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[ksan]

Not quite. In pre-election interviews he openly declared that one of the goals syriza should seek is institutional reforms, especially targeting Greece's Big Fishes.

Alas, once they got to power, he was performing the function of a FinMin, which entails... you guessed it: focussing on financial issues.

Plus solving institutional issues takes quite a bit longer and all. It's a change of culture.

Yeah, you're right, I was just unclear. What I meant is exactly what you said, that the had to focus on the financial issues after being elected as the minister of finance.

And while some institutional problems take longer time, some others can start to be solved through legislation quite quickly (obviously the effects aren't always instantaneous)

He seems like a pragmatic man however, so let's hope that I'm wrong on the count of wanting to be the captain of a ship bordering to sinking.

 

[Joni]

I look forward to Juncker's meeting with Harriet Harman (or whoever is leading the UK Labour party) in the run up to the UK's referendum on EU membership. Great politicking Mr President!

You think Juncker wont be talking to all British leaders by then? He will. Iy might also be intersting to note he is talking someone from his own EVP party in this case iirc.

 

[My words exactly!]

Speaking of Big Greek Fishes, fuckhead Bobolas is at it again. His lapdog Potami's leader is said to have been proposed by EU to replace Kammenos in a Syriza government coallition.
Also, guess who had a stake in privatizing Thessaloniki's water service a couple of years ago and cooperated with Sofina company... that employs Guy Verhofstadt!
http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=62406

Man the pieces come together

Guy Verhofstadt, GDF Suez and the privatization of Greek water

But there’s more to it. Sofina, according to its own statements, has a stake in the energy multinational, GDF Suez. Indeed its impact is so important that the fund has a seat on the board of Suez. Now, the plot thickens: Suez’s full subsidiary, Suez Environnement (in which Sofina also holds a stake ) is participating in one of the two consortia that in Greece have reached the final phase of the privatization of EYATH, the state-owned company that manages the water services for Thessaloniki, the second biggest Greek city.

In its bid for the Greek water company, Suez is not alone. It is complemented by Aktor, one of the most powerful business groups in Greece, with a leading role in construction, highway concessions, waste management and… now water. Aktor is controlled by a Greek family with a pivotal role in the so called ‘triangle of power ’, a nexus of media, business and politics in Greece. By most forecasts the Suez - Aktor consortium is considered the favorite to win the bid.

In Greece’s 'rotten' politics we have a word for the conflict of interests that plagues the political world: ‘diaploki’, which literally means intertwined interests. How far from this definition does Mr Verhofstadt’s paradigm stand?

The paradox of the Greek water privatization is that on paper everybody seems to be against it. This past Sunday, more than 200,000 citizens in Thessaloniki voted in an unofficial referendum against the water privatization by an overwhelming majority of 98%. The referendum faced a last minute ban by the government who threatened the organizers with prosecution. Even Michel Barnier, the Commissioner for Internal Market and Services, clarified in a written statement back in 2013 that the Commission is not promoting the privatization of water services and attempted to reassure citizens of the fact saying, “the best solution now appears to remove water from the scope of the concessions directive.” And yet the privatization of the water companies in Athens and Thessaloniki goes on as it was originally stipulated in the memoranda signed between the Greek government and the EU Council.

 

[PJV3]

You think Juncker wont be talking to all British leaders by then? He will. Iy might also be intersting to note he is talking someone from his own EVP party in this case iirc.

They will all be in favour of staying in (if negotiations work for Cameron) I doubt he will be seen with old Nigel.

There's barely a gnat's chuff between them, if he invites someone to a public platform to call Dave an amateur during negotiations I will vote to stay in.

 

[M°°nblade]

Guy Verhofstadt plenary speech on Greece with Alexis Tsipras 8-7-2015

Edit: poster before but now YT link

Also, guess who had a stake in privatizing Thessaloniki's water service a couple of years ago and cooperated with Sofina company... that employs Guy Verhofstadt!
http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=62406

Man the pieces come together

How ironic that Guy Verhofstadt, after his hot plenary speech how the Greek political privileges must end, will receive 327.784€ for the restauration his private estate in Ghent. Various governments will subsidise 40% of the total costs of 820.000€ for this renovation.This got approved last week, while the federal belgian federal government has eliminated most fundings for energy saving measures for regular citizens.

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/v...ro-voor-privewoning/article-normal-45800.html

 

[ksan]

Speaking of Big Greek Fishes, fuckhead Bobolas is at it again. His lapdog Potami's leader is said to have been proposed by EU to replace Kammenos in a Syriza government coallition.
Also, guess who had a stake in privatizing Thessaloniki's water service a couple of years ago and cooperated with Sofina company... that employs Guy Verhofstadt!
http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=62406

Man the pieces come together

Further analysis of the former Belgian First Minister's declaration of interests (pdf in Dutch) reveals that this is just one of his ‘sidelines’. In addition to Sofina, Mr Verhofstadt is a member of the board of another two multinational firms and EIPA (the European Institute of Public Administration). Each of these positions is paid.

lmao, quality journalism
public doc and using the words further analysis

How ironic that Guy Verhofstadt, after his hot plenary speech how the Greek political privileges must end, will receive 327.784€ for the restauration his private estate in Ghent. Various governments will subsidise 40% of the total costs of 820.000€ for this renovation.This got approved last week, while the federal belgian federal government has eliminated most fundings for energy saving measures for regular citizens.

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/v...ro-voor-privewoning/article-normal-45800.html

How is differentiating your private economy compared to a state's economy ironic?
While it's ridiculous that it might be subsidized, it's about as ironic as if state officials of a state which is indebted complains about the private indebtness. The mechanisms are quite different.

 

[Joni]

He is literally the last Belgian that deserved to critize Greece, he wasted taxpayer money like there was no tomorrow.

 

[Theonik]

How ironic that Guy Verhofstadt, after his hot plenary speech how the Greek political privileges must end, will receive 327.784€ for the restauration his private estate in Ghent. Various governments will subsidise 40% of the total costs of 820.000€ for this renovation.This got approved last week, while the federal belgian federal government has eliminated most fundings for energy saving measures for regular citizens.

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/ve...mal-45800.html

Wait, people were fond of his speech? It was one of the most empty pieces of drivel I have heard.

 

[sflufan]

The Athens Hilton appears to have gotten a bit ahead of itself.

 

[My words exactly!]

Wait, people were fond of his speech? It was one of the most empty pieces of drivel I have heard.

Yes there were... Guess what those people voted last Sunday

 

[ksan]

The Athens Hilton appears to have gotten a bit ahead of itself.

Well, a Citi employee came up with the idea of bailing out only the Greek banks rather than the state, and while being an interesting and unconventional idea, had its smallest problem with being completely unfeasible politically. So, maybe they're preparing for that, with the state defaulting.

 

[oti]

The Athens Hilton appears to have gotten a bit ahead of itself.

They played us like a damn fiddle!

 

[Theonik]

Ok, 10 days of rebellion are enough. Tsipras, sign the damn MoU so we can get on with our lives.

Pansy

 

[M°°nblade]

How is differentiating your private economy compared to a state's economy ironic?

I'd say the two are connected when the state helps you differentiate your private economy by subsidising it for 40% with tax money.

 

[petran79]

Hey revolution is not my cup of tea as it seems!

Seeing how much our companies got fucked by just a week of capital controls, I find our economy legally retarded and in need of babysitting for another half a decade!

Spoiler

Also, gib euros

I too face a dilemma!
I cant buy games on Steam! Credit cards are blocked! Temptation is too high!

 

[My words exactly!]

I too face a dilemma!
I cant buy games on Steam! Credit cards are blocked! Temptation is too high!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Osfy-Btwj3M

Hey revolution is not my cup of tea as it seems!
Seeing how much our companies got fucked by just a week of capital controls, I find our economy legally retarded and in need of babysitting for another half a decade!

Spoiler

Also, gib euros

You 're Greek damnit, don't yield!!

 

[norinrad]

How ironic that Guy Verhofstadt, after his hot plenary speech how the Greek political privileges must end, will receive 327.784€ for the restauration his private estate in Ghent. Various governments will subsidise 40% of the total costs of 820.000€ for this renovation.This got approved last week, while the federal belgian federal government has eliminated most fundings for energy saving measures for regular citizens.

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/v...ro-voor-privewoning/article-normal-45800.html

I always get attacked in the Ukraine thread, but this guy should be in jail, he's always been bad news, after that shit he pulled in Ukraine almost two years ago was the catalyst to some of the misery that the Ukrainian people see themselves in today.

 

[KingSnake]

I too face a dilemma!
I cant buy games on Steam! Credit cards are blocked! Temptation is too high!

On the other hand after Grexit you will probably get Russian-like prices for games on Steam. At least for a while.

 

[oti]

http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/v...ro-voor-privewoning/article-normal-45800.html

This reads like a German got drunk and started typing.

In other words: This language is super adorable.

 

[ksan]

I'd say the two are connected when the state helps you differentiate your private economy by subsidising it for 40% with tax money.

That's not what I asked though, and now you're saying something completely different.

 

[ElTorro]

So it looks like the new proposal Greece is formulating could feature 12 billion in tax rises and spending cuts. This is just a few days after they campaigned against an 8-9 billion austerity package in the referendum.

This is going to require a serious amount of spin for the Greek people to swallow.

The only way their reform proposal can target that figure is by containing tons of fantasy taxes (like 5G network incomes). One of the criticism they received last time is that their tax income projections were ridiculous, especially given how ineffective they are in collecting current taxes and eliminating black labor.

 

[Theonik]

To be fair, previous administrations have been woefully ineffective at collective tax income. (though not as much as they are typically portrayed for normal Greeks pre-crisis)
Not just because it is a very hard problem to solve, but because they lacked the desire to rustle the feathers of their buddies that put them in power.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I wouldn't be surprised that Tsipras sacked Varoufakis because they agree he would replace him if shit its the fan. Tsipras can sign a bad deal just to get things going, then face a backlash at home and call for elections after stepping down if needed. Varoufakis could run on cancelling the agreement and an outright Grexit of the Euro. I think he would win because in the scenario the population would be really mad and no longer hoping for someone to find a deal with the Troika but just to break their chains for good. No one would be more likely to win.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

If Greece will sign a new deal that will continue the old austerity way after the circus with referendum and all I can see the Greek populace completely lose faith in their democratic process.

 

[chadskin]

2 hours, 30 minutes until the midnight deadline Brussels time. Oh boy.

 

[KingSnake]

If Greece will sign a worse agreement that the first proposed one and with no debt cut/relief it will still be bankrupt de facto and with no chance of recovery and/or fully repaying the debt, as even Schäuble admitted today. So I don't understand what would be the point of that other than Tsipras being scared to death.

 

[ElTorro]

If Greece will sign a new deal that will continue the old austerity way after the circus with referendum and all I can see the Greek populace completely lose faith in their democratic process.

Yeah. I would guess that either the 12 billion rumor is false or the proposal is full of fantasy taxes that, aside from being unrealistic, would spare everyone but the richest. Even if they don't really plan on bringing this proposal through, the mere fact of putting a proposal out that violates their referendum that clearly would cost them at home.

 

[Theonik]

If Greece will sign a new deal that will continue the old austerity way after the circus with referendum and all I can see the Greek populace completely lose faith in their democratic process.

Thankfully for them the Greek populace already has absolutely no confidence in the Greek democratic process!

 

[Stinkles]

They played us like a damn fiddle!

You're thinking of Rome.

 

[NickFire]

I'm having a hard time understanding how the Greek people are better off by exiting. Won't failing to pay their debts prevent anyone from outside Greece wanting anything to do with their internal currency?

 

[chadskin]

YanniKouts: #Greece reforms' proposal sent to the Institutions and #Eurogroup's Dijsselbloem ~official

https://twitter.com/yannikouts/status/619227746598821889

#itshappening

 

[sflufan]

I'm having a hard time understanding how the Greek people are better off by exiting. Won't failing to pay their debts prevent anyone from outside Greece wanting anything to do with their internal currency?

The New Drachma will be absolutely toxic and near worthless in global currency markets and the price that Greeks will pay for imported necessities will skyrocket. There will be many years of intense pain for the Greek populace.

However, they will again have control over their monetary policy which will enable them to essentially "inflate" their way to a more reasonable debt burden.

 

[Theonik]

I'm having a hard time understanding how the Greek people are better off by exiting. Won't failing to pay their debts prevent anyone from outside Greece wanting anything to do with their internal currency?

Not really no. Defaulting actually increases the value of the new currency as markets do not expect that you would Zimbabwe yourself out of your debt.

As for why they'd be better than continuing in the current arrangement, Greece, has for all intents and purposes defaulted. The distinction at the moment is purely political and diplomatic.

No-one actually expects them to pay. They in essence see many of the adverse effects of a default without any benefit.

Edit:

The New Drachma will be absolutely toxic and near worthless in global currency markets and the price that Greeks will pay for imported necessities will skyrocket. There will be many years of intense pain for the Greek populace.

However, they will again have control over their monetary policy which will enable them to essentially "inflate" their way to a more reasonable debt burden.

Imports will be painful for the next months to couple of years after the default but the value of the new currency should quickly rise, the resulting drop in importing as Greek people can't afford them means their trade deficit will drop in effect increasing the value of their currency.

 

[Ether_Snake]

It makes sense if Tsipras just wants to call elections on a Grexit mandate. Obviously he would step down so someone else can run on that mandate. Syriza would manage to win again if they run on that with a new leader since they can say they had no choice really without a mandate for Grexit due to Troika pressure.

I think this is what's happening, it's a trick and the Troika cannot avoid it unless they kick Greece out themselves.

 

[ElTorro]

I know it's not important, but since we are on NeoGAF... in case of a Grext, will GreekGAF still be able to purchase video games, or will MGS5 cost 10 trillion in that new currency?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I know it's not important, but since we are on NeoGAF... in case of a Grext, will GreekGAF still be able to purchase video games, or will MGS5 cost 10 trillion in that new currency?

They always got DotA.

This was Varoufakis's plan all along wasn't it?

 

[KingSnake]

It makes sense if Tsipras just wants to call elections on a Grexit mandate. Obviously he would step down so someone else can run on that mandate. Syriza would manage to win again if they run on that with a new leader since they can say they had no choice really without a mandate for Grexit due to Troika pressure.

I think this is what's happening, it's a trick and the Troika cannot avoid it unless they kick Greece out themselves.

But Syriza will vote the reforms agreed with EU in the Parliament (supposedly starting tomorrow). How can they run after that on the mandate of Grexit? After that only Golden Dawn will be able to promise Grexit.

This was Varoufakis's plan all along wasn't it?

Unless he makes some statement tonight, I don't see how this is viable.

 

[chadskin]

Das griechische Reformpaket ist nun in Brüssel!
Alexis Tsipras (40) war angetreten, die Experten der Troika aus seinem Land zu werfen – nun lässt sich der Griechen-Premier sein letztes Angebot an die Geldgeber von Troika-Experten schreiben!

Nach BILD-Informationen ist das Angebot, das Tsipras nach Brüssel und die Euro-Finanzminister geschickt hat, in wesentlichen Punkten von Spezialisten der Gläubiger-Troika aus EU-Kommission, Europäischer Zentralbank (EZB) und Internationalem Währungsfond (IWF) entstanden!

BILD reports the new reform proposal was essentially written by members of the three institutions.

 

[sflufan]

BILD reports the new reform proposal was essentially written by members of the three institutions.

So how the hell is he going to sell this to the Hellenic populace?

 

[Theonik]

So how the hell is he going to sell this to the Hellenic populace?

He doesn't have to. Welcome to representational democracy.

 

[ElTorro]

Should all of this turn put to be true, and should all parties in the end really agree on a 13 billion austerity program mainly formulated by the Institutions, then I would officially declare to not understand anymore what's going on. Unless they shoehorned some huge debt relief into that proposal that offsets the austerity measures. No way Syriza can sell this to the Greek people otherwise.

 

[Torraz]

Should all of this turn put to be true, and should all parties in the end really agree on a 13 billion austerity program mainly formulated by the Institutions, then I would officially declare to not understand anymore what's going on.

Self-serving political and institutional elites.

 

[ElTorro]

This is a good opportunity to remind ourselves that politicians, while we assume that they are playing multi-dimensional hyperchess according to a logical Game-of-Thrones-like masterplan, are just people, and not necessarily our brightest and most rational and competent ones.

 

[chadskin]

SpiegelPeter: #Eurozone authorities say they have received the #Greece economic reform proposal

https://twitter.com/spiegelpeter/status/619236588162301952

 

[Ether_Snake]

How do you go for Grexit without the population's support? You get the worst deal you can get, and call for elections. Syriza can run on that if they want, they just need new candidates here and there.

Of course, the damage will have to be done first to get enough support fir Grexit, but any agreement will do enough.

 

[Coriolanus]

This is a good opportunity to remind ourselves that politicians, while we assume that they are playing multi-dimensional hyperchess according to a logical Game-of-Thrones-like masterplan, are just people, and not necessarily our brightest and most rational and competent ones.

You do know that every time that someone mentions hyperchess they taking the piss, yes?

If this is true, it is merely highly flashy corruption.

How do you go for Grexit without the population's support? You get the worst deal you can get, and call for elections. Syriza can run on that if they want, they just need new candidates here and there.

If syriza actually presented a plan with 13 billion in cuts after doing the referendum, the party is fucked.

 

[PdotMichael]

This is a good opportunity to remind ourselves that politicians, while we assume that they are playing multi-dimensional hyperchess according to a logical Game-of-Thrones-like masterplan, are just people, and not necessarily our brightest and most rational and competent ones.

Dunno, Tsipras delievers exactly that what you would expect from a populist.

 

[ClosingADoor]

How do you go for Grexit without the population's support? You get the worst deal you can get, and call for elections. Syriza can run on that if they want, they just need new candidates here and there.

Of course, the damage will have to be done first to get enough support fir Grexit, but any agreement will do enough.

You think Tsipras is doing this on purpose to get out of the Euro?

It is their plan. No way he gets re-elected if he goes this route.

Maybe they get a lot of cuts in return, or that 13 billion is over a lot and lot of years.

 

[Casimir]

I know it's not important, but since we are on NeoGAF... in case of a Grext, will GreekGAF still be able to purchase video games, or will MGS5 cost 10 trillion in that new currency?

The latter will most likely happen (trillion is a bit hyperbolic), and they might be placed into their own market or merged into one of the second/third world regions*.


*Steam regions allow publishers to adjust the prices of games to account for rates of poverty relative to the stronger economies of the US and parts of Europe.

 

[ElTorro]

Dunno, Tsipras delievers exactly that what you would expect from a populist.

Killing himself politically by submitting a proposal that (supposedly, we don't have it yet after all) goes 100% against the pompous referendum he just held and rallied for a few days ago?