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Greece votes OXI/No on more Austerity measures

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KDR_11k

Member
German EP president Martin Schulz said on German TV ARD the EU may have to look into preparing humanitarian aid to Greece in the next few days. Grim.

Did they not notice that Greece was a humanitarian crisis for the last few years already? Millions are on the street and starving, hospitals have ceased to function.

Given how (to give them the benefit of the doubt) grossly incompetent the troika has been in handling Greece I'm not surprised by the no vote. I too would doubt that the results of a default and Euro exit would be that much worse than the shit those "institutions" will cause. The IMF projects decades of crisis even with the "rescue program".

The Euro required closer political integration than what we have. Its designers hoped that that would follow naturally after the currency is in place, it didn't. If the EU was a federation like the US then stuff like retirement funds and healthcare would be connected across all states and one state suffering would be compensated for by the gains of another state. A state govt going down would receive aid from the federal govt at the expense of the richer states. And states' policies/union deals would be required to be more homogeneous so e.g. Germany cannot force a wage stagnation while France keeps following the natural path. Also state govts would not negotiate with each other like Germany and Greece are doing, instead the feds would have to decide what to do and they'd be reliant on Greek votes too.

Puerto Rico is badly indebted with a currency not controlled by the local govt but its strong connection to the US makes it not succeptible to a Greek crisis.
 

LJ11

Member
Before I got to bed, seems like Yanis has stepped down.

Love him or hate him, he's one wild/entertaining dude. Who will throw around the red meat going forward?
 

Joni

Member
He is a strange guy, he has been demoted for months already. Tsipiras only sends him when he wants to anger the EU leaders.
 
If his whole strategy ends up working out after all he will surely be hailed as a hero. In any case it was interesting seeing such an unconventional guy interact with the conventional personalities of Europe.
 

oti

Banned
Well, no matter how the rest of Europe sees him, I'm sure that in Greece Varoufakis will be remembered as a hero and defender of democracy.
 

LJ11

Member
He is a strange guy, he has been demoted for months already. Tsipiras only sends him when he wants to anger the EU leaders.

He took a lot of bullets for Tsipras. Made some questionable remarks the last week or so, bordered on out right lies, but I guess that can be expected when you're a politician.

Still I loved the bravado.
 
Soon after the announcement of the referendum results, I was made aware of a certain preference by some Eurogroup participants, and assorted ‘partners’, for my… ‘absence’ from its meetings; an idea that the Prime Minister judged to be potentially helpful to him in reaching an agreement. For this reason I am leaving the Ministry of Finance today.

Sounds like this might have been some sort of condition for an agreement. Or a condition for even starting to consider an agreement.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Heh, Varoufakis even resigns like a boss. I was wondering how much longer he'd tough it out on the role, most career academics I know have never enjoyed the constraints of politics much.
 
And of course Varoufakis cops out now like the con artist he is. What a blight on his country and politics in general. He won't be missed!
 

oti

Banned
uxFUgCn.jpg
 

Rhysser

Banned
And of course Varoufakis cops out now like the con artist he is. What a blight on his country and politics in general. He won't be missed!

I disagree. He fought for what he wanted for months and now that things lead up to the referendum and gave Greece what he thinks is a strong hand it seems the best way to get what he wants is to move to the side, so the European lenders also have a sense of some sort of 'victory', minor as it may be in the face of the referendum. He has no trouble putting his pride aside to do this.
 

Uzzy

Member
Now Yanis can ride into the next Eurogroup meeting, punch Schaeuble in his face, shout 'OXI!' and ride off into the sunset like a hero.
 

oti

Banned
I disagree. He fought for what he wanted for months and now that things lead up to the referendum it seems the best way to get what he wants is to move to the side. He has no trouble putting his pride aside to do this.

And he's an economist. He haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaates politics.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
God fucking dammit. Why?

Because Syriza, Tsipras, and Varoufakis would all still prefer to remain inside the Euro than out of it if offered a sufficiently good deal. They have done everything in their power to try and improve their negotiating strength and Varoufakis has done his work there well, but this is the 11th hour. The emergency meeting on the 7th is the last stand - either Greece gets a good enough offer, or they default and exit the Euro. There's no more referendums or public statements or agitprop, and the bargaining positions are not able to move much further. Tsipras isn't looking for a firebrand any more, he needs a negotiator, and Varoufakis, for all his talents, is not that.
 

Theonik

Member
I disagree. He fought for what he wanted for months and now that things lead up to the referendum and gave Greece what he thinks is a strong hand it seems the best way to get what he wants is to move to the side, so the European lenders also have a sense of some sort of 'victory', minor as it may be in the face of the referendum. He has no trouble putting his pride aside to do this.
Don't bother replying to him. He's just a salty moron judging from the rest of his posts.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Now Yanis can ride into the next Eurogroup meeting, punch Schaeuble in his face, shout 'OXI!' and ride off into the sunset like a hero.

Will contribute a tenner to the Greek bailout just to see this happen.
 
Well, that's a somewhat unexpected turn of events. I would have thought either both would stay or go, depending upon the outcome.

Anyway, in answer to my own question before and in concordance with what others have said, Reuters is reporting that their sources indicate the ECB will leave the capped level of ELA funding unchanged. However, apparently that in itself may precipitate a banking collapse.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Well, that's a somewhat unexpected turn of events. I would have thought either both would stay or go, depending upon the outcome.

Anyway, in answer to my own question before and in concordance with what others have said, Reuters is reporting that their sources indicate the ECB will leave the capped level of ELA funding unchanged. However, apparently that in itself may precipitate a banking collapse.

I am pretty sure that the ECB will probably allow enough assistance to make the 20th if the talks on the 7th go well (if).
 

Rektash

Member
All Varoufakis did was burn bridges. It is completly beyond me how you guys can call this guy a hero. His job was to negotiate a deal with Greeces creditors. He failed that. Greece is closer to a default than ever.
 
Because Syriza, Tsipras, and Varoufakis would all still prefer to remain inside the Euro than out of it if offered a sufficiently good deal. They have done everything in their power to try and improve their negotiating strength and Varoufakis has done his work there well, but this is the 11th hour. The emergency meeting on the 7th is the last stand - either Greece gets a good enough offer, or they default and exit the Euro. There's no more referendums or public statements or agitprop, and the bargaining positions are not able to move much further. Tsipras isn't looking for a firebrand any more, he needs a negotiator, and Varoufakis, for all his talents, is not that.

It makes sense when put that way. They're playing a clever game.

I'm sure the guy will go down in Greek history, I think he's done a fantastic job.
 

Rhysser

Banned
All Varoufakis did was burn bridges. It is completly beyond me how you guys can call this guy a hero. His job was to negotiate a deal with Greeces creditors. He failed that. Greece is closer to a default than ever.

It takes two sides to negotiate successfully, and so far from my following of the situation Greece has moved ever closer to the creditors' demands while the creditors have not budged.

Negotiate doesn't mean accept any deal given to you, and if the other side won't budge you can only do so much. At least this guy played a hand that may force them to budge, as unconventional as it may be (or not, we'll see on Tuesday).
 

Chariot

Member
All Varoufakis did was burn bridges. It is completly beyond me how you guys can call this guy a hero. His job was to negotiate a deal with Greeces creditors. He failed that. Greece is closer to a default than ever.
I don't like him either, but Greece was doomed either way, so might as well try something desperate.
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Negotiate doesn't mean accept any deal given to you, and if the other side won't budge you can only do so much. At least this guy played a hand that may force them to budge, as unconventional as it may be (or not, we'll see on Tuesday).

Yep. Tomorrow is going to be absolutely fascinating; for what will probably be a rather dull and technical affair it will still be one of the most important dates in contemporary European history when people look back on it, on absolutely critical moment for the Eurozone and indeed wider European project.

But for Varoufakis, it was Tuesday.
 

Xando

Member
I am pretty sure that the ECB will probably allow enough assistance to make the 20th if the talks on the 7th go well (if).

ECB council is deciding on ELA today. Can't really see them increase ELA unless something(new proposal?) happens before the council meeting.
 

Ted Striker

Neo Member
All Varoufakis did was burn bridges. It is completly beyond me how you guys can call this guy a hero. His job was to negotiate a deal with Greeces creditors. He failed that. Greece is closer to a default than ever.

He will ride eternal on the highways of Valhalla , shiny and chrome.
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
I think a deal will emerge, or at least a rough idea, on the 7th.

Both parties have too much to lose (Greece default, Ramification on the EU - Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc.)
 
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Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
ECB council is deciding on ELA today. Can't really see them increase ELA unless something(new proposal?) happens before the council meeting.

I think it's pretty unlikely that if Merkel walks out on the 7th thinking "that was pretty productive, we have ourselves a good offer", the ECB will go "unfortunately we can't have an emergency meeting so Greece will still go bankrupt, sorry". If the 7th is satisfactory, the ECB will almost certainly have an extraordinary meeting to allow liquidity to be extended to the 20th to give Greece the time to legislate the reforms officially before they'd otherwise have to default on ECB debt.
 
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