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[Buggy Loop]

And they could have a mode where they choose to not heavily lean into raytracing, both for reflections and for global illumination. Or halve the crowd or car density. Or do whatever else that is needed to increase framerates. If they wanted. No technological miracle is ever needed, except have video hardware that could push out another image to a TV 60 times per second.

I don’t think anyone is saying there won’t be 60 fps modes

But it won’t be fidelity @ 60 fps on pro like we’ve seen promoted so far for other games.

Removing ray tracing might not be possible, we have no idea if they’ll plan to do a rasterization version and a ray tracing one, or wanting to save time and artists they went full ray tracing with no intention to have an hybrid. Ray tracing makes the most sense exactly for open worlds where things can be very dynamic. Would take artists an incredible amount of time to place lights and bake lighting for it.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Ah yes "experts" saying things

If Rockstar wants to put a 60 fps mode in GTA6, it will have one. Even on base PS5

 

[Ironman_Bad]

Gta 6 is being built around the PS5 and Series X not the ps5pro these guys are really starting to sound like emotional clowns. I predict a 60 fps performance mode on ps5 and series x be it 720p or 900p upscaled to 1080p and a 1440p performance mode on ps5pro upscaled to 4k

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Digital foundry have been wrong on too many occasions to take their word as gospel any longer, I'll hold out hope for 60. Interesting thing with the way R* rolls is, whenever it releases, unless the NextBox is out, the best experience will be on PS5Pro for a year or two. Doesn't matter how deep your pockets are, either you play it as released or you wait ~18 months.

I do think that if GTA6 was going to be 60 FPS on PS5 Pro, Sony would have lead with that. Either it won't be or they're not sure.

 

[kevboard]

Removing ray tracing might not be possible, we have no idea if they’ll plan to do a rasterization version and a ray tracing one, or wanting to save time and artists they went full ray tracing with no intention to have an hybrid.

it all comes down to the GI here.
rockstar will not ship a game that has bad looking GI, even if it is only for the performance mode.

replacing RT reflections is easy, they already have an SSR layer on top of the RT reflections it seems, so that's already implemented.
it's all about that GI.

how a bad rasterised fallback can look like can be seen in Talos Principle 2 on Series S for example. there are some parts of that game that just look dramatically different on Series S due to the lack of RT GI, and it can look quite weird. and that's a very static game with no dynamic weather or time of day either, both of which complicates things further.

 

[Three]

I can't think of a single open world game this generation that matches the complexity or density that the GTA VI trailer showed.

Starfield now targets 4K (1440p)/60 too but it doesn't have anywhere near that kind of density.

Complexity in what, are we talking crowd density? You can just cut that back in performance mode and it wouldn't even affect resolution anyway. Just like the original Spiderman did in performance mode. I've not seen anything to suggest this is some CPU heavy game that couldn't be done on a PS4 with severly reduced settings let alone a PS5 Pro. Is there actually any credibility in suggesting it's a mostly CPU limited game? What exactly suggests that from what we have?

 

[Insanemaelstrom]

I won't put much stock into what DF says, the only ones who knows about gta6 performance are the devs. DF, will knowledgeable, have no way of knowing how gta6 is going to perform.

As a proof, I present you this gem from before ps5's launch wherein they were saying how Spiderman 2018 on ps5 is unlikely to have 60fps, and how 60fps is going to be a dream for next gen consoles.

 

[DinoD]

This thread is pissing in the wind.

 

[adamsapple]

Complexity in what, are we talking crowd density? You can just cut that back in performance mode and it wouldn't even affect resolution anyway. Just like the original Spiderman did in performance mode. I've not seen anything to suggest this is some CPU heavy game that couldn't be done on a PS4 with severly reduced settings let alone a PS5 Pro. Is there actually any credibility in suggesting it's a mostly CPU limited game? What exactly suggests that from what we have?

I mean, games with a lot of NPC / simulation / AI calls etc are all CPU intensive. RTGI also hits both CPU and GPU. Rockstar hasn't exactly done any game that offers multiple modes at launch, GTA V took 2 generations before it got a 60 FPS mode on console. Going by their history, I don't expect anything more than one mode that maximizes the console hardware with PS5 Pro getting a resolution bump ala RDR2 on Pro and One X.

I've not seen anything to suggest this is some CPU heavy game that couldn't be done on a PS4 with severly reduced settings let alone a PS5 Pro

I'm not even sure how to respond here. Sure, they can keep stripping down things until it looks Shadow of Mordor on PS3 and yeah they can probably get it at 60fps on PS4, but what point would that service.

It's up to the developer and going by R*'s track record in the last decade, they've preferred fidelity over performance.

 

[TGO]

Didn't DF learn from last time

News - Rumor - Hype - 'Rockstar is confident' GTA VI will run at 60FPS on the PS5

www.neogaf.com

They got all salty about being called out on that.
If Rock* were confident about the PS5 it's pretty obvious PS5 Pro will do it too.

 

[adamsapple]

Didn't DF learn from last time

News - Rumor - Hype - 'Rockstar is confident' GTA VI will run at 60FPS on the PS5

www.neogaf.com

They got all salty about being called out on that.
If Rock* were confident about the PS5 it's pretty obvious PS5 Pro will do it too.

He deleted the reply tho.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I won't put much stock into what DF says, the only ones who knows about gta6 performance are the devs. DF, will knowledgeable, have no way of knowing how gta6 is going to perform.

As a proof, I present you this gem from before ps5's launch wherein they were saying how Spiderman 2018 on ps5 is unlikely to have 60fps, and how 60fps is going to be a dream for next gen consoles.

 

[Anchovie123]

Such BS, they have literally 0 clue what its going to run at. All guessed based off a trailer that will be 2 years old by the time the game releases.

DF should be held to serious scrutiny if this turns out to not be true, as they are painting a very negative image here based on pure speculation.

 

[bitbydeath]

If GTA 6 can't even run 60fps @ native 1080p upscaled on Pro.. That's absolutely fucked!

The 4090 will be in trouble then.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the base PS5 has a 60FPS mode.

 

[Bojanglez]

"Experts"

Let's just wait and see the actual game, these guys are not neutral and probably feel a bit put out that CNET got to go and see the product before them.

 

[Fess]

they could, but replacing RT GI especially wouldn't be that easy. they would have had this planned from the start, and Rockstar doesn't strike me as a dev team that cares about 60fps... hell, they clearly don't care about playability in general when we look at how awful the input latency in RDR2 was.

so yes, they could... but it's rockstar, and I just doubt they will

Nothing in game development is easy, I’m just highlighting that there is no technological miracle needed, I don’t like that line of thought. A framerate target is always a developer choice and reaching it is always about being willing to sacrifice things, doesn’t matter if it’s GTA6, Astro Bot, Returnal, Gran Turismo 7 or Ice Climbers.
And they’re supposedly releasing this thing on Series S, so they should have some experience of doing optimization and scaling of assets to increase framerates by now.

 

[lh032]

Nonsense.so it run worse on base Xbox and PlayStation ?

 

[diffusionx]

>experts

 

[8BiTw0LF]

Remember when DF said that PS5 would be slaughtered by Series X? And how their prophecy crumbled to pieces a half year ago?

DF take a seat, please

 

[ProtoByte]

I do think that if GTA6 was going to be 60 FPS on PS5 Pro, Sony would have lead with that. Either it won't be or they're not sure.

Huh? There hasn't been a spec of new GTA6 information for 9 months. Rockstar doesn't want or need anyone else to disseminate info about their game, certainly not for a presentation like this.

 

[bundylove]

Yes

 

[Vyse]

Boo!

 

[FeralEcho]

WAT?!?

so what is the point of PS5 Pro really?

Well when you zoom in 5x on the tv you can kinda see some sharper textures.

That or be like Cerny and this guy here and just stand 5 inches away from your 80 inch tv to spot the 700$ worth differences cuz that's how big boys play,sitting away from your tv is for pussies.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Huh? There hasn't been a spec of new GTA6 information for 9 months. Rockstar doesn't want or need anyone else to disseminate info about their game, certainly not for a presentation like this.

There are rumors that Sony has a marketing deal with T2 for GTA6. If that's true, they're going to market the shit out of it for the PS5 Pro (their high margin product).

They already released a trailer, not sure that confirming this would be 60 fps is a step further than that.

What is MOST likely is that either they don't know yet or it's not.

 

[mansoor1980]

DF must be pissed at not receiving the pro at the reveal
in any case it is upto rockstar games what fps gta6 runs at

 

[Represent.]

It better not be fucking 60fps. An absolute waste of resources when they should be pushing other things in the game rather than framerate, which would require everything else to be dumbed down.

It wont be, R* aint dumb. They will tell you to buy the PC version if you want 60fps.

 

[Zathalus]

If the base PS5 is stuck at 30fps for CPU reasons, then the Pro will be stuck at 30fps as well. Will the base PS5 be stuck at 30fps? I have no idea, but Rockstar do like pushing technological boundaries.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If the base PS5 is stuck at 30fps for CPU reasons, then the Pro will be stuck at 30fps as well. Will the base PS5 be stuck at 30fps? I have no idea, but Rockstar do like pushing technological boundaries.

They also released a 60fps remaster of their most popular game in the series, so they know gamers want performance as well. I would not be surprised if they had perf/quality modes like most top games do now.

 

[kevboard]

Nothing in game development is easy, I’m just highlighting that there is no technological miracle needed, I don’t like that line of thought. A framerate target is always a developer choice and reaching it is always about being willing to sacrifice things, doesn’t matter if it’s GTA6, Astro Bot, Returnal, Gran Turismo 7 or Ice Climbers.
And they’re supposedly releasing this thing on Series S, so they should have some experience of doing optimization and scaling of assets to increase framerates by now.

the Series S could be indeed something that forces them to have a non-RT fallback for GI.
Which in return could open up the possibility of a 60fps mode on the other systems.

It's hard to tell tho if they'd bother even then. I really don't see Rockstar to be the kind of dev team that actually cares about adding a 60fps mode.

we'll see. It's hard to predict imo.
at this point it's hard to say if even with removing RT if they would free up enough CPU time to push it to 60fps

 

[Zathalus]

They also released a 60fps remaster of their most popular game in the series, so they know gamers want performance as well. I would not be surprised if they had perf/quality modes like most top games do now.

That was a remaster though, it’s easy to add 60fps onto a game that was designed for the previous generation. GTA VI has RT Global Illumination, massive crowd density, and some pretty nuts animation rigging, which are all things that tax the CPU heavily. But with the expectation of 60fps these days I could really see it going either way. I think it really depends on what specific vision Rockstar have and if they can fit what they want in a 60fps window.

 

[MMaRsu]

Bet they will be wrong

Haha I they are 100% right. Gta 6 wont run at 60fps

 

[twilo99]

Takes

 

[DeepEnigma]

That was a remaster though, it’s easy to add 60fps onto a game that was designed for the previous generation. GTA VI has RT Global Illumination, massive crowd density, and some pretty nuts animation rigging, which are all things that tax the CPU heavily. But with the expectation of 60fps these days I could really see it going either way. I think it really depends on what specific vision Rockstar have and if they can fit what they want in a 60fps window.

You're missing the point. We aren't talking about why it was possible, on the technical side, we know the why it was possible. We are talking of what they know gamers want, enough for them to do a 60fps version, and they hear the outcries for a 60fps RDR2.

A 60fps version of the game prior.to the one coming out. Don't be shocked if they push the envelope on both sides of the fidelity/performance coin.

 

[Codeblew]

Well when you zoom in 5x on the tv you can kinda see some sharper textures.

That or be like Cerny and this guy here and just stand 5 inches away from your 80 inch tv to spot the 700$ worth differences cuz that's how big boys play,sitting away from your tv is for pussies.

In what world is that an 80 inch TV? Is Cerny 10ft tall?

 

[Eimran]

WAT?!?

so what is the point of PS5 Pro really?

Your money

 

[Zathalus]

You're missing the point. We aren't talking about why it was possible, on the technical side, we know the why it was possible. We are talking of what they know gamers want, enough for them to do a 60fps version, and they hear the outcries for a 60fps RDR2.

A 60fps version of the game prior.to the one coming out. Don't be shocked if they push the envelope on both sides of the fidelity/performance coin.

Yes I know.

That was a remaster though, it’s easy to add 60fps onto a game that was designed for the previous generation. GTA VI has RT Global Illumination, massive crowd density, and some pretty nuts animation rigging, which are all things that tax the CPU heavily. But with the expectation of 60fps these days I could really see it going either way. I think it really depends on what specific vision Rockstar have and if they can fit what they want in a 60fps window.

 

[RaZoR No1]

Wouldnt the biggest bottleneck be the CPU and RAM size?
We will still only get a Zen 2 ( no 3D Cache etc.) and are still on 16 RAM for everything.

At least if they try to get 4k 60 FPS with native resolutions.

PSSR will probably fix it from 30 to 60 FPS

 

[tommib]

I won't put much stock into what DF says, the only ones who knows about gta6 performance are the devs. DF, will knowledgeable, have no way of knowing how gta6 is going to perform.

As a proof, I present you this gem from before ps5's launch wherein they were saying how Spiderman 2018 on ps5 is unlikely to have 60fps, and how 60fps is going to be a dream for next gen consoles.

Such clowns.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

The game does look super impressive and is probably the most demanding game on this gen so far. Assuming they keep the quality in the trailer for the whole game/map.

 

[Det]

Takes

Radeon™ RX 6700 Graphics Card
GPU Memory. AMD Infinity Cache Technology: 80 MB.

Intellectual dishonesty or ignorance?

 

[Soodanim]

Not running at 4k60 seems like quite a reasonable take. The CPU is a bottleneck and there will be upscaling to assist/compensate. I wouldn't have thought it will be native 4k60 either, save for perhaps an aggressive performance mode.

It will be interesting to revisit this thread on release.

 

[Esppiral]

Talk about taking things out of context, jesus...

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Looks like I have to buy some more pesticide

 

[Joramun]

"experts"

come on now

lol

 

[Zathalus]

Radeon™ RX 6700 Graphics Card
GPU Memory. AMD Infinity Cache Technology: 80 MB.

Intellectual dishonesty or ignorance?

Big difference between the two, the PS5 GPU was not cut down from the 6700, they both had identical compute units. The 6700 has had way less VRAM bandwidth, and finally the clock speeds were not vastly different between the two. The 7800XT by comparison has more compute units, higher memory bandwidth compared to the Pro (even excluding infinity cache), and a far larger clock speed difference.

Edit: No difference in compute units, I’m thinking of the 8800XT. But memory and clock speed differences are still valid.

 

[FeralEcho]

In what world is that an 80 inch TV? Is Cerny 10ft tall?

Just basing it on what the CNET guy said in the article the pics were posted. He said 80 inch tv.

Plus the tv stand is pretty low so I don't understand why you'd think it wouldn't be 80 inches? I have an 80 inch at home with the stand higher than that and I reach to the top of it just standing next to it. And Cerny is taller than the other guy soooo....I think it's 80 inch.

 

[Quantum253]

That was the only reason I would ever spend $800 on a mid gen refresh. I expect next-gen systems to be about the same price so I'll just wait till then.

Maybe you'll get a 60 performance mode option on 6 and the pro will give you a small bump in visuals

 

[Ozriel]

My word, what are people arguing about?!

Nearly everyone here expected GTA 6 to be 30fps on base PS5 and Series X. It’s been the general assumption since the first trailer released. Sony says the PS5 Pro was made to being fidelity level visuals to performance mode…basically boosting visuals in games that have 60fps modes. They specifically never said it was meant to enable 60fps modes in games that could only run at 30fps.

Why in the world is this a controversial assumption from DF when it’s perfectly in line with the general consensus about GTA 6 on PS5 and aligns with Cerny’s pitch for the PS5 Pro?

We’ll need to examine why DF brings out the angry insecurity in some here.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Seems like a logical guess from DF if there is only a 30fps mode on standard console.

I think they will be targeting a 60fps mode with drastically reduced npcs etc.

Ps5 pro could run that at higher resolutions if that is what you're after.

 

[hemo memo]

You don’t need experts to know that 4K/60 is out of the question with the Pro for GTAVI. How is that shocking news? Also funny seeing the reaction of putting DF either Sony haters or Microsoft haters when they say something different each group doesn’t agree with.