1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Looks like it works for other countries. Its not rapid recovery, but steady.
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Greece votes OXI/No on more Austerity measures
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Looks like it works for other countries. Its not rapid recovery, but steady.
No we do not know that yet. Furthermore those countries are in ruins economically. People in Spain are suffering.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Data shows clear upwards trends, even though I get that people might not neccessarily notice that yet.
The question is, were would they be without the help?
Theonik
Member
The upwards trends are a very recent phenomenon and are not guaranteed to be sustainable.
Hell, it's the most popular newspaper in the western world. I believe there are some in Asia that have a larger circulation but that's about it.
I don't think we will get anywhere with this discussion sadly. You argue that your assumption is likely to be true and I think that is a perfectly reasonable thing to belive in. However my argument is, that Varoufakis shouldn't have based his strategy on assumptions but rather try to deal with the reality he was put in. It comes down to how we personally belive in how he should have handled this. Furthermore I don't think Varoufakis temperament played a big role in this at all. If anything, I think he wasn't experienced enough to play his part in this. He is an academic. Dancing on the stage of international politics is something people have to learn first.
Malicious gossip has it that he can be happy how things turned out for him. He can now go tour international universities earning 5 digits for every lecture he gives.
Again I think this is perfectly reasonable thing to belive in, but I can't sign to these type of games. There are too many variables, too many unknowns that factor into the outcome - to the point where I think calling it a big gamble is a fair a assessment. I think the greek population deserves something better than this high stake gamble and I belive the right way to deal with this would have been for Varoufakis doing everything in his might to keep the negotiations alive at a healthy non polemic level. I don't think his way of handling things achieved anything of value, it did the opposite as far as I am concerend.
While I hope you are right on this, at this point I wouldn't be too sure that Greeces stability is that imperative to the eurozone. It was in 2010 but things have changed since then.
Btw. just so people don't get confused: I am mostly in favor of a debt cut and a better offer from greeces creditors. I do however think that greeces current goverment did an absolutly terrible job at handling the current crisis and did everything to make the situation worse.
hobblygobbly
Member
Yes but just like The Sun is in the UK. They share many similarities both in material and readers. Bild is big though, not just in Germany, it's one of the most circulated papers in the world.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Until the Sun on Sunday replaced News of the World under the Sun umbrella, Bild was the highest circulation tabloid in the world.
Stumbled upon a Welt piece about the Illner discussion yesterday. I don't really read Die Welt but damn is their anti-Greece bias obvious. And their comments are filled with AFD people.
http://m.welt.de/vermischtes/articl...-mit-Referenden-in-den-Glaeubigerstaaten.html
http://m.welt.de/vermischtes/articl...-mit-Referenden-in-den-Glaeubigerstaaten.html
Muskieratboi
Member
So, it seems Yanis Varoufakis resigned.
The hat plan failed!
But yeah, I think it's a damn good idea he got the hell out of there. I just hope thing aren't too tumultous in the weeks ahead.
The hat plan failed!
But yeah, I think it's a damn good idea he got the hell out of there. I just hope thing aren't too tumultous in the weeks ahead.
So Greece has voted no. How acceptable of a deal does Greece have to receive now for them to sign? Will Greece hold another referendum after they work out new terms?
Also, I can understand Eurozone nations taking a haircut on their debt, but I fail to see why IMF has to take a haircut or restructure their bailout. Even before IMF gave the bailout to Greece, emerging markets were vocal about lending to a richer European country. Also, considering that experts say that the IMF terms were favorable compared to the terms Asian countries received during the financial crisis in 1997 I don't really see why 188 nations should reconsider their loan to Greece.
Also, I can understand Eurozone nations taking a haircut on their debt, but I fail to see why IMF has to take a haircut or restructure their bailout. Even before IMF gave the bailout to Greece, emerging markets were vocal about lending to a richer European country. Also, considering that experts say that the IMF terms were favorable compared to the terms Asian countries received during the financial crisis in 1997 I don't really see why 188 nations should reconsider their loan to Greece.
It is very doubtful this was a decision made solely by Varoufakis. Tsipras probably asked him to step down and he said yes. Tsipras needs a basis on which to restart negotiations and I am pretty sure greeces creditors would just laugh in their face if they sent Varoufakis at this point.
Die Welt is part of Springer, so of course they are anti-Greece.
Funny thing is, I know Axel Springer's daughter personally. She's a nice lady. Sigh.
Look at dat hair (1993)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...d-live-updates#block-559a4ea3e4b00bdd27707f71
SymbiantXenos
Member
There's resigning and be told to resign. Guess which one it would've fallen under.
Probably not. If Tsipiras gets a deal he can sell, he won't be crazy enough to do it again. Time is still of essence, the banks won't have any money left by the end of the week.
Well, because the IMF is the one that released a report suggesting it. If the IMF doesn't do it, the EU shouldn't do it either.
John Quiggin and his analysis (game theory related) :
The thing is that I would share his sentiments, should one replace Greece with any other Member State.
Most people around Europe understand the situation. We all know that A) Greece is not able to pay back its debts, B) our politicians made false promises during the bank capitalization and C) the best solution would be a haircut with an ironclad agreement related to administrative reforms.
That being said, other partners do not have any reason to trust that Syriza will be able to implement substantive reforms. This crisis reflects the rampant nepotism in that country and who's to say that we won't be having this same discussion after next election again?
The thing is that I would share his sentiments, should one replace Greece with any other Member State.
Most people around Europe understand the situation. We all know that A) Greece is not able to pay back its debts, B) our politicians made false promises during the bank capitalization and C) the best solution would be a haircut with an ironclad agreement related to administrative reforms.
That being said, other partners do not have any reason to trust that Syriza will be able to implement substantive reforms. This crisis reflects the rampant nepotism in that country and who's to say that we won't be having this same discussion after next election again?
Theonik
Member
HarryHengst
Member
Funnily enough here in the Netherlands the first calls for Dijselbloem, the head of the Eurogroup, to resign due to his failure to reach an agreement with Greece have started.
A haircut on the IMF (and ECB) bailout is actually far more pressing than a debt reduction from the EFSF and Eurozone governments. They only have to start paying back the latter in 2020 stretched out over 35 years.
There is actually still a lot of room for guessing, mainly about the timing and the reason why Tsipiras has pressured him. Europe had no problem that Varoufakis was replaced by Tsakalotos and others during the last couple of months. Just keeping Varoufakis out of the meetings was enough. Unless he was also running out of credit in his own party.
The data shows a lost decade of growth across Europe wherever "austerity" was adopted.
michaelius
Banned
Why do we consider this to be an obligation of Eurozone to make any new proposal to Greece which Greece might graciously accept if it meets their expectations ?
Greece said no so they have to make a new proposition that will be acceptable to other eurozone members.
It's not Eurozone who will run out of money next week in ATMs.
PodcastFips
Member
Wait. Varoufakis stepped down?
Not surprising at all, lol. Everyone trying to leave the ship before real shit starts to happen. Tsipras is next.
Not surprising at all, lol. Everyone trying to leave the ship before real shit starts to happen. Tsipras is next.
Theonik
Member
I meant room for guessing that he was pushed. I suppose there is a debate on whether Varoufakis was offended by the notion of again being pulled from the negotiations but that hasn't been a problem before.
Troika was probably hoping to drive both him and Tsipras out, but realised they had failed to do so, and offered this as a token of goodwill. Varoufakis's aloof handling of diplomatic matters probably put him on edge with his party as well.
Varoufakis was too divisive. He would give positive statements to various web publications and then completely backtrack on RT or some such.
It just felt like he was playing a game instead of trying to find serious solutions to the situation.
Yep, I believe so too. Especially in the past few weeks. I like the man but as he said himself, he is not a politician, which could have been a refreshing change had his latest comments towards creditors not been so aggressive, for lack of a better word. Not a very good public speaker IMO, unless he had a speech prepared or rehearsed in advance.
petran79
Banned
He and Draghi should know that they preside over independent authorities, not to be influenced by political decisions. They have to abstain from such ridiculous comments and focus in applying the rules they were chosen to follow. Martin Schulz is another example of how degenerated Social Democracy has become.
One former president of a Greek bank stated that the trustworthiness of the Euro is on the line. If Eurozone cant solve a problem related to their 2 %, what will happen in an even bigger crisis? ECB has to pour money to stabilize the currency, that is what the rules dictate and what M. Draghi has to follow, as a president of an independent authority.
But this is what happens when politics try to influence independent authorities.
Not sure if related, but I've read that Tsípras called Hollande yesterday not long after the poll results, and the French president would have asked him to bring France the hand required to help Greece.
Yep. French FiMi said this morning that the Greeks have to bring a new proposition that will be discussed by the EU members, and not the other way around.
Theonik
Member
He was certainly... Refreshing. But alas that shit just doesn't fly where he stands.
A senior advisory position would have suited him more I think but certainly agitating the hive is going to give some result either way.
Agreed on the senior advisor position but I have a feeling they (Syriza) are probably not going to allow him to speak publicly again (which could be a good thing). When it comes to agitating the hive, if you mean his "terrorists" and other extremely negative comments, I can't help but wonder if Greece could have gotten a better deal (if it gets one at all), had he not said those things.
On German TV a guy from the SPD argued Varoufakis can't keep his promises so he fled.
I_R_ Patch
Banned
God damn it I love this meme
First please excuse me for being ignorant. I'm not a very academic person, nor live in EU but even i know that when you owe a debt to someone, you have an obligation to repay that debt right? That's just common sense right? Especially when the debt is due to your mismanaging with the money that you borrowed? I would like an explanation please.
I just want to understand, not starting an fight, so don't throw brick guys.
I just want to understand, not starting an fight, so don't throw brick guys.
Coriolanus
Banned
Read the op. There's a primer linked there.
In theory yes. In reality we are currently poking a starving old man in the ribs with a stick and ask him to sell his left arm, because he owes us and he already sold his food to repay his first debts.
And because he's already lost his foot he can't partake in the dancing competition to make money with his Sirtaki skills and repay at least some of his debt.
When you put it that way, i can see the problems now. A good strategy to appropriately repay the loan is needed to keep enough minimum living expense for the people.
pretty much.
Annoying Old Party Man
Member
Welp. We just got paid one month in advance. Guess they are expecting a haircut anytime soon.
Now to decide what to do with some of the extra money so I can offload some money from my account (I'm buying a Vita - but it's a symbolic move)
Now to decide what to do with some of the extra money so I can offload some money from my account (I'm buying a Vita - but it's a symbolic move
)Welp. We just got paid one month in advance. Guess they are expecting a haircut anytime soon.
Now to decide what to do with some of the extra money so I can offload some money from my account (I'm buying a Vita - but it's a symbolic move
Send it to Germany, send it to me. I want an Xbox One.
bigmit3737
Member
Would China step in and help Greece back on their feet if indeed Greece is kicked out?
Are there any pros for China to do so?
Are there any pros for China to do so?
Kill Your Masters
Member
Welp. We just got paid one month in advance. Guess they are expecting a haircut anytime soon.
Now to decide what to do with some of the extra money so I can offload some money from my account (I'm buying a Vita - but it's a symbolic move
Wait, in greece? You are about to default but can afford it to get paid in advance?
Alabamaman
Banned
Maybe the poor man should think about selling his 112 tons of gold reserves before giving up any body parts.
Head of podemos is about to go live in Euronews regarding OXI decision :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfaVDgd17Io&ab_channel=euronews(inEnglish)
EDIT: Some internal restructuring announced along with the fact that they agree with the outcome of the referendum. Nothing major.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfaVDgd17Io&ab_channel=euronews(inEnglish)
EDIT: Some internal restructuring announced along with the fact that they agree with the outcome of the referendum. Nothing major.
Theonik
Member
Getting the rest of the Peiraius port.
I don't know how realistic that is but it certainly would rustle the Eurozones/EUs jimmies quite a bit. This conflict is seen as an internal conflict and inviting geopolitical players into this is more than just frowned upon.
The only way this could play out like this in a default situation where Greece decides to say "Nope, we are done with the Eurozone". Current polls indicate Greece doesn't want to abandon the Eurozone though.
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