Would they all have the same properties? I know that makes them redundant but that's the only way I can see it work by letting them choose which one they want. Otherwise, one will inherently be better and it's what everyone will choose anyway (DMR before the nerf).
I always felt, if they wanted 3 separate but redundant somewhat human/covenant/forerunner weapon sandboxes, the best way to use the weapons would have been like Elite Slayer or Forerunner Slayer. All the weapons and power weapons represent the different factions. So normal slayer was BR/DMR/AR starts and grenades. Elite/Covy slayer is Carbine/Storm Rifle and plasma, FR Slayer would be Light rifle/suppressor and pulse grenades etc.
Honestly, I think they should drop the BR and the DMR and Light Rifle and basically every other recycled starting weapon they could use and just create a new utility weapon from scratch, and base the rest of the sandbox around that one starting weapon (i.e. none of the other weapons fill that same role). OR, just keep one of them and ditch all the rest, and ignore all the DMR/BR/LR fans that complain. I don't see a reason to keep adding more and more guns while still keeping the ones that already fulfill the same purpose because nostalgia.
I agree completely. It's totally unnecessary to have all these redundant weapons. The Halo weapon sandbox really needs some sort of refinement for 5.
Another point: I wonder what's not ready about the ports that 343 needed to bring OG Xboxes and Halo 2 discs instead of just using MCC. We're getting pretty close to launch.
Oh, I mean they liked the posibility of loadouts, The do this interactive button to be safe from danger, ordinance themed powerups, weapon waypoints, adding edges for "skill jumps",Halo 4 gametypes and how 343i said those changes were made to be competitive and increase their skills like it was something out of this world.
Dont get me wrong, I believe H2A is a solid game for a remake too but the ideas they planted makes me concerned about future titles, just that.
It does seem odd that it's being treated like a new thing. I guess when compared to what we've had recently though the fact that it is being made a priority is something to be excited about.
Hopefully they handle all this well though. Most of the changes they've made to 4 since launch have been good so they've obviously learned a lot. The waypoints for example only seem to show up if the weapon is in your view and within a certain range so it's a minor thing for new players that I can see as legitimately helpful.
It'll be nice to get more info though so we can actually get an understanding of the way things will work instead of a lot of speculating.
Back in your day you didn't play against former halo pros. 4 kills is way more than most people got. We probably would've won the damn xbox one but the guys before us got 6
I agree for the most part, especially on sandbox bloat, but I'm saying IF you assume those weapons are in the game, having an alternative starting weapon (that fills that same role) that you can't actually start with is a total waste of a weapon.
In theory that could be ideal from a tactical approach, because even though the starting weapons are similar they still have some unique drawbacks. Players have to, to use an old chestnut, adapt from the get go on how to handle encounters. In practice players often try to find the strongest weapon and run with it, the other options there before become unnecessary. There will still be players that try out the other weapons, but at a certain point it becomes evident that they are just doing a disservice to them. Halo 4 tried something similar with the inclusion of BR, DMR, LightRifle and Carbine. For BTB, the DMR won outright because of it being a mini sniper that was just good for any occasionit however also broke the flow of the matches. On modes with smaller maps there wasnt a clear winner, the BR and DMR both dominated well, but the LightRifle and Carbine for most part seems like forgotten weapons.
In theory that could be ideal from a tactical approach, because even though the starting weapons are similar they still have some unique drawbacks. Players have to, to use an old chestnut, adapt from the get go on how to handle encounters. In practice players often try to find the strongest weapon and run with it, the other options there before become unnecessary. There will still be players that try out the other weapons, but at a certain point it becomes evident that they are just doing a disservice to them. Halo 4 tried something similar with the inclusion of BR, DMR, LightRifle and Carbine. For BTB, the DMR won outright because of it being a mini sniper that was just good for any occasionit however also broke the flow of the matches. On modes with smaller maps there wasnt a clear winner, the BR and DMR both dominated well, but the LightRifle and Carbine for most part seems like a forgotten weapons.
I feel like part of the problem is that statistically, the weapons started getting way too different to account for. With Reach, on the broadest possible scale, the DMR and Needle Rifle might have been different but on the precision rifle front you still only had to remember one of two weapons - and their "tells" were extremely obvious. DMR had the yellow tracers, Nerfle had purple, Nerfle was more powerful and by extension had lasting projectiles embedded in targets to "warn" teammates. On top of that, generally speaking, you could also usually assume that Spartans would start with DMRs and Elites with Nerfles. With Halo 4, though, you have all these possible weapons from a variety of factions and manufacturers, and they started becoming so different and hard to keep track of in personal one-on-one fights that it was next to impossible to keep combat "balanced." On top of that, personal engagements also started (and ended) at an unprecedented range in Halo 4 compared to some of the closer mid-to-close-range engagements the past titles had.
In theory that could be ideal from a tactical approach, because even though the starting weapons are similar they still have some unique drawbacks. Players have to, to use an old chestnut, adapt from the get go on how to handle encounters. In practice players often try to find the strongest weapon and run with it, the other options there before become unnecessary. There will still be players that try out the other weapons, but at a certain point it becomes evident that they are just doing a disservice to them. Halo 4 tried something similar with the inclusion of BR, DMR, LightRifle and Carbine. For BTB, the DMR won outright because of it being a mini sniper that was just good for any occasionit however also broke the flow of the matches. On modes with smaller maps there wasnt a clear winner, the BR and DMR both dominated well, but the LightRifle and Carbine for most part seems like a forgotten weapons.
On the contrary, I can argue that with a small handful of starting weapons, it increases the amount players have to adapt to different encounters with different starting weapons out there.
But I'm not trying to argue if those weapons, all with the same role and more or less redundant should be in the game(s) like they currently are. That's another discussion. I'm saying that assuming they are, you serve the game no purpose by making some of them map pickups. People that pick up the carbine aren't going so to improve the weapons they are holding, they are doing so cause they specifically want to use that weapon knowing that they already have one that serves that same purpose. Yes, the carbine and Light Rifle aren't used as much in loadouts as the BR and DMR, but they would be used even less if they were just map pickups as they serve no distinct advantage or role differential than the weapon you're already carrying.
I mean really we are fortunate how great the dichotomy of frags and plasmas already are, it's difficult to add into that without stepping on the toes of the established grenades.
On the contrary, I can argue that with a small handful of starting weapons, it increases the amount players have to adapt to different encounters with different starting weapons out there.
But I'm not trying to argue if those weapons, all with the same role and more or less redundant should be in the game(s) like they currently are. That's another discussion. I'm saying that assuming they are, you serve the game no purpose by making some of them map pickups. People that pick up the carbine aren't going so to improve the weapons they are holding, they are doing so cause they specifically want to use that weapon knowing that they already have one that serves that same purpose. Yes, the carbine and Light Rifle aren't used as much in loadouts as the BR and DMR, but they would be used even less if they were just map pickups as they serve no distinct advantage or role differential than the weapon you're already carrying.
I think the hard part at this point is establishing a new pillar of grenade type that isn't just "Frag, but more" or "Plasma, but more."
If they go the "AA or Equipment as a grenade type" route again, it'd be fun to see a Hologram grenade. Throw it and when it lands, it generates a hologram that tries running back to you. In other words, use it to lure people over to you when you've got a sword, shotty, etc. You could even fool people into thinking you were running away, but you're really running them into you!
Personally, I think that the sandbox's saturation problem is more at the utility weapon level. Having Forerunner weapons is fine, but you can only offer so many utility weapon options before things start to get painfully redundant. Power weapons, on the other hand, offer more possibilities.
So what are everyone's thoughts on the idea of the bubble shield being brought back in the form of a grenade? The moment it hit the ground it would deploy the shield and stay there grounded for around 4-5 seconds and disappear.
To help balance it you would only be able to carry one of them at a time.
Question: Do you all want to see the pulse grenade return in Halo 5? If so, would you change it? The Halo 4 variant seems widely regarded as useless, and I'm wondering if it really has a place in the sandbox.
But I'd like to see grenades get a bit of an upgrade, too:
Time to go half Wahrer...too bad I can't draw worth crap, bear with me plz. OMG! NOT A LORE POST!
Here's a half idea:
You can hold a maximum of 4 grenades at once, any combination of a max of 2x Frag, 2x Plasma, 2x Spike, and 1x "Special".
Frag Grenade unchanged - aside from balance. Placed in 2s around the map.
Plasma Grenade unchanged - side from balance. Placed in 2s around the map.
"Spike" Grenade making a spiritual return from Halo 3, but I'd like it to receive a shift in utility. Placed in 2s around map.
Directional grenade explosions is a great idea, I just feel it wasn't implemented very well in Halo 3, and the effects of the grenade itself formed too much of an overlap with the plasmas and frags for it to be unique.
So to change it, I would like give it a reduced "cone" of damage (directly in the line of fire to be hit) for an increase in damage distance - more like a dense, straight line of spikes shooting directly away from the surface it is stuck to. But rather than the damage "cone" being short and wide, give it a more elongated (maybe 3-4x) but slimmer spread radius. This way, if you're good enough, you can stick one to a wall or a surface and use the greater, but more precise kill distance to get someone who is further around a corner, or a floor above you or below you.
Now, this should take higher skill to pull off, and it should also be "easy" to avoid than the Halo 3 version with a well-timed strafe (maybe shortly after an arming "beep"), depending on your reaction time, as the "cone" of damage would be much smaller than it was in Halo 3. The kicker is this should allow a direct headshot/high upper-torso netting you a one-hit kill, and give a full, or near, shield pop otherwise anywhere else on the body. Basically this is now an around-the-corner "marksman" grenade. Instead of Brute spikes, it could be a thicker Forerunner "beam pillar"... Ok, maybe I'm not describing it very well.
Here's a shitty mspaint thing I did to try to explain better:
I really think with AAs gone in Halo 5 (finally), Halo 3-style equipment should make a spiritual comeback. Enhanced field-effects should be timed pickups that can be predicted and controlled, but unlike a powerup like OS, they should be able to be carried for contextual and skill-based use in combat. I think this would add more depth to encounters, without introducing randomness as Armour Abilities do due to not being able to predict who has what. That said, they shouldn't need to be a completely new "Pillar" of your inventory, requiring a different button, separate HUD, etc. They should just work and act like a grenade does. Edit, forgot to complete sentence: For game modes that are super duper barebones and competitive, you could just remove the special grenades from the map and nothing else would need to be changed. Though these could be fun and add depth for other types of online play, as well as in campaign or the inevitable return of a Firefight-style mode (I wish).
I hate to say it, but first steal this idea from the latest cod trailer as a baseline, because it is good:
A Special Grenade would be more support-oriented and do not kill directly, and are still thrown with L and cycled with the same button as cycling to your other nades. These things would have similar throwing arcs like a frag or plasma, but maybe a slightly greater max range. Forerunner or hi-tech ONI design, with switchable modes where the active mode is visually obvious both on the HUD icon, and in hand without needing to read any kind of text - maybe a brief miniature in-hand animation of current selected mode's effect sphere after each mode switch kind of like Bioshock's plasmid hand animations. Hitting a surface or object freezes the grenade at that spot (but does not attach itself) and deploys effect sphere instantaneously. A well placed shot (say from a BR) on the grenade itself will destroy it and cease all effects immediately - the grenade itself would be larger in size than your typical frag, but not quite as big as a Power Drain in Halo 3.
You can also hold L to "cook" these in-hand to get them to deploy sooner in midair without them having to hit a surface first, sort of as a secondary effect falling in line with Promethean weapons dual fire modes. But the timing would be something that you'd need to practice to get distances and such just right. If the grenade is cooked first to deploy mid-air, the sphere of effect follows the grenade arc path until it hits a surface or object, where it'll then remain for a moment, and then dissipate soon after depending on how long it was "cooked", and how long the sphere was previously active.
These Special Grenades would be placed around the map, but in singles, not groups of 2 like the others, and there would likely need to be less of these available around the map, spawning at less frequency than the other grenade types. A team controlling these on spawn timers would be paramount.
Here are some modes I thought up:
Bubble/Shield:
Basically make it work like the one from the Starry Night trailer for Halo 3 if you toss it at your feet:
Bubble has the smallest sphere of effect, and the shortest active time (say 2-3 seconds). Room for only 1 or 2 very cramped Spartans, unlike Halo 3's. Can be shot to deplete quicker (single shot from anything more powerful than a sniper round and up would pop it, for example). You can "cook" it to open a bubble in mid air, potentially blocking an incoming rocket, or to protect another teammate, vehicle, or objective (in something like generator defense).
"Pulse/EMP": Slightly larger sphere of effect to Bubble, with the second shortest active time. It acts somewhat like the Pulse grenade in Halo 4, but begins with a primary inertial "pulse" before an EMP/shield drain sphere opens to be active for 3-5 seconds before closing with a second inertial pulse. The grenades's EMP sphere would work similar to how the power drain does in Halo 3, but with with a slower shield drain over time, and without the ability to kill. The inertial pulses don't have a large effect shields, only the EMP field does. The pulses are more oriented toward flushing people out, altering infantry or vehicular movement direction with greater impact than a frag (and no damage). Initial pulse opens and pushes players, vehicles, and objects quickly outward radial from the centre - another secondary pulse just as it depletes. On the Narrows sketch below, imagine someone launching out the man cannon, and you time the "cook" and throw just right so that it pulse opens right on them as they are in the air - knocking them off course to their death below. Another use could be to stop a warthog's momentum and launch it into the air. To use the EMP on infantry and vehicles, you need to cook it first so that the initial pulse happens before the target is within sphere of effect, otherwise they would simply be pushed away before being EMPed. The EMP field would work similar to using the power drain knocking Banshees right out of the sky, but requires it more precise timing and grenade arcing. Again, like all the other modes, if the grenade makes contact in mid air (cooked or not), it will float in place at that point, allowing you to occasionally strategically place an EMP sphere in locations without permanent surfaces, like in the sky.
Regen-Field/Medic: Second largest sphere of effect and active time of 5-7 seconds. Doesn't constantly regen shields like the Halo 3 version, only initiates a quicker recharge for anyone touching the field in the sphere - enemies included (small cooldown timer to prevent "strafing" in and out of the sphere's edge). The field CAN go through walls, floors, etc. Toss one of these toward your teammate as they are fighting another player if you are too far away (or the angles make you unable to help them out with team fire) and it could prove to turn the tide in their favour - but if you misthrow, it could also provide the enemy with a recharge, so you have to choose placement carefully, and communicate to your team where you are intending it to go and hopefully you can execute. "Cooking" the grenade before you throw causes it to open before it contacts a surface and could allow you to initiate a recharge of the shields of someone in mid air, or even in a flying vehicle. With enough precision, you could cook then toss the grenade over a team mate near death, and have it land on another team mate on the other side healing both without either of them having to stop what they're doing (for example, team mate A on a structure above you between a team mate B on the other side of the structure, with no visibility between you and mate B).
ProVis/Wallhack: Largest sphere of effect and the longest active time of 8-10 seconds. 1-3 times per second after deploying, it will send energy bursts outward in a spherical wave that shows anyone's active position (allies included) at the time passes over them, within the sphere's max radius, even if they are behind an opaque surface/geometry (sort of like how the Active Radar Pulse works in TitanFall). However, anyone can see/hear these wave bursts, and the revealed players, not just you. Gives off a final more massive "wave" upon depletion that VERY briefly reveals last active location of enemies within a sphere about double the size of initial. You can "cook" the grenade to have the effect sphere move along the grenade's arc before coming to rest, increasing the usefulness and effective radius while in mid air, but requiring more skill to correctly toss it where intend. Throwing one of these cross map into an enemy holdout would be ideal, and an intuitive way to get more tactical information for your team without simply walking around with the effect sphere attached to you as an unlimited wall hack virtuoso. You need to be aware enough to predict where the enemy might be because of the limited radius, otherwise it is a gamble to even use it, and it's one-use only, until your team is able to secure another one of the grenades, obviously.
Here's another very shitty sketch of the different modes' spheres, gonna have to use your imagination a bit because I couldn't find a better bubble shield pic for potential scale reference and I'm a terrible artist:
Sphere colour is arbitrary, and just chosen to provide a rough example. Animations and particle effects could be used to more easily tell the difference for people who have colour blindness. The size of the mode's effect sphere is directly related to how long it is active for - the smaller the sphere, the shorter the time. All modes' sphere animations deploy and expand outward from the centre of the grenade, and when depleted, contract back inward toward grenade before it fizzles out and disappears. You could have more or less than 4 modes, but these are the only ones I could think up... Maybe you could even have split the modes into two "tiers" that is enabled when you pick up a second grenade (instead of being able to hold 2), or the longer you hold one, the more modes become available to swap to... Just a thought, anyway.
I can't believe I wrote that much about grenades...
So I'm having trouble reaching lvl 50 in Halo 3 Lone Wolves. Keep having bad connection on almost every game yet preferences are set to good connection, but these servers are pretty horrible...
Anyway: I feel like the return of bubble or regen in any form would be a net negative to the competitive community, and having variable grenades seems like it'd be more cumbersome than it's worth. I like the pulse/emp idea, though.
Speaking more generally, unconventional grenades are an interesting concept. You'd have to minimize the variety and number available, since people need to have some idea of what they're going to be dealing with. Having a single "special" grenade slot is a good way to help with that. That said, I think there's some real potential for skilled players to be able to use them to get the edge.
The spike grenade alterations sound good, but I'd make it a little bit broader than what I'm seeing there. Making it narrower to encourage skilled placement is one thing, but that looks like it'd be nigh-impossible to hit anyone.
I'd also like to see grenades in general made less effective overall against vehicles, since that's what anti-vehicle weapons are supposed to be for.
I think the hard part at this point is establishing a new pillar of grenade type that isn't just "Frag, but more" or "Plasma, but more."
If they go the "AA or Equipment as a grenade type" route again, it'd be fun to see a Hologram grenade. Throw it and when it lands, it generates a hologram that tries running back to you. In other words, use it to lure people over to you when you've got a sword, shotty, etc. You could even fool people into thinking you were running away, but you're really running them into you!
I feel like drifting too far into an AA grenade might just create more of a "what can we do" vs a "what should we do" approach that I think has hurt Halo recently .
I love these ideas! It seems like a pretty nice full-circle way to integrate the sandbox in Halo 5 while still keeping potential for new concepts in the sandbox without adding in a ton of new mechanics. My most recent sandbox attempt is more geared towards a "Halo Arena Live" sort of thing, while yours would work a lot better for the franchise moving forward. I also took the liberty of Wahrer-ing your Spike Successor grenade with a little fluff and lore:
For the sake of adding something new to the table, I designed it as an Insurrectionist-created grenade type, with the according tech. I know it basically looks like a space keytar grenade at first, but the intent was something to the effect of PVC pipe painted black and covered in wiring, lightbulbs and electrical tape. The gauss-based projectile on such a small piece of hardware also justifies your tighter "Precision Grenade" cone concept. I might try screwing with some Special Grenade ideas in a bit.
I'm not even worried about what they do with Halo 5. I mean I'd like to it to be awesome but if it's not, no big deal, I can play the original Halo CE, 2, and 3 MP online forever with dedis, 1080p, and 60fps.
Zero interest in the H2A multiplayer. Doesn't bother me one bit, though. The only thing that worries me is the playlist situation. One hopper for each game isn't enough, and frankly I don't see many people enjoying the process of switching from game to game at the whim of democracy.
Ideally, they would give each game its own set of playlists along with a separate selection dedicated to all the games. Something like:
All Games
Halo: CE
Halo 2
Halo 3
Halo 4
And under each category the usual suspects; Slayer, FFA, Objective, SWAT, BTB, Snipers, etc. Sparse population may be the issue 343 is worried about, but we need more options than just "Halo x Team" if we want our fix in a certain game.
Dude nice wall. The special grenade especially sounds pretty awesome. Would there be any kinds of penalties while cooking the grenade such as not being able to shoot or a slight loss in movement?
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