-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Greece votes OXI/No on more Austerity measures
- Thread starter Coriolanus
- Start date
- Status
Coriolanus
Banned
Right. Which is why now Greece will get evicted due to not paying rent.
Vlodril
Member
what? i thought they just promised to back the negotiations (so eu cant hope that a new political party will tow the line unlike siriza which was what they were hoping for).
thats quite different than forming a government from all parties.
gutter_trash
Banned
i thought that the declining Canadian dollar was tied to commodities dropping in price, mainly oil
looks at the price of Gas, it is up. But economists all say the price of oil has been falling.
bamboozled
that housing bubble will get ugly
Alabamaman
Banned
No he didn't.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Sounds like something that neutral guy from Futurama would say
Theonik
Member
Let's wait for tomorrow before we decide either way. Chances are Tonight's meeting between Hollande and Merkel will be important.
At least the IMF admitted that more austerity would not really help Greece in the long run and they could be way nastier to the Greek government than they are right now.
My words exactly!
Member
He helped get the European anti-austerity movement going
His leadership led to the Greeks taking their destiny in their own hands
He got debt reduction for Greece back on the table
He brought refreshing real talk to Europe
He brought much-needed hope to cowed socialists across Europe
Yanis did a damn fine job.
He will be missed.
Varoufakis's last action before he left: He fired Andreas Georgiou the man from the Hellenic Statistic Service who had forged data in 2010 for Papandreou, and make the deficit appear larger than it really was, in order for the IMF to come on board. Till today, that scum was in position, WTF.
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/it...1;ς-ελστατ
Varoufakis will be missed indeed
I'll miss his "let's cut through the political crap, here are economic facts, bitches" attitude. Although he did go too far with that a few times.
petran79
Banned
In Germany they dont mind if you dont do nothing. But there in contrast to Greece you have to be constantly standing, not sit down!
Former French president Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, who was in his time one of the greatest proponents of Greece joining the UE said that Greece has to be put on leave from Euro.
His point being that the Maastricht Treaty is all about a economic and monetary union, and that the economic part of the union is inseparable from the monetary one, and that by not following the rules from the Stability and Growth Pact, Greece cannot stay in this union.
I can see where he's coming from, but...
"Fiscal Compliance 2014-debt" by Spitzl - Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fiscal_Compliance_2014-debt.png#/media/File:Fiscal_Compliance_2014-debt.png"
His point being that the Maastricht Treaty is all about a economic and monetary union, and that the economic part of the union is inseparable from the monetary one, and that by not following the rules from the Stability and Growth Pact, Greece cannot stay in this union.
I can see where he's coming from, but...
"Fiscal Compliance 2014-debt" by Spitzl - Own work. Licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0 via Wikimedia Commons - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fiscal_Compliance_2014-debt.png#/media/File:Fiscal_Compliance_2014-debt.png"
Alabamaman
Banned
Raising taxes maybe? Greeks don't like taxes. Those measures are tame by comparison to what we have in Finland.
Important tidbit: this man was working for the IMF for 21 years, right up until his appointment as head of the Hellenic Statistic Service by George Papandreou, one month after Greece signed the first memorandum
"Half-Life 3 can be released in 48 hours! Pre-orders will open immediately!"
Theonik
Member
I'll really miss him. I never thought I'd actually say that.
there is no such movement
Yeah. Time will tell if you can eat that destiny in your hands or if greeks will get real food
Definately not true (at least at this point). Situation can not be worse for greece atm
Yeah, the refreshing talk is "every country hates greece now" and politicans don't want to negotiate with the greeks
This might be the only valid point
Either way, debt reduction is going to be on the table. Either controlled debt reduction or uncontrolled (default and grexit). The status quo that the troika was aiming for before the referendum is probably no longer on anyones table.
And that's probably why they wanted so desperately to remove Varoufaki. They just couldn't bear having to endure his smug grin as they sat down for a meet.
If that is something they are hung up over I have zero sympathy (I am a Swede), but I assume there are other factors.
Theonik
Member
Did you miss the 'No' support rallies across Eurozone nations? Or Podemos creeping up on the Spanish election?
In a sane world ruled by reason, I would agree. I am not confident this is the case after the last few years.Either way, debt reduction is going to be on the table. Either controlled debt reduction or uncontrolled (default and grexit). The status quo that the troika was aiming for before the referendum is probably no longer on anyones table.
And that's probably why they wanted so desperately to remove Varoufaki. They just couldn't bear having to endure his smug grin as they sat down for a meet.
They have no issue with taxing the rich. What they are concerned about is increasing the tax burden of people who already are under the poverty line.
It's very obvious that the debt as it stands is unsustainable: Syriza knows this, and despite what the ECB might say, they know it too. The best solution, as is often the case, is compromise. Greece has to accept some EU reforms, but the EU has to give a bit as well. Whether that's straight-up debt relief, a haircut, or even extending the life of repayments, there's a number of things that the EU can do to ease the burden so Greece's economy can grow so that they can more effectively make repayments.
Honestly, I like what we're hearing from Syriza, and the effect of Varoufakis' resignation. I don't like the continued hard line the EU is fronting. It needs to compromise. Both parties have to lose so that the Greek people, and the European Union as a whole, wins out.
Honestly, I like what we're hearing from Syriza, and the effect of Varoufakis' resignation. I don't like the continued hard line the EU is fronting. It needs to compromise. Both parties have to lose so that the Greek people, and the European Union as a whole, wins out.
Greeks dont like anything wich results in working harder, longer, higher taxes. And compared to other countries like you said. Its not that crazy. In order for them to survive that mindset needs to change with the Euro or with the Drachma.
Earthstrike
Member
What? No. If you default, you DON'T have to pay what's on the contract. That's the function defaulting serves. It's the equivalent of filing for bankruptcy. You don't have the money, so you pay off as much as you can, and then get a fresh start. (Not exactly true in the case of nations, but close enough.)
My words exactly!
Member
yep. Also a great post i read on the comment section of the above link:
1) See the debt was passed from the banks to the citizens of states:
2) See what contracts will have to be fought, in order to erase debt accepted by the previous governments (tldr: Bank of Greece and Greek State have no right to oppose or withhold assets' confiscation and the debt is now governed by English Law)
3) See how we get the liquidity from the ECB in order to dismantle the country
4) See what the IMF provisioned for GDP and unemployment
5) Here's where we are today and what the US did in the same situation ( defaulted )
Theonik
Member
Thank you for your expert opinion on the Greeks and southern European states. Would you like a job to teach those southern untermensch your glorious hardworking ways? Sounds like they need all the help they can get to see the error of their ways and your wisdom is key to that end. Oh great scholar.
Absolutely, the system has to change. No question about that.
But:
?
Come on, you should be smarter than this.
There's no need for this. Please stop it. You look like a fool.
Alabamaman
Banned
The problem with raising taxes only for the rich is that there are so few of them.
My words exactly!
Member
You are wrong. You can make a case about productivity (i agree there) but labour working hours in Greece are among the longest globally, much moreso than Germany.You could read something other than Bild
You can make fun of it. But the mindset just needs to change.
Lol assuming i am from Germany.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
At very least, you are being an ignorant, xenophobic bellend.
This is a good Point...
Coriolanus
Banned
All of the people saying that they are sad to see Varoufakis go do know that he remains a member of parliament and has only resigned from the FinMin position, yes?
No, you're a Racist from the Netherlands. At least you're pretty open about it.
Theonik
Member
*shrug* Tis my job.
Not really a problem. Proportional taxation is designed with this idea in mind. Higher income tiers are meant to subsidise lower income tiers which usually have a higher footprint than the amount of tax that can be reasonably collected. There are practical limitations on how much tax is collectable based on the money that is actually available to collect. Since the crisis and with the huge hit the Greek economy took as a result the amount of uncollected tax has skyrocketed to insane levels that not even the Greek state believes is collectable. More taxes at that money essentially take even more money out of the real economy and make the situation even worse. And a large portion of that doesn't even go to the Greek state but to loan repayments.
So, it's a huge problem.
My words exactly!
Member
Well my point still stands, your northern stereotype of greeks is contrary to the facts
Yep, he will be heard, but he will be no longer calling the shots right?
German FiMi: Any agreement must be based on the Treaty of ESM
http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/it...952;ήκη-του-esm
What does the above mean, financial-Gaf?
Funny how you can be a racist when you say a mindset of a country needs to change in order to survive.
Crazy how people just throw that word arround these days.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
At least 90% of the national representatives on the EC have to agree (i.e., ECB can't act unilaterally). Other things too, but this the main one.
Yeah, keep digging.
Good comeback.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Germany and France have defaulted 17 times. Many other countries have defaulted. So some Greeks may think, "Why not us?" They've done it before after all. Additionally, I'm sure the future of the economy/the failed worldview of the troika about deregulation, deficits, and debt have emboldened some folks to try something new. Seems rational to me. I don't like other people telling me what I can do and what I can't do if it's up to me.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
You claimed that the North was working while the South was being lazy as per usual.
You are an ignorant, xenophobic bellend.
Spanish charts used since those are the ones I had readily available and because I'm overdue for my siesta like the lazy Spaniard that I am.
Sure. And if your contract is with the sovereign nation of Greece, all you need to do is find a court that the sovereign nation of Greece recognizes, i.e. one in Greece, and get them to give you a judgement that Greece has to pay you. Should be easy, right?
My words exactly!
Member
Υou get facts that disprove your claim, so what's your comeback like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwLHjV8ID_Y
You think? Thanks! As a lazy Southerner getting such praise from a Racist means a lot to me.
srsly
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked