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[Akuji]

Unless Rockstar drops the ball on physics galore, which I doubt, it will be % be CPU limited

This ain’t RDR 2 with rabbits, deers and horse testicles. Pedestrians, traffic simulations to make a city feel alive will eat up a CPU.

It’s the same fucking CPU for the pro. That’s DF’s argument.

You could give traffic sim and alot more to the raytracing Chip with a small but efficient model.

Would mean absolutely no ray tracing on ps5 base and xbox series. But could work. Giving way more headroom for the cpu to Hit 60fps.

 

[Ozriel]

It won't be stuck at 30fps at all for CPU reasons. This whole topic could get moved to @akira__ thread from the other day about DF and bias.

The Pro has frame-gen in PSSR, which if not already, will be either a mandatory feature to use in all new games on Pro or a system wide feature by the release of GT6 meaning even if DF's intention to disparage the Pro, damage it sales and its technical merit with their subscribers that bought their cool aid (have OLED Tvs, main on Windows PCs with Steam using a high priced Nvidia card, and can't appreciate games unless they have a 60fps mode) their claim is false and they know that only too well, but would seemingly be following their usual script that lets them eat well.

I guess Mark Cerny must be in on this conspiracy then, since he made zero mention of this. All mention of PSSR focused on AI upscaling.

 

[Ozriel]

I don't follow DF enough to see what bias people are talking about, nor do I really give a shit because it's not significant to me. However, I don't understand why they're being given a hard time for saying what I imagine is more than likely to be true.

Based only on the trailer footage I cannot see GTAVI being a 60fps game on this generation of consoles. It just doesn't seem like it would be feasible on that CPU with everything seemingly to be happening. I'd love to be wrong though and a small part of me wonders if Rockstar could pull what would be a miracle and do it based purely on the fact that they got Red Dead Redemption 2 to run on a PS4 and Xbox One.

NXGamer also expects 30fps targets on the base consoles. We had a thread here about it and nobody gave them any flak.

Basically the exact same expectations DF expressed.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

GTA games tend to be very CPU heavy don't they, so I think a 60fps mode is possibly a stretch.

It's hard to say!

But as a rule of thumb I wouldn't expect it and you'll save yourself from the disappointment.

 

[PaintTinJr]

The base PS5 has access to frame-gen as well. So both the PS5 and Pro could do frame-gen up to 60fps. It won’t look or play particularly great, as frame generation from 30-60 has issue with IQ and latency, but it is possible. We also don’t really know if PSSR comes with its own version of frame generation or if they will simply leverage FSR frame generation on top of PSSR.

Personally I hope there is a stable 60fps non frame gen mode on consoles, as that is where I’ll be playing it first. But I wouldn’t be shocked if there wasn’t.

That's a lovely way to move the goalposts, and no PS5 doesn't have AI ML frame-gen via PSSR, so trying to say: base PS5 too, but it doesn't is completely disingenuous when the leak has already given them all they need to know about PSSR to know that AI ML frame-gen will be available as a system wide Pro feature by the time of GTA6.

It is amazing the lengths people seem to go to just to obfuscate things that are known when it suits their agenda.

Parity from consoles having PSSR frame-gen upto 60fps on every 30fps game the same as DLSS frame-gen on PC clearly makes those that have used that stick against console since they could very uncomfortable it would seem.

O Ozriel are you feeling uncomfortable?

 

[Ozriel]

Parity from consoles having PSSR frame-gen upto 60fps on every 30fps game the same as DLSS frame-gen on PC clearly makes those that have used that stick against console since they could very uncomfortable it would seem.

O Ozriel are you feeling uncomfortable?

Have you informed Mark Cerny about this?

Because the man certainly didn’t claim his PSSR was doubling framerates for CPU bound games

 

[baphomet]

you may get it if the pro version uses frame generation.

otherwise it's not likely

 

[Pedro Motta]

Bro, fucking Warhammer, a linear action game with no RT, runs at DRS 720p to 1080p.

What makes anyone think GTA VI will run at 1440p in Performance mode on current hardware.

Well, when I played RDR2 on PS4 I couldn't believe that hardware was capable of that.

 

[Eszti]

clcokbait they need engagament thats all. they know pretty damn well that most people prefer higher fps and lower res than the other way round. negative titles = a lot of clicks. fuck df.

 

[Zathalus]

That's a lovely way to move the goalposts, and no PS5 doesn't have AI ML frame-gen via PSSR, so trying to say: base PS5 too, but it doesn't is completely disingenuous when the leak has already given them all they need to know about PSSR to know that AI ML frame-gen will be available as a system wide Pro feature by the time of GTA6.

It is amazing the lengths people seem to go to just to obfuscate things that are known when it suits their agenda.

Parity from consoles having PSSR frame-gen upto 60fps on every 30fps game the same as DLSS frame-gen on PC clearly makes those that have used that stick against console since they could very uncomfortable it would seem.

O Ozriel are you feeling uncomfortable?

I never claimed PS5 has access to AI ML frame-gen via PSSR, I simply claimed it has access to frame-gen, which it does by using FSR3 frame generation. Two games already use it, Immortals of Aveum and Black Myth Wukong. It works quite well with Immortals of Aveum for the most part, as base framerate is generally above 50 so it looks visually like a game running at or close to 100fps.

And no, there is zero confirmation that PSSR has any form of frame generation at all. Feel free to post where it has been confirmed. Just for clarification, I'm not claiming it doesn't have its own form of frame generation, just that we have no idea as of yet. But even if it doesn't, the Pro can still use frame generation, PSSR combined with FSR frame generation should work as you can now combine DLSS with FSR frame generation.

 

[Ozriel]

clcokbait they need engagament thats all. they know pretty damn well that most people prefer higher fps and lower res than the other way round. negative titles = a lot of clicks. fuck df.

How is that ‘clickbait’ when the bit about GTA 6 was in a buried paragraph in an article, and isn’t in the article title?

Said article is linked in the OP. Perhaps read?

 

[vodka-bull]

Guess I can wait for the PC release of both, a 5090 and GTA VI

 

[Shane89]

Arrogant DF again. Bunch of clowns

 

[PaintTinJr]

Have you informed Mark Cerny about this?

Because the man certainly didn’t claim his PSSR was doubling framerates.

So now you want to discuss like an adult rather than act like a challenged creative with their tinfoil origami hat?

Ok, well the info about PSSR was already posted here on Gaf following the leaks and claims - unless we are now saying the leaks are false - that it provides frame-gen.

I mean, are you disputing that feature of PSSR? How else do you think GT7 will offer120fps on PSVR2 like Mark mentioned IIRC? I also think HeisenbergFX4 has made comments since the leak regarding his desire to buy a Pro for frame-rate reasons.

Anyway, the announcement was basically just to confirm the Pro and give a vague idea of what it could do as a backdrop to revealing an unpopular price increase. All the rest we'll get confirmed and explained in due course to us. But it is completely disingenuous to suggest DF aren't familiar with all the leaked info and intentionally forgetting that PSSR will be a direct competitor feature on the Pro to DLSS/XeSS.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I never claimed PS5 has access to AI ML frame-gen via PSSR, I simply claimed it has access to frame-gen, which it does by using FSR3 frame generation. Two games already use it, Immortals of Aveum and Black Myth Wukong. It works quite well with Immortals of Aveum for the most part, as base framerate is generally above 50 so it looks visually like a game running at or close to 100fps.

And no, there is zero confirmation that PSSR has any form of frame generation at all. Feel free to post where it has been confirmed. Just for clarification, I'm not claiming it doesn't have its own form of frame generation, just that we have no idea as of yet. But even if it doesn't, the Pro can still use frame generation, PSSR combined with FSR frame generation should work as you can now combine DLSS with FSR frame generation.

I understand your script to keep pushing the PlayStation(Pro) Frame-gen only via FSR to disparage the Pro angle and to leave the door open for developers not allowing a frame-gen mode on 30fps locked games.

But we even had a Sony(& Cerny IIRC) patent on here about PSSR or by another name that is an ML AI upscaler that uses spectral analysis to AI upscale via inference complex detailed areas and the patent does frame-gen too AFAIK unless my memory is completely misremembering.

 

[NEbeast]

.

 

[FireFly]

But we even had a Sony(& Cerny IIRC) patent on here about PSSR or by another name that is an ML AI upscaler that uses spectral analysis to AI upscale via inference complex detailed areas and the patent does frame-gen too AFAIK unless my memory is completely misremembering.

I searched "sony patent frame generation" on Google but couldn't find any Sony patents mentioning frame generation.

 

[MisterXDTV]

It's like listening to Tom Warren and Jez Corden at this point....

Pathetic MS fans

 

[Zathalus]

I understand your script to keep pushing the PlayStation(Pro) Frame-gen only via FSR to disparage the Pro angle and to leave the door open for developers not allowing a frame-gen mode on 30fps locked games.

But we even had a Sony(& Cerny IIRC) patent on here about PSSR or by another name that is an ML AI upscaler that uses spectral analysis to AI upscale via inference complex detailed areas and the patent does frame-gen too AFAIK unless my memory is completely misremembering.

My script? No need to run to stupid conspiracy theories when somebody disagrees with you. People have different opinions, shocker I know.

As for PSSR and frame generation I’m not really sure how much clearer I can be. We have no confirmation one way or the other if PSSR frame generation is a thing. It may very well have it, but it hasn’t been in any of the leaks nor was it mentioned in the reveal video. But it really does not matter, because FSR frame generation is really really good and stands very close to DLSS frame generation.

But aside from if PSSR has frame generation or not, it’s a really bad idea to use it with 30fps games, because despite it giving the illusion of a higher frame rate it actually adds latency. You can get away with it for 60fps or higher, but the added latency on a 30fps game feels terrible.

 

[SakkanartSilentJealousy]

What's the point to saying that though? Gameplay doesn't even shown up.

I can remember they said PS5 Pro is not gonna happen, but right now it's not powerful enough lol.

 

[Ozriel]

So now you want to discuss like an adult rather than act like a challenged creative with their tinfoil origami hat?

Ok, well the info about PSSR was already posted here on Gaf following the leaks and claims - unless we are now saying the leaks are false - that it provides frame-gen.

I mean, are you disputing that feature of PSSR? How else do you think GT7 will offer120fps on PSVR2 like Mark mentioned IIRC? I also think HeisenbergFX4 has made comments since the leak regarding his desire to buy a Pro for frame-rate reasons.

Anyway, the announcement was basically just to confirm the Pro and give a vague idea of what it could do as a backdrop to revealing an unpopular price increase. All the rest we'll get confirmed and explained in due course to us. But it is completely disingenuous to suggest DF aren't familiar with all the leaked info and intentionally forgetting that PSSR will be a direct competitor feature on the Pro to DLSS/XeSS.

Seriously find it amusing that we have hard specs and a tech reveal from Cerny and you’re still basing your claims on leaks?

I mean, are you disputing that feature of PSSR? How else do you think GT7 will offer120fps on PSVR2 like Mark mentioned IIRC? I also think HeisenbergFX4 has made comments since the leak regarding his desire to buy a Pro for frame-rate reasons.

Games that are GPU bound will have smoother performance on the PS5 Pro. That much is known.

 

[DavidGzz]

Isn't RDR2 still 30fps on consoles? I think that even if Rockstar could, they wouldn't just to get double dipping sales on PC, PS6, XbonerX, Switch 5, etc. for the next 17 years.

 

[MisterXDTV]

What's the point to saying that though? Gameplay doesn't even shown up.

I can remember they said PS5 Pro is not gonna happen, but right now it's not powerful enough lol.

They know nothing, but act like they do

 

[GymWolf]

Didn't the matrix demo run at 60 fps ? That was on the base ps5. I'm sure there will be a 60fps option.

No it run at an unstable framerate (30 to 50) and it's a tech demo not a complete game or even close to that.

The cars have a completely random damage system, you can't interact with the traffic like you do in a gta game and npcs are uber basic and not interactable.

I'm talking about the playable part, not the chase sequence that is completely scripted.

 

[NEbeast]

No it run at an unstable framerate (30 to 50) and it's a tech demo not a complete game or even close to that.

The cars have a completely random damage system, you can't interact with the traffic like you do in a gta game and npcs are uber basic and not interactable.

I'm talking about the playable part, not the chase sequence that is completely scripted.

Gotcha. I misremembered. Sony surely had GTA in mind when designing this thing. I'd be surprised if it didn't have a 60 fps mode.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

Considering most of us are playing in performance mode for that sweet 60FPS experience, it will run at 60fps, even on base PS5. The differences between PS5 and Pro have already been told by Mark Cerny. GTA VI will look and play great on performance mode on the Pro. PS5 Pro is a beast!

 

[Kerotan]

Would people like a 40fps VRR mode for GTA VI?

 

[GymWolf]

Gotcha. I misremembered. Sony surely had GTA in mind when designing this thing. I'd be surprised if it didn't have a 60 fps mode.

I think rockstar are gonna save the 60 frame mode for the double dippers on pc, i can't see a console with the same cpu as hobo ps5 to have a locked 60 frame mode, no matter how much upscaling they can do.

I think mh wilds MAYBE having a 60 frame mode is gonna be super important, that game is gonna be a megaton on release day.

 

[Ronin_7]

Imagine the game running at 60, Digital Foundry humiliation incoming.

 

[Mr Moose]

They don't know shit.

Both run at an unstable 30 FPS and RDR2 runs < 900p on Xbox One.

Also how do you know that footage was running on, or representative of, consoles?



Rockstar isn't miracle workers, it took them 2 generations beyond its original release to get GTA V to run at 60 fps on console hardware.

@Vick

Per DF, the first official trailer runs at dynamic 1440p, with some counts showing below 1440p, at 30fps.

Good luck getting a 1440p/60 mode on current consoles.

 

[Three]

I mean, games with a lot of NPC / simulation / AI calls etc are all CPU intensive. RTGI also hits both CPU and GPU. Rockstar hasn't exactly done any game that offers multiple modes at launch, GTA V took 2 generations before it got a 60 FPS mode on console. Going by their history, I don't expect anything more than one mode that maximizes the console hardware with PS5 Pro getting a resolution bump ala RDR2 on Pro and One X.



I'm not even sure how to respond here. Sure, they can keep stripping down things until it looks Shadow of Mordor on PS3 and yeah they can probably get it at 60fps on PS4, but what point would that service.

It's up to the developer and going by R*'s track record in the last decade, they've preferred fidelity over performance.

GTA 5 is already 60fps on PS5. I'm asking you where the extra "simulation or AI calls" are that you saw in GTAVI in comparison that won't allow it on the sequel on more powerful hardware and if you think it's just extra NPC crowd density why you think that can't be reduced for a 60fps mode like Spiderman. That's not to say it will but what makes you so confident in this conjecture?

 

[Bojji]

Would people like a 40fps VRR mode for GTA VI?

It's much better than 30 for sure. Maybe they will reach it.

 

[RoboFu]

Nah it will run at 60 fps using fake frames but it will only play at 30.

 

[Little Chicken]

People should know by now that the final version of GTAVI with all the bells and whistles will be released next-gen.

 

[Kerotan]

Nah it will run at 60 fps using fake frames but it will only play at 30.

Can you elaborate?

 

[RoboFu]

Can you elaborate?

Frame generation does not improve actual game response.

 

[Kerotan]

Frame generation does not improve actual game response.

How commonly do games us this?

 

[Schmendrick]

GTA 5 is already 60fps on PS5.

And how does this have any relevance for GTAVI, unless you are suggesting that Rockstar just decided to not advance their by now 11 year old world simulation any further?

This discussion is moot until someone gets a real hands on with the game, but such takes trying to argument based on 11, >> eleven<< , year old tech just baffle me.

 

[King Dazzar]

After playing RDR2 on X1X at native 4k and locked 30fps, personally I wouldn't be so quick to right off GTA VI being something that runs exceptionally well, for how it looks. 60fps may well be possible. We'll need to wait and see. And DF need to too. Stupid thing for them to say imo.

 

[RaySoft]

With frame generation from 30fps, for sure.

Using cut down 2019 cpu in 800 Euro console is just incredible. Looks like they blowed all their budged on those cool racing stripes.

There are reasons for keeping the same CPU core beside lowering cost and die space. Replacing the CPU with a newer core could cause all sorts of problems. Remember, they have to think compatibility first.

 

[deeptech]

"Experts say", this gotta be on purpose.

 

[Bojji]

There are reasons for keeping the same CPU core beside lowering cost and die space. Replacing the CPU with a newer core could cause all sorts of problems. Remember, they have to think compatibility first.

AMD already have Zen 4 apus, this is not any new tech. Sony are just cheap motherfuckers.

 

[RoboFu]

How commonly do games us this?

On console .. never up until now none had the ability.
On pc for almost 2 years now.

 

[MMaRsu]

GTA 5 is already 60fps on PS5. I'm asking you where the extra "simulation or AI calls" are that you saw in GTAVI in comparison that won't allow it on the sequel on more powerful hardware and if you think it's just extra NPC crowd density why you think that can't be reduced for a 60fps mode like Spiderman. That's not to say it will but what makes you so confident in this conjecture?

Gta V is a PS3 game my friend.

 

[MaKTaiL]

So now they are just making shit up based on feelings and emotions?

Sensational stuff.

It's always been that way actually.

 

[Three]

And how does this have any relevance for GTAVI, unless you are suggesting that Rockstar just decided to not advance their by now 11 year old world simulation any further?

This discussion is moot until someone gets a real hands on with the game, but such takes trying to argument based on 11, >> eleven<< , year old tech just baffle me.

You should know by now that some would argue GTA4 had more 'simulation' than GTA5 so it's not out of the question that the simulation might not have changed all that much between games but graphics significantly improved. The point is I've not seen anything in the reveals that show this increased CPU simulation. It may well exist but I've not seen it and even GTA6 devs were saying don't expect big differences between GTA5 and 6.

Gta V is a PS3 game my friend.

Yes and what spectacular difference in the game did you see in GTA6 that would limit FPS on PS5 Pro to 30fps specifically? That's the question being asked.

 

[Ebrietas]

And how exactly do they know the cpu requirements of an unreleased game? Did rockstar divulge that info to them? This is the definition of literally making up shit.

 

[owandeseis]

Nonsense it will run at 60,
Not a single game this gen is so CPU dependant that they couldn't patch it on PC or Console to run at 60.
DD2 is getting an update fairly soon to address the CPU issues.
Most games that have CPU issues have been eventually patched. It just takes time and optimisation.

This aint PC land where you just brute force it with a 7800X3D, one of the most disappointing things this gen has been getting a game like Outlaws, firing it up and having to use upscaling to hit 60 because of piss poor optimisation then a week or two later when your half way through they announce A MAJOR PATCH ADDRESSING CPU PERFORMANCE.

Think you are missunderstanding how CPU dependant games work, yes, games like Starfield or Dragons Dogma got 60 FPS patches post release, but these only affect the non CPU intensive parts of the game, Bethesda's game still runs at 30-40 FPS in big cities, with drops to 20s even when there's no action. Same goes for games like Baldurs Gate or Warhammer.

The problem is unlike with these games, GTA is CPU intensive in most places.

Even Cyberpunk drops under 60 FPS after like 10 patches in cities when you are driving or when there's some action, and that's after removing all the RT, and on a 2020 videogame that ran on PS4 and Xbox One (like shit but still)

No it run at an unstable framerate (30 to 50) and it's a tech demo not a complete game or even close to that.

The cars have a completely random damage system, you can't interact with the traffic like you do in a gta game and npcs are uber basic and not interactable.

I'm talking about the playable part, not the chase sequence that is completely scripted.

I'd say it did run at 30 FPS but with drops to 20s and even to 10s when you were driving and crashing with cars, to be fair, it also ran like shit even in decent PC CPU's, most ryzen 3 ones couldn't achieve 60 FPS, think only the 3d versions from the AMD 5000s could reach that.

I expect the same in GTA for PC, i don't see a 5600x running at stable 60 FPS, not even a 5800x tbh.

GTA 5 is already 60fps on PS5

PS3 game finally gets 60 FPS mode on PS5, noice

 

[Bojji]

You should know by now that some would argue GTA4 had more 'simulation' than GTA5 so it's not out of the question that the simulation might not have changed all that much between games but graphics significantly improved. The point is I've not seen anything in the reveals that show this increased CPU simulation. It may well exist but I've not seen it and even GTA6 devs were saying don't expect big differences between GTA5 and 6.

Yes and what spectacular difference in the game did you see in GTA6 that would limit FPS on PS5 Pro to 30fps specifically? That's the question being asked.

When it comes to CPU there is no difference between PS5 and Pro. They skipped the whole gen with GTA, now they are building it around that 2019 CPU and use CPU heavy RT effects as well.

PS3 level fidelity - runs 60FPS no problem on PS5
PS5 level fidelity - low chance of it running in 60fps on that CPU while still looking like the trailer

 

[Moses85]