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Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

CGNoire

Member
Its not even cherry picked at this point lol, they just cut out zoomed in compressed youtube video's. If you need to do all that shit, it tells you enough about how good CP2077 looks lol.

And now in gameplay without the Insomniac photoshoped promoshots.
22.jpg

5.jpg

2.jpg
Wait.... are those shots CGI from the new film?
I cant tell the difference?
 

CGNoire

Member
Lol are you me?

I was about to say how day time roaming around the streets feel like a different game from indoors or night time or dark zones.

Pathtracing manage to look almost as flat as raster during day time.
Because Rasterization has become excellent at rendering direct lighting. Its the indirrect lit dynamic scenes that pathtracing improves the most.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Ok, just tried Cyberpunk. At first, i was like yeah, thats the game i remember, but then i turned on path tracing with ray reconstruction and wow. I honestly dont know if its a massive difference from regular RT, but it does look magnificent at times. There are some lighting conditions in this game that look straight up CG. The blurry look of path tracing at 1440p dlss balanced is pretty much gone and now it looks like a 1440p image. it must be the ray reconstruction at work.

also, The game's hdr doesnt get enough lol. without hdr, it looks underwhelming. The NPC animations, and overall asset modeling is still fairly last gen, but when you are driving around and looking at the buildings and neon signs, its an incredible sight. Best looking game out there.

Here are some path tracing and regular ray tracing comparisons. The biggest difference is in shadows.

Regular RT
F6rwFkVWAAEuoXP


Path Tracing
F6rwFkSWsAA3FzD


Regular RT
F6rwFkXXkAAZM1S

Path Tracing

F6rwFkVXIAASvU3
 

CGNoire

Member
Graphics whores, I have a question.

Considering UE5 is still in its infancy and we can see that the current console have hardly used nanite, lumen and the rest of the advanced feature set, will this mean Epic is likely to stick with UE5 going into the PS6 gen, or would they launch UE6 in tandem with next generation consoles?
It will be UE6 with a heavy focus on physics like voxel based dynamic fluid sim etc...
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just watched the Alex Ray reconstruction video and everything makes sense now. Ray tracing with dlss before ray reconstruction was a blurry mess. It didn’t just impact reflections which had more motion blur than ff16, but also character faces and general blurriness of the game. I have always wondered why the fancy shots of Jackie and other characters never looked that good on my screen even at 4k dlss quality and psycho rt, and well it’s because ray tracing denoising was blurring out all the detail making it look worse than standard rasterization which didn’t have these image quality issues.

Quite frankly, I’m pissed that it has taken this long to find these issues. Alex never brought these up until today. He did what he always does and make everything on PC out to be the second coming. Its been clear to me since day 1 with metro and control that rt solutions were off. It took metro devs two years to fix light bounce and control’s blurry almost smudgy graphics likely won’t be fixed until they add ray construction to it.

Its great Nvidia has finally fixed it but i hope this is an eye opener for everyone screaming about rt being the future. The downgrades to image quality even at 4k dlss quality are simply not worth it. Stick with software real-time gi that doesn’t have these denoising issues with upscaling techniques.

Right now, i can’t seem to use this ray reconstruction on standard rt so i have to enable path tracing which hovers between 30-55 fps at dlss 1440p balanced or 960p. Constant drops to 30. Feels terrible to play unless you are driving around. Obviously it looks much cleaner than 970p but i can run this thing at 4k dlss performance at 60 fps with medium rtgi and reflections. Probably 4k dlss quality with rt off. Rt is just too expensive.
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
You are killing it with screenshots, it looks insane, playing at 4k no?

Thanks man, I'm playing at 4k with DLSS set to balanced, frame generation and ray reconstruction ON. Looks surpassingly sharp when playing on 65 inch OLED from a normal viewing distance. Can't complain.
 

Lethal01

Member
Its great Nvidia has finally fixed it but i hope this is an eye opener for everyone screaming about rt being the future. The downgrades to image quality even at 4k dlss quality are simply not worth it. Stick with software real-time gi that doesn’t have these denoising issues with upscaling techniques.

I've been talking about how RT is the future/ the current only real way forward for realtime lighting and I already can't stand games without it. But I've also complained about the obvious shortcoming of it's current implementation. I'm sure DF has explained the issues with it's ghosting many times already, maybe you just didn't get what was being said.
 

timothet

Member
Its great Nvidia has finally fixed it but i hope this is an eye opener for everyone screaming about rt being the future. The downgrades to image quality even at 4k dlss quality are simply not worth it. Stick with software real-time gi that doesn’t have these denoising issues with upscaling techniques.
We are only at the beginning stages in terms of implementing RT/PT in realtime. There is plenty of room for improvement. New research papers about improving/optimising RT&PT and adjacent technologies are being released all the time.

I imagine the next step for NVidia is implementation of Neural Radiance Caching which would reduce noise generated from PT significantly. I wouldn't be surprised if it would be part of DLSS 4.0.

RT/PT is the future whether you like it or not.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
I switched between rtx psycho and pt like 30 times this night...

I think i'm gonna just leave psycho because i can actually see shit in dark places.

The game doesn't have a torch (unless my memory is fucked and you unlock it later) so even if the light conditions are more realistic sometimes it is way too dark, at least on a lg c1 in game mode with hdr off.

Maybe i'm just gonna normally play on psycho and switch to pt during important cutscenes or setpieces.

Sometimes i can't even enjoy some details because they are too dark, psycho looks less flat than raster but you can actually see stuff :lollipop_grinning_sweat:

The game still has a bug (i think it is a bug but it happen very often) where many npcs or even important characters don't have a shadow at all or they have blob shadows even with all settings maxed out, i have a pic of jackie without a shadow during an important main mission.
This shit should not happen in a game with such a major attention to lights and shadows.

Pendejo mira, mi sombra is fucked

IMG-20230923-002130.jpg



Here some other shitty pics i took with my phone, all pathtraced

IMG-20230922-222828.jpg

IMG-20230922-224001.jpg

IMG-20230922-224036.jpg

IMG-20230922-233735.jpg
 
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rofif

Can’t Git Gud
Forspoken looks like a cross-gen character model was plopped into a 2011 Skyrim world.
The game is not some crazy next gen graphics showcase but I genuinely think it looks good. Even very good with HDR.
The fog volumes and draw distances are pretty impressive.
It certainly is not a bad looking game by most means.
And that's ps5 launch code. It got nicely patched with much better AO and LOD. The pc version too... I should probably go in there and make new screenshots

c72HhSP.jpg



R4YpHR3.jpg

LQCCVrl.jpg


z5A1hKQ.jpg

5TexbOG.jpg

1mT9UMa.jpg

MWPO3zY.jpg

ompWY6e.jpg
 
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PeteBull

Member
Just watched the Alex Ray reconstruction video and everything makes sense now. Ray tracing with dlss before ray reconstruction was a blurry mess. It didn’t just impact reflections which had more motion blur than ff16, but also character faces and general blurriness of the game. I have always wondered why the fancy shots of Jackie and other characters never looked that good on my screen even at 4k dlss quality and psycho rt, and well it’s because ray tracing denoising was blurring out all the detail making it look worse than standard rasterization which didn’t have these image quality issues.

Quite frankly, I’m pissed that it has taken this long to find these issues. Alex never brought these up until today. He did what he always does and make everything on PC out to be the second coming. Its been clear to me since day 1 with metro and control that rt solutions were off. It took metro devs two years to fix light bounce and control’s blurry almost smudgy graphics likely won’t be fixed until they add ray construction to it.

Its great Nvidia has finally fixed it but i hope this is an eye opener for everyone screaming about rt being the future. The downgrades to image quality even at 4k dlss quality are simply not worth it. Stick with software real-time gi that doesn’t have these denoising issues with upscaling techniques.

Right now, i can’t seem to use this ray reconstruction on standard rt so i have to enable path tracing which hovers between 30-55 fps at dlss 1440p balanced or 960p. Constant drops to 30. Feels terrible to play unless you are driving around. Obviously it looks much cleaner than 970p but i can run this thing at 4k dlss performance at 60 fps with medium rtgi and reflections. Probably 4k dlss quality with rt off. Rt is just too expensive.
On ps6/next xbox (not that joke of a refresh that leaked where they take away disc drive and keep same price lol) rt wont be as expensive, back in the days anti aliasing solutions were crazy expensive too, and games to look semi not blurry had to use msaax4 or even x8, nowadays its basically almost free, just need to live long enough where hardware catches up to software =D
 

alloush

Member
But FE is mostly minitures and practical. Only the motion blurred out background traffic is cgi. Thata why it holds up so damm well right now. The practical effects are packed with detail well beyond cgi of the time.
Yeah that movie looked crazy good at the time. I mean it still looks hella good today, it’s one of my favorite movies actually. I love futuristic scifi cities like that and always wanted a game to resemble FE. I thought CP was gonna be it but alas it wasn’t. Once we reach graphics similar to their latest cinematic trailer that Gymwolf posted last week then that’s when my dream of playing in a proper futuristic city that looks fantastic comes true.
Ok, just tried Cyberpunk. At first, i was like yeah, thats the game i remember, but then i turned on path tracing with ray reconstruction and wow. I honestly dont know if its a massive difference from regular RT, but it does look magnificent at times. There are some lighting conditions in this game that look straight up CG. The blurry look of path tracing at 1440p dlss balanced is pretty much gone and now it looks like a 1440p image. it must be the ray reconstruction at work.

also, The game's hdr doesnt get enough lol. without hdr, it looks underwhelming. The NPC animations, and overall asset modeling is still fairly last gen, but when you are driving around and looking at the buildings and neon signs, its an incredible sight. Best looking game out there.

Here are some path tracing and regular ray tracing comparisons. The biggest difference is in shadows.

Regular RT
F6rwFkVWAAEuoXP


Path Tracing
F6rwFkSWsAA3FzD


Regular RT
F6rwFkXXkAAZM1S

Path Tracing

F6rwFkVXIAASvU3
They have finally got you brother :messenger_pensive:
 
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CGNoire

Member
Yeah that movie looked crazy good at the time. I mean it still looks hella good today, it’s one of my favorite movies actually. I love futuristic scifi cities like that and always wanted a game to resemble FE. I thought CP was gonna be it but alas it wasn’t. Once we reach graphics similar to their latest cinematic trailer that Gymwolf posted last week then that’s when my dream of playing in a proper futuristic city that looks fantastic comes true.

They have finally got you brother :messenger_pensive:
Yah same. Between Blade Runner, BTTF2 , Judge Dredd, Fifth Element and Coruscant I have been simply obsessed with getting my flying car in dense traffic in a sky scraping city on. I do think the aesthetics of Art Deco old New York architecture meets sci fi city they presented in FE to be the peak of the aesthetic. Hoping someone in Dreams comes through on a game prototype.

CP 2077 ditching flying cars and reducing the height of the city a shit ton was gutting for me. Looking at all those cranes around the city gives me hope for and insanly vertical sequel that rights that wrong.
 
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The First Descendant is impressing the fuck out of me graphically. It's using UE5 and on my 4090 it's really eye popping :messenger_hushed:

The character models and environments are extremely detailed. This is the kin of graphics I expect this gen. I've played it on my PS5 too and it looks really good there as well although not as sharp resolution wise.

OOfspFR.jpg

JAf2UAE.jpg

b5hP29b.jpg

pCadQAF.jpg

3OIFp7t.jpg
 

alloush

Member
Yah same. Between Blade Runner, BTTF2 , Judge Dredd, Fifth Element and Coruscant I have been simply obsessed with getting my flying car in dense traffic in a sky scraping city on. I do think the aesthetics of Art Deco old New York architecture meets sci fi city they presented in FE to be the peak of the aesthetic. Hoping someone in Dreams comes through on a game prototype.

CP 2077 ditching flying cars and reducing the height of the city a shit ton was gutting for me. Looking at all those cranes around the city gives me hope for and insanly vertical sequel that rights that wrong.
Ahh you mention flying cars, been a dream of mine since I was a kid to play a game with flying cars. We are in 2023 and we still do not have that. A city like CP with even longer towers, cranes, more density and stuff and flying cars would be the dream. Blade Runner is a good shout, too. A game based off of that would be sweet.
 

alloush

Member
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/fina...-rendition-of-the-original-world-map.1661475/ bit offtopic since its not exactly graphical fidelity, but kinda, if it actually is true it will be huge contrast vs loading between boxes what we got in starfield recently, and made on ps5 , not some highend pc with 3x more cpu/gpu power too xD
Not gonna lie it got me hyped af =D
Speaking of creating maps 1:1, I wonder if it is feasible to, say, create a 1:1 city in games like GTA for example creating a 1:1 scale of LA. The game will probably have terabytes of data but I wonder if we will get there one day. Though imagine driving from point A to point B in the game and it being an actual half an hour ride, lol.

Since we are on the subject I wonder how MS did it with Flight Sim where they created the earth. How long would it take to fly from Europe to the US in the game? (the average real-world time is about 9 hours I believe).
The First Descendant is impressing the fuck out of me graphically. It's using UE5 and on my 4090 it's really eye popping :messenger_hushed:

The character models and environments are extremely detailed. This is the kin of graphics I expect this gen. I've played it on my PS5 too and it looks really good there as well although not as sharp resolution wise.

OOfspFR.jpg

JAf2UAE.jpg

b5hP29b.jpg

pCadQAF.jpg

3OIFp7t.jpg
This looks mighty impressive actually. Not too shabby!
 

SABRE220

Member
Ok, just tried Cyberpunk. At first, i was like yeah, thats the game i remember, but then i turned on path tracing with ray reconstruction and wow. I honestly dont know if its a massive difference from regular RT, but it does look magnificent at times. There are some lighting conditions in this game that look straight up CG. The blurry look of path tracing at 1440p dlss balanced is pretty much gone and now it looks like a 1440p image. it must be the ray reconstruction at work.

also, The game's hdr doesnt get enough lol. without hdr, it looks underwhelming. The NPC animations, and overall asset modeling is still fairly last gen, but when you are driving around and looking at the buildings and neon signs, its an incredible sight. Best looking game out there.

Here are some path tracing and regular ray tracing comparisons. The biggest difference is in shadows.

Regular RT
F6rwFkVWAAEuoXP


Path Tracing
F6rwFkSWsAA3FzD


Regular RT
F6rwFkXXkAAZM1S

Path Tracing

F6rwFkVXIAASvU3
My guy you have been bouncing between pathtracing being mid and not worth it compared to medium level rt and now to this, that being said I have to agree PT has a distinct look that is simply special if you have the option for it.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yeah that movie looked crazy good at the time. I mean it still looks hella good today, it’s one of my favorite movies actually. I love futuristic scifi cities like that and always wanted a game to resemble FE. I thought CP was gonna be it but alas it wasn’t. Once we reach graphics similar to their latest cinematic trailer that Gymwolf posted last week then that’s when my dream of playing in a proper futuristic city that looks fantastic comes true.

They have finally got you brother :messenger_pensive:
I’m weak.

 

nemiroff

Gold Member




These modders putting devs to fucking shame in weeks.

I'm pretty sure you can already fly seamlessly between planets in a system (I saw a youtuber do it, it took her like 8 hours..) but it takes an impractical amount of time to do it. So AFAIK "all" this mod does is to speed up the clock.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
I've taken quite a lot of shots comparing ULTRA Raster, to Max RT(overdrive). Both DLSS balanced at 4k.
The difference is staggering in some examples.
Full set here:
You will have to figure out which one is which.
If you open each image in different tab and switch between, the difference is huge.

Btw - New cars with guns are awesome. You can even fire misslies from that police apc

My 2 fav ones:
IegcPDN.jpg

COikFr0.jpg



d309MhB.jpg

w8q9mz0.jpg
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
My guy you have been bouncing between pathtracing being mid and not worth it compared to medium level rt and now to this, that being said I have to agree PT has a distinct look that is simply special if you have the option for it.
Probably because the game also bounces between looking great to looking really rough. It also doesnt help that ray reconstruction is either bugged or doesnt work all the time because im now seeing more ghosting than ever.

I went back to 4k dlss with most rt settings disabled and the game still looks great. I think i will just stick with this mode. 4k dlss quality vs 1440p dlss balanced to get this game running with path tracing is a no brainer. The image quality is really really bad.

Watch this on your TV. Full screen. Not on your phone. Not in the embedded previes. Full screen you can see ghosting on all cars that disappears when i switch to standard rasterization at 4k dlss quality. It insanely distracting beyond the obvious downgrade in fidelity from 1440p internal to 960p. And thats the thing that simply doesnt show itself in gifs or even still screenshots.

First minute 4k dlss, then 1440p dlss balanced with path tracing.


Typically, im for more fidelity over higher resolutions, but not at the expense of creating additional ghosting artifacts all over the place. Standard rasterization doesnt have draw backs like this. you get some small ghosting, a little less sharper picture, but here the extra shadows are coming at a way higher cost than simply downscaling the resolution. Maybe its worth for dudes with 4080s and 4090s who can run this at 4k dlss quality with framegen, but the rest of us 99% of gamers simply shouldnt bother.
 
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Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Probably because the game also bounces between looking great to looking really rough. It also doesnt help that ray reconstruction is either bugged or doesnt work all the time because im now seeing more ghosting than ever.

I went back to 4k dlss with most rt settings disabled and the game still looks great. I think i will just stick with this mode. 4k dlss quality vs 1440p dlss balanced to get this game running with path tracing is a no brainer. The image quality is really really bad.

Watch this on your TV. Full screen. Not on your phone. Not in the embedded previes. Full screen you can see ghosting on all cars that disappears when i switch to standard rasterization at 4k dlss quality. It insanely distracting beyond the obvious downgrade in fidelity from 1440p internal to 960p. And thats the thing that simply doesnt show itself in gifs or even still screenshots.

First minute 4k dlss, then 1440p dlss balanced with path tracing.


Typically, im for more fidelity over higher resolutions, but not at the expense of creating additional ghosting artifacts all over the place. Standard rasterization doesnt have draw backs like this. you get some small ghosting, a little less sharper picture, but here the extra shadows are coming at a way higher cost than simply downscaling the resolution. Maybe its worth for dudes with 4080s and 4090s who can run this at 4k dlss quality with framegen, but the rest of us 99% of gamers simply shouldnt bother.

This is true, at lower resolution the artefacts become more visible. But the difference is still drastic and worth it to check even if you don't own a 4080/4090.
 

Alex11

Member
I've taken quite a lot of shots comparing ULTRA Raster, to Max RT(overdrive). Both DLSS balanced at 4k.
The difference is staggering in some examples.
Full set here:
You will have to figure out which one is which.
If you open each image in different tab and switch between, the difference is huge.

Btw - New cars with guns are awesome. You can even fire misslies from that police apc

My 2 fav ones:
IegcPDN.jpg

COikFr0.jpg



d309MhB.jpg

w8q9mz0.jpg

Nice shots, the difference really is quite staggering imo most of the time.

It is quite clear in most of your shots which are the ones with PT, by the shadows under the cars and the light bounce, it feels more real, more natural.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes




These modders putting devs to fucking shame in weeks.

nah, this is classic online outrage nonsense. this is already in the game. the modder just increased the speed so you get there faster.

its a design decision. you either fast travel from earth to saturn in less than 5 seconds or take a long 2 minute flight to get there. NO ONE was going to do that in a game that is constantly asking you to go planet hopping every 15 minutes. THATS the problem with the game. the constant planet hopping which sees in you menus more than any other bethesda game. adding forced take off, landing and travel would make the game 10x longer and would be worse for it.

On ps6/next xbox (not that joke of a refresh that leaked where they take away disc drive and keep same price lol) rt wont be as expensive, back in the days anti aliasing solutions were crazy expensive too, and games to look semi not blurry had to use msaax4 or even x8, nowadays its basically almost free, just need to live long enough where hardware catches up to software =D
I think RT will always be more expensive though, its just what it is. there is no approximating path tracing, its path tracing. Just look at whats happened with ps5 first party games. We all said that cerny will figure out some magic rt solution. he didnt. we all hoped that sony first party studios will figure out RT optimization. they didnt. ND, GG, Bluepoint, PD, SSM all shipped without RT. BP and PD even advertised RT but either took it out of the game or couldnt get it to work during gameplay. Insomniac is literally the only first party studio thats doing RT and they are sticking with RT reflections. Metro exodus and Control were doing so much more with RT in 2019 because they had access to better hardware.

And Even if AMD has some kind of huge RT breakthrough, the RT capabilities of the next gen consoles are not going to be on par with a 4090. And thats a big if. It's been 5 years since nvidia launched RT, and AMD still cant match the performance.
 

shamoomoo

Member

Interesting? I'm assuming this is a cutscene but the image clarity is really good. I noticed more specular highlights in SM2 but that could be from different materials that each game are trying to represent and Miles in SM2 appears to have bone/muscle coming through the suit like a real person.
 

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Tempting

Fuck.
Well, do I need to beat the base game to launch it? And has the base game been updated to look just as good as the DLC?
no, but you have to play it to reach Phantom Liberty missions. And yes the base game is also updated graphically since its on the same map. but the map is epxanded and they made some adjustments on the older map.
 

shamoomoo

Member
nah, this is classic online outrage nonsense. this is already in the game. the modder just increased the speed so you get there faster.

its a design decision. you either fast travel from earth to saturn in less than 5 seconds or take a long 2 minute flight to get there. NO ONE was going to do that in a game that is constantly asking you to go planet hopping every 15 minutes. THATS the problem with the game. the constant planet hopping which sees in you menus more than any other bethesda game. adding forced take off, landing and travel would make the game 10x longer and would be worse for it.


I think RT will always be more expensive though, its just what it is. there is no approximating path tracing, its path tracing. Just look at whats happened with ps5 first party games. We all said that cerny will figure out some magic rt solution. he didnt. we all hoped that sony first party studios will figure out RT optimization. they didnt. ND, GG, Bluepoint, PD, SSM all shipped without RT. BP and PD even advertised RT but either took it out of the game or couldnt get it to work during gameplay. Insomniac is literally the only first party studio thats doing RT and they are sticking with RT reflections. Metro exodus and Control were doing so much more with RT in 2019 because they had access to better hardware.

And Even if AMD has some kind of huge RT breakthrough, the RT capabilities of the next gen consoles are not going to be on par with a 4090. And thats a big if. It's been 5 years since nvidia launched RT, and AMD still cant match the performance.
Outside of Insomniac Games and the folks who did "Returnal," most of Sony's first party studios haven't shipped a proper PS5 games yet.
 
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