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Greece votes OXI/No on more Austerity measures

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PJV3

PJV3

Member
Theonik said:
If he really thinks that, it pretty much proves how much of a moron he is.
I mean they strung him up and run him through thorns for the past 5 months because 'Lol there was a deal we don't re-negotiate you signed it now, get fucked if you don't like it we'll just force your country to starve because we own you now'

On what grounds would he believe that in say another 5 months they don't just fuck him over again.
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He could secretly tape the conversations :D

They have to offer something, he backs down first like a good boy and then they can be nice.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
ElTorro said:
f8Ng3rg.png
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Haha, this is going to get some use over the next few days / weeks
 
O

oti

Banned
Seeing all of this, I really really hope there's a debt cut/restructuring on the horizon. Otherwise... oh boy.
 
M

My words exactly!

Member
The differences appear to be no defence cuts,and Greek Elctric company is not sold (Troika even wanted the greek subsoil).

Abyway, we'll see it passes and ofcourse, if a debt cut occurs (which is very important)
 
O

oti

Banned
NickFire said:
What exactly does pressure from France equate to?
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Do we have some French peeps in here? What is the media coverage concerning this topic? In Germany we know that France is nicer towards Greece but no one really cares. Isn't it kinda worrying to the French people that Hollande's views aren't important?
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Reading the proposals make me scratch my head.

Also, a small reminder:

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble has admitted that the IMF is correct in saying Greece needs a haircut to cope with its debt - then poured cold water on the haircut.

He told a press conference in Frankfurt: "Debt sustainability is not feasible without a haircut and I think the IMF is correct in saying that."
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C

Coriolanus

Banned
10. Privatization
· The Board of Directors of the Hellenic Republic Asset Development Fund will approve its Asset Development Plan which will include for privatisation all the assets under HRDAF as of 31/12/2014; and the Cabinet will endorse the plan.
· To facilitate the completion of the tenders, the authorities will complete all government pending actions including those needed for the regional airports, TRAINOSE, Egnatia, the ports of Pireaus and Thessaloniki and Hellinikon (precise list in Technical Memorandum). This list of actions is updated regularly and the Government will ensure that all pending actions are timely implemented.
· The government and HRADF will announce binding bid dates for Piraeus and Thessaloniki ports of no later than end-October 2015, and for TRAINOSE ROSCO, with no material changes in the terms of the tenders.
· The government will transfer the state's shares in OTE to the HRADF.
· Take irreversible steps for the sale of the regional airports at the current terms with the winning bidder already selected.
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yeaaaah this, the pension stuff and the military spending? aint no way in hell it woulda cleared the greek parliament without all them alliances with ND and Pasok.

Syriza capitulated. GG

I mean, fucksake, they talking about halving heating oil subsidies.
 
M

maquiladora

Member
BBC Economics Correspondent

Duncan Weldon ‏@DuncanWeldon

This - http://www.naftemporiki.gr/finance/story/976680/the-greek-reform-proposals … - looks v similar to the 26th June draft plan. The one voted down in the referendum.

Basically: Syriza get presented with 26th June plan, call referendum, win referendum, Creditors hit back with "deal or Grexit", Greeks fold.

Caveat: I have only quickly skimmed the document. But hard to see what the referendum has achieved other than lost time/economic problems.
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Theonik

Theonik

Member
oti xero said:
Do we have some French peeps in here? What is the media coverage concerning this topic? In Germany we know that France is nicer towards Greece but no one really cares. Isn't it kinda worrying to the French people that Hollander's views aren't important?
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Welcome to the democracy of the modern EU.

My words exactly! said:
The differences appear to be no defence cuts,and Greek Elctric company is not sold (Troika even wanted the greek subsoil).

Abyway, we'll see it passes and ofcourse, if a debt cut occurs (which is very important)
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There are defence cuts. In fact it is the increased cuts proposed by the Troika. The changes are keeping the hotel tax breaks, not removing the shipowner tax breaks, keeping the island tax subsidies
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Theonik said:
There are defence cuts. In fact it is the increased cuts proposed by the Troika. The changes are keeping the hotel tax breaks, not removing the shipowner tax breaks, keeping the island tax subsidies
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The proposal doubles the VAT for hotels. Current appears to be 6.5%. Also states that they`ll remove island subsidies in the short term.

Seriously, it's complete and utter capitulation. Doesn't even flat out states that it seeks debit relief or restructuring in exchange. 3.5% Primary surplus by 2018. Fuck everything.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Either the translated doc we seeing on that site is the bullshit old proposal being passed as the new one, or Tsipras is about to become the most hated man in greece.
 
O

oti

Banned
The creditors now have to agree, right? They got what they wanted, unless Greece wants the debt cut in exchange.
 
A

Acorn

Member
Fucking defence spending being ringfenced again by the eurozone is such a bloody scandal. Shame on all the media practically everywhere for not making noise about that bullshit.

Disgusting.
 
S

Syriel

Member
tapantaola said:
WTF?

217.21 new drachmas is equal to 241.04 dollars? That can't be right...
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If you read the story, it got changed to euros a few days later after Bloomberg called the bank and the hotel to find out what's up.

Most likely case is that payment processors all have the drachma coded into their system, currently set as 1:1 with the euro. If/when a drachma is officially released, it'll float like any other currency, but the point is, the payment systems are in place.

If Greece switched tomorrow, the credit card networks would handle it.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Paul Mason is floating the idea that the whole thing is basically meant to completely skullfuck the greek economy beyond belief by doing exactly what the creditors want. If they do not couple those measures with debt relief, it'll crash and burn spectacularly.

Which, evidently, is a downright suicidal and grotesquely obtuse way of playing 11th dimesion chess for fucking real.

Dan27 said:
I think we know right now why Varoufakis resigned....
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Quite. Fuck having your name even remotely close to an obscenity like that.
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
Syriel said:
http://www.redesignrevolution.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/golden-retriever.jpg [IMG][/QUOTE]

Seriously, I am firmly back in the they-are-incompetent camp. The same people who caused so many unnecessary Euro summits without ever preparing a professional document with their specific demands apparently thought that the Eurozone would be impressed by that referendum with its nonsensical question.
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C

chadskin

Member
Scenarios I find likely:
  • Syriza breaks up along its moderate and more extremist cleavage, Tsipras forms national unity government, reelections in September
  • Syriza-ANEL coalition breaks up, Syriza forms government with To Potami, Tsipras hangs on
  • Syriza-ANEL coalition breaks up, Syriza forms government with To Potami, Tsipras gets replaced
  • No fucks given
2, 3, 4 are probably the preferred outcome of the creditors while 1 could lead to instability.
 
O

oti

Banned
So what did the French experts actually do to help Greece to come up with this proposal? Printing out the old proposal and handing it to them?
 
H

hydrophilic attack

Member
The only way this makes sense to me, is that they are trying to pressure Germany into debt relief. Here they capitulate and give the creditors everything they want. It would look really bad if Germany doesn't agree to debt release after this. If everything falls through because they are not offering debt relief, Germany gets the blame, not Greece.
 
A

Acorn

Member
hydrophilic attack said:
The only way this makes sense to me, is that they are trying to pressure Germany into debt relief. Here they capitulate and give the creditors everything they want. It would look really bad if Germany doesn't agree to debt release after this. If everything falls through because they are not offering debt relief, Germany gets the blame, not Greece.
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Germanys finance minister is a fan of watching the world burn.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
hydrophilic attack said:
The only way this makes sense to me, is that they are trying to pressure Germany into debt relief. Here they capitulate and give the creditors everything they want. It would look really bad if Germany doesn't agree to debt release after this. If everything falls through because they are not offering debt relief, Germany gets the blame, not Greece.
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The problem with that is that they didn't need to hold a fucking referendum to do that.
I mean, fucksake mate, i was on #teamsyriza from the start, but even if that's the plan, it's a bloody fucking stupid plan.
 
C

Chariot

Member
ElTorro said:
Seriously, I am firmly back in the they-are-incompetent camp. The same people who caused so many unnecessary Euro summits without ever preparing a professional document with their specific demands apparently thought that the Eurozone would be impressed by that referendum with its nonsensical question.
Click to expand...
MqNBJ.jpg
 
E

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
hydrophilic attack said:
The only way this makes sense to me, is that they are trying to pressure Germany into debt relief. Here they capitulate and give the creditors everything they want. It would look really bad if Germany doesn't agree to debt release after this. If everything falls through because they are not offering debt relief, Germany gets the blame, not Greece.
Click to expand...

And while they do this, Germany be like:

German-Finance-Minister-Wolfgang-Schaeuble-visits-Vietnam.jpg
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
Coriolanus said:
Paul Mason is floating the idea that the whole thing is basically meant to completely skullfuck the greek economy beyond belief by doing exactly what the creditors want. If they do not couple those measures with debt relief, it'll crash and burn spectacularly.

Which, evidently, is a downright suicidal and grotesquely obtuse way of playing 11th dimesion chess for fucking real.



Quite. Fuck having your name even remotely close to an obscenity like that.
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Exactly, like I said the Troika is being played. The only way for Grexit to happen is to have the people demand it. Do you really think Greece can survive such deadly measures? The Troika can say they got a deal all thry want, they are basically signing the exit of Greece.

Tsipras knows this well, they all do, just reading the document is clear they are purposely giving in. Tsipras will step down, and a revolt will come down the line. So Grexit is pretty much certain.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
The greek people need to eat each other and their pets, i'm sure that will spur the EU in to action.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I'm baffled by this, really. By all that happened in the past weeks. I find no other explanation than Varoufakis convinced Tsipras to play the tough card with the referendum and all, but Tsipras shat his pants when NO got the big majority and backed out of the game. That would explain why they were unprepared after, because probably the idea was to present a more tough proposal and that was cancelled and send nothing. If this is not the true, I got nothing, unless Tsipras has multiple personality.
 
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