, the honorable thing would have been to stick it out and let the true love of his life walk on by so he can be honorable. Life isn't a fairy tale and at times you have to divert off the beaten track to find your happiness.

Just my opinion.

 

[TurboLibre]

The relationship he was in wasn't a good one. He was miserable and now he is happy with his new wife. But in your mind, the honorable thing would have been to stick it out and let the true love of his life walk on by so he can be honorable. Life isn't a fairy tale and at times you have to divert off the beaten track to find your happiness.

Just my opinion.

What? The honorable thing would have been to leave his broken relationship when he was planning to get involved with another person.

 

[Neki]

I think in my post I presented two sides of what could happen. Alot of the advice here gives the moral high ground extreme. I try to give some real-life shades of gray. If she is spending all her time with him and not with her bf, then there could be something in the future for them, maybe not. But to totally dismiss that chance is being naive. I am not saying I know what will/is happening in this situation, but I am saying that there is a chance that things could work out for the best for the two of them.





The relationship he was in wasn't a good one. He was miserable and now he is happy with his new wife. But in your mind, the honorable thing would have been to stick it out and let the true love of his life walk on by so he can be honorable. Life isn't a fairy tale and at times you have to divert off the beaten track to find your happiness.

Just my opinion.

The honourable thing would have to not cheat or if not possible, instead divorce his relationship earlier instead of letting it go on for two years. An affair for two years is an awfully long time. If you plan on cheating/seeing another person, how about you give some consideration to your significant other and divorce them, because obviously, you are no longer committed to them if you seriously consider having an affair.

 

[msv]

@dskillz

What? The honorable thing would have been to leave his broken relationship when he was planning to get involved with another person.

This. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[JumpJeff84]

I agree with Skillz.

Nothing in life is black and white. Especially in matters of love. Relationships that spring out of adultery can blossom into healthy ones. It happens. Shit is complicated.

All you guys who come with this 'Cheating is the worst thing ever! No one should ever cheat under any circumstances ever!' should wake the fuck up and realize that people are complicated. Don't be so naive.

In my experience, people with this moral high ground when it comes to cheating are usually the insecure ones- they rail so hard against it because they themselves are victims of adultery, or at least potential ones.

But seperate your own low self-esteem from the situation and realize that life and love is a wee bit more nuanced than that.....

 

[Russell]

By age 23, more than 90 percent are sexually experienced.

It's really hard to put into words how much that above quote really pisses the flying fuck out of me. A super deep intense feeling of anger and jealousy. It's like a fucking slap in the face.

 

[dskillzhtown]

The honourable thing would have to not cheat or if not possible, instead divorce his relationship earlier instead of letting it go on for two years. An affair for two years is an awfully long time. If you plan on cheating/seeing another person, how about you give some consideration to your significant other and divorce them, because obviously, you are no longer committed to them if you seriously consider having an affair.

I guess you missed the part where he got divorced.

Again, I expect in this thread to talk about in absolutes and condemning any wrong decisions. I am speaking from real-life, not trying to judge. In the end, he is in a marriage that is great for him and his ex-wife is married and happy as well. Not that has anything to do with what is going on in this thread.

That is the problem with alot of the advice given in this thread. People are talking in moral absolutes and not taking real-life and human nature into account. In no part did I say my bro-in-law did the absolute right thing, I presented an account of how a situation that worked out, period.

I presented the situation because the guy asking the question was getting reactions that completely ignored the fact that he could end up happy with the girl in the end.

 

[Neki]

I guess you missed the part where he got divorced.

Again, I expect in this thread to talk about in absolutes and condemning any wrong decisions. I am speaking from real-life, not trying to judge. In the end, he is in a marriage that is great for him and his ex-wife is married and happy as well. Not that has anything to do with what is going on in this thread.

That is the problem with alot of the advice given in this thread. People are talking in moral absolutes and not taking real-life and human nature into account. In no part did I say my bro-in-law did the absolute right thing, I presented an account of how a situation that worked out, period.

I presented the situation because the guy asking the question was getting reactions that completely ignored the fact that he could end up happy with the girl in the end.

After two years.

 

[dskillzhtown]

After two years.

And? You act like he didn't get divorced at all and still cheating. So exactly what is the acceptable timeframe for you so that you can approve? 6 weeks? 2 days? What about 3 months?

To me, what matters is that everyone involved is now happy with who they should have been with. But you want to focus on exactly how they got there. So it is better to do the absolute 'right' thing in life rather than be happy? You guys give your 'by the good book' advice, and I will continue to give real-world advice, agreed?

Whoomp, I agree 100%.

 

[Neki]

I agree with Skillz.

Nothing in life is black and white. Especially in matters of love. Relationships that spring out of adultery can blossom into healthy ones. It happens. Shit is complicated.

All you guys who come with this 'Cheating is the worst thing ever! No one should ever cheat under any circumstances ever!' should wake the fuck up and realize that people are complicated. Don't be so naive.

In my experience, people with this moral high ground when it comes to cheating are usually the insecure ones- they rail so hard against it because they themselves are victims of adultery, or at least potential ones.

But seperate your own low self-esteem from the situation and realize that life and love is a wee bit more nuanced than that.....

I don't disagree, it is possible, but it's always been the exception and not the rule. And yes, call people who take the morale high ground insecure, that really adds credibility to your argument.

 

[Neki]

And? You act like he didn't get divorced at all and still cheating. So exactly what is the acceptable timeframe for you so that you can approve? 6 weeks? 2 days? What about 3 months?

To me, what matters is that everyone involved is now happy with who they should have been with. But you want to focus on exactly how they got there. So it is better to do the absolute 'right' thing in life rather than be happy? You guys give your 'by the good book' advice, and I will continue to give real-world advice, agreed?

Whoomp, I agree 100%.

There is no acceptable timeframe for cheating, if you want to cheat, how about you tell your SO first, or divorce her before you do it. Why would you want to be in a relationship you clearly don't care about? I don't get that. Life is clearly shades of gray, but this is an issue you can easily control in your life.

 

[TurboLibre]

I agree with Skillz.

Nothing in life is black and white. Especially in matters of love. Relationships that spring out of adultery can blossom into healthy ones. It happens. Shit is complicated.

All you guys who come with this 'Cheating is the worst thing ever! No one should ever cheat under any circumstances ever!' should wake the fuck up and realize that people are complicated. Don't be so naive.

People are not complicated, they're just trying to have their cake and eat it too. They don't have the balls to end (or fix) their unhappy relationship so they just try to cope with it by picking up tail on the side. Cheaters are the insecure ones because they can't seem to let go of something they no longer have and instead mask the problems by starting something new with another person, damaging their spouse in the process.

 

[dskillzhtown]

People are not complicated, they're just trying to have their cake and eat it too. They don't have the balls to end (or fix) their unhappy relationship so they just try to cope with it by picking up tail on the side. Cheaters are the insecure ones because they can't seem to let go of something they no longer have and instead mask the problems by starting something new with another person, damaging their spouse in the process.

That line voids the rest of your post. You don't think people are complicated? Hell, being a manager and dealing with personailties is complicated.

Anyway, I am done. No need to muck up this thread with a debate where neither side is going to back down. I feel like Whoomp, I prefer to deal in reality than absolutes.

 

[TurboLibre]

That line voids the rest of your post.

I think you just proved my point.

 

[msv]

I agree with Skillz.

Nothing in life is black and white. Especially in matters of love. Relationships that spring out of adultery can blossom into healthy ones. It happens. Shit is complicated.

All you guys who come with this 'Cheating is the worst thing ever! No one should ever cheat under any circumstances ever!' should wake the fuck up and realize that people are complicated. Don't be so naive.

The hell are you on about? I didn't call cheating the worst thing ever, but deceiving someone like that for two whole years is a pretty horrible thing to do to someone. And of course there are situations where this happens. There are also situations in which people beat up, steal from, humiliate etc., people. Sure there can be reasons for it, but what has that to do with the fact that the action itself is right or wrong? And what does it have to do with naivety? You're making no sense.

 

[JumpJeff84]

Question for TKawsome and Ultimoo:

Real Talk...how old are you guys? How many relationships have you been in? How many women have you slept with? How many women have you kissed?

Not trying to lash out at you guys here, just curious. My guess is that such myopic views on human love and sexuality correlate directly with a lack of 'real world' experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I have a feeling you guys are maybe a little green in the area of women....

 

[Neki]

That line voids the rest of your post. You don't think people are complicated? Hell, being a manager and dealing with personailties is complicated.

Anyway, I am done. No need to muck up this thread with a debate where neither side is going to back down. I feel like Whoomp, I prefer to deal in reality than absolutes.

You act like you can't deal with absolutes in reality, the two terms are not mutually exclusive.

I wasn't necessarily talking about you or Skillz' story specifically. Sorry. It was more something I've noticed on GAF in general everytime a thread concerning any sort of adultery pops up. Seems to be a touchy subject for a lot of Gaffers, and I'm just kinda speculating why.

I apologize if you took it as a personal attack. I Shoulda better qualified my observation.

My issue with adultery is specific to the story skillz' brought up. Like I said, I don't disagree that some adultery might lead to a healthy relationship, but that's not what you should be shooting for if you can help it. 2 year is a long time to have an affair with someone.

 

[JumpJeff84]

The hell are you on about? I didn't call cheating the worst thing ever, but deceiving someone like that for two whole years is a pretty horrible thing to do to someone. And of course there are situations where this happens. There are also situations in which people beat up, steal from, humiliate etc., people. Sure there can be reasons for it, but what has that to do with the fact that the action itself is right or wrong? And what does it have to do with naivety? You're making no sense.

I wasn't necessarily talking about you or Skillz' story specifically. Sorry. It was more something I've noticed on GAF in general everytime a thread concerning any sort of adultery pops up. Seems to be a touchy subject for a lot of Gaffers, and I'm just kinda speculating why.

I apologize if you took it as a personal attack. I Shoulda better qualified my observation.

 

[subversus]

to draw some line I'd like to say that people are very complicated in their simplicity lol

Also I think that my current lull and indifference to women could be because there are no interesting women in sight. That's that simple. I need some new type of woman to fall in love with (or just start a relationship).

 

[Aesius]

It's really hard to put into words how much that above quote really pisses the flying fuck out of me. A super deep intense feeling of anger and jealousy. It's like a fucking slap in the face.

What's your story man? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[AssassiN]

Never thought i'd be posting my story and asking for advice i'll try to keep it short anyway.

Story begins last May. I had been going out with my GF for nearly 3 years at this point (and we have a son together who just turned 2 this past weekend), as her abusive (ex)stepfather was being released from prison at this time things were difficult and she slipped into really bad depression - she refused to get any help and just burdened herself with it eventually leading to her snapping and dumping me as i "wasn't helping her with anything" (including the depression and things like housework and looking after our son). Eventually (a few weeks later) she came to her senses and wanted to sort things out. She went and got professional help (for a couple of weeks anyway) and things looked up.

Then in August of last year her (very annoying) ex bf who was still sniffing round and had been a point of contention between us since the start (Yes, massive red flag i know) was accused and arrested on suspicion of having viewed CP (which, as we've found out over the last couple of weeks was true, and he's skipped his bail so the police are looking for him now). This sent her into a depression as it reminded her of what had happened to her at the hands of her stepfather. We managed to battle through this as the depression didn't really take a hold of her this time.

Over Christmas everything was great, everything was great on our Sons birthday (which was Friday), she was fine at the party on Saturday. Then Sunday morning comes. She wakes up, gets up & dressed starts dressing our son and doesn't look at me. She then tells me she thinks i should go back to my parents because "she needs some space" because i am "lazy". She goes out for her walk, and i wait for her to get back to talk things over - she doesn't want to so i leave. Her family have spoken to me today and it appears her depression has just reappeared overnight - no idea what has set it off this time. They are at least going to try this time to get her to get professional help and stick with it.

So, i guess my question is. Do i give up or wait for her to sort herself out and take it from there? Obviously she needs to sort her head out to have any sort of relationship, be it with me or anyone else.

 

[TurboLibre]

Question for TKawsome and Ultimoo:

Real Talk...how old are you guys? How many relationships have you been in? How many women have you slept with? How many women have you kissed?

Not trying to lash out at you guys here, just curious. My guess is that such myopic views on human love and sexuality correlate directly with a lack of 'real world' experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I have a feeling you guys are maybe a little green in the area of women....

So you're playing that card, huh? Well, 25 and no.

I still have seen this stuff countless times through friends and family to have a pretty solid opinion on the topic. If you're not happy, fix it or end it. It's not complicated at all. If you're too scared to be alone, that's you're fault, it's not fair to drag two other people through the mud just so you don't have to make that decision.

As for why it's a touchy subject it's because so many people do it. They're all part of this instant self-gratification culture and instead of trying to put work in or make hard decisions they just cover it up. Plus something like this happened to me at a young age, so I had to see the consequences all throughout my life. It's made me so cynically about relationships I've ignored the idea through most of my life. Even now I still subconsciously sabotage any chance I get. So yeah, it's a touchy subject with me.

 

[msv]

I wasn't necessarily talking about you or Skillz' story specifically. Sorry. It was more something I've noticed on GAF in general everytime a thread concerning any sort of adultery pops up. Seems to be a touchy subject for a lot of Gaffers, and I'm just kinda speculating why.

I apologize if you took it as a personal attack. I Shoulda better qualified my observation.

No didn't take it as an attack, I just really don't see your argument in that post. Sorry if I was a bit too abrasive there.

The reactions you're noticing are, I think, more people's imaginations running wild. Like white knights, who think the lady is always in distress. I don't think it has much to do with one's experience.

 

[Russell]

What's your story man? I'm genuinely curious.

Thanks for asking.

To make a long story short (very short, since I have to leave now)...

I've always very deeply longed to experience an intimate physical/emotional connection with a woman, but it hasn't happened. And because it hasn't happened, it's making me feel fucked up.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Okay, GAF, I need help to finally get started dating - are there any guides on the internet for how to talk to a woman that aren't complete shit? I stick to my closely-knit circles of friends in my local village, so the people who do know me enjoy my company; but the problem is that i'm now at university in the big city and want to branch out into the scene there. I have no idea what to talk to everyday people about though. It's really hard when your favourite hobby is games, what you're studying is games... and have nothing else of note to mention.

I have been told i'm good looking (some people even encouraged me to do modelling but alas I am only an average 5' 9.5"). I notice I do get a lot of looks from women (even some full blown stares if I say so myself), but then the moment I even think of speaking to a girl, I get tongue tied by either a) thinking I am coming off as a creep or b) simply do not know what to say.

Would prefer it if the advice /articles were written by UK GAF since the American way of dating is always so fucking corny (sorry, just trying to keep it real).


Oh yeah, forgot to say that i'm 19 years old and weigh only 8.5 stone - a starting point to work on perhaps?

 

[johnny_park]

I have been hanging out with this girl for a couple of weeks now. I've never been so infatuated before with someone who is not my type. I have no idea what it is about her. We have nothing in common, she is my complete opposite, yet I can't stop thinking about her. I don't have a question. I just wanted to get this off my chest.

 

[dskillzhtown]

I have been hanging out with this girl for a couple of weeks now. I've never been so infatuated before with someone who is not my type. I have no idea what it is about her. We have nothing in common, she is my complete opposite, yet I can't stop thinking about her. I don't have a question. I just wanted to get this off my chest.

Try it out and see what happens. Having a "type" is exteremly limiting. If you are attracted to her and like spending time around her, see where it leads.

 

[subversus]

Never thought i'd be posting my story and asking for advice i'll try to keep it short anyway.

Story begins last May. I had been going out with my GF for nearly 3 years at this point (and we have a son together who just turned 2 this past weekend), as her abusive (ex)stepfather was being released from prison at this time things were difficult and she slipped into really bad depression - she refused to get any help and just burdened herself with it eventually leading to her snapping and dumping me as i "wasn't helping her with anything" (including the depression and things like housework and looking after our son). Eventually (a few weeks later) she came to her senses and wanted to sort things out. She went and got professional help (for a couple of weeks anyway) and things looked up.

Then in August of last year her (very annoying) ex bf who was still sniffing round and had been a point of contention between us since the start (Yes, massive red flag i know) was accused and arrested on suspicion of having viewed CP (which, as we've found out over the last couple of weeks was true, and he's skipped his bail so the police are looking for him now). This sent her into a depression as it reminded her of what had happened to her at the hands of her stepfather. We managed to battle through this as the depression didn't really take a hold of her this time.

Over Christmas everything was great, everything was great on our Sons birthday (which was Friday), she was fine at the party on Saturday. Then Sunday morning comes. She wakes up, gets up & dressed starts dressing our son and doesn't look at me. She then tells me she thinks i should go back to my parents because "she needs some space" because i am "lazy". She goes out for her walk, and i wait for her to get back to talk things over - she doesn't want to so i leave. Her family have spoken to me today and it appears her depression has just reappeared overnight - no idea what has set it off this time. They are at least going to try this time to get her to get professional help and stick with it.

So, i guess my question is. Do i give up or wait for her to sort herself out and take it from there? Obviously she needs to sort her head out to have any sort of relationship, be it with me or anyone else.

That's pretty fucked up, but not uncommon.

First, I'd wait for her.
Second, woman's depression is pretty random shit. Most times it's "uncurable", so you'll have to get along with it in the future.
Third, woman's behaviour could be totally irrational during her depression. Deal with it if you love her. I personally have no guts to deal with it and it's my loss I think.

But it's up to you in the end. Listen to yourself, do not hurry decisions. They should boil for some time I think.

 

[Relix]

Meh, I think I am gonna drop the gloves with this girl. She's awesome and all but I don't know how to "get in", not in the sexual sense of course. I can't decipher her, plus re-reading one of the texts I sent drunk a week ago I found one I skipped over that she sent... it said "Better the way it is" (as friends). So, taking the gloves off. As said before, she has gotten a bit more physical, taking the initiative to talk to me, but that little sentence completely shut me off.

I think I'll go clubbing. Easier to get girls that way =P, besides I don't really want a serious relationship even though I like the girl.

*Walks away with head held high*

 

[Aurora]

Okay, GAF, I need help to finally get started dating - are there any guides on the internet for how to talk to a woman that aren't complete shit? I stick to my closely-knit circles of friends in my local village, so the people who do know me enjoy my company; but the problem is that i'm now at university in the big city and want to branch out into the scene there. I have no idea what to talk to everyday people about though. It's really hard when your favourite hobby is games, what you're studying is games... and have nothing else of note to mention.

I have been told i'm good looking (some people even encouraged me to do modelling but alas I am only an average 5' 9.5"). I notice I do get a lot of looks from women (even some full blown stares if I say so myself), but then the moment I even think of speaking to a girl, I get tongue tied by either a) thinking I am coming off as a creep or b) simply do not know what to say.

Would prefer it if the advice /articles were written by UK GAF since the American way of dating is always so fucking corny (sorry, just trying to keep it real).


Oh yeah, forgot to say that i'm 19 years old and weigh only 8.5 stone - a starting point to work on perhaps?

Heh, at the fear of sounding patronising, you remind me of me when I was 19. Similar build and height to you, regarded as good-looking, and was in a similar situation regarding girls. I'm almost 22 now and I've changed and improved so much over the past 2-3 years.

I'm not really sure of any guides that would help, but have you read The Game or ever read any Pick Up Artist material? You can disregard a lot of the content, but the frame of mind they set you up for is actually really good for talking to girls.

Apart from that, I have to say 90% of it will come from trial and error and just getting stuck in with social situations. Uni is a great time for this because everyone is new, nobody is quite familiar yet and so people are much more inclined to be nice and befriend you. You will find many people feeling the way you do so no reason to feel shy or left out.

The most obvious place to start chatting to girls is in your dorms. Even if you just live with guys, there must be girl neighbours right? You don't even need an excuse to talk to them, you live with/next to them so just approach and it should flow really easily.

Another area is during your lectures, or generally on campus.

There is probably no better place to start sharpening your social skills than at uni, so get cracking and meet some new people! That's the first step anyway.

PS: I'm in my final year of uni, also in the UK. Feel free to ask questions.

 

[JumpJeff84]

Women like tall dudes. It's so true. I feel bad for you short guys.

 

[Relix]

And now she randomly texts me the guy she likes is an idiot... only to me...

*sigh*

Fuck this shit :lol

 

[Adent]

Wow this thread makes me cringe. It's nice that your all trying to help each other with advice just not the right advice. I'm sure it's happened before but what happened when someone came in and told you guys about Pickup websites like http://www.fastseduction.com/? Were you guy's like "No we like to bash our heads against the wall instead!"?

 

[BronzeWolf]

Lol, this is something more technical. I went to get 2 wisdom teeth removed last Tuesday. It was a maxillofacial so it was going to be a pretty hardcore business and expecting to suffer a lot, I went comfortable. That means I did not do my hair and was wearing shorts (never wear shorts!). So I get there and lo and behold the Dr's assistant is pretty and hot as hell. To top it off, since you can't really drive anywhere after the procedure, and was recommended to go straight home I asked my mom to take me (YES I KNOW, STFU).

So here I am, 15 minutes waiting for the Dr and I talked a little bit to the girl but not much. The Dr. arrives and the procedure starts. It's going to last a while. She needs help eventually and calls her assistant and I shudder more. Here I am, with my filthy mouth wide open, pouring blood and saliva all over, and the assistant is pulling my tongue while I go through the most uncomfortable procedure ever invented (hyperbole). I try to make due with what I have and remain with the most positive attitude through the whole thing. I try to joke around and I make her and the Dr. laugh quite a few times.

At the end I get my wisdom tooth removed and the assistant throws them by mistake into the thrash can. The Dr then instructs her to get them back. She starts looking through the thrash can while I try to catch my balance in the chair (fucking Anesthesia). After a while I tell her that it's ok, I don't mind it, but she has to bring me money instead of the tooth fairy. She laughs.

Here comes the kick though. Dr shouts NO TALKING. So here I am stuck with a warmed up assistant and I can't talk! OH SHIT! My mom comes pick me up and girl says bye. I can't talk!

I have to get my stitches removed next Monday morning, and I think I already have a plan.

- Call the Dr's office early tomorrow, because I "forgot" the appointment's time, play it dummy.
- On Monday, get there early (I am the first patient) and get her phone.

Oh and btw, there might be the possibility that she is a minor! What do you guys think? Is this doable?

UPDATE: Went to the dr's office today. Catched the assistant checking facebook out. Talked a little bit, made her laugh a few times. She actually was kind of nervous. The dr did her thing and I was done. I said bye.

I didn't ask her for her facebook or number, but it was implied that I had facebook too so I just sent her a request!

I hope she accepts u.U

 

[BronzeWolf]

Wow this thread makes me cringe. It's nice that your all trying to help each other with advice just not the right advice. I'm sure it's happened before but what happened when someone came in and told you guys about Pickup websites like http://www.fastseduction.com/? Were you guy's like "No we like to bash our heads against the wall instead!"?

please elaborate

 

[Adent]

What it's never happened before?

 

[TurboLibre]

Wow this thread makes me cringe. It's nice that your all trying to help each other with advice just not the right advice. I'm sure it's happened before but what happened when someone came in and told you guys about Pickup websites like http://www.fastseduction.com/? Were you guy's like "No we like to bash our heads against the wall instead!"?

I can train with the worlds best P.U.A.? Sign me up!

I'll look through it. It doesn't sound like my thing, but maybe I can salvage some good tips from it. It still sounds like a lot of head bashing though.

 

[Adent]

That website it's totally free. I would never recommend anyone take a boot camp instead of doing it on their own for free. Anyways I just wanted to mention that your all starting from scratch when you don't have to. All the advice on the OP is very nice guyish and should be thrown out if any of you really want to get girls.

Start right here if your curious. http://www.fastseduction.com/youarenew/why.shtml

 

[BronzeWolf]

PUA shit is great.

Not all of it, but the classics are still amazing. I don't use it verbatim and have long stopped from using it, but it presents a frame of mind that really works. I don't think it's about the "techniques" and much more about the theory that really counts.

- What women really for in a dude
- What men really need to work on as a guy
- What steps can be taken to ameliorate common issues.

It really does help a lot and I don't think I could even have started to talk to women without it

That website it's totally free. I would never recommend anyone take a boot camp instead of doing it on their own for free. Anyways I just wanted to mention that your all starting from scratch when you don't have to. All the advice on the OP is very nice guyish and should be thrown out if any of you really want to get girls.

Start right here if your curious. http://www.fastseduction.com/youarenew/why.shtml

I completely agree with you, but you have to realize that many people get very resistant to those resources. Most of the time nice guys blatantly deny them. I wrote some part of the OP and I wish it was more harsh, but I realize I am communicating to the masses and that I need to be less "blunt" about stuff. Churning out AFC, HB, IOI, DLV and other PUA lingo scares tons of people. I don't want people to be scared.

Some people raelly need to bang their head into a wall before they catch on, which is why this thread is needed.

And the OP is NOT that nice-guy'ish, the what not to do is great IMO

It could be REALLY REALLY REALLY MUCH WORSE

 

[Adent]

But really telling guys in the OP to compliment women is like asking them to sabotage themselves. That's just the most blatant of bad advice. Oh well I don't want to troll so I'll be off. Thought I would just mention it though.

 

[BronzeWolf]

But really telling guys in the OP to compliment women is like asking them to sabotage themselves. That's just the most blatant of bad advice. Oh well I don't want to troll so I'll be off. Thought I would just mention it though.

It says

Throw in a compliment or two. Don't overdo it though

ONE OR TWO.

That's not super nice-guy. I would rephrase it though, to something like

- Don't overdo compliments. Make at most 2 non-physical compliments only: "You are really cool" and "You seem like a smart girl" are great, but don't overdo them either.

 

[Adent]

But thats so wrong. They already come in thinking they are the prize. Why would you want to put them higher and higher on the pedestal? Don't do it. One compliment is one to many.

 

[BronzeWolf]

WTF I found that the OP is really lacking in kino shit. Kino is essential. You can't pick up without kino. At all.

NO, REALLY

Here is my OP proposal, if anyone is curious

Hello!

Loving the new thread. Here is some rearrangements and contributions I have thought of. I think the order needs to be changed, to go more into the order of how one actually lives dating.

Hope you like it

Psychological Preparation or INNER GAME
In order to get yourself in a position where dating is fun and rewarding instead of awkward and frustrating you first need to internalize some things. The first is that girls are human beings too, and this sounds terribly cliche but it's true:
ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT A GIRL IS AS, IF NOT MORE, NERVOUS THAN YOU WHEN YOU APPROACH HER
The second is that confidence is everything, it's your currency:
WHENEVER YOU THINK YOU AREN'T SMART, HUNG, RICH, SUCCESFUL, HANDSOME OR MUSCULAR ENOUGH, STOP IT! FOCUS ON WHAT YOU DO GOOD

Also, without saying:
- BUY NEW CLOTHES FOR GOD'S SAKE! Take your best dressed girl/gay friend to the store and let her dress you up. NO OBJECTIONS.
- GET SOME NICE SHOES AND NICE SOCKS
- GET A HOBBY! PHOTOGRAPHY, MUSIC, FILMAKING, DOG TRAINING, KIT FLYING, SAILING, FISHING, BIKING, CONCERT GOING. WHATEVER YOU LIKE, MAKE IT A HOBBY
- WORK OUT! BUILD THOSE MUSCLES WITH STRENGTH TRAINING
- GET A HAIRCUT
- If overweight, lose weight
- If skinny, gain weight
- SLEEP!

Now you are ready internally to get to the game. Now you set your watch, second date is the maximum alloted time to get a kiss. GAME SET MATCH GO!

Where To GO

Bars and Clubs
Many people go to bars and clubs to pick up girls. Until you are comfortable with approaching strangers in bars, going out with the sole purpose of meeting girls is only going to leave you frustrated and angry. Go to bars to have fun instead. Do your damn hardest to have THE MOST FUN you can have at a bar. Fun is contagious and people notice it. If you are having A BLAST at the bar, and you go to the bathroom, it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to say hi to that random girl that keeps looking in your direction.

Coffee shops, Bookstores and Libraries, Mall
Common interests is a must to being able to catch the attention of a girl in this environment. "Oh are you reading x?", "buying z?", "drinking y?". They will say yes, IT IS NOW IMPERATIVE THAT YOU ASK WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT IT. If you don't ask, now you are going to be left with nothing to keep the conversation, but asking for her opinion, will fill you in with details with which you can have a conversation.

Classes
Just say "hi! never seen you before? What classes are you taking?" Take it from there

How To Act
- Whenever you say something about you, talk about it like it is TEH MOST EXCITING THING EVER. I don't care if your job picking up thrash SUCKS, make it the best thing in the world and talk about any fun anecdote you might think. Can't think of anything positive to say about your job? Don't, focus on a hobby instead. Have something to show off, a scar you got while skating, some clothe brand that relates to your sport, or a picture you took in your wallet. Even a cool business card helps
- BE FUNNY! Always have a smile in your face, show your teeth if you can. Girls love that. They love seeing a guy smiling and they will comment later on how "He is a lot of fun!" to her friends.
- BE SEXUAL. Touch her. Touch her a lot. Touch her in the correct order, starting from the greeting, by touching her in the shoulder or back, slowly but surely move to the hands during the conversation. If a girl lets you touch her hand, you are almost guaranteed to have success, just don't rush it. Now move on to the face. Always remember to keep your touching brief but let it linger a little bit more than is quite normal. Always maintain eye contact, keep the conversation and KEEP SMILING THE FUCK OUT! If you are in the face, be sure to check the signs of interests. Once you assert that she is interested, go for the kill. Even if you don't assert that she is interested go for the kill.
- ASK ABOUT HER LIFE. Be interested in what she says! Don't just interrupt with your experiences. REMEMBER THAT THE ONLY REASON YOU BECAME A FUNNY AND INTERESTING GUY IS SO SHE COULD OPEN UP to you. Once opened, there is no need to close it again, let her talk! Pay attention to the names. When you are dating, there will plenty of time to ignore her

What NOT to do
- Don't ever put her in a pedestal. She farts, shits and snores like everybody else. She is probably stupid in more areas of science that you care to count. She probably drives like shit or has a sucky family. She is bad with animals or maybe she is just a close minded person. Nobody is perfect and your "dream girl" more likely isn't either.
- Don't be creepy. If you want to approach a girl, do it. But lingering to a failed conquest is a sign of insecurity and actually works against your purposes so drop it.
- Don't be rude. Don't say too many curse words. I know it makes you feel like a badass but most girl don't like it, girls are not like your buddies. Don't insult other women, including your exes, girls identify themselves with other girls and that girl you are talking bad about right now, might have been her. Don't make racist, mysoginist or sexist commetaries.
- Don't be THE PERFECT GENTLEMAN. No door opening, flower and candy gifting or song writting. NO FREE MEALS BEYOND THE FIRST DATE! That stuff is reserved for girlfriends or other meaningful girls in your world. You are just meeting each other, she is no meaningful to you yet.

Signs of Interest (IOI)
- BODY LANGUAGE. She mantains eye contact. She plays with her hair. She laughes. She points her knees to the side. She touches you IN ANY WAY. She lets you touch her. She leans to you. This are not coincidences, this are CLEAR SIGNS THAT SHE WANTS YOU! SEIZE ON YOU TIGER.
- LANGUAGE. She accepts your jokes. She tells you about herself. She validates herself to you ("I am a musician" "Oh really? I love music, I used to play piano as a child"). She makes plans for the future. She gives you her number.

1st Date
Many guys will get a kiss or sex on the first date and be content with that, but many others are looking for something more meaningful. Dating is where you get to know a person in other settings and know if you are compatible. What is a date? A date is any setting in which you and the girl are able to be 1 on 1 in a intimate environment. Going out with the gang is not much of a date, although if you can arrange it so you end up alone, it does. Besides getting closer to that kiss, the first date conversation topics should be all about your future. How much fun you two are going to have together, and how innumerable the things you both enjoy. Do something you like and understand. It doesn't matter if she doesn't, you will guide her. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND HER JOINING WHATEVER YOU DO FOR A HOBBY. No letting go on the touching her either. If you ended up at the hands, start back at the shoulder and quickly move back to the hands and beyond. You should be at least touching her face at the end of the 1st date

1st Date don't's
- Don't do movie and a dinner. It's just boring
- Don't do expensive places. It's just not worth it for any 1st date
- Don't do something you can't easily escape from. It she is boring, you need to have an easy escape plan.
- Don't do family. It's scary
- Don't do BUDDIES DRINK NIGHT OUT. It might work, but it's more fun and memorable to go kite flying.

2nd Date
Remember all those plans in the first date? Do the most exciting one and shoot for the kill. If you don't get to any base after the 2nd date, drop it and look for another girl.

Dating Do's
- Dress well
- Take her to your workplace if it's appropiate
- Throw a handful of compliments about her personality
- Touch her

Dating Dont's
- Don't be late
- Don't be rude
- Don't be unergetic
- Don't listen to her bad anecdotes. No ex stories, no family drama. You are supposed to be having fun and if these topics arise, ignore them first, if she insists on it, make a point that you are there to have fun and get to know each other. If she insists again, leave.
- Don't ask her to pay. Going Dutch is expected now adays, but don't force it. If you aren't yet ready to pay for a girl, make a note of it and next time comment on how you want to know each other but aren't really in the place to pay for all the dates you are planning on having with her.
- Don't discuss politics, religion or other passionate topics. There is plenty of time when dating to know about her intellectual self and how it relates to yours
- Don't tell her you love/really really like/feel trongly her or that you have never met someone like her.
- Don't ask for her permission for anything.
- Don't be apologetic about anything. If you mess up or drop something, sure, but otherwise don't.

How To Improve
This ability doesn't come as naturally as some of us might want. Some get it faster than others, some never do, AS LONG AS YOU KEEP MAKING PROGESS, EVERYTHING IS GOOD. The cool thing about learning the in and outs of dating is that you never ever take a look back. You WILL fail, repeteadly even, but you will get it right if you pay heed to the correct advice and work for it. You might feel that you haven't even advanced much, but one day you will wake up and think "jeez I kind of want to go with Jeena but Samm is really bugging me to go out with her today". To me, many girls wanting to be with you, is the sign that you are something else.

Everything else: OK

 

[BronzeWolf]

But thats so wrong. They already come in thinking they are the prize. Why would you want to put them higher and higher on the pedestal? Don't do it. One compliment is one to many.

That's just one school of thought on the community. I don't think compliments are bad if done right. A compliment + kino can be a really powerful weapon, as long as you break the bitch wall. One compliment is definitively not one too many, it depends on the quality of the compliment and the delivery.

I also work mostly day game, where compliments aren't as "damaging" as when at night game.

 

[TurboLibre]

I'm sure it's happened before but what happened when someone came in and told you guys about Pickup websites like http://www.fastseduction.com/? Were you guy's like "No we like to bash our heads against the wall instead!"?

Here's what you do. You see a girl you like, but for some reason can't do an approach (you don't have the time, or maybe the guts, or the situation disallows it etc), at least do this - say "Hi". Keep enough eye-contact to get a confused "Hi" in return, then continue with what you were doing (walking, working etc). Maybe you'll never see the girl again. But if you do (oh joy and behold! - say "Hi" again. Then continue with what you were doing (basically, ignoring her. And so on, and so on. After the first three "Hi's" the girl is still wondering, if or how she is supposed to know you. After the fifth "Hi" she is already wondering, how come you never actually talk to her. After the tenth "Hi" she can't understand, how come you never even approach her. After the twentieth "Hi" she is so confused and intrigued about you that she just can't stand it anymore and will approach YOU instead. She'll try to find out how the two of you know, and why you never talk to her, or why you never even approach her, but you still keep saying "Hi", is there something wrong with her etc - be very vague and mysterious about it in your answers (after all, you don't have much to tell anyway. Now however, you're talking to an absolutely gorgeous girl (remember, you almost didn't even have the guts to say "Hi" to her, who is so intrigued about you the she approached you - make the best of it

Uh-huh...

 

[BronzeWolf]

Uh-huh...

uh-huh what?

I've seen it work. I haven't done THAT particular technique, but I remember that a particular game a friend used to play when going out was passing through a girl and saying "hi". Rinse and repeat and after 30 minutes the girl was madly interested and he picked her up.

Don't troll if you haven't tried it

 

[TurboLibre]

uh-huh what?

I've seen it work. I haven't done THAT particular technique, but I remember that a particular game a friend used to play when going out was passing through a girl and saying "hi". Rinse and repeat and after 30 minutes the girl was madly interested and he picked her up.

Don't troll if you haven't tried it

Say "Hi" to the girl 20 times and then maybe she'll approach me. It's foolproof.

Really, if I'm seeing her that frequently I'll try my luck with a good old fashioned conversation. Maybe do the "Hi" thing a couple of times, but that description is nuts.

 

[BronzeWolf]

Say "Hi" to the girl 20 times and then maybe she'll approach me. It's foolproof.

Really, if I'm seeing her that frequently I'll try my luck with a good old fashioned conversation. Maybe do the "Hi" thing a couple of times, but that description is nuts.

The description is shitty. But the concept is good and it works good like in the situation I described.

 

[JB1981]

Never thought i'd be posting my story and asking for advice i'll try to keep it short anyway.

Story begins last May. I had been going out with my GF for nearly 3 years at this point (and we have a son together who just turned 2 this past weekend), as her abusive (ex)stepfather was being released from prison at this time things were difficult and she slipped into really bad depression - she refused to get any help and just burdened herself with it eventually leading to her snapping and dumping me as i "wasn't helping her with anything" (including the depression and things like housework and looking after our son). Eventually (a few weeks later) she came to her senses and wanted to sort things out. She went and got professional help (for a couple of weeks anyway) and things looked up.

Then in August of last year her (very annoying) ex bf who was still sniffing round and had been a point of contention between us since the start (Yes, massive red flag i know) was accused and arrested on suspicion of having viewed CP (which, as we've found out over the last couple of weeks was true, and he's skipped his bail so the police are looking for him now). This sent her into a depression as it reminded her of what had happened to her at the hands of her stepfather. We managed to battle through this as the depression didn't really take a hold of her this time.

Over Christmas everything was great, everything was great on our Sons birthday (which was Friday), she was fine at the party on Saturday. Then Sunday morning comes. She wakes up, gets up & dressed starts dressing our son and doesn't look at me. She then tells me she thinks i should go back to my parents because "she needs some space" because i am "lazy". She goes out for her walk, and i wait for her to get back to talk things over - she doesn't want to so i leave. Her family have spoken to me today and it appears her depression has just reappeared overnight - no idea what has set it off this time. They are at least going to try this time to get her to get professional help and stick with it.

So, i guess my question is. Do i give up or wait for her to sort herself out and take it from there? Obviously she needs to sort her head out to have any sort of relationship, be it with me or anyone else.

Your girl sounds totally bipolar to me.